You CANNOT technically play a MMORPG "solo" since the actions of other player-characters in the persistent online world will potentially have a "cause and effect" reaction on all other player-characters in that cyber-world, and THAT is the social aspect of MMORPGs which players enjoy (or, thanks to the many toxic personalities you find in games, may hate).
However, if you mean "solo combat" then THAT is just a matter of playstyle.
Some like strong and independent avatars who are capable of extreme PvE and PvP possibilities.
Others like weaker and dependent avatars who are required to "group" to do PvE and PvE.
Odd that nobody EVER points to players doing tradeskills and crafting and says --->
"Hey, Loser-loner! If ya wanna do that there "solo" crafting why doncha play a platform game at home! Ya freakin' loner-beeotch!"
Doctors say stupidity (of others) is the leading cause of solo play. Sometimes it's not worth the effort to group and sometimes you just don't have time.
*wonders if Goony and Allnamesleft are the same people? Cousins? Brothers? Brother and sister? Sister and brother? Father and son? Mother and son? Owner and pet?
i am a firm believer in mmorpg meaning interaction.
However some days you have 1 hour or so to play and getting a group can be more then 1 hour let alone hunting.
Take WoW i played on a server which was almost always filled up and as a priest took me a few shouts to get a group.
But as soon as group forms almost always someone has to go eat and afk 30 mins,then next guy needs a drink another 10 mins then someone needs toilet 10 mins and this is without even getting to the dungeon.
Sorry i picked WoW but its the worst example of delays i ever seen in a mmorpg lol.And this has even with guild members.
So yeah if i got a short time i want to do something and soloing is the only way .
Soloing is nice sometimes because you can go grab a drink whenever you want and not have to worry about your group taking off on you. I do mostly enjoy grouping, but solo is good sometimes too.
That having been said my most memorable accomplishments in MMORPG's have been with a group or raid. Nothing quite like when I got my Epic Beastlord weapons in EQ. That took a lot of help from some really nice people who spent an entire day, we're talking over 8 hours of their lives, helping me for no reason other than they wanted to help. I'll never forget the kindness of those people who helped me. That is what MMORPG's are about.
if im paying 15 a month i want access to a virtual world that doesnt limit me to either.
the problem with grouping is its not like kindergarten with teachers paring everyone up all day, if any game has the concievable notion of being lfg for a while, there better be a solo alternative.
let me use anarchy online, they implimented a lfg system, you put your name on and a note, problem is, NO ONE LOOKS AT IT, and if no one looks at it no one uses it.
the same can be said for many games, in wow they put in a stone for the same effect but people still spammed the chat for groups rather then use it.
the other problem is, if you can find a group its usually an oasis around the best leveling zone, the best leveling isnt always the most financially rewarding.
in AO you end up at a place called TOTW and theres no money drops, and if there are they get ninjad.
are all these things the devs fault? none of them are... But untill we can magically make players use the tools theyve been given...
I think what a lot of us more experienced gamers want is not really a solo game; rather, we want a more "sandbox" type game. What I mean by this is a world that is more interactive, and we are not confined to one linear sort of progression. The world should change and grow around you as your character grows. Pvp should be meaningful and reflect true player skill, rather than exploit game mechanics. Classes and levels are a barrier to this sort of gameplay, in my opinion. It forces you to think and act in one sort of way and limits the amount of player freedom. Part of the fun of a truly innovative mmorpg should be the ability to develop your character in any fashion you deem fun.
For instance, they "grind" should consist of a warrior travelling the world trying to master his combat arts, seeking out masters to teach him various techniques. His skill level should remain unseen to the players--should be something seen more in the way the character handles himself in combat. He should gradually grow more fluid and devastating as the player gains skill and technique.
Those seeking to learn the dark arts should spend their time similarly, gathering old knowledge and traveling to the most dangerous parts of the world, fighting demons and other extraplanar creatures to gather components and increase their powers. Maybe they must seek out ancient relics as well; relics that only one or two players in the game world may possess. This could lead to interesting pvp: wizards fighting each other to gain power.
Craftsmen would be in a similar boat, seeking out rare metals and ingredients to create their wares. Perhaps star metals and dragons blood to create that enchanted item etc.
