Well first this wasn't a review. It was a personal impression. He has "reviewed" the game only based on his personal feelings, he doesn't like it = done bad. Example: He didn't like the animation variety. Score 1. Even if you don't like them you can't denie that they are very skillfull done (Handmade). Only that fact would have given quite alot of point by a true reviewer. Should be called "The impressions of WoW from veteran MMORPG player".
Secondly he has played UO. Only by reading that you will know that he will never like a "modern" mmo. It's a well known fact that Ultima fans still are looking for the UO in modern 3d. It's also his first mmo and that is also a well known fact. For most people their first mmo is this unbeatable behemoth that they review all their later experiences against.
He has some true impressions, but it's only impressions. This isn't a review.
Phoenixs I like your comment about UO I'm stuck there to... Give me skill based games now!! Well maybe I'm just growing old. When I was young...
How ever wow got me bored pretty fast about lvl 20 or so. I guess I don't like do grind fore a long long time to just get more of the same. But then I like GW a lot, fast leveling and then of to PvP :-)
Originally posted by admriker444 My credentials... 1. Ultima - played at launch for 3 years. 2. DAoC - Played on and off for 2 years 3. CoH played in beta through launch for 1 year. Still play on occasion 4. SWG - Played from beta 2 through everything until NGE hit, left soon after (2.5 yrs) 5. Matrix - played in beta 6. D&D - played the stress test 7. EQ2 - Played for about 2 months 8. AC2 - Tried a 14 day free trial twice 9. FF11 - Played for about 1 month 10. Horizons - played from about 6 months 11. Eve - Tried 14 day trial 12. Saga of Ryzom - Tried 14 day trial 13. WoW - Played at launch for about 3 months. Returned several times (3) for usually 1-2 months each time. Currently playing 55 paladin on shadow council As you can see Ive just about played most mmorpgs around so I have a large basis of comparison. My review..( based on 10 being highest and 1 lowest) 1. Graphics - While definitely simplistic, there is much attention to detail. However, one thing bothers me is there isnt much difference from low settings to maxed out ones. Sure I get to see footprints in sand but where are the better graphics ? Where are the shadows ? Where is the sparkling details one should see if they're able to crank everything to maximum ? Also the areas all look to similiar. You have 4 basic areas, swamps...snowy lands, burned out areas, and deserts and they all look the same. Too cartoonish for my taste and pixelated. Score - 4 2. Combat - From a balance perspective, the game shines. There are issues with shaman still but otherwise pretty fairly decent job. Each class has a defined role with some flexibility as to playstyle. Game is level-based though so its pretty easy to balance the classes unlike say in a skill-based one. Attacks are basic and simplistic. The attack or spell you use at lvl 6 will probably be the same one you use at lvl 60, only stronger. Score - 5 3. Crafting - If you've ever preferred playing a decent crafting game then WoW isnt for you. Most are pretty pointless and cost way too much time and gold to bother with. I worked on armorsmith till lvl 278. At 225 I trained for armorsmith (from blacksmith) and found out there were only two recipes I could buy. The rest were all drops. Now after spending a month grinding into the late night for mithril and iron, this was quite depressing. The recipes for decent stuff usually are found on AH but the prices are ridiculous. Finally, loot drops and quest rewards especially at the later stages are almost always better than anything crafted. I played a warlock to lvl 60 and went alchemy / herbology. The problem there is many times potions will drop. Or there are repeatable quests to get them. In Tanaris, one can farm water pouches from NPC and turn them in for crates of goods. Many times there will be mana potions or healing ones in there. Same thing in Ungoro Crater, repeatable quest which gets you nice potions. Also, since WoW servers allow multiple toons to be made on each one, players arent dependent on each other for goods. So even though potions are a consumable, most dont sell tons of them. Anyone can simply just create another toon and craft potions if they really want them. There arent any vendors you can use to sell your own goods. And since there isnt any housing, one cant set up a shop or mall either. The AH or spamming is pretty much the only way to sell stuff. No decay means tons of peeps will simply never ever need your goods. Also since WoW allows multiple toons per server peeps simply will take their lvl 60 toon and farm a low lvl instance for gear for the next toon they make. Many times I ran across a lvl 10 rogue who already had gear in his bank for every level. Again, lack of relying on others (a staple of most mmorpgs) is the glaring issue here. Score - 3 4. Community - What can I say to some up WoW's community...hmm. Well worst mmorpg community comes quickly to mind. I have never in any mmorpg seen such an awful foul-mouthed community of children ever. If they arent discussing their mating rituals or getting drunk, they're arguing about something ridiculous. I cant recall how many thousands of times Ive seen some poor fella ask a simple quest like where is something and bam major flame war breaks out. Just try selling some item and watch out because 50+ peeps will give their opinion on whether your price is fair. Most of the players in WoW seemingly are NOT mmorpg vets. They have little clue on how to act, conduct themselves, nor play their class properly. Many times Ive seen warriors with no shields trying to play the rogue. Or watched in horror as a warlock ran into the middle of a mob and dropped an AOE on them (then swore at priest cause he died). Its a really lucky day if you actually find a decent group to run all the way through an instance. Guilds are like nothing Ive ever seen in other mmorpgs. In other mmorpgs, joining a guild is an important step in playing the game. It usually involves a recommendation from another member. It might require joining them for an instance or group hunt to test out your skills. It could require tribute of goods or gold. Some even have websites that require filling out applications as well. In WoW its a completely different animal which is a reflection of the lack of maturity of the community. Peeps will invite players to join their guild without even talking to them first. Others will spam looking for others to sign their charter and arent required to join after (for some reason many just want to start a guild but dont care if anyone joins it ???) I've bounced around in several guilds. Some disbanded. Others were maybe 5 players playing 30 toons (all alts) so nobody was ever on. Most are full of selfish players that rarely group together to benefit each other. Some servers are designated as role playing. However very little RP goes on there. Again the maturity factor here really hurts. What WoW really needs is an Adults only server Score - 1 5. PvP - Two major glaring issues with PvP in my opinion. One, its way too fast. There really isnt much time to bother with strategy. Its just mash buttons and hope you win. After experiencing SWG where one might spend 30 minutes battling a bounty hunter, this WoW PvP leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Second, the Honor system doesnt work. I played on several PvP severs, they were all the same....GANKFEST. Many times I had to log off in disgust because of the ganking that would occur. Dont get me wrong, I have no problem getting attacked by an enemy if I quest or explore in neutral or enemy territory. However, when I continually getting slain by a lvl 60 rogue and Im only 12, well thats just stupid. The Honor system is supposed to penalize someone into NOT attacking such lower level players. My last night playing on a PvP server went like this....I was a lvl 14 paladin. I was in Westfall trying to quest. A swarm of horde were there doing some major griefing. They kept killing the quest giver I needed to turn in my quest for the pocketwatch and collecting oats. This horde literally just sat there and killed him anytime he spawned. Other horde players camped the graveyard and would gank anyone reviving. Or they would camp the griphon so we couldnt fly out. Many stood in the entrance to DM so no alliance could approach to get in. This went on for 5 days. Finally I gave up and moved on to a so-called Role-Playing server. Score - 1 6. Animations / emotes - Combat animations really are quite awful in WoW. I get really bored watching my paladin doing the same slash over and over and over and over and over again. Oh wait, he just did a different slash for a critical hit, neat. Oh here we go again, slash over and over and over bleh. Emotes, like the community are simplistic and uninspiring. After seeing the same naked elf dance in IF a few thousand times you get tired of them. Absolutely the worst Ive ever seen in a mmorpg. Score - 1 7. Game Economy - In short, a total mess. Because of the 5+ million players, gold farmers have set up shop in the game. Prices have skyrocketed since launch day. And because prices for items have gotten so high, many players are almost forced to buy gold from the very source of the problem (how ironic) Its quite common to see a blue item sword with average dps selling for 150g ouch. At launch even epics didnt go above 100g, now they sell for 2000g. When I came back after a several month break I was shocked at the number of tells I'd get from peeps offering to sell me gold or directing me to their company website. At least twice a day I get one offering this. I have never ever been solicited in any other mmorpg before. Score - 1 8. Sound - Basically non-existent. Besides the music you hear upon entering SW or the occasional grunt while swing your sword, its just silent. If you crank the volume you might notice your mail armor making a clinking sound while you walk. Otherwise, its obvious Blizzard cared very little for doing anything innovative here. Score - 1 9. Immersive Factor - There are some neat things here. You'll run across schoolchildren following a teacher around. You'll see and hear two kids chattering on about fishing. During the Holidays, Blizzard does a real nice job in adding festive things. In small towns like Goldshire you might hear a vendor announce they're leaving soon so stop by to check out their goods. Score - 7 10. Quests - The one thing WoW really shines in is the quests. They're immersive, well written and interesting. They also take away that awful feeling of "ah I need to grind". Yes some are repetitive like kill and bring back 10 buzzard wings. Most though tell a story and lead to many more fine quests. Blizzard did a fine job here. Score - 9 Total score 33, Rating - 3.3 / 10
I fully understand your feelings toward the game. Perhaps your review would be less harsh if you take extra effort in understanding the target audience of the game. WoW is not designed for the mature RPG sophisticate. It is based on an addictive gaming model that has proven to be comercially successful for Blizzard: small, attainable goals leading to progressively greater rewards, with a side of RPG. Diablo was a perfect example. The only people that have time and interest in playing these games are typically youths.
Community. I come from the perspective of a parent. I also play on Shadow Council because of the relatively mature playerbase (and I mean "relative"). I have two preteens who play the game under my supervision as a reward for good school performance. Based on the way players treat each other in this community, it would seem that many are not much older than my kids, or did not have a good upbringing. This immaturity has more to do with demographics than anything else: WoW is accessible to almost anyone. It is the responsibility of parents to control their childrens' environment and to ensure that their children treat others with respect.
Combat. There is not much brainwork required to understand the combat system: point and click or press numbers. The game will always have balancing issues as each class begs for more power, but over time things always seem to reach equilibrium. I find it to be a good learning tool for my children to understand the interaction of numbers, or class abilities.
Crafting. Crafting needs to be simple, attainable, and understandable for kids. While it could certainly use more refinement, my kids find it enjoyable, and that's all Blizzard really cares about - pleasing the youths.
Economy. If this game resembled anything like a real economy, you would not have kids playing it. I am thankful that it teaches kids the concept of resources and production. What else did you expect?
Sound. I like the music. It is thematically consistent and represents the world well. The sound effects are adequate, but the dialogue is often campy: "Arise, my champion!"
PvP. Agree with everything stated. Aside from controlled duels, there is not much intellect or strategy involved. The zerg-like mayhem is clearly for kids.
Immersive Factor. The game is rich in color, texture, and is filled with background activity. Again, I agree.
Quests. Probably the most mature, well-developed facet of the game. The quests are well-written and introduce deeper story lines that most players never see. This feature is the main reason I allow my children to play this game. It teaches them to read, and to understand directions.
I loved this review, the first one on the first page. What I think needs to be done is exactly what was pointed out, adult servers. I noticed that you said you played a paladin. That means that you played alliance which is always more "kid" generated because of happy little gnomes and boring humans, not to mention every kid wants to be the new introduced dark elves with a different name! They say that horde wins a lot of the battlegrounds because the shamans are extremely twinked. The reality is that the people playing horde are usually older and more capable of playing their characters correctly. Horde also have the desire to show this in mean ways by bringing out the weaknesses in the game and piss off the children by killing their gryphon riders so that nobody can do anything. It's horrible but it gives us tons to laugh about especially when working in need of something to ease up the work environment.
