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I Beta Tested DDO and give it a 9 over all, made for the intelligent only!!
TroyDarkswrd
Member Posts: 21
Hello fellow MMORPG members. I have Been spending most of my time for the past 10 months playing Guild Wars and WoW and then in Sept 25 I was invited to Be a beta tester for DDO. To be truthful DDO is an above the 75-80% mark for an MMORPG. but remember I have only played the beta and the game changed a number of times in the past 4 months and more for the better with each upgrade. The free team speek feature helps the game play alot . At times when you can find a good group of people to play with you can really get into game play and the missions and Quests fly by as well as the hours.
They had a live dungeon Master on line from around 10:00 AM to about 7:00 PM that would sometimes help the game play and other times give you choices to make that could make or break the mission if you chose the wrong path. Many times The game reminded me of the old Table top PnP.
On one weekend I was asked to join a group that needed a Mage above level 4 so I joined with a good group Once in awhile we would be in the thick of battle and our Cleric would start saying " BOOM, SMASH, POW, CRASH Take that yiou dirty troll try to back stab our paladin and you pay with your life BAM BAM BAM Next" then he would run or hop over to the next bad guy and say " now it's your time to die you fiend " all the while useing this goofy cartoon character voice and the whole team wouild get to laughing and then start to mimic him with their own dumb little cartoon voices I laughed my ass off all day long . That laster for about 6 hours one saterday just after Thanksgiving Day. I gained 4 more levels that day and did more missions in that 7 hours than I had done in the two months before. I never was able to team up with that group again and never thought about starting up a guild with them until after the game crashed late that afternoon and couldn't get back on line until the next day.
During that day of role playing with a group of people that really got into the game the way I believe it was really ment to be played , may have been the best day on any MMORPG that I have ever played.
DDO can be a slow moving uneventful game if you sit around a bar watching the people test their different magic spells just so they can watch the effects of the flash bang and light show and never do anything else.
If you find a well ballanced group of friends and deside to seriously attack the game and have some real fun RPG adventures it can be the best MMORPG ever made. DDO is really right on as a Dungeon & Dragons RPG and I recomend it only to Hard Core RPG Gamers. This game isn't desiged as a hack and slash game so if thats what your looking for then find another game But, if you really want to Role Play and get into a game that has "NO" PvP what so ever and has many Puzzles and traps that requires you to think before you attack or even run down a passage or your dead then this is the game you have been looking for. DDO is the real deal as far as RPG for the masses and for the true followers of Dungeons and Dragons otherwise the rest of you go play star wars or go back to WoW because this game isn't made for you and I mean no offence to anybody, It's just the truth Real RPG for real RPG gamers.
Don't pull on a Dragons tail you never know where it's been!!
Comments
Hello
Well...I wished I could agree. My experience was horrible...both in stress test and this preview. I had so many hopes for a true online DnD experience...but came away with a bad taste.
The mechanics may be in the right place...but you take those fun RPG'ers, put them in another game, and you still can have RPG goodness. Teamspeak can be had cheaply, graphics look better in almost every other game (take WoW for instance...even the goofy cartoon characters look and animate better)
Lag, crashes, character wipe within a 30 minute span, no groups to join..ARGH!
And all inside scenery is just not working for me...And paying for an instancing game...well...I will get my rulebook out and play with my friends instead.
Nice try Turbine...lost my money
This is the intelligence level required for the game, I suppose.
BANG! BOOM! SMASH! Crappy game.
"made for the intelligent only!!"
So anyone who can't enjoy it isn't intelligent? You may want to rethink your title. DDO does not deserve a 9, what new features does it offer over other MMORPGs, none I would say. The combat in game is boring, quests are bland, there are no trade skills, there is no PVP, no player owned buildings, and forced grouping. Heck, it doesn't even have the monk or druid, and you can't be evil!
Oh, and many hardcore DND'ers don't like the game either, it doesn't stay true to DND.
This post illuminates some problems I have with DDO...
First off, the "Boom, smash, pow, crash, etc." is why I do not use team speak. If I heard that, the first thing I would do would be to say I was out of there, the second would be to leave the group.
Second... In 6 hours you gained 4 more levels. That to mee seem to be a little fast. At that rate, you would be at the top level in just a few weeks of playing. Than what do you do?
I am sorry, but the game seems to be lacking in some ways.
Just my opinion...
I almost forgot... Your topic title... For the intelligent only... If the boom smash, etc is an indication of the intelligence level... What a sad indication...