Healing in its current form should be gotten rid of entirely. Instead, games should focus on spells and armor that reflect/ward/prevent damage but do not totally negate it. The farther away from the holy trinity we move the better. The only healing I feel is good in an mmo is player to another player, not to oneself...and that healing is slow and channeled and not really viable in a combat situation, requiring touch and a good amount of the healers stamina.
Mana should be dropped as well...players should tire no matter what their activity and the higher that certain activity, the quicker they should tire. Their restoration rate should depend on how tired/exhausted they are, discouraging players from going about helter skelter attacking everything and anything in their path. They should constantly be managing and monitoring their character's "tiredness" to prevent overtaxing (and perhaps possible death from exhaustion). This, combined with a harsh death penalty and loss of levels/classes and real social penalties would serve to curb the appetite of those that like to "grief" as it were, and add even more challenge to pvp.
Anyhow, off topic I know but I really can't wait for a developer to come along and totally revamp the current mmorpg situation. Everything else is so stale, and we now have the technology to create better worlds than is possible using poor pnp type rules that were never meant to actually simulate a true "sandbox" type mmo.
the most popular mmorpg WoW and you can solo to 60. While I think there should be much more emphasis on grouping, it means there is a large portion of people who do want solo content in a mmorpg.
Having a game that has an option to solo is great, when it becomes the path of least resistance to get max level is plain stupid. Otherwise you just remove the first two letters of MMORPG. Why bother playing a mmorpg to exclusively, or spend majority of your time solo, where is the fun in that? There must be a lot of anti-social lonely nerds out there.
Soloing has to be a viable option for exp/loot farming in every game.. at least in my eyes, or I won't play it. Due to college and other RL activities, I play irregular hours, and so do many other people. As a result I have a hard time getting groups together for very long, and raids (25-50+ people together for 6-8 hours) are totally out of the question.
As a result, if a game puts 100% reliance on grouping to level, and/or 100% reliance on raiding to equip yourself with decent gear, then there is no room in that game for people like me and others who have to solo.
Right because xp/loot farming is soo much fun. Going from level 1 to 60 by soloing in WoW for example is the fastest route (imho it should be the slowest in any mmog), does no-one find that removes any challenge whatsoever from any mmog? But hey we all know how fantastic the WoW community is, why wouldn't you want to group with such selfless, mature and caring people right?
Originally posted by Hashman Having a game that has an option to solo is great, when it becomes the path of least resistance to get max level is plain stupid. Otherwise you just remove the first two letters of MMORPG. Why bother playing a mmorpg to exclusively, or spend majority of your time solo, where is the fun in that? There must be a lot of anti-social lonely nerds out there.
Originally posted by Hashman Right because xp/loot farming is soo much fun. Going from level 1 to 60 by soloing in WoW for example is the fastest route (imho it should be the slowest in any mmog), does no-one find that removes any challenge whatsoever from any mmog? But hey we all know how fantastic the WoW community is, why wouldn't you want to group with such selfless, mature and caring people right?
The problem with making solo-play the "slowest in any mmog" is that you've more or less just removed any motivation for soloers to play those games. That might sound just fine to you, but it's definitely not optimal for the businesses that make/support these games. I think it's perfectly acceptable for there to be games built and targeted toward one specific style of play, be that grouping or solo activity; there's almost always room in any market for specialization. A superior game, however, will create some equilibrium between the two styles. If grouping is far more profitable than soloing, people who prefer to solo will be unsatisfied; if soloing is far more profitable than grouping, then people who prefer to group will be unsatisfied; when both styles are equally rewarding, then players are free to choose the playstyle they find to be more enjoyable. Everyone's happy.
As far as soloing removing challenge, I find that to be contradictory. You might not have to concern yourself with coordinating teamwork when you're the only person in your group, but you have no one else to cover your mistakes, either; as a result, you either become proficient with your skill set, you fight weaker creatures, or you die. The level of challenge is really set by the individual players, anyway, not the style they choose to follow. A powerful guild group could help a low level character finish a quest, and there'd be little challenge involved. Grouping isn't all about raid activity, nor is soloing all about farming loot and experience.