I think that adult servers would be an excellent implementation and I'm going to post that in the blizzard forums. I know that they could do this simply by checking the age on a credit card. Another good idea would have people compete and win their way into moving to a more professional server. This would weed out all of the people that simply don't care to have any skill. You could even have servers that go above servers. Have everybody start in a beginners server and as they complete pvp challenges, mainly 1 on 1, move up to the next server after a progression of skill is handed to them. Then after getting to an intermediate server, you could compete for an advanced and then to a superior. You get the basic idea. Anybody interested in forwarding these ideas to Blizzard?
Although I disagreed with much of the OPs review, at least it's well articulated. Bravo! I'm not going to cover every point, but things that come to mind:
Graphics: You will love them or hate them. Low poly, few special effects. Fantastic art direction, fantastic engine performance (i.e., good framerates on any halfway decent rig even when a ton of stuff is going on). Overall the engine performance and art direction mean more to me that number of polies and special effects. For example I'd take WoW any day over EQ II. Only games I happen to prefer the graphics of would be DAoC and EVE. I'd give it a 7 overall.
Community: There are so many folks playing that it's easy to make freinds as you level. Ignore the bozoes, turn off general chat in certain key zones (barrens..ouch!), and you will be fine. I would say that WoW has only a slightly worse than average community, not the collection of 8 year old hellspwan that the OP seems to indicate. Most of my in game freinds are geezing like me or older (a good friend of mine introduced me to her graddaughter the other day in game, I was floored!). Overall I'd rate it a 4.
Crafting: He's right, it sucks bad. A complete and utter waste of time and gold. What in god's name were the devs thinking? Out of 300 or so recipes in any given craft, maybe one in ten is anything you will ever want to use yourself and maybe one in 50 or 100 will actually sell well. I'd still at least give it a 2 if only because it gives me a way to make fat heaps of cash by selling raw materials to those poor suckers trying to craft stuff.
Combat: some of the most fast paced and fun combat on the market. However, it varies a lot depending on the class you pick, and sometimes even how you have developed their talents. For example, I will certainly admit that combat as a Paladin is as boring as can be. Their big deal is that they can slowly wear down their opponents by outlasting them...not the most exciting form of combat you can imagine :-/ On the other end of the spectrum, I'd say the WoW mage is by far the most fun nuker I've played in one of these games. And I have played everything from an EQ 1 Wizard right though to a blaster in COH, and numerous analogues in other games (I like me some nukes). I'd give the combat an overall 8 (but lower for a few classes).
Quests: he's right their damn good comapred to most games. But more than anything to me it just shows these games have a ways to go yet. I'd rate them a 7 overall (most games would get a 5 or lower).
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I have to agree on the crafting part.. well semi agree. The stuff most of the crafts can make is pretty useful up untill the higher levels because in smithing the armor just can't compete with drops or quest rewards so whats the point. All in all I'd have to say of all the crafts engineering is the most usefull of all. the others just aren't useful at all.
My, and the OP's (I think) complaint about crafting isn't how useful the items are -- it's that there's ZERO customization. There's nothing that says visually "this is a unique X" (putting a text line in the description that says "made by Fred" doesn't cut it). There's nothing stat-wise that makes your Copper sword different from the other 6 trillion copper swords being made. That's a terrific failing, and it doesn't need to be that way. What if we put in a few enchantments that could be "woven" into a crafted item during the crafting process and that don't require pre-defined "recipes" -- aka, let the PLAYER mix and match and come up with a Copper Sword +1, or a Copper Sword +1 against Rabid Wolves, or whatever. Maybe change the ores to have a wider diversity of metals, and make items made from each ore have different specs (that's still only a minimal customization, but at least it would be SOMETHING).
You'd see a large change to the economy if there were actual, varied items being made instead of the same trillionth retread of the same items over and over again.
And I'd be back in WoW, despite the lowest-common-denominator community (not all players, but far, far, far too many), in a heartbeat if they actually put some customization into their crafting.
Or go the whole hog -- do what Horizons does, and let us build bridges, houses, etc, that are in the world (and conversely, each of those can be destroyed). Talk about changing the tactical requirements of situations -- can't get to a place? Get a bunch of crafters together and build a bridge over the chasm. THAT's putting dynamism into your world and your questing structure -- because the PLAYERS are actually involved in coming up with the solution. It also builds community by putting in mechanisms that let (but don't force) people to work together.
Despite i have cancelled let me say WoW is one of the best starter mmorpg.
Sure as a fellow vet i find it boring pretty fast but i think if i was new to mmorpg i would pick wow.
Why?because its simple,easy and not time consuming.
It comes at a price.As rightfully mentioned the trade skills are pretty poor and lack of content at higher levels is no good.
But it is streamlined,took good features from other mmorpg and looks nice(yeah i know the setting matters not but hey it tooks on old systems nicely).
Of course as a vet you be bored but think this game brought millions of new ppl to the genre that will spread out much like SWG did at a smaller scale.
If you recall SWG at launch ,while a minority were excellent players who kept roleplaying and fueling the community .Majority were new and they had zero idea what to do-rude,ninja looting etc.
This changed after a few months as people learnt to behave.I think WoW community will become this just a bit slower as it attracted a younger age group then SWG did.
Actually, a slight update on the crafting. The level at which you can use a lot of the items that you make seems to have been lowered since I last levelled up a crafter (just noticed it on recently). This actually puts a lot of crafted gear right in line with green drops of around the same level (when I played crafted items generall had inferior stats). Not earth shattering, but more usefull than it was when i levelled up my crafters near launch.
I also agree that some level of customization would help the system a lot. For example, if you want to customize your character's stats, you pretty much have to use the AH because ther just isn't enough variety in the recipes. For a specialized character build there might be one or two crafted items that you can use at any given level, but most of it will have to be AH goods.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I cant believe how can people say "i agree with OP" when He is LYING in his pseudo "review". Some replies pointed out his lies, so please people, use your brain.
Well where to start with this one. I have only read the original post and not the replies, but that is enough fuel for the fire.
Credentials
You have played a lot of games, but really, some of the trials cannot count as experience. A good example would be Eve, where playng the 14 day trial is really nothing more than a teaser, you cannot get anywhere near understanding the whole game in 14 days and this goes for most of the others as well. You also mention a lot of Beta time, but again, games change a hell of a lot from beta to a few months into full release so do you really know the game?
On WOW
Graphics
Have you really take a look at the different settings on this game, there is a massive difference between lowest and highest settings, although some are very subtle. There are simple things like scenery distance and even more subtle differences like being able to see through the water to what is underneath on higher settings where you can't on lower settings. I think that it is a major credit to the game that those with lower powered machines do not have to suffer pixilated hell, but those with a bit more power can enjoy the finer things. I will agree that the graphics are a bit cartoony, but again it adds to the whole fantasy feel of the game and watching some of the subtle animation differences like an elf flipping to his feet kung fu style when he gets knocked over compared to a clumsy human having to lift himself is genius.
Combat
You are right to an extent that each class has usual defined roles, but these can vary depending on the talents that each class chooses as they level (talents are additions to your skills like speeding up an attack or spell etc.). A rogue, for example, can either be a specialised assasin or a combat tank second only to warriors, depending on the talents that he employs. Also to say that attacks are "Basic & Simplistic" really does them an injustice when you look at the fact that there are certain attacks that can only be employed after the enemy has completed a certain attack for example. There are a lot of subtleties to combat in WoW that are probably not appreciated at the early levels when you are grinding or running quests to level, but you become much more aware of as you get to the higher levels and take on more skilled opponents, both PvP & PvE wise.
Crafting
I'm not much of a crafter myself (although i am currently working on Leatherworking), but i find the system suits the casual and hard core crafters. Casual crafters can make quite a bit of money from watching the market and filling in the gaps, especially at the lower and mid levels. Hard core crafters can make a ton of money from supplying those people who are not really into crafting with epic armour sets, high level enchantments or much sought after weapons. Yes, getting to the higher levels and getting the best recipies is costly and time consuming, but you decide how high you want to go and stick with that and if you want to go all the way you pay the price.
As for your comment about not having to rely on other people, you are way out on that one. My L60 Rogue has to rely on the Auction Houses (and the crafters selling on there) for essential combat items like sharpening stones and swiftthistle for his energy reviving teas. Yes there are a few Hardcore 24/7 players around that have a few high level characters that supply each other, but for the ordinary player like myself, the crafting system and Auction houses are a major life line.
Community
I really don't know what game you were playing, but your experience has been the complete opposite from mine. I have found the community in WoW on all four servers i play on to be mature and very helpful (with a sprinkle of the odd idiot, but that is what 'ignore' is there for).
Guilds do vary very heavily within the game, some are just loose assortments of characters that play and chat, but do little else. On the other side, on my main characters, the guild i joined i could only get into after lengthy discussions with the leaders and after reading the code of conduct on their website. The guild is very well organised with a calander on their site laying out raid times and forums asking for and giving advice to their players.
As far as general chat is concerned throughout the game, channels are split into 'General chat', 'Trade', 'Local Defense' and 'Looking for group'. Recent changes have meant that in major cities the trade and looking for group channels are linked to each other within the sister cities. There are also private person to person chats, raid channels when you are in a raid situation and also party chat when joined with others. On the whole, chat is very clean (there is a language filter for the bad mouthers) and generally very helpful.
There are some idiots in the game (well a game with 5 million subscribers is gonna get some), but these can be dealt with by placing them on 'ignore' withing your personal options and/or reporting them to a GM for whatever they may be doing, which i have always found is dealt with swiftly. Another way of dealing with idiots is reporting them to their guild leaders if they are part of one as most established guilds or those looking to build a good rep in-game have a code of conduct and will deal with such people accordingly.
PvP
There are three types of servers on WoW, 'PvP (Person v Person)', 'PvE (Person v Environment)' & 'RP (Role Playing)'. I personally play on PvE servers as i am not a big PvP fan, but will indulge when the mood takes me. On PvP servers you can be attacked by a member of the opposite faction at any time, which makes the 'Gank fests' you mention a daily thing as that's what the PvP community like. On the PvE servers, you can only be attacked by a member of the opposing faction IF you turn your PvP flag on, or attack someone that already has their PvP flag on. If you do attack a person with their PvP flag on, then this automatically turns yours on leaving you open to attack by the opposing clan, BUT if you do die and are worried about getting 'ganked' you only have to wait a few minutes and your flag will automatically reset again making you safe from attack.
As far as the speed of battles is concerned, who the hell wants to spend 30 minutes fighting a character for goodness sake. The speed of combat really depends on the characters involved and the number involved with a warrior vs warrior fight not taking too long due to the knock seven bells out of each other type combat, but try watching a Paladin vs Druid for example, where healing and protection spells are involved, it is a whole other story. The real insult you threw in there was "just mash buttons and hope you win." I am proud of the fact that i managed to beat a Druid and a warrior, both two levels above me in a fight due to my better tactics, because believe me if it was just a case of mash and hope i would have been flat out in seconds.
Animations / Emotes
OK, what do you wants here? Every MMO and game for that matter will get repetative over time, as there are only so many animations that can be included, but again i think that WoW does a great job in variation. For a start, not only does every class have its own little differences, but every race adds subtle changes as well and then there are the different animations for different spells/combat moves etc...
As far as emotes are concerned, you cannot be serious, there are over 180 emotes in WoW with about half of those animated. OK, a lot of people dance and even those differ from race to race a little, but there is plenty more to play around with if you take the time to look into them.
Economy
The game economy works fine! There are a few farmers in game (tell me an MMO that doesn't have them), but they are being dealt with by in game GM's and Blizzard. Making gold is an easy affair if you are willing to put the work in (i have had L10 characters with several gold from skinning and selling the leather through the Auction Houses). At L60 i can easily make 30-40 gold in a session with minimal work from item drops being sold through the Auction Houses.