Quests are bland?! What are you smoking? This game beats any MMO in terms of quest and many SP games as well! This is hardly a matter of opinion unless a good quest in your mind is one that requires you to kill a specific number of monsters or collect x items.
Although I would not say this game is "for intelligent only"... maybe in jest. To me it seems to require about as much though as any other MMO... but than again I'm one of those people that has to plan every encounter and think up a solution to every situation, wether it is necessary or not.
Quests are bland?! What are you smoking? This game beats any MMO in terms of quest and many SP games as well! This is hardly a matter of opinion unless a good quest in your mind is one that requires you to kill a specific number of monsters or collect x items.
Although I would not say this game is "for intelligent only"... maybe in jest. To me it seems to require about as much though as any other MMO... but than again I'm one of those people that has to plan every encounter and think up a solution to every situation, wether it is necessary or not.
One quick note here... It is all a matter of opinion. You are only qualified to give Your opinion. And as it has been said a lot of times... "Opinions are like A**holes, everyone hase one." I fail to see why your opinion is any better than anyone elses.
so, basically, dear OP, you are saying the game rocks because you had the luck to find couple pick up groups of people that were good players?
Cause that is all i see you saying. there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of what is good in the game, only how good people those were.
Well, guess what? good people are entertaining, we knew that already, but you do not need DDO for that. meeting them at the bar can be as entertaining as that.
From a review I expect something about the game in itself. If you liked it, what were the positive parts of the game? what felt like good? was the graphics good? sound? is the gameplay good? are the classes interesting? do the feats all works and are all as useful as the others? is there variety of missions/quests and other stuff to do? how the combat feel? What you feel wasn't good enough? are the devs responsive to the community? are there many bugs? etc etc.
I don't personally give a damn to know that *gasp* there are at least 8 good players playing DDO.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Excellent, double post AND the edit got lagged out.. sorry folks
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Dear OP,
The thing I noticed about your review is that you used the word "if" a lot. Sorry, but I am not looking for "if". I am looking for "you will".
The fact of the matter is that DDO makes you totally dependant on other players. There is absolutely nothing you can do by yourself. Frankly, "if" you get a party the game is still severely lacking in fun-factor. That is a big deal to me.
My honest review would be 4 out of 10 . . . as it honestly feels like about 40% of what the game could be.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
The quests are horrifically bland. How many times can you click on a secret door trigger, pick up a item or kill a mob. The odd puzzle is fun the first time but since you have to do the same quests over and over to level they are DULL.
No randomness, no excitement... button mashing combat.
Boring.
Intelligent people only? If by intelligent you mean people that like to do the exact same quests and button mashing over and over then I guess you are right.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Let's face it, most MMORPG's are point and click and hack and slash . . . rinse/repeat.
But the problem is that there is absolutely nothing to do on your own in this game. At least in other games you can explore on your own, even if you can't solo. There is simply nothing to do on your own in this game. You do what the game forces you to do and nothing more.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
The quests are horrifically bland. How many times can you click on a secret door trigger, pick up a item or kill a mob. The odd puzzle is fun the first time but since you have to do the same quests over and over to level they are DULL.
No randomness, no excitement... button mashing combat.
Boring.
Intelligent people only? If by intelligent you mean people that like to do the exact same quests and button mashing over and over then I guess you are right.
Allright, give me an example of a quest in any MMO that can match any "long" quest in DDO in terms of involvment and immersion.
As to the button mashing... no wonder you don't like the game if the only thing you did was button mash when you tried it.
As to the reptitivness... well I'm not going to take you up on that since I'm sure you know how full of BS that comment is.
Hmmm... I don't know, any one of twenty to thirty low level quests in Asheron's Call? Any one of thirty to fifty mid-level quests?
I'll give you a simple example; recover the Atlan stones for your Atlan weapon from the four vaults they are located in. Start with Serac's Vault. Then come back to me and tell me how "involved" and "immersive" the quests in DDO are.
Heck, go to the Lost City of Frore and recover the Ice Heaume of Frore. It's level 25+ (in a game that has 165 levels in it at this time, I believe). Then tell me how incredibly involved and immersing the DDO quests are. Or the Ice Hammer of Frore.
Oh, before you get your Atlan stones... make sure you gather the components to make your preferred Atlan weapon and take the journey to Crater Lake to have it crafted by the Magma Golem.
After you get it crafted, inscribe it... after all, it's yours and it's bound to you, so you will never lose it. Dedicate it to the friends who helped you collect the components and got you to Crater Village. Or dedicate it to your pet hamster.