With regard to the "antisocial lonely nerds" remark, let's analyze that word by word:
Antisocial:
1. Shunning the society of others; not sociable. 2. Hostile to or disruptive of the established social order; marked by or engaging in behavior that violates accepted mores: gangs engaging in vandalism and other antisocial behavior. 3. Antagonistic toward or disrespectful of others; rude.
While point 1 might apply to some soloers, it's an overly-simplistic generalization. As has been stated multiple times in this thread and others, people who go out and hunt alone do not shun all social interaction, nor do they necessarily solo all the time; they belong to guilds, they trade with others, etc. The very act of referring to soloers simply as "antisocial lonely nerds," on the other hand is decidedly antagonistic and distrespectful toward others; rude. Congratulations, you're antisocial!
Lonely:
1a. Without companions; lone. 1b. Characterized by aloneness; solitary. 2. Unfrequented by people; desolate: a lonely crossroads. 3a. Dejected by the awareness of being alone. See Synonyms at alone. 3b. Producing such dejection: the loneliest night of the week.
While point 1 certainly applies to soloers while hunting, again, it does not necessarily apply to them during other aspects of the game. As for point 3, I find it difficult to believe that people who purposely choose to hunt alone are dejected by the awareness of doing so; if they were feeling unhappy about being alone, they'd choose to group instead. Unless, of course, you meant to say that they were lonely because no one wanted to spend time with them, in which case, please consult point 3 of the "antisocial" definition, as well as the definition of erroneous.
Finally, there's nerd.
Nerd:
1. A foolish, inept, or unattractive person. 2. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
The first point contains three adjectives, and a significant percentage of the online population (soloer, grouper, even your average forum user) is well-described by at least one of them, if not more. Point 2, however, seems to apply to anyone who doggedly holds onto a single concept and is unable to deal well with others. Coincidentally, a form of social ineptness (read: being antagonistic toward or disrespectful of others; rude) appeared earlier in the list. Draw your own conclusions.
While this post might be a bit melodramatic, inflammatory, and soon to be a bit preachy, it's not aimed at you specificially, and I've only written it because this whole "go play a single player game if you want to solo" mindset just smacks of intolerance, and intolerance irritates me to no end. Disagreeing with a point of view is healthy, and the right of every free-thinking individiual. Calling an entire group of people names simply because they disagree, or because they're not just like you, is an affliction. The world is a big place: seven continents, hundreds of countries, thousands upon thousands of cities, a whole variety of individuals in each of those cities, and many of those individuals have access to the internet. You will find people who possess different ideologies, different features, different world views; we all will. If you've already decided that there's only one right way to view any situation, especially one as ultimately insiginificant as "soloing and grouping in an mmog," then you are going to be the one who ends up lonely.
Originally posted by scaramoosh tbh why play a mmorpg if you want to solo? Meant to play with other people, might aswel be playing UT04 or something
massively multiplayer means many people in the same world. doesn't say anything about grouping with them. if it did, it would be called mmgorpg - massively multiplayer grouping online rpg
some people like to choose when they want to group. i don't always wnat to rely on or wait on other people to play my game. you also have the asshats like yourself who aren't worth grouping with or who don't know how to play.
i'd much rather solo than play with people like you.
Jenuviel - not quite sure why you posted all that (drugged up maybe?)and I certainly never told anyone who mostly solo's to go play a single player game. Maybe you need to read my comments in the other thread about solo play, before diving in feet first
Removing a players motivation to solo by making it harder is not the same as giving players who group more reward for defeating a tougher encounter.
Soloing removing challenge, think you misread that part..what I meant is if designers make content so easy that you may as well solo, in fact it becomes the quicker more profitable way to level then doesn't that defeat a large part of a mmog. What if in World of Warcraft you could loot a PvP corpse, that would certainly make solo more challenging? As for 'covering your mistakes'; what happens in most mmogs when you die is almost sweet FA -therefore why group in the first place. (Refer you to http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/387)
[quote]what I meant is if designers make content so easy that you may as well solo, in fact it becomes the quicker more profitable way to level then doesn't that defeat a large part of a mmog. [/quote]
Seems a bit of an over simplified description of game design. But I disgree that solo play is the quicker and more profitable way to play in this given scenario.