Money needs also vary as you rise through the levels, yes there are some very expensive items for high level characters but there are also very cheap items for lower charcters. At the end of the day people can only sell something for what someone is willing to pay for it and if you take the time and watch the Auction houses, you will notice that most of these overpriced items are there Day after Day on the AH because they do not sell.
Sound
Again, there is only so much that you can squeeze in this area, but there is much more than you have commented on. For a start, a lot of the animals that you attack have different sounds (A birds screech sounds very different from a tigers roar) as well as the subtle differences in combat when you make a strike (and sounds differ from something like a normal strike or a throut being cut) or your blow is defelcted or you are knocked over etc..
I cannot add anything to your last two sections as you seem to have captured the flavour nicely. Overall i think that you have missed out on a lot of what WoW has to offer either through playing on the wrong types of servers for your playing style or through sheer negative attitude, but i would beg the question that if it is as bad as you make out in this review, why do you keep coming back??
The game will not be for everyone, no game ever is, but you are way out with your comments.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I think the review from the lead post is extremely accurate in just about everything. But I think he was too kind as I would of put a big fat zero instead of a 1 in some of them.
I ran a Druid 'til level 60 before I left in disgust. Once I got to level 58 I had no missions to do other then dungeons, dungeons, dugeons. It's all you get towards the end. I like to solo at times and had 'til the end but no way can you do this in a dungeon. Even with a small group you couldn't complete them at times.
The economy stinks as everything is mad expensive. The majority of the quests don't pay anything at all and for the very few that do you can expect a few measely pcs of silver. The quests that pay gold which are rare don't pay more then 3-5 pcs.
In a survey I saw and then did since I had the guide, in a section for high level players there were 97 quests with only 6 paying anything and only 3 paying 2 gold and a few silver. This being a section on the map where the highest leveled players go you'd have to think these would be the quests that paid the most and they didn't.
You have to rely on other ways to get cash. While it's true you can obtain loot the large portion of times the loot you get is 'bound" so you can't sell or trade it for cash.
WoW is a gankers paradise as has been already stated. Up in Booty Bay it was extremely hard to play because of all the ganking that went on. Even with groups of 4 and 5 you'd get ganked and ganked over and over again resulting in players being forced to log off or go elsewhere. Plus the guards were bugged as they wouldn't do anything if you were attacked. High lev players took advantage of this and would gank everyone of opposong faction.
I was in the Firetree pvp server which had a lopsided population of about 3 times or more Hordes to Alliance. If you were an Alliance you were in deep trouble as was I.
There were times I saw Hordes of much lower levels and I never ganked anyone and I probably should of since it had been done to me so many times. I didn't feel any satisfaction ganking anyone so I didn't. I would however scare them as I would turn invisible in cat form and sneak up on them only to turn visible. The first thing they'd do was to nervously wave hello and I'd laugh as I walked away.
The so called Honor system is a joke as the combat seem unbalanced. I know there have been changes and stuff added but I would still think twice before playing it again.
Again, Blue, i am not sure what game you are playing or how long ago but i will take your points one by one.
Quests
I have a L60 Human Rogue on Aggramar who currently has 12 quests on the go, 4 are dungeon quests and there are still many more that i have not picked up.
As for quests paying small amounts of money, i did two quests yesterday in Silithis where the quests themselves only paid about 2.5 gold, but i made over 40 gold from the items i picked up from the MOB's, let alone a major amount of experience.
Economy
Vary rare or Epic items are madly expensive, but then again the people selling them have gone to major expense to create them or a lot of trouble in epic areas.
Item Drops
Items that drop from mobs are very rarely bound to the player, only quest items or epic quest items tend to be bound to the users. This stops players from 'farming' better items for other players and gives players something to strive for.
Ganking
Again, you played on a PvP server, so what do you expect as they are designed to be a total combat experience. If you do not like the all combat servers, pick a PvE or RP server instead where it is your choice whether to PvP or not, it's not really that difficult is it?
Honour System
Again, i do not see where you are coming from with the honour system being unbalanced. All of the battle grounds are grouped in such a way that like levelled people are together all the time, Levels 10-19, 20-29, 30-39 etc..... Also killing people with a level far below yours does not earn you any honour any way so if you are that way inclined, you will get nothing for it.
In Closing
Again, i understand that the game is not for everyone and it does have some faults (lag and server queues at very busy times for one), but i believe that neither of these comments have been balanced.
Finally, what more do i have to say but 5 Million players can't be too far wrong.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I know I should stay away from this thread, but I can't. It's like a train wreck.....
Economy:
I don't really see that there is anything wrong with the economy. I have tried crafting my way up, and I was able to keep myself geared (though rearely more than half of what I wore I made myself). I have also recently started skipping the crafting and started just selling resources instead. These new alts are now rolling in fat heaps of cash, and can buy pretty much whatever gear they feel like. If you neither craft nor gather resources, I guess it might be hard to keep yourself well geared, but this is a MMORPG, not Diablo . . . .
My only gripe is that crafted gear (apart from a few key items that can only be made from dropped recipes) sells for so much less that the materials it takes to make it. You can spend 40 hours crafting and make maybe 5 G off of all the light leather skins you gather at low levels. Or you can spend 0 hours crafting, sell the skins, and make 50 G. Hmmmm, which should you do? But that is a problem with the crafting system, not the economy.
Sound:
I don't see what's wrong with the sound. It's just as good as EQ II or anything else. There are musical scores, ambient sound effects, regular sound effects. If you crave constant music you can set the music to play constantly. And most things sound like you would expect them too. Spells sound right, combat noises sound right, ambient sounds in say...a savanna versus a swamp . . .are as you would expect them to be. I am really not sure what the OP is looking for on this. Maybe the lack of spoken dialogue makes the sound design a 1? Not that big a deal to me, but if that's the difference between a 5 and a 1 to the OP it's much more importanmt to him than it is to me.
Crafting:
I still say it's not as rewarding or as flexible as it should be. There is very little reason to fool with the crafting on a first character until you hit 60 and have nothing better to do. If you have been gathering resources the whole time, you will be in a much better spot to take up crafting than someone that struggled up with it from level ten or so. Often to make gear of your level you need access to resources that a character of your level will very rareley find. For example, when you first start hitting iron recipes in blacksmithing, iron nodes are still pretty rare in any place that you can reasonably be expected explore. Most of the good recipes are rare drops that you can't really afford (unless you get lucky in the AH). And you don't need a little bit of iron to grind your way up to the good recipes, you need a ton. And as a final kick in the gnads, nearly everything you make sells for less than half of what you could have made if you just sold the resources. Yeah, rock on . . .
Conversley, take a level 60 that just sold resources the whole time and decides to take up crafting. They can wander any zone and will have a maxed out gathering skill, so they can easilly gather anything they need. They will have ungodly amounts of cash in the bank, and so can afford any recipes that come up in the AH. And they don't need to wear any of the low level stuff in their trade, so they can just grind through the first 250 levels or so of their chosen proffesion in an afternoon using 100G of materials from the AH. And they will have hit 60 in about 1/2 the time played because they didn't waste time crafting. So utlimatley, they will hit 60 and have maxed crafting skill is less time played.
I know there is more to having fun in a game then maxing out as quickly as possible. The road, not the destination and all that. But more than most games I can think of, the WoW crafting system is both a timee sink and a money sink. For their level, crafters in most games tend to have a lot more money, not less. You work twice as hard to have half the cash and roughly equal gear to somone that takes the lazy route? That just irks me.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I disagree with more than 96% of what you had to say.
Your post shows that you have no concept of what this game actually is and especially the community.
So sick of people bashing it. You are either just not looking for the right people and hoping that they come to you, or you are on the one bad server out there. Try a RP server at least there everyone has to be somewhat intellegent.
But to say that the entire community of millions of people are all children shows that you didn't give it a fair chance.
This game has it's flaws, but this is not a realistic review at all.
Originally posted by Saftwear The OP is definitely not a vet. I disagree with more than 96% of what you had to say. Your post shows that you have no concept of what this game actually is and especially the community. So sick of people bashing it. You are either just not looking for the right people and hoping that they come to you, or you are on the one bad server out there. Try a RP server at least there everyone has to be somewhat intellegent. But to say that the entire community of millions of people are all children shows that you didn't give it a fair chance.
This game has it's flaws, but this is not a realistic review at all. Go play Eve if you want a good screen saver
I don't look at a vet as being an expert on something. A vet is some one who's been around but just because some ones witnessed 1 bagilion MMORPGs it doesn't mean that they are suddenly an authority figure on it. Just as a noob can get to the level cap and still be a noob. A person who knows little can play every game and still have a crap opinion.
This guy hit the hammer on the nail.Decribed it to better then i ever could.It was like he read my mind.This game is 90% kids and morons,dont know why but it is.
Originally posted by Saftwear The OP is definitely not a vet. I disagree with more than 96% of what you had to say. Your post shows that you have no concept of what this game actually is and especially the community. So sick of people bashing it. You are either just not looking for the right people and hoping that they come to you, or you are on the one bad server out there. Try a RP server at least there everyone has to be somewhat intellegent. But to say that the entire community of millions of people are all children shows that you didn't give it a fair chance.
This game has it's flaws, but this is not a realistic review at all. Go play Eve if you want a good screen saver
Speaking only for my own post here, I never said "all", I said a frighteningly large percentage. Second, it's nonsencial to bash another game (EVE, one of the few I personally haven't tried) in the middle of complaining about someone bashing a game -- and it really doesn't help your argument to do so, it lowers you to the same point you claim the OP is at. And there's no requirement whatsoever that anyone be "somewhat intelligent" on an RP server -- anyone and everyone can and does sign onto them and play on them, there aren't any restrictions or requirements.
Third, again speaking for myself, I have played on normal and PVP servers, as well as RP-PVP servers, but most of my characters were on RP servers. Why? In the very vain hope that they would prove out to be more "mature", if you will, than the usual moronic drivel that comes through the general chats elsewhere. The bad behavior that is rife on many servers (for normal servers, I'd hold up Eonar and Bronzebeard as a large idiot component; for RP, I was on Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade; don't recall the name of the RPPVP server, sorry. Just examples). What type of behavior? Let's give specifics. It is NOT a good community when: you can log into an RP server and be in the newbie starting area with a new character and see several higher-levels (talking minimally teens, but several lvl 50+s) running around trying to get low-levels to "duel", or just throwing lowest-common-denominator bile into the general chat. It is not a good community when you can keep hitting "no" to repeated duel requests on a normal or normal-RP server and be forced to deal with a half-dozen idiots who just run around you in circles, continuing to ask over and over again. It is not a good community when I've listened over and over again to idiots talking about how to "make" someone turn on their PVP flags, by casting at animals near them and other schemes. None of that should even be happening at all -- but that it happens even on RP servers is the point. That doesn't include the other idiotic behaviors, like haunting graveyards and quest-givers, so they can kill people as they resurrect; or kill the quest-givers; or kill the people looking for quests and then kill them again when they resurrect. And so forth. It's apalling, and yes, as someone who has played far too many other MMORPGs, I can state unequivocally that it far worse in WoW than any of the others I've been in. But that's also expected, given a simple numerical law -- if 10,000 people behave badly in a game that has 500,000 subscribers, it's only logical to assume that a similar percentage will do so in a 5,000,000-person game.
NONE of that makes WoW anything more than what is it, or less: a game aimed at providing the easiest access to the most people. And, in exactly sync with that, it brings in the most people who have no clue how to behave even remotely politely, much less to build an online community.