If you really want a challenge, get the components to create the Sword of Lost Hope. Of course, you need the Sword of Lost Light, first. Make sure you have someone with lockpicking skill.
For any of these dungeons, make sure you have plenty of health potions, someone with healing skill or both. Also, be ready to map the area out, because you're going to get lost. I suppose if you want to take the easy way, you can just use a walk-through.
There are many more examples from Asheron's Call I could name that rival anything in DDO.
Hey, here's something; gather a group of friends and strike out from a populated town and just explore the world. Literally, the whole world. Stop and catalog every dungeon, monument, ruin, castle, tower and point of interest you run across. You could easily spend three days just doing that. Just be careful what dungeons you choose to walk into; some of them aren't level marked for your convenience, as I found out the first time I stepped into Serac's Vault at level nineteen on whim, back in the early days of AC when level sixty-five was practically a deity.
Take a couple hours once you're a high enough level, or have a little help, and get your own HOUSE. Then decorate it with trophies you collect from around the entire world.
Your MMORPG experience seems to be a little lacking if you have not played a game with quests that rival those in DDO.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
I recently played the open beta for DDO, i was on the fence for this game the whole time i played.
As i played with my gaming group (yes im a geek and have an online gaming group) we all tried out all the things the game had to offer, i made a Warforged Fighter, my buddy dennis made a Wizard, my buddy jason made a Rogue, and my girlfrined made a ranger and jasons girlfriend made a cleric.
We easily got to lvl 2 within, about 4 hours of game play. I had to say i did like the ranking up system, and how you can multiclass. But however, i noticied it wasnt a very friendly pickup group game. Such as if i was just one person logging on to play, and had to depend on finding other people to play with. It would take me at least an hour to form a solid group, the grouping features in this game are HORRID.
They are just like every other mmo, only difference is, theres more places in other mmo's, here, theres only 1 and instances. So that makes it pretty damn hard to find a group, the First person shooter style of playing, of me clicking my mouse rapidly, was fun at first, but soon became tedious, and a pain in the ass. The auto attack was a joke, it barely worked, and had to set your char just right infront of the mob.
The Warforged got jipped, when it comes to armor, you cant even buy ANY until you reach the market place, and i had NONE drop (sides for helmet, boots, and goggles.) so i was a naked tank, yet i either made my character PERFECT or the fighter is Overpowered. Simply because i could easily solo about 10-15 mobs, in a row, while my other gaming buddies, could only take about 4-5. These are elite players, not noobies, we always had a plan, and knew what to expect and had potions ready. I mean i can see myself playing this game, like 1-3 times a week, because i wouldnt want to lvl my char to 10, and then have nothing to do in a month. Some people even hit lvl 10 on Beta 2, that was only 3 weeks long.. The game is too easy.
This game is nice instanced though, the Quests ARE FUN!
The Dungeons are HIGHLY DETAILED AND DIFFERENT FROM EACHOTHER!
But with all these downsides, i cancled my preorder. I may pick it up when it releases, but thats doubtful. I also heard on how they might not even regulary update the game, cept adding 20-30 new quests, shortly after release, this game is just being rushed. Its like trying to get a 3 year old to understand the stock market, the game just doesnt know what to do.
Their is bugs with grouping if a member goes LD you cannot kick them out, YOU CANNOT see your own text (what you type) in the guild chat. You can fire on mobs, and they cannot hit you. You can glitch yourself through walls. Theres ALOT of bugs. I highly reccomend letting this game get released then in a few weeks if still intrested pick it up and see if they fixed these things.
Its a fun group game, if you have a DnD PnP group that no longer can meet, this would be the game for you. But however for the average newbie run of them ill World of warcraft player, this might not be your cup of tea.
Hopefully this turns out good, and doesnt bottom up, i dont trust turbine, they make horrid games, and its showing from the beta. But however, I got to give them a chance. Like i said ill prbally be picking this up a few weeks after release after getting input from my gaming group, and how they say the game is going.
______________________________________________________________________-__
By MMO_Munk
We easily got to lvl 2 within, about 4 hours of game play. I had to say i did like the ranking up system, and how you can multiclass. But however, i noticied it wasnt a very friendly pickup group game. Such as if i was just one person logging on to play, and had to depend on finding other people to play with. It would take me at least an hour to form a solid group, the grouping features in this game are HORRID.