How you play it is up to you. If you like being in a team join a team, if you don't want to, don't. Hopefully the programmers can include challenging adventures for either style. Unless it's some tiny contentless mmo. In which case i totally agree.
Examples might be, instances that con only be entered solo, and instances that are impossibly hard to complete solo, or bosses that are almost impossible to defeat single handedly. I don't think all Instances should be one or the other, but it would nice to see a few of each in every world. I would enjoy an enviroment where the majority of scripted advancements were achieveable at comparable speeds solo.
For a lot of players teaming is fun. We chose player classes that compliment each other and the synchronicity found in team work is enjoyable. At other times we just want to continue our own exploration of these living breathing worlds.
Not all my enjoyment of playing an MMO derives from team play. I see no reason why one style of play must come at the expense of another.
In a team you may be able to steamroll your way through a mission, but your xps and loot, are divided so that you only gain a similar amount to a solo player doing it alone.
You should however gain more xp/minute or loot/minute as the greater power you wield as a group increases the speed at which you are able to complete objectives.
Allow me to use WOW as my example please.
In a raid group of 10 I can complete a dungeon in 1 hour. The loot and xp is divided 10 ways.
In a team of five the loot and the Xp is only divided by 5 but it takes 2 hours to complete.
Balance is achieved.
As a solo I would like to be able to complete the same mission, not divide the loot or xps at all, but accept that the mission may take me 10 hours to complete.
In Wow this is not especially an option, and instead solo gamers are relegated to the rather less enjoyable/rewarding area's of the game, such as crafting or grinding peanut enemies in a field somewhere. Worse than this quest rewards are not shared and so no one is intrested in teaming up if you are not on identical missions. Soloing is not only less rewarding it is a large and unavoidable segement of the game.
On the whole I like it when the Xp rewards are slightly weighted in favour of team play. It is after all an encouragement to further interact with people. But if it substantially invalidated the ability to solo, it would be detrimenal to the depth of the game. For my money, it is enough that my team can succeed in the same endeavours faster. Why would they need further reward for being able to easier complete an objective?
Teaming is it's own reward, as long as people are presented with the option of doing this, then they will.
In some games, instances are weighted to provide more challenge to a team. So that if you enter alone you fight mobs of two or three enemies but if you enter as a team of eight you fight mobs of 16-24. With complimentry powers, if the team finds it's dynamic it should be much easier/quicker to complete the instance than if played solo. If the team does not find it's dynamic, it should be harder.
Now lets try another example of City of Heroes.
In City of Heroes the same division of loot and xps occours (there is a very small bonus for grouping which perhaps compensates for the level of time it takes to arrange a team before adventuring). For all but a very few instances in COH it is perfectly feasable to solo them. The instance spawns a number of enemies dependant on the size of the group entering and only very rarely includes a boss of inordinate power.
Of the two games, I personally feel that COH fosters teamplay the most. It does not do this however at the expense of the Solo.
At times when I am feeling particulary aggressive in COH, I can earn XP's and advancement faster Solo than I can in any available teams (despite their slight grouping bonus). Should my "dreamteam" not be available I am still capable of going hell for leather after maximum lvl. I am not forced to join a pick up team of players with no dynamic and flounder around until my regular squad shows up, in order to have any hope of advancement at all.
There is no "one way" to play these games, the more varied the styles of play supported the more flexible and inclusive the worlds are. If no groups are online, and consequently my advancement grinds to an almost halt, the chances are I will exit the game and launch something else. Which of course I may start to enjoy playing and forget to relog into my MMO. The team, has lost a member. Grouping is harder for all the rest of the clan as they have less players online to choose from.
If soloing was a valid option however we could all be merrily and productively entertaining ourselves in the same game until enough of us arrived to engage in a group outing.
In my opinion a good game supports both, and any game that especially favors one or the other is missing a trick.
Whats wrong with people wanting to solo? If i had the ability to buy the single-player version of the MMO's i play, then i would buy that. But i cant, so i Solo. Simple as that
Most of time ived solo in wow becouse group in wow sucks mostly, even in guilds it sucks and only thing you do is group for instance battle grounds or outdoor raids and have to deal with stupid kids but thats wow:P
But maybe its fault communityiin wow.