WoW is a good introductory MMORPG, and it has the potential to be something more, but only if they actually: complete the honor system and make "dishonorable behavior" significant; add some, any, degree of real customization to the crafting system (as opposed to every last copper sword being forever-after exactly like every one before it and after it); introduce new animal/monster models. I'm sick of seeing a wolf that looks exactly like the earlier wolf in the newbie area, except here it's "bigger". It wouldn't take a lot of effort to actually differentiate creatures on a more substantial scale, and it would go far to fleshing out the world. Ditto to adding new character models, to allow for more differentiation between players -- something that is desperately needed. They certainly don't lack the profit to flesh out the game and make it deeper, though they do apparently lack the desire -- one expansion out in the first two, possibly three years (they still haven't come up with even an estimated release date) is definitely an apalling lack of support. I can't think of any major MMORPG that has gone that long without releasing an expansion (or multiple expansions) in that same time-period.
I've played WoW, and ocassionally come back to "see if anything's changed", in the hopes that it will improve... because there's a good game lurking behind the poor support from Blizzard and the morons, one that deserves better than it's getting.
Again, with these last comments, i have no idea where you are coming from! But let take them one at a time;
Player Ages & Conduct
Where the hell you get this average age as being in the low teens i have no idea at all. As a matter of interest we were talking ages in our guild today and the average age of those online at the time was around the late 30's / early 40's. The youngest being about 27 and the oldest (wait for it), being 73.
As far as conduct is concerned, in all the time i have been playing the game i have only ever had to put 3 people on my ignore list and have only reported one person to GM's for harrasement. So i would ask again, where are all these rowdy, mindless kids that you people keep on saying are running around unchecked all over the game????? Again, reading from the last line of the first paragraph, it is all assumption and not based on any sort of factual figures in any way what so ever.
As for in game conduct of all kinds, it is part of the experienced players responsibility in any MMO to coach people that seem to be doing things that are not in fitting with the game or situation. Screaming 'NOOB' at someone (and experienced players are the worst for this, not new players) helps no-one. I have found that the vast majority of people appreciate a wisper in the ear about how to act in a given situation, be it during a raid or dungeon run etc...
The Game
Yes, WoW does allow easy access to MMO playing and this is the great appeal to a lot of people both young and old and all other MMO's could learn a lot from it. Doesn't it make sense to create a game that is as accessible to as many people as possible, or do you think that it would be smarter to create a game that is only accessible to hardcore MMO players. Hmmmm, i wonder which would make more profit.
As for Blizzards support, i have never had an issue with contacting a GM within a reasonable amount of time and you only have to look at the patch content to see how they have listened and continue to listen to the players. As for your comment about new content only being introduced after 2-3 years in the add on you are way off base in the extreme. New contant has been added all the time via patches since release, including a lot of high level content (newest being a 40 man x L60 raid), battlegrounds, lots of new equipment etc....
In closing, the game would not sustain the amount of players that it has without quality and entertainment, so according to these poor reviews it should be dead on it's feet. But it aint, is it?
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
First, if you bothered to read my comments, you would NOT find unrelenting negativity, and you would in fact find that I have argued that it excels at what it does. Second, I have never typed the word "noob" at anyone -- though I have found that the same moronic behavior (ganking, unrelenting "duels" even after one has said "no" over and over again, etc.) usually comes from the same people typing "noob". Nor would I -- such language is beneath contempt, if only because it's a clear statement of separation instead of building (as in, community).
Secondly, "profit" is interesting. AC1 has long since been profitable, as has EQ1, and DAOC. Or are we referring to "quantity of profit?".
Thirdly, I have never stated that it didn't warrant it's player base -- quite the contrary, if you bothered to actually read what was written. I argue that it deserves the size of its subscription base -- but I would never, ever make the illogical statement "mass = quality", which is what you are doing with "the game would not sustain the amount of players that it has without quality and entertainment...". Nor does "low numbers" automatically equal "low quality". That's an illogical comment -- arguing point by point, and doing so clearly and without resorting to name-calling or sarcasm, and preferably while offering solutions, would be ideal. Unfortunately (and this isn't limited to WoW) trying to rationally debate the pros and cons of an MMORPG usually doesn't work -- too many "my gamez the bst!" or "this game sucks", and far too many people who argue things like "largest subscription base = quality" and "lowest = lack of quality". "Quality", first of all, is subjective, and the point would be to (as I've done) argue what you regard as quality and what you don't.
Lastly, to repeat, I think there's a great game lurking beneath World of Warcraft -- which is a good game for what it tries to achieve. Okay, not lastly, but this is, as I just read your retorts regarding expansions. EVERY SINGLE major MMORPG puts out monthly (if not weekly) content updates. The difference is, every OTHER major MMORPG EXCEPT WoW also puts out regular expansions IN ADDITION to the monthly/weekly updates/add-ons. The fact is, WoW puts out ONLY periodic updates, and fails on the expansion side of the equation. DAOC puts out regular patches and improvements and content -- and they've put out six major expansions in the meantime too. EQ2, which has been out as long as WoW, has put out almost weekly content updates, several "adventure packs", one full expansion (and another coming in a few weeks). DAOC I've already gone over. Even AC1 has released major content and an expansion in that time. My point is simply this: the prior standard for support of an MMORPG is -- to put out regular (weekly patches and at least monthly content updates) content and to release periodic (usually at least 1-2 per year) expansions. WoW fails in the full comparison of content support.
[quote]Originally posted by spydermr2 [ Third, again speaking for myself, I have played on normal and PVP servers, as well as RP-PVP servers, but most of my characters were on RP servers. Why? In the very vain hope that they would prove out to be more "mature", if you will, than the usual moronic drivel that comes through the general chats elsewhere. The bad behavior that is rife on many servers (for normal servers, I'd hold up Eonar and Bronzebeard as a large idiot component; for RP, I was on Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade; don't recall the name of the RPPVP server, sorry. Just examples). What type of behavior? Let's give specifics. It is NOT a good community when: you can log into an RP server and be in the newbie starting area with a new character and see several higher-levels (talking minimally teens, but several lvl 50+s) running around trying to get low-levels to "duel", or just throwing lowest-common-denominator bile into the general chat.
NONE of that makes WoW anything more than what is it, or less: a game aimed at providing the easiest access to the most people. And, in exactly sync with that, it brings in the most people who have no clue how to behave even remotely politely, much less to build an online community.
I've played WoW, and ocassionally come back to "see if anything's changed", in the hopes that it will improve... because there's a good game lurking behind the poor support from Blizzard and the morons, one that deserves better than it's getting. [/b][/quote]
I play on Argent Dawn, and haven't seen the behavior you're describing outside of the occasions when Blackrock is down and their goon squad comes and harrasses players on AD for a few hours... which is too often, but still.
I disagree with the assertion that it attracts those with no idea of how to behave politely or build an online community, either; at least any more so than other games, outside of the fact that there are so many people playing WoW that it's harder to ignore the idiots. Most players I have grouped with (probably 80%) are veterans of another game, usually EQ or DaoC. Everyone in the guild I'm in has played others as well; it's not the "noobish" player base that it gets portrayed as, even if there are a good number of new players. I also think that they're generally easy to avoid in most situations should you find someone who is really a tool. The exception to this would be the forums on the official website... never have I seen a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
I do agree with a later post you madeabout support, though, and it's why I quit the first time. The lack of an expansion after a year of being up (and likely at least 6 months before it even is close to being released, if then) is a horrible lack of foresight. Trying too hard not to be EQ, they left out the thing that has made EQ consistently popular since its release. The only thing more baffling is the people who complain about there not being enough content, but in the same breath whine about an expansion.
There are legitimate complaints about the game. I refuse to believe that anyone who has actually played this game in the last month would not mention queues when doing a review of it. I'm on my last straw with them, myself, and will move on very shortly if they're not resolved. Focus on large raid content with every free update is also another major gripe of mine; I like the group content, even the small raids, but there seems to be a total lack of understanding in regards to the player base and giving something that everyone can participate in (or even wants to).
The CM's on the forums are almost as bad as the posters on them generally, something that angers me to no end. Communication from the developers is vague when it even exists, and often reminds me of the belligerent crap we got in closed beta for SWG. "Our way is how it is, lrn2play" might work for the guy living in his parent's basement who equates his personal power to that of his character, but for a reasonable adult that sort of communication just pisses them off.
The Burning Crusade will be the make or break moment for the game. It is a great game, but every MMO needs expanding content to survive; and not just the content of this particular expansion will be important, but the timeliness. 3 months since any new announcement about the expansion to me says that they still haven't grasped that.
Originally posted by spydermr2 First, if you bothered to read my comments, you would NOT find unrelenting negativity, and you would in fact find that I have argued that it excels at what it does. Second, I have never typed the word "noob" at anyone -- though I have found that the same moronic behavior (ganking, unrelenting "duels" even after one has said "no" over and over again, etc.) usually comes from the same people typing "noob". Nor would I -- such language is beneath contempt, if only because it's a clear statement of separation instead of building (as in, community). Secondly, "profit" is interesting. AC1 has long since been profitable, as has EQ1, and DAOC. Or are we referring to "quantity of profit?". Thirdly, I have never stated that it didn't warrant it's player base -- quite the contrary, if you bothered to actually read what was written. I argue that it deserves the size of its subscription base -- but I would never, ever make the illogical statement "mass = quality", which is what you are doing with "the game would not sustain the amount of players that it has without quality and entertainment...". Nor does "low numbers" automatically equal "low quality". That's an illogical comment -- arguing point by point, and doing so clearly and without resorting to name-calling or sarcasm, and preferably while offering solutions, would be ideal. Unfortunately (and this isn't limited to WoW) trying to rationally debate the pros and cons of an MMORPG usually doesn't work -- too many "my gamez the bst!" or "this game sucks", and far too many people who argue things like "largest subscription base = quality" and "lowest = lack of quality". "Quality", first of all, is subjective, and the point would be to (as I've done) argue what you regard as quality and what you don't. Lastly, to repeat, I think there's a great game lurking beneath World of Warcraft -- which is a good game for what it tries to achieve. Okay, not lastly, but this is, as I just read your retorts regarding expansions. EVERY SINGLE major MMORPG puts out monthly (if not weekly) content updates. The difference is, every OTHER major MMORPG EXCEPT WoW also puts out regular expansions IN ADDITION to the monthly/weekly updates/add-ons. The fact is, WoW puts out ONLY periodic updates, and fails on the expansion side of the equation. DAOC puts out regular patches and improvements and content -- and they've put out six major expansions in the meantime too. EQ2, which has been out as long as WoW, has put out almost weekly content updates, several "adventure packs", one full expansion (and another coming in a few weeks). DAOC I've already gone over. Even AC1 has released major content and an expansion in that time. My point is simply this: the prior standard for support of an MMORPG is -- to put out regular (weekly patches and at least monthly content updates) content and to release periodic (usually at least 1-2 per year) expansions. WoW fails in the full comparison of content support.
What I like about the content Blizz introduces....is it works. For the most part I have had little to no run in with bugs or exploits. Compared to other games Blizzard is at the top in that regaurd. The reason they are so great at this...........they dont pump content , content , content every 3 weeks creating bugs exploits and gliches in the programming. Which in the long run causes me more headache than anything. Not all games have had these problems....but a fair amount have.
Anyway, Blizzard has added enough content to keep me busy .....all in its first year. And they have much more planned as well, including the expansion. Anyway, I like how they do it, they make sure for the most part everything works 100% then move on to the next thing. Unlike some companies, cough cough SOE. SWG for instance....push push push the content while only having 75% of the current content work, only to have to go back and fix the old content---------------makes ya bang your head against a wall and finally quit the game.