For me wow have the most terrible community ive ever experience in a mmorpg, even lineage2 was better, that sucked to but you had decent pvp there, so i had some fun:P
Played lvl60 characters on 4 servers so i know abit how community wow is and its not only FAMOUS BARRENS CHAT THATS TERRIBLE:p
But 5million love it so most like it i gues:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
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Comments
You CANNOT technically play a MMORPG "solo" since the actions of other player-characters in the persistent online world will potentially have a "cause and effect" reaction on all other player-characters in that cyber-world, and THAT is the social aspect of MMORPGs which players enjoy (or, thanks to the many toxic personalities you find in games, may hate).
However, if you mean "solo combat" then THAT is just a matter of playstyle.
Some like strong and independent avatars who are capable of extreme PvE and PvP possibilities.
Others like weaker and dependent avatars who are required to "group" to do PvE and PvE.
Odd that nobody EVER points to players doing tradeskills and crafting and says --->
"Hey, Loser-loner! If ya wanna do that there "solo" crafting why doncha play a platform game at home! Ya freakin' loner-beeotch!"
~ Ancient Membership ~
*wonders if Goony and Allnamesleft are the same people? Cousins? Brothers? Brother and sister? Sister and brother? Father and son? Mother and son? Owner and pet?
i am a firm believer in mmorpg meaning interaction.
However some days you have 1 hour or so to play and getting a group can be more then 1 hour let alone hunting.
Take WoW i played on a server which was almost always filled up and as a priest took me a few shouts to get a group.
But as soon as group forms almost always someone has to go eat and afk 30 mins,then next guy needs a drink another 10 mins then someone needs toilet 10 mins and this is without even getting to the dungeon.
Sorry i picked WoW but its the worst example of delays i ever seen in a mmorpg lol.And this has even with guild members.
So yeah if i got a short time i want to do something and soloing is the only way .
Soloing is nice sometimes because you can go grab a drink whenever you want and not have to worry about your group taking off on you. I do mostly enjoy grouping, but solo is good sometimes too.
That having been said my most memorable accomplishments in MMORPG's have been with a group or raid. Nothing quite like when I got my Epic Beastlord weapons in EQ. That took a lot of help from some really nice people who spent an entire day, we're talking over 8 hours of their lives, helping me for no reason other than they wanted to help. I'll never forget the kindness of those people who helped me. That is what MMORPG's are about.
if im paying 15 a month i want access to a virtual world that doesnt limit me to either.
the problem with grouping is its not like kindergarten with teachers paring everyone up all day, if any game has the concievable notion of being lfg for a while, there better be a solo alternative.
let me use anarchy online, they implimented a lfg system, you put your name on and a note, problem is, NO ONE LOOKS AT IT, and if no one looks at it no one uses it.
the same can be said for many games, in wow they put in a stone for the same effect but people still spammed the chat for groups rather then use it.
the other problem is, if you can find a group its usually an oasis around the best leveling zone, the best leveling isnt always the most financially rewarding.
in AO you end up at a place called TOTW and theres no money drops, and if there are they get ninjad.
are all these things the devs fault? none of them are... But untill we can magically make players use the tools theyve been given...
i want solo content.
I think what a lot of us more experienced gamers want is not really a solo game; rather, we want a more "sandbox" type game. What I mean by this is a world that is more interactive, and we are not confined to one linear sort of progression. The world should change and grow around you as your character grows. Pvp should be meaningful and reflect true player skill, rather than exploit game mechanics. Classes and levels are a barrier to this sort of gameplay, in my opinion. It forces you to think and act in one sort of way and limits the amount of player freedom. Part of the fun of a truly innovative mmorpg should be the ability to develop your character in any fashion you deem fun.
For instance, they "grind" should consist of a warrior travelling the world trying to master his combat arts, seeking out masters to teach him various techniques. His skill level should remain unseen to the players--should be something seen more in the way the character handles himself in combat. He should gradually grow more fluid and devastating as the player gains skill and technique.
Those seeking to learn the dark arts should spend their time similarly, gathering old knowledge and traveling to the most dangerous parts of the world, fighting demons and other extraplanar creatures to gather components and increase their powers. Maybe they must seek out ancient relics as well; relics that only one or two players in the game world may possess. This could lead to interesting pvp: wizards fighting each other to gain power.