Spydermr2, c'mon geezer, do you even read you own ops? Your previous page 5 op was nothing but unrelenting negativity with quotes such as;
"In the very vain hope that they would prove out to be more "mature", if you will, than the usual moronic drivel that comes through the general chats elsewhere"
"The bad behavior that is rife on many servers"
"NONE of that makes WoW anything more than what is it, or less: a game aimed at providing the easiest access to the most people. And, in exactly sync with that, it brings in the most people who have no clue how to behave even remotely politely, much less to build an online community." (Thats a classic)
"an apalling lack of support" (on not releasing an expansion fast enough for your liking)
and finally
"because there's a good game lurking behind the poor support from Blizzard and the morons"
Now overall i would class that as fairly negative!
On the last post;
Profit
IF YOU had read my comment fully, my point was that it makes far more sense to make an MMO as accessible as possible rather than not, doesn't it?
Expansion
As Bama1267 pointed out, the major difference that i have found in WoW compared to a lot of other MMO's i have played is that the content they put out is in the vast majority bug free and playable straight away. Yes a lot of MMO's put out weekly patches, but they have to in most cases because of problems caused by previous content updates. Now before i get my head seared off with flame, that is not to say that Blizzard get it right 100% of the time, but when they do find a problem it is jumped on straight away and usually fixed within days if not straight away.
As far as expansion packs are concerned, why release one after another after another if you don't have to. A classic example of over expansion without thought is AO, where the game has been absolutely ruined through thoughtless expansion and is fighting hard now to hold onto it's current players (i know two hardcore fans who have left after over 3 years play because they cannot take it anymore) let alone gather new ones (unless you count the freeloaders on non-paying accounts).
I consider myself to be an average player, clocking maybe a couple of hours a day (more at weekends) and my first major char managed L60 last week (i play 5 altogether + other experiment chars) so i am only just gettng to the higher content. MMO's are always going to suffer crtitisism of under expansion from "Power Players" who play the games 24/7 and then wonder why they are not being catered for with extra content. Well WoW has not pandered to this crowd and just thrown stuff in for the hell of it, it has thought out it's content and released it to the public as and when it is ready to go. I believe that the expansion is hitting the game at just about the right time and i am happy to wait for it so it is right on release, rather than buying a package that will need patching to the hilt for weeks afterwards.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Well, again, reading would help you, instead of selectively picking out individual words or sentences without reading the whole. But since that's the standard you're using:
"I wouldn't give it a 1, because the classes are pretty well balanced and the gameplay is very fluid" "Quests -- well-developed, nicely done (especially several of the Night-Elf area quests)." "For me, WoW is an excellent introductory MMORPG, a very polished product."
Each from my original post. That doesn't include the "meta-comments" section, which makes comments that WoW is very good at what it does, and argues (from my perspective, and hence my opinion, which isn't yours) that it would be more attractive to other players with more depth: in crafting, more choice in questing (some choices in conversation, instead of "click on person, get their text, that's it"), and so forth.
And my further posts have enlarged on those points. Unrelenting, by the way, means "never ending", which would, in this case, mean that the negativity was "never-ending" -- which it isn't, as is easily (took about four seconds to copy/paste the non-negative individual comments from my original post) demonstrated.
As for the community, I've given concrete examples, down to naming servers. That's called "supporting evidence". It's used to develop an argument, and to do so with supporting information/evidence. Take last night on Scarlet Crusade, around midnight. And this is an RP server, remember? General chat was filled with discussions of various items one can insert into female genitalia; open requests to be "serviced" by other players (this was near Goldshire), in the crudest of ways; and a guy standing in the mine entrance doing nothing but duel-requesting over and over again and he'd run with you into the mines asking over and over again (and then laugh in general chat and spew profanities at you). This would be "disgusting behavior". I added up how many different people I'd have had to add to "ignore" -- more than a dozen in the space of five minutes. The standard for ignore? Foul language, disrespect toward women (or men, for that matter), idiotic behavior like the "dueling" idiot. Unfortunately, as with last night, that means the Ignore list grows very rapidly -- and this was on an RP server!
Yes, I'm playing again. I re-subscribed for one month because I kept seeing people talking about how the community's matured, especially on RP servers, etc. I can't say I'm seeing anything different, still the same sewer. And, as I've said, I've got hopes for the game, because it has a good base (fluid controls, excellent interface) -- they just need to improve certain areas, add depth and customization to the game. I don't think anything will improve the community -- a direct fact that derives from throwing open the doors to more people than before. Bring in millions of people more than anyone has done before, and you will, inexplicably, bring in more of all behaviors, including bad.
Oh, by the way, having been in AC1 when Throne of Darkness expansion went live, which included a substantial graphics upgrade? Never had any issues. Nor with any of the monthly updates this year. Also over on DAOC? Switched to the new graphics engine, added the expansions from this year, and the monthly content? No problems either. Arguing that WoW is remotely unique in putting out error-less (or close to error-free) content is nonsensical (unless you're comparing it mostly to SOE -- Desert of Flames was SOE's typical mush, laded with flaws).
Originally posted by spydermr2 Well, again, reading would help you, instead of selectively picking out individual words or sentences without reading the whole. But since that's the standard you're using: "I wouldn't give it a 1, because the classes are pretty well balanced and the gameplay is very fluid" "Quests -- well-developed, nicely done (especially several of the Night-Elf area quests)." "For me, WoW is an excellent introductory MMORPG, a very polished product." Each from my original post. That doesn't include the "meta-comments" section, which makes comments that WoW is very good at what it does, and argues (from my perspective, and hence my opinion, which isn't yours) that it would be more attractive to other players with more depth: in crafting, more choice in questing (some choices in conversation, instead of "click on person, get their text, that's it"), and so forth. And my further posts have enlarged on those points. Unrelenting, by the way, means "never ending", which would, in this case, mean that the negativity was "never-ending" -- which it isn't, as is easily (took about four seconds to copy/paste the non-negative individual comments from my original post) demonstrated. As for the community, I've given concrete examples, down to naming servers. That's called "supporting evidence". It's used to develop an argument, and to do so with supporting information/evidence. Take last night on Scarlet Crusade, around midnight. And this is an RP server, remember? General chat was filled with discussions of various items one can insert into female genitalia; open requests to be "serviced" by other players (this was near Goldshire), in the crudest of ways; and a guy standing in the mine entrance doing nothing but duel-requesting over and over again and he'd run with you into the mines asking over and over again (and then laugh in general chat and spew profanities at you). This would be "disgusting behavior". I added up how many different people I'd have had to add to "ignore" -- more than a dozen in the space of five minutes. The standard for ignore? Foul language, disrespect toward women (or men, for that matter), idiotic behavior like the "dueling" idiot. Unfortunately, as with last night, that means the Ignore list grows very rapidly -- and this was on an RP server! Yes, I'm playing again. I re-subscribed for one month because I kept seeing people talking about how the community's matured, especially on RP servers, etc. I can't say I'm seeing anything different, still the same sewer. And, as I've said, I've got hopes for the game, because it has a good base (fluid controls, excellent interface) -- they just need to improve certain areas, add depth and customization to the game. I don't think anything will improve the community -- a direct fact that derives from throwing open the doors to more people than before. Bring in millions of people more than anyone has done before, and you will, inexplicably, bring in more of all behaviors, including bad. Oh, by the way, having been in AC1 when Throne of Darkness expansion went live, which included a substantial graphics upgrade? Never had any issues. Nor with any of the monthly updates this year. Also over on DAOC? Switched to the new graphics engine, added the expansions from this year, and the monthly content? No problems either. Arguing that WoW is remotely unique in putting out error-less (or close to error-free) content is nonsensical (unless you're comparing it mostly to SOE -- Desert of Flames was SOE's typical mush, laded with flaws).
SWG, Lineage 2 , COH and UO all had more exploits and bugs than WOW. And thats just naming some off the top of my head. So , no I dont think it is nonsensical. Also games like DAOC and AC1 as well as the ones I just mentioned Have tended to clean up there act after they had been around for a while. WOW hasnt had to clean up anything, theyve been running pretty much bug free from the start.
Comments
Well first this wasn't a review. It was a personal impression. He has "reviewed" the game only based on his personal feelings, he doesn't like it = done bad. Example: He didn't like the animation variety. Score 1. Even if you don't like them you can't denie that they are very skillfull done (Handmade). Only that fact would have given quite alot of point by a true reviewer. Should be called "The impressions of WoW from veteran MMORPG player".
Secondly he has played UO. Only by reading that you will know that he will never like a "modern" mmo. It's a well known fact that Ultima fans still are looking for the UO in modern 3d. It's also his first mmo and that is also a well known fact. For most people their first mmo is this unbeatable behemoth that they review all their later experiences against.
He has some true impressions, but it's only impressions. This isn't a review.
Phoenixs I like your comment about UO
I'm stuck there to... Give me skill based games now!! Well maybe I'm just growing old. When I was young...
How ever wow got me bored pretty fast about lvl 20 or so. I guess I don't like do grind fore a long long time to just get more of the same. But then I like GW a lot, fast leveling and then of to PvP :-)
Well I guess you never forget your first love.
I fully understand your feelings toward the game. Perhaps your review would be less harsh if you take extra effort in understanding the target audience of the game. WoW is not designed for the mature RPG sophisticate. It is based on an addictive gaming model that has proven to be comercially successful for Blizzard: small, attainable goals leading to progressively greater rewards, with a side of RPG. Diablo was a perfect example. The only people that have time and interest in playing these games are typically youths.
Community. I come from the perspective of a parent. I also play on Shadow Council because of the relatively mature playerbase (and I mean "relative"). I have two preteens who play the game under my supervision as a reward for good school performance. Based on the way players treat each other in this community, it would seem that many are not much older than my kids, or did not have a good upbringing. This immaturity has more to do with demographics than anything else: WoW is accessible to almost anyone. It is the responsibility of parents to control their childrens' environment and to ensure that their children treat others with respect.
Combat. There is not much brainwork required to understand the combat system: point and click or press numbers. The game will always have balancing issues as each class begs for more power, but over time things always seem to reach equilibrium. I find it to be a good learning tool for my children to understand the interaction of numbers, or class abilities.
Crafting. Crafting needs to be simple, attainable, and understandable for kids. While it could certainly use more refinement, my kids find it enjoyable, and that's all Blizzard really cares about - pleasing the youths.
Economy. If this game resembled anything like a real economy, you would not have kids playing it. I am thankful that it teaches kids the concept of resources and production. What else did you expect?
Sound. I like the music. It is thematically consistent and represents the world well. The sound effects are adequate, but the dialogue is often campy: "Arise, my champion!"
PvP. Agree with everything stated. Aside from controlled duels, there is not much intellect or strategy involved. The zerg-like mayhem is clearly for kids.
Immersive Factor. The game is rich in color, texture, and is filled with background activity. Again, I agree.
Quests. Probably the most mature, well-developed facet of the game. The quests are well-written and introduce deeper story lines that most players never see. This feature is the main reason I allow my children to play this game. It teaches them to read, and to understand directions.
Overall. 6.3/10
I loved this review, the first one on the first page. What I think needs to be done is exactly what was pointed out, adult servers. I noticed that you said you played a paladin. That means that you played alliance which is always more "kid" generated because of happy little gnomes and boring humans, not to mention every kid wants to be the new introduced dark elves with a different name! They say that horde wins a lot of the battlegrounds because the shamans are extremely twinked. The reality is that the people playing horde are usually older and more capable of playing their characters correctly. Horde also have the desire to show this in mean ways by bringing out the weaknesses in the game and piss off the children by killing their gryphon riders so that nobody can do anything. It's horrible but it gives us tons to laugh about especially when working in need of something to ease up the work environment.
I think that adult servers would be an excellent implementation and I'm going to post that in the blizzard forums. I know that they could do this simply by checking the age on a credit card. Another good idea would have people compete and win their way into moving to a more professional server. This would weed out all of the people that simply don't care to have any skill. You could even have servers that go above servers. Have everybody start in a beginners server and as they complete pvp challenges, mainly 1 on 1, move up to the next server after a progression of skill is handed to them. Then after getting to an intermediate server, you could compete for an advanced and then to a superior. You get the basic idea. Anybody interested in forwarding these ideas to Blizzard?