Craftsmen would be in a similar boat, seeking out rare metals and ingredients to create their wares. Perhaps star metals and dragons blood to create that enchanted item etc.
Healing in its current form should be gotten rid of entirely. Instead, games should focus on spells and armor that reflect/ward/prevent damage but do not totally negate it. The farther away from the holy trinity we move the better. The only healing I feel is good in an mmo is player to another player, not to oneself...and that healing is slow and channeled and not really viable in a combat situation, requiring touch and a good amount of the healers stamina.
Mana should be dropped as well...players should tire no matter what their activity and the higher that certain activity, the quicker they should tire. Their restoration rate should depend on how tired/exhausted they are, discouraging players from going about helter skelter attacking everything and anything in their path. They should constantly be managing and monitoring their character's "tiredness" to prevent overtaxing (and perhaps possible death from exhaustion). This, combined with a harsh death penalty and loss of levels/classes and real social penalties would serve to curb the appetite of those that like to "grief" as it were, and add even more challenge to pvp.
Anyhow, off topic I know but I really can't wait for a developer to come along and totally revamp the current mmorpg situation. Everything else is so stale, and we now have the technology to create better worlds than is possible using poor pnp type rules that were never meant to actually simulate a true "sandbox" type mmo.
the most popular mmorpg WoW and you can solo to 60.
While I think there should be much more emphasis on grouping, it means there is a large portion of people who do want solo content in a mmorpg.
Having a game that has an option to solo is great, when it becomes the path of least resistance to get max level is plain stupid. Otherwise you just remove the first two letters of MMORPG. Why bother playing a mmorpg to exclusively, or spend majority of your time solo, where is the fun in that? There must be a lot of anti-social lonely nerds out there.
Soloing has to be a viable option for exp/loot farming in every game.. at least in my eyes, or I won't play it. Due to college and other RL activities, I play irregular hours, and so do many other people. As a result I have a hard time getting groups together for very long, and raids (25-50+ people together for 6-8 hours) are totally out of the question.
As a result, if a game puts 100% reliance on grouping to level, and/or 100% reliance on raiding to equip yourself with decent gear, then there is no room in that game for people like me and others who have to solo.
Right because xp/loot farming is soo much fun. Going from level 1 to 60 by soloing in WoW for example is the fastest route (imho it should be the slowest in any mmog), does no-one find that removes any challenge whatsoever from any mmog? But hey we all know how fantastic the WoW community is, why wouldn't you want to group with such selfless, mature and caring people right?
The problem with making solo-play the "slowest in any mmog" is that you've more or less just removed any motivation for soloers to play those games. That might sound just fine to you, but it's definitely not optimal for the businesses that make/support these games. I think it's perfectly acceptable for there to be games built and targeted toward one specific style of play, be that grouping or solo activity; there's almost always room in any market for specialization. A superior game, however, will create some equilibrium between the two styles. If grouping is far more profitable than soloing, people who prefer to solo will be unsatisfied; if soloing is far more profitable than grouping, then people who prefer to group will be unsatisfied; when both styles are equally rewarding, then players are free to choose the playstyle they find to be more enjoyable. Everyone's happy.
As far as soloing removing challenge, I find that to be contradictory. You might not have to concern yourself with coordinating teamwork when you're the only person in your group, but you have no one else to cover your mistakes, either; as a result, you either become proficient with your skill set, you fight weaker creatures, or you die. The level of challenge is really set by the individual players, anyway, not the style they choose to follow. A powerful guild group could help a low level character finish a quest, and there'd be little challenge involved. Grouping isn't all about raid activity, nor is soloing all about farming loot and experience.
With regard to the "antisocial lonely nerds" remark, let's analyze that word by word:
Antisocial:
1. Shunning the society of others; not sociable.
2. Hostile to or disruptive of the established social order; marked by or engaging in behavior that violates accepted mores: gangs engaging in vandalism and other antisocial behavior.