Although I disagreed with much of the OPs review, at least it's well articulated. Bravo! I'm not going to cover every point, but things that come to mind:
Graphics: You will love them or hate them. Low poly, few special effects. Fantastic art direction, fantastic engine performance (i.e., good framerates on any halfway decent rig even when a ton of stuff is going on). Overall the engine performance and art direction mean more to me that number of polies and special effects. For example I'd take WoW any day over EQ II. Only games I happen to prefer the graphics of would be DAoC and EVE. I'd give it a 7 overall.
Community: There are so many folks playing that it's easy to make freinds as you level. Ignore the bozoes, turn off general chat in certain key zones (barrens..ouch!), and you will be fine. I would say that WoW has only a slightly worse than average community, not the collection of 8 year old hellspwan that the OP seems to indicate. Most of my in game freinds are geezing like me or older (a good friend of mine introduced me to her graddaughter the other day in game, I was floored!). Overall I'd rate it a 4.
Crafting: He's right, it sucks bad. A complete and utter waste of time and gold. What in god's name were the devs thinking? Out of 300 or so recipes in any given craft, maybe one in ten is anything you will ever want to use yourself and maybe one in 50 or 100 will actually sell well. I'd still at least give it a 2 if only because it gives me a way to make fat heaps of cash by selling raw materials to those poor suckers trying to craft stuff.
Combat: some of the most fast paced and fun combat on the market. However, it varies a lot depending on the class you pick, and sometimes even how you have developed their talents. For example, I will certainly admit that combat as a Paladin is as boring as can be. Their big deal is that they can slowly wear down their opponents by outlasting them...not the most exciting form of combat you can imagine :-/ On the other end of the spectrum, I'd say the WoW mage is by far the most fun nuker I've played in one of these games. And I have played everything from an EQ 1 Wizard right though to a blaster in COH, and numerous analogues in other games (I like me some nukes). I'd give the combat an overall 8 (but lower for a few classes).
Quests: he's right their damn good comapred to most games. But more than anything to me it just shows these games have a ways to go yet. I'd rate them a 7 overall (most games would get a 5 or lower).
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I have to agree on the crafting part.. well semi agree. The stuff most of the crafts can make is pretty useful up untill the higher levels because in smithing the armor just can't compete with drops or quest rewards so whats the point. All in all I'd have to say of all the crafts engineering is the most usefull of all. the others just aren't useful at all.
My, and the OP's (I think) complaint about crafting isn't how useful the items are -- it's that there's ZERO customization. There's nothing that says visually "this is a unique X" (putting a text line in the description that says "made by Fred" doesn't cut it). There's nothing stat-wise that makes your Copper sword different from the other 6 trillion copper swords being made. That's a terrific failing, and it doesn't need to be that way. What if we put in a few enchantments that could be "woven" into a crafted item during the crafting process and that don't require pre-defined "recipes" -- aka, let the PLAYER mix and match and come up with a Copper Sword +1, or a Copper Sword +1 against Rabid Wolves, or whatever. Maybe change the ores to have a wider diversity of metals, and make items made from each ore have different specs (that's still only a minimal customization, but at least it would be SOMETHING).
You'd see a large change to the economy if there were actual, varied items being made instead of the same trillionth retread of the same items over and over again.
And I'd be back in WoW, despite the lowest-common-denominator community (not all players, but far, far, far too many), in a heartbeat if they actually put some customization into their crafting.
Or go the whole hog -- do what Horizons does, and let us build bridges, houses, etc, that are in the world (and conversely, each of those can be destroyed). Talk about changing the tactical requirements of situations -- can't get to a place? Get a bunch of crafters together and build a bridge over the chasm. THAT's putting dynamism into your world and your questing structure -- because the PLAYERS are actually involved in coming up with the solution. It also builds community by putting in mechanisms that let (but don't force) people to work together.
Despite i have cancelled let me say WoW is one of the best starter mmorpg.
Sure as a fellow vet i find it boring pretty fast but i think if i was new to mmorpg i would pick wow.
Why?because its simple,easy and not time consuming.
It comes at a price.As rightfully mentioned the trade skills are pretty poor and lack of content at higher levels is no good.
But it is streamlined,took good features from other mmorpg and looks nice(yeah i know the setting matters not but hey it tooks on old systems nicely).
Of course as a vet you be bored but think this game brought millions of new ppl to the genre that will spread out much like SWG did at a smaller scale.
If you recall SWG at launch ,while a minority were excellent players who kept roleplaying and fueling the community .Majority were new and they had zero idea what to do-rude,ninja looting etc.
This changed after a few months as people learnt to behave.I think WoW community will become this just a bit slower as it attracted a younger age group then SWG did.
Actually, a slight update on the crafting. The level at which you can use a lot of the items that you make seems to have been lowered since I last levelled up a crafter (just noticed it on recently). This actually puts a lot of crafted gear right in line with green drops of around the same level (when I played crafted items generall had inferior stats). Not earth shattering, but more usefull than it was when i levelled up my crafters near launch.
I also agree that some level of customization would help the system a lot. For example, if you want to customize your character's stats, you pretty much have to use the AH because ther just isn't enough variety in the recipes. For a specialized character build there might be one or two crafted items that you can use at any given level, but most of it will have to be AH goods.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Hello
I cant believe how can people say "i agree with OP" when He is LYING in his pseudo "review". Some replies pointed out his lies, so please people, use your brain.
What credit can have OP when hes lying?
Ex
Well where to start with this one. I have only read the original post and not the replies, but that is enough fuel for the fire.
Credentials
You have played a lot of games, but really, some of the trials cannot count as experience. A good example would be Eve, where playng the 14 day trial is really nothing more than a teaser, you cannot get anywhere near understanding the whole game in 14 days and this goes for most of the others as well. You also mention a lot of Beta time, but again, games change a hell of a lot from beta to a few months into full release so do you really know the game?
On WOW
Graphics
Have you really take a look at the different settings on this game, there is a massive difference between lowest and highest settings, although some are very subtle. There are simple things like scenery distance and even more subtle differences like being able to see through the water to what is underneath on higher settings where you can't on lower settings. I think that it is a major credit to the game that those with lower powered machines do not have to suffer pixilated hell, but those with a bit more power can enjoy the finer things. I will agree that the graphics are a bit cartoony, but again it adds to the whole fantasy feel of the game and watching some of the subtle animation differences like an elf flipping to his feet kung fu style when he gets knocked over compared to a clumsy human having to lift himself is genius.
Combat
You are right to an extent that each class has usual defined roles, but these can vary depending on the talents that each class chooses as they level (talents are additions to your skills like speeding up an attack or spell etc.). A rogue, for example, can either be a specialised assasin or a combat tank second only to warriors, depending on the talents that he employs. Also to say that attacks are "Basic & Simplistic" really does them an injustice when you look at the fact that there are certain attacks that can only be employed after the enemy has completed a certain attack for example. There are a lot of subtleties to combat in WoW that are probably not appreciated at the early levels when you are grinding or running quests to level, but you become much more aware of as you get to the higher levels and take on more skilled opponents, both PvP & PvE wise.
Crafting
I'm not much of a crafter myself (although i am currently working on Leatherworking), but i find the system suits the casual and hard core crafters. Casual crafters can make quite a bit of money from watching the market and filling in the gaps, especially at the lower and mid levels. Hard core crafters can make a ton of money from supplying those people who are not really into crafting with epic armour sets, high level enchantments or much sought after weapons. Yes, getting to the higher levels and getting the best recipies is costly and time consuming, but you decide how high you want to go and stick with that and if you want to go all the way you pay the price.
As for your comment about not having to rely on other people, you are way out on that one. My L60 Rogue has to rely on the Auction Houses (and the crafters selling on there) for essential combat items like sharpening stones and swiftthistle for his energy reviving teas. Yes there are a few Hardcore 24/7 players around that have a few high level characters that supply each other, but for the ordinary player like myself, the crafting system and Auction houses are a major life line.
Community
I really don't know what game you were playing, but your experience has been the complete opposite from mine. I have found the community in WoW on all four servers i play on to be mature and very helpful (with a sprinkle of the odd idiot, but that is what 'ignore' is there for).
Guilds do vary very heavily within the game, some are just loose assortments of characters that play and chat, but do little else. On the other side, on my main characters, the guild i joined i could only get into after lengthy discussions with the leaders and after reading the code of conduct on their website. The guild is very well organised with a calander on their site laying out raid times and forums asking for and giving advice to their players.
As far as general chat is concerned throughout the game, channels are split into 'General chat', 'Trade', 'Local Defense' and 'Looking for group'. Recent changes have meant that in major cities the trade and looking for group channels are linked to each other within the sister cities. There are also private person to person chats, raid channels when you are in a raid situation and also party chat when joined with others. On the whole, chat is very clean (there is a language filter for the bad mouthers) and generally very helpful.
There are some idiots in the game (well a game with 5 million subscribers is gonna get some), but these can be dealt with by placing them on 'ignore' withing your personal options and/or reporting them to a GM for whatever they may be doing, which i have always found is dealt with swiftly. Another way of dealing with idiots is reporting them to their guild leaders if they are part of one as most established guilds or those looking to build a good rep in-game have a code of conduct and will deal with such people accordingly.
PvP
There are three types of servers on WoW, 'PvP (Person v Person)', 'PvE (Person v Environment)' & 'RP (Role Playing)'. I personally play on PvE servers as i am not a big PvP fan, but will indulge when the mood takes me. On PvP servers you can be attacked by a member of the opposite faction at any time, which makes the 'Gank fests' you mention a daily thing as that's what the PvP community like. On the PvE servers, you can only be attacked by a member of the opposing faction IF you turn your PvP flag on, or attack someone that already has their PvP flag on. If you do attack a person with their PvP flag on, then this automatically turns yours on leaving you open to attack by the opposing clan, BUT if you do die and are worried about getting 'ganked' you only have to wait a few minutes and your flag will automatically reset again making you safe from attack.
As far as the speed of battles is concerned, who the hell wants to spend 30 minutes fighting a character for goodness sake. The speed of combat really depends on the characters involved and the number involved with a warrior vs warrior fight not taking too long due to the knock seven bells out of each other type combat, but try watching a Paladin vs Druid for example, where healing and protection spells are involved, it is a whole other story. The real insult you threw in there was "just mash buttons and hope you win." I am proud of the fact that i managed to beat a Druid and a warrior, both two levels above me in a fight due to my better tactics, because believe me if it was just a case of mash and hope i would have been flat out in seconds.
Animations / Emotes
OK, what do you wants here? Every MMO and game for that matter will get repetative over time, as there are only so many animations that can be included, but again i think that WoW does a great job in variation. For a start, not only does every class have its own little differences, but every race adds subtle changes as well and then there are the different animations for different spells/combat moves etc...
As far as emotes are concerned, you cannot be serious, there are over 180 emotes in WoW with about half of those animated. OK, a lot of people dance and even those differ from race to race a little, but there is plenty more to play around with if you take the time to look into them.
Economy
The game economy works fine! There are a few farmers in game (tell me an MMO that doesn't have them), but they are being dealt with by in game GM's and Blizzard. Making gold is an easy affair if you are willing to put the work in (i have had L10 characters with several gold from skinning and selling the leather through the Auction Houses). At L60 i can easily make 30-40 gold in a session with minimal work from item drops being sold through the Auction Houses.
Money needs also vary as you rise through the levels, yes there are some very expensive items for high level characters but there are also very cheap items for lower charcters. At the end of the day people can only sell something for what someone is willing to pay for it and if you take the time and watch the Auction houses, you will notice that most of these overpriced items are there Day after Day on the AH because they do not sell.