3. Antagonistic toward or disrespectful of others; rude.
While point 1 might apply to some soloers, it's an overly-simplistic generalization. As has been stated multiple times in this thread and others, people who go out and hunt alone do not shun all social interaction, nor do they necessarily solo all the time; they belong to guilds, they trade with others, etc. The very act of referring to soloers simply as "antisocial lonely nerds," on the other hand is decidedly antagonistic and distrespectful toward others; rude. Congratulations, you're antisocial!
Lonely:
1a. Without companions; lone.
1b. Characterized by aloneness; solitary.
2. Unfrequented by people; desolate: a lonely crossroads.
3a. Dejected by the awareness of being alone. See Synonyms at alone.
3b. Producing such dejection: the loneliest night of the week.
While point 1 certainly applies to soloers while hunting, again, it does not necessarily apply to them during other aspects of the game. As for point 3, I find it difficult to believe that people who purposely choose to hunt alone are dejected by the awareness of doing so; if they were feeling unhappy about being alone, they'd choose to group instead. Unless, of course, you meant to say that they were lonely because no one wanted to spend time with them, in which case, please consult point 3 of the "antisocial" definition, as well as the definition of erroneous.
Finally, there's nerd.
Nerd:
1. A foolish, inept, or unattractive person.
2. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
The first point contains three adjectives, and a significant percentage of the online population (soloer, grouper, even your average forum user) is well-described by at least one of them, if not more. Point 2, however, seems to apply to anyone who doggedly holds onto a single concept and is unable to deal well with others. Coincidentally, a form of social ineptness (read: being antagonistic toward or disrespectful of others; rude) appeared earlier in the list. Draw your own conclusions.
While this post might be a bit melodramatic, inflammatory, and soon to be a bit preachy, it's not aimed at you specificially, and I've only written it because this whole "go play a single player game if you want to solo" mindset just smacks of intolerance, and intolerance irritates me to no end. Disagreeing with a point of view is healthy, and the right of every free-thinking individiual. Calling an entire group of people names simply because they disagree, or because they're not just like you, is an affliction. The world is a big place: seven continents, hundreds of countries, thousands upon thousands of cities, a whole variety of individuals in each of those cities, and many of those individuals have access to the internet. You will find people who possess different ideologies, different features, different world views; we all will. If you've already decided that there's only one right way to view any situation, especially one as ultimately insiginificant as "soloing and grouping in an mmog," then you are going to be the one who ends up lonely.
Yay!
I wholeheartedly agree.
Sometimes I want to be in a team when I play my game, sometimes I don't.
What a moody person I am.
massively multiplayer means many people in the same world. doesn't say anything about grouping with them. if it did, it would be called mmgorpg - massively multiplayer grouping online rpg
some people like to choose when they want to group. i don't always wnat to rely on or wait on other people to play my game. you also have the asshats like yourself who aren't worth grouping with or who don't know how to play.
i'd much rather solo than play with people like you.
Jenuviel - not quite sure why you posted all that (drugged up maybe?)and I certainly never told anyone who mostly solo's to go play a single player game. Maybe you need to read my comments in the other thread about solo play, before diving in feet first
Removing a players motivation to solo by making it harder is not the same as giving players who group more reward for defeating a tougher encounter.
Soloing removing challenge, think you misread that part..what I meant is if designers make content so easy that you may as well solo, in fact it becomes the quicker more profitable way to level then doesn't that defeat a large part of a mmog. What if in World of Warcraft you could loot a PvP corpse, that would certainly make solo more challenging? As for 'covering your mistakes'; what happens in most mmogs when you die is almost sweet FA -therefore why group in the first place. (Refer you to http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/387)
[quote]what I meant is if designers make content so easy that you may as well solo, in fact it becomes the quicker more profitable way to level then doesn't that defeat a large part of a mmog. [/quote]
Seems a bit of an over simplified description of game design. But I disgree that solo play is the quicker and more profitable way to play in this given scenario.
How you play it is up to you. If you like being in a team join a team, if you don't want to, don't. Hopefully the programmers can include challenging adventures for either style. Unless it's some tiny contentless mmo. In which case i totally agree.
Examples might be, instances that con only be entered solo, and instances that are impossibly hard to complete solo, or bosses that are almost impossible to defeat single handedly. I don't think all Instances should be one or the other, but it would nice to see a few of each in every world. I would enjoy an enviroment where the majority of scripted advancements were achieveable at comparable speeds solo.