Sound
Again, there is only so much that you can squeeze in this area, but there is much more than you have commented on. For a start, a lot of the animals that you attack have different sounds (A birds screech sounds very different from a tigers roar) as well as the subtle differences in combat when you make a strike (and sounds differ from something like a normal strike or a throut being cut) or your blow is defelcted or you are knocked over etc..
I cannot add anything to your last two sections as you seem to have captured the flavour nicely. Overall i think that you have missed out on a lot of what WoW has to offer either through playing on the wrong types of servers for your playing style or through sheer negative attitude, but i would beg the question that if it is as bad as you make out in this review, why do you keep coming back??
The game will not be for everyone, no game ever is, but you are way out with your comments.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I think the review from the lead post is extremely accurate in just about everything. But I think he was too kind as I would of put a big fat zero instead of a 1 in some of them.
I ran a Druid 'til level 60 before I left in disgust. Once I got to level 58 I had no missions to do other then dungeons, dungeons, dugeons. It's all you get towards the end. I like to solo at times and had 'til the end but no way can you do this in a dungeon. Even with a small group you couldn't complete them at times.
The economy stinks as everything is mad expensive. The majority of the quests don't pay anything at all and for the very few that do you can expect a few measely pcs of silver. The quests that pay gold which are rare don't pay more then 3-5 pcs.
In a survey I saw and then did since I had the guide, in a section for high level players there were 97 quests with only 6 paying anything and only 3 paying 2 gold and a few silver. This being a section on the map where the highest leveled players go you'd have to think these would be the quests that paid the most and they didn't.
You have to rely on other ways to get cash. While it's true you can obtain loot the large portion of times the loot you get is 'bound" so you can't sell or trade it for cash.
WoW is a gankers paradise as has been already stated. Up in Booty Bay it was extremely hard to play because of all the ganking that went on. Even with groups of 4 and 5 you'd get ganked and ganked over and over again resulting in players being forced to log off or go elsewhere. Plus the guards were bugged as they wouldn't do anything if you were attacked. High lev players took advantage of this and would gank everyone of opposong faction.
I was in the Firetree pvp server which had a lopsided population of about 3 times or more Hordes to Alliance. If you were an Alliance you were in deep trouble as was I.
There were times I saw Hordes of much lower levels and I never ganked anyone and I probably should of since it had been done to me so many times. I didn't feel any satisfaction ganking anyone so I didn't. I would however scare them as I would turn invisible in cat form and sneak up on them only to turn visible. The first thing they'd do was to nervously wave hello and I'd laugh as I walked away.
The so called Honor system is a joke as the combat seem unbalanced. I know there have been changes and stuff added but I would still think twice before playing it again.
Again, Blue, i am not sure what game you are playing or how long ago but i will take your points one by one.
Quests
I have a L60 Human Rogue on Aggramar who currently has 12 quests on the go, 4 are dungeon quests and there are still many more that i have not picked up.
As for quests paying small amounts of money, i did two quests yesterday in Silithis where the quests themselves only paid about 2.5 gold, but i made over 40 gold from the items i picked up from the MOB's, let alone a major amount of experience.
Economy
Vary rare or Epic items are madly expensive, but then again the people selling them have gone to major expense to create them or a lot of trouble in epic areas.
Item Drops
Items that drop from mobs are very rarely bound to the player, only quest items or epic quest items tend to be bound to the users. This stops players from 'farming' better items for other players and gives players something to strive for.
Ganking
Again, you played on a PvP server, so what do you expect as they are designed to be a total combat experience. If you do not like the all combat servers, pick a PvE or RP server instead where it is your choice whether to PvP or not, it's not really that difficult is it?
Honour System
Again, i do not see where you are coming from with the honour system being unbalanced. All of the battle grounds are grouped in such a way that like levelled people are together all the time, Levels 10-19, 20-29, 30-39 etc..... Also killing people with a level far below yours does not earn you any honour any way so if you are that way inclined, you will get nothing for it.
In Closing
Again, i understand that the game is not for everyone and it does have some faults (lag and server queues at very busy times for one), but i believe that neither of these comments have been balanced.
Finally, what more do i have to say but 5 Million players can't be too far wrong.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I know I should stay away from this thread, but I can't. It's like a train wreck.....
Economy:
I don't really see that there is anything wrong with the economy. I have tried crafting my way up, and I was able to keep myself geared (though rearely more than half of what I wore I made myself). I have also recently started skipping the crafting and started just selling resources instead. These new alts are now rolling in fat heaps of cash, and can buy pretty much whatever gear they feel like. If you neither craft nor gather resources, I guess it might be hard to keep yourself well geared, but this is a MMORPG, not Diablo . . . .
My only gripe is that crafted gear (apart from a few key items that can only be made from dropped recipes) sells for so much less that the materials it takes to make it. You can spend 40 hours crafting and make maybe 5 G off of all the light leather skins you gather at low levels. Or you can spend 0 hours crafting, sell the skins, and make 50 G. Hmmmm, which should you do? But that is a problem with the crafting system, not the economy.
Sound:
I don't see what's wrong with the sound. It's just as good as EQ II or anything else. There are musical scores, ambient sound effects, regular sound effects. If you crave constant music you can set the music to play constantly. And most things sound like you would expect them too. Spells sound right, combat noises sound right, ambient sounds in say...a savanna versus a swamp . . .are as you would expect them to be. I am really not sure what the OP is looking for on this. Maybe the lack of spoken dialogue makes the sound design a 1? Not that big a deal to me, but if that's the difference between a 5 and a 1 to the OP it's much more importanmt to him than it is to me.
Crafting:
I still say it's not as rewarding or as flexible as it should be. There is very little reason to fool with the crafting on a first character until you hit 60 and have nothing better to do. If you have been gathering resources the whole time, you will be in a much better spot to take up crafting than someone that struggled up with it from level ten or so. Often to make gear of your level you need access to resources that a character of your level will very rareley find. For example, when you first start hitting iron recipes in blacksmithing, iron nodes are still pretty rare in any place that you can reasonably be expected explore. Most of the good recipes are rare drops that you can't really afford (unless you get lucky in the AH). And you don't need a little bit of iron to grind your way up to the good recipes, you need a ton. And as a final kick in the gnads, nearly everything you make sells for less than half of what you could have made if you just sold the resources. Yeah, rock on . . .
Conversley, take a level 60 that just sold resources the whole time and decides to take up crafting. They can wander any zone and will have a maxed out gathering skill, so they can easilly gather anything they need. They will have ungodly amounts of cash in the bank, and so can afford any recipes that come up in the AH. And they don't need to wear any of the low level stuff in their trade, so they can just grind through the first 250 levels or so of their chosen proffesion in an afternoon using 100G of materials from the AH. And they will have hit 60 in about 1/2 the time played because they didn't waste time crafting. So utlimatley, they will hit 60 and have maxed crafting skill is less time played.
I know there is more to having fun in a game then maxing out as quickly as possible. The road, not the destination and all that. But more than most games I can think of, the WoW crafting system is both a timee sink and a money sink. For their level, crafters in most games tend to have a lot more money, not less. You work twice as hard to have half the cash and roughly equal gear to somone that takes the lazy route? That just irks me.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
The OP is definitely not a vet.
I disagree with more than 96% of what you had to say.
Your post shows that you have no concept of what this game actually is and especially the community.
So sick of people bashing it. You are either just not looking for the right people and hoping that they come to you, or you are on the one bad server out there. Try a RP server at least there everyone has to be somewhat intellegent.
But to say that the entire community of millions of people are all children shows that you didn't give it a fair chance.
This game has it's flaws, but this is not a realistic review at all.
Go play Eve if you want a good screen saver
Speaking only for my own post here, I never said "all", I said a frighteningly large percentage. Second, it's nonsencial to bash another game (EVE, one of the few I personally haven't tried) in the middle of complaining about someone bashing a game -- and it really doesn't help your argument to do so, it lowers you to the same point you claim the OP is at. And there's no requirement whatsoever that anyone be "somewhat intelligent" on an RP server -- anyone and everyone can and does sign onto them and play on them, there aren't any restrictions or requirements.
Third, again speaking for myself, I have played on normal and PVP servers, as well as RP-PVP servers, but most of my characters were on RP servers. Why? In the very vain hope that they would prove out to be more "mature", if you will, than the usual moronic drivel that comes through the general chats elsewhere. The bad behavior that is rife on many servers (for normal servers, I'd hold up Eonar and Bronzebeard as a large idiot component; for RP, I was on Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade; don't recall the name of the RPPVP server, sorry. Just examples). What type of behavior? Let's give specifics. It is NOT a good community when: you can log into an RP server and be in the newbie starting area with a new character and see several higher-levels (talking minimally teens, but several lvl 50+s) running around trying to get low-levels to "duel", or just throwing lowest-common-denominator bile into the general chat. It is not a good community when you can keep hitting "no" to repeated duel requests on a normal or normal-RP server and be forced to deal with a half-dozen idiots who just run around you in circles, continuing to ask over and over again. It is not a good community when I've listened over and over again to idiots talking about how to "make" someone turn on their PVP flags, by casting at animals near them and other schemes. None of that should even be happening at all -- but that it happens even on RP servers is the point. That doesn't include the other idiotic behaviors, like haunting graveyards and quest-givers, so they can kill people as they resurrect; or kill the quest-givers; or kill the people looking for quests and then kill them again when they resurrect. And so forth. It's apalling, and yes, as someone who has played far too many other MMORPGs, I can state unequivocally that it far worse in WoW than any of the others I've been in. But that's also expected, given a simple numerical law -- if 10,000 people behave badly in a game that has 500,000 subscribers, it's only logical to assume that a similar percentage will do so in a 5,000,000-person game.
NONE of that makes WoW anything more than what is it, or less: a game aimed at providing the easiest access to the most people. And, in exactly sync with that, it brings in the most people who have no clue how to behave even remotely politely, much less to build an online community.
WoW is a good introductory MMORPG, and it has the potential to be something more, but only if they actually: complete the honor system and make "dishonorable behavior" significant; add some, any, degree of real customization to the crafting system (as opposed to every last copper sword being forever-after exactly like every one before it and after it); introduce new animal/monster models. I'm sick of seeing a wolf that looks exactly like the earlier wolf in the newbie area, except here it's "bigger". It wouldn't take a lot of effort to actually differentiate creatures on a more substantial scale, and it would go far to fleshing out the world. Ditto to adding new character models, to allow for more differentiation between players -- something that is desperately needed. They certainly don't lack the profit to flesh out the game and make it deeper, though they do apparently lack the desire -- one expansion out in the first two, possibly three years (they still haven't come up with even an estimated release date) is definitely an apalling lack of support. I can't think of any major MMORPG that has gone that long without releasing an expansion (or multiple expansions) in that same time-period.
I've played WoW, and ocassionally come back to "see if anything's changed", in the hopes that it will improve... because there's a good game lurking behind the poor support from Blizzard and the morons, one that deserves better than it's getting.
Again, with these last comments, i have no idea where you are coming from! But let take them one at a time;
Player Ages & Conduct
Where the hell you get this average age as being in the low teens i have no idea at all. As a matter of interest we were talking ages in our guild today and the average age of those online at the time was around the late 30's / early 40's. The youngest being about 27 and the oldest (wait for it), being 73.
As far as conduct is concerned, in all the time i have been playing the game i have only ever had to put 3 people on my ignore list and have only reported one person to GM's for harrasement. So i would ask again, where are all these rowdy, mindless kids that you people keep on saying are running around unchecked all over the game????? Again, reading from the last line of the first paragraph, it is all assumption and not based on any sort of factual figures in any way what so ever.