For a lot of players teaming is fun. We chose player classes that compliment each other and the synchronicity found in team work is enjoyable. At other times we just want to continue our own exploration of these living breathing worlds.
Not all my enjoyment of playing an MMO derives from team play. I see no reason why one style of play must come at the expense of another.
In a team you may be able to steamroll your way through a mission, but your xps and loot, are divided so that you only gain a similar amount to a solo player doing it alone.
You should however gain more xp/minute or loot/minute as the greater power you wield as a group increases the speed at which you are able to complete objectives.
Allow me to use WOW as my example please.
In a raid group of 10 I can complete a dungeon in 1 hour. The loot and xp is divided 10 ways.
In a team of five the loot and the Xp is only divided by 5 but it takes 2 hours to complete.
Balance is achieved.
As a solo I would like to be able to complete the same mission, not divide the loot or xps at all, but accept that the mission may take me 10 hours to complete.
In Wow this is not especially an option, and instead solo gamers are relegated to the rather less enjoyable/rewarding area's of the game, such as crafting or grinding peanut enemies in a field somewhere. Worse than this quest rewards are not shared and so no one is intrested in teaming up if you are not on identical missions. Soloing is not only less rewarding it is a large and unavoidable segement of the game.
On the whole I like it when the Xp rewards are slightly weighted in favour of team play. It is after all an encouragement to further interact with people. But if it substantially invalidated the ability to solo, it would be detrimenal to the depth of the game. For my money, it is enough that my team can succeed in the same endeavours faster. Why would they need further reward for being able to easier complete an objective?
Teaming is it's own reward, as long as people are presented with the option of doing this, then they will.
In some games, instances are weighted to provide more challenge to a team. So that if you enter alone you fight mobs of two or three enemies but if you enter as a team of eight you fight mobs of 16-24. With complimentry powers, if the team finds it's dynamic it should be much easier/quicker to complete the instance than if played solo. If the team does not find it's dynamic, it should be harder.
Now lets try another example of City of Heroes.
In City of Heroes the same division of loot and xps occours (there is a very small bonus for grouping which perhaps compensates for the level of time it takes to arrange a team before adventuring). For all but a very few instances in COH it is perfectly feasable to solo them. The instance spawns a number of enemies dependant on the size of the group entering and only very rarely includes a boss of inordinate power.
Of the two games, I personally feel that COH fosters teamplay the most. It does not do this however at the expense of the Solo.
At times when I am feeling particulary aggressive in COH, I can earn XP's and advancement faster Solo than I can in any available teams (despite their slight grouping bonus). Should my "dreamteam" not be available I am still capable of going hell for leather after maximum lvl. I am not forced to join a pick up team of players with no dynamic and flounder around until my regular squad shows up, in order to have any hope of advancement at all.
There is no "one way" to play these games, the more varied the styles of play supported the more flexible and inclusive the worlds are. If no groups are online, and consequently my advancement grinds to an almost halt, the chances are I will exit the game and launch something else. Which of course I may start to enjoy playing and forget to relog into my MMO. The team, has lost a member. Grouping is harder for all the rest of the clan as they have less players online to choose from.
If soloing was a valid option however we could all be merrily and productively entertaining ourselves in the same game until enough of us arrived to engage in a group outing.
In my opinion a good game supports both, and any game that especially favors one or the other is missing a trick.
Whats wrong with people wanting to solo? If i had the ability to buy the single-player version of the MMO's i play, then i would buy that. But i cant, so i Solo. Simple as that
Most of time ived solo in wow becouse group in wow sucks mostly, even in guilds it sucks and only thing you do is group for instance battle grounds or outdoor raids and have to deal with stupid kids but thats wow:P
But maybe its fault communityiin wow.
For me wow have the most terrible community ive ever experience in a mmorpg, even lineage2 was better, that sucked to but you had decent pvp there, so i had some fun:P
Played lvl60 characters on 4 servers so i know abit how community wow is and its not only FAMOUS BARRENS CHAT THATS TERRIBLE:p
But 5million love it so most like it i gues:P
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