As for in game conduct of all kinds, it is part of the experienced players responsibility in any MMO to coach people that seem to be doing things that are not in fitting with the game or situation. Screaming 'NOOB' at someone (and experienced players are the worst for this, not new players) helps no-one. I have found that the vast majority of people appreciate a wisper in the ear about how to act in a given situation, be it during a raid or dungeon run etc...
The Game
Yes, WoW does allow easy access to MMO playing and this is the great appeal to a lot of people both young and old and all other MMO's could learn a lot from it. Doesn't it make sense to create a game that is as accessible to as many people as possible, or do you think that it would be smarter to create a game that is only accessible to hardcore MMO players. Hmmmm, i wonder which would make more profit.
As for Blizzards support, i have never had an issue with contacting a GM within a reasonable amount of time and you only have to look at the patch content to see how they have listened and continue to listen to the players. As for your comment about new content only being introduced after 2-3 years in the add on you are way off base in the extreme. New contant has been added all the time via patches since release, including a lot of high level content (newest being a 40 man x L60 raid), battlegrounds, lots of new equipment etc....
In closing, the game would not sustain the amount of players that it has without quality and entertainment, so according to these poor reviews it should be dead on it's feet. But it aint, is it?
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
First, if you bothered to read my comments, you would NOT find unrelenting negativity, and you would in fact find that I have argued that it excels at what it does. Second, I have never typed the word "noob" at anyone -- though I have found that the same moronic behavior (ganking, unrelenting "duels" even after one has said "no" over and over again, etc.) usually comes from the same people typing "noob". Nor would I -- such language is beneath contempt, if only because it's a clear statement of separation instead of building (as in, community).
Secondly, "profit" is interesting. AC1 has long since been profitable, as has EQ1, and DAOC. Or are we referring to "quantity of profit?".
Thirdly, I have never stated that it didn't warrant it's player base -- quite the contrary, if you bothered to actually read what was written. I argue that it deserves the size of its subscription base -- but I would never, ever make the illogical statement "mass = quality", which is what you are doing with "the game would not sustain the amount of players that it has without quality and entertainment...". Nor does "low numbers" automatically equal "low quality". That's an illogical comment -- arguing point by point, and doing so clearly and without resorting to name-calling or sarcasm, and preferably while offering solutions, would be ideal. Unfortunately (and this isn't limited to WoW) trying to rationally debate the pros and cons of an MMORPG usually doesn't work -- too many "my gamez the bst!" or "this game sucks", and far too many people who argue things like "largest subscription base = quality" and "lowest = lack of quality". "Quality", first of all, is subjective, and the point would be to (as I've done) argue what you regard as quality and what you don't.
Lastly, to repeat, I think there's a great game lurking beneath World of Warcraft -- which is a good game for what it tries to achieve.
Okay, not lastly, but this is, as I just read your retorts regarding expansions. EVERY SINGLE major MMORPG puts out monthly (if not weekly) content updates. The difference is, every OTHER major MMORPG EXCEPT WoW also puts out regular expansions IN ADDITION to the monthly/weekly updates/add-ons. The fact is, WoW puts out ONLY periodic updates, and fails on the expansion side of the equation. DAOC puts out regular patches and improvements and content -- and they've put out six major expansions in the meantime too. EQ2, which has been out as long as WoW, has put out almost weekly content updates, several "adventure packs", one full expansion (and another coming in a few weeks). DAOC I've already gone over. Even AC1 has released major content and an expansion in that time. My point is simply this: the prior standard for support of an MMORPG is -- to put out regular (weekly patches and at least monthly content updates) content and to release periodic (usually at least 1-2 per year) expansions. WoW fails in the full comparison of content support.
[quote]Originally posted by spydermr2
[
Third, again speaking for myself, I have played on normal and PVP servers, as well as RP-PVP servers, but most of my characters were on RP servers. Why? In the very vain hope that they would prove out to be more "mature", if you will, than the usual moronic drivel that comes through the general chats elsewhere. The bad behavior that is rife on many servers (for normal servers, I'd hold up Eonar and Bronzebeard as a large idiot component; for RP, I was on Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade; don't recall the name of the RPPVP server, sorry. Just examples). What type of behavior? Let's give specifics. It is NOT a good community when: you can log into an RP server and be in the newbie starting area with a new character and see several higher-levels (talking minimally teens, but several lvl 50+s) running around trying to get low-levels to "duel", or just throwing lowest-common-denominator bile into the general chat.
NONE of that makes WoW anything more than what is it, or less: a game aimed at providing the easiest access to the most people. And, in exactly sync with that, it brings in the most people who have no clue how to behave even remotely politely, much less to build an online community.
I've played WoW, and ocassionally come back to "see if anything's changed", in the hopes that it will improve... because there's a good game lurking behind the poor support from Blizzard and the morons, one that deserves better than it's getting.
[/b][/quote]
I play on Argent Dawn, and haven't seen the behavior you're describing outside of the occasions when Blackrock is down and their goon squad comes and harrasses players on AD for a few hours... which is too often, but still.
I disagree with the assertion that it attracts those with no idea of how to behave politely or build an online community, either; at least any more so than other games, outside of the fact that there are so many people playing WoW that it's harder to ignore the idiots. Most players I have grouped with (probably 80%) are veterans of another game, usually EQ or DaoC. Everyone in the guild I'm in has played others as well; it's not the "noobish" player base that it gets portrayed as, even if there are a good number of new players. I also think that they're generally easy to avoid in most situations should you find someone who is really a tool. The exception to this would be the forums on the official website... never have I seen a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
I do agree with a later post you madeabout support, though, and it's why I quit the first time. The lack of an expansion after a year of being up (and likely at least 6 months before it even is close to being released, if then) is a horrible lack of foresight. Trying too hard not to be EQ, they left out the thing that has made EQ consistently popular since its release. The only thing more baffling is the people who complain about there not being enough content, but in the same breath whine about an expansion.
There are legitimate complaints about the game. I refuse to believe that anyone who has actually played this game in the last month would not mention queues when doing a review of it. I'm on my last straw with them, myself, and will move on very shortly if they're not resolved. Focus on large raid content with every free update is also another major gripe of mine; I like the group content, even the small raids, but there seems to be a total lack of understanding in regards to the player base and giving something that everyone can participate in (or even wants to).
The CM's on the forums are almost as bad as the posters on them generally, something that angers me to no end. Communication from the developers is vague when it even exists, and often reminds me of the belligerent crap we got in closed beta for SWG. "Our way is how it is, lrn2play" might work for the guy living in his parent's basement who equates his personal power to that of his character, but for a reasonable adult that sort of communication just pisses them off.
The Burning Crusade will be the make or break moment for the game. It is a great game, but every MMO needs expanding content to survive; and not just the content of this particular expansion will be important, but the timeliness. 3 months since any new announcement about the expansion to me says that they still haven't grasped that.
Spydermr2, c'mon geezer, do you even read you own ops? Your previous page 5 op was nothing but unrelenting negativity with quotes such as;
"In the very vain hope that they would prove out to be more "mature", if you will, than the usual moronic drivel that comes through the general chats elsewhere"
"The bad behavior that is rife on many servers"
"NONE of that makes WoW anything more than what is it, or less: a game aimed at providing the easiest access to the most people. And, in exactly sync with that, it brings in the most people who have no clue how to behave even remotely politely, much less to build an online community." (Thats a classic)
"an apalling lack of support" (on not releasing an expansion fast enough for your liking)
and finally
"because there's a good game lurking behind the poor support from Blizzard and the morons"
Now overall i would class that as fairly negative!
On the last post;
Profit
IF YOU had read my comment fully, my point was that it makes far more sense to make an MMO as accessible as possible rather than not, doesn't it?
Expansion
As Bama1267 pointed out, the major difference that i have found in WoW compared to a lot of other MMO's i have played is that the content they put out is in the vast majority bug free and playable straight away. Yes a lot of MMO's put out weekly patches, but they have to in most cases because of problems caused by previous content updates. Now before i get my head seared off with flame, that is not to say that Blizzard get it right 100% of the time, but when they do find a problem it is jumped on straight away and usually fixed within days if not straight away.
As far as expansion packs are concerned, why release one after another after another if you don't have to. A classic example of over expansion without thought is AO, where the game has been absolutely ruined through thoughtless expansion and is fighting hard now to hold onto it's current players (i know two hardcore fans who have left after over 3 years play because they cannot take it anymore) let alone gather new ones (unless you count the freeloaders on non-paying accounts).
I consider myself to be an average player, clocking maybe a couple of hours a day (more at weekends) and my first major char managed L60 last week (i play 5 altogether + other experiment chars) so i am only just gettng to the higher content. MMO's are always going to suffer crtitisism of under expansion from "Power Players" who play the games 24/7 and then wonder why they are not being catered for with extra content. Well WoW has not pandered to this crowd and just thrown stuff in for the hell of it, it has thought out it's content and released it to the public as and when it is ready to go. I believe that the expansion is hitting the game at just about the right time and i am happy to wait for it so it is right on release, rather than buying a package that will need patching to the hilt for weeks afterwards.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Well, again, reading would help you, instead of selectively picking out individual words or sentences without reading the whole. But since that's the standard you're using:
"I wouldn't give it a 1, because the classes are pretty well balanced and the gameplay is very fluid"
"Quests -- well-developed, nicely done (especially several of the Night-Elf area quests)."
"For me, WoW is an excellent introductory MMORPG, a very polished product."
Each from my original post. That doesn't include the "meta-comments" section, which makes comments that WoW is very good at what it does, and argues (from my perspective, and hence my opinion, which isn't yours) that it would be more attractive to other players with more depth: in crafting, more choice in questing (some choices in conversation, instead of "click on person, get their text, that's it"), and so forth.
And my further posts have enlarged on those points. Unrelenting, by the way, means "never ending", which would, in this case, mean that the negativity was "never-ending" -- which it isn't, as is easily (took about four seconds to copy/paste the non-negative individual comments from my original post) demonstrated.
As for the community, I've given concrete examples, down to naming servers. That's called "supporting evidence". It's used to develop an argument, and to do so with supporting information/evidence. Take last night on Scarlet Crusade, around midnight. And this is an RP server, remember? General chat was filled with discussions of various items one can insert into female genitalia; open requests to be "serviced" by other players (this was near Goldshire), in the crudest of ways; and a guy standing in the mine entrance doing nothing but duel-requesting over and over again and he'd run with you into the mines asking over and over again (and then laugh in general chat and spew profanities at you). This would be "disgusting behavior". I added up how many different people I'd have had to add to "ignore" -- more than a dozen in the space of five minutes. The standard for ignore? Foul language, disrespect toward women (or men, for that matter), idiotic behavior like the "dueling" idiot. Unfortunately, as with last night, that means the Ignore list grows very rapidly -- and this was on an RP server!
Yes, I'm playing again. I re-subscribed for one month because I kept seeing people talking about how the community's matured, especially on RP servers, etc. I can't say I'm seeing anything different, still the same sewer. And, as I've said, I've got hopes for the game, because it has a good base (fluid controls, excellent interface) -- they just need to improve certain areas, add depth and customization to the game. I don't think anything will improve the community -- a direct fact that derives from throwing open the doors to more people than before. Bring in millions of people more than anyone has done before, and you will, inexplicably, bring in more of all behaviors, including bad.
Oh, by the way, having been in AC1 when Throne of Darkness expansion went live, which included a substantial graphics upgrade? Never had any issues. Nor with any of the monthly updates this year. Also over on DAOC? Switched to the new graphics engine, added the expansions from this year, and the monthly content? No problems either. Arguing that WoW is remotely unique in putting out error-less (or close to error-free) content is nonsensical (unless you're comparing it mostly to SOE -- Desert of Flames was SOE's typical mush, laded with flaws).