______________________________________________________________________-__
I've been doing the pick up group thing for 2 months and it rarely takes me more then a 15 minutes to either build my own group or join one of the groups looking for more. The social window works really well and gives you the option to search for players LFG or groups LFM. ther are lots of options to state what classes and lvls you are looking for and a space to even write a comment (maybe put what quests or area your looking to quest in). I don't see how you can say the grouping systems are horrid, they are the best I've sen to date and since they tahnkfully made the game very group oriented everyone will be looking for a group
Edit: sorry after re-reading I thought to myself 15 minutes seems pretty long i think it usually takes me less then 5 min to find a group, but then again i know most of the players my lvl by now and if they are not lfg i send a tell to say hi and find out whats going on. it takes 10 seconds to check who is lfg on the whole server and what groups are up and looking for more in the social window.
Hmmm... I don't know, any one of twenty to thirty low level quests in Asheron's Call? Any one of thirty to fifty mid-level quests?
I'll give you a simple example; recover the Atlan stones for your Atlan weapon from the four vaults they are located in. Start with Serac's Vault. Then come back to me and tell me how "involved" and "immersive" the quests in DDO are.
Heck, go to the Lost City of Frore and recover the Ice Heaume of Frore. It's level 25+ (in a game that has 165 levels in it at this time, I believe). Then tell me how incredibly involved and immersing the DDO quests are. Or the Ice Hammer of Frore.
Oh, before you get your Atlan stones... make sure you gather the components to make your preferred Atlan weapon and take the journey to Crater Lake to have it crafted by the Magma Golem.
After you get it crafted, inscribe it... after all, it's yours and it's bound to you, so you will never lose it. Dedicate it to the friends who helped you collect the components and got you to Crater Village. Or dedicate it to your pet hamster.
If you really want a challenge, get the components to create the Sword of Lost Hope. Of course, you need the Sword of Lost Light, first. Make sure you have someone with lockpicking skill.
For any of these dungeons, make sure you have plenty of health potions, someone with healing skill or both. Also, be ready to map the area out, because you're going to get lost. I suppose if you want to take the easy way, you can just use a walk-through.
There are many more examples from Asheron's Call I could name that rival anything in DDO.
Hey, here's something; gather a group of friends and strike out from a populated town and just explore the world. Literally, the whole world. Stop and catalog every dungeon, monument, ruin, castle, tower and point of interest you run across. You could easily spend three days just doing that. Just be careful what dungeons you choose to walk into; some of them aren't level marked for your convenience, as I found out the first time I stepped into Serac's Vault at level nineteen on whim, back in the early days of AC when level sixty-five was practically a deity.
Take a couple hours once you're a high enough level, or have a little help, and get your own HOUSE. Then decorate it with trophies you collect from around the entire world.
Your MMORPG experience seems to be a little lacking if you have not played a game with quests that rival those in DDO.
When I started reading this I thought you were sarcastic... yet you are serious.
Just so you know I played AC for 2 years back when it started... matter of fact I played all MMOs except Meridian 59, UO, and CoH. I also played 90% of games labeld as rpg or adventure published after 1998 ( yeah, I'm a game freak/geek).
Now, I can allow that some people may be more interested in what they get rather than what they do during a quest. Even if that is so, it does not change the fact that even though the quests in AC or many other quests in MMOs are very long and require many components they are hardly immersive. Looking for drops or killing monsters to get some special item can be fun, but you have to admit it would not make a great book or movie.
Quests in DDO are the opposite of this. The dungeons and story lines are usualy more complex and interesting, the loot is always random which slightly detracts from the repetitive nature of the quests.
It's ok to like the "fetch-me-20-patyhose-of-doom-and-you-will-get-a-supporific-sword-of-masculinity" quests, yet I dare you to call them complex.
It is true AC has some interactivity in it's dungeons, unlike many other MMOs (I always liked the jumping puzzles). Yet comapred to DDO it is still very basic.
Since you were rude enaugh to suggest that I have little MMO experience to make such a statment I'll retort back and ask wether you acctualy played DDO?
One of the most imersive (and my favorite) quest lines in DDO is Delera's Tomb. just to give an example of the immersiveness and just how cool i think this is. there is a part in the dungeon where you enter the room, it's very large dungeon type room. there is a lever at the top of a set of stairs just past a pool of water. on each side of the pool of water there is a weight sensitive floor tile and a rune above it. you need to pull the lever and then have one of your party members stand on the weight sesitive stones at each end of the pool to open a gate under the water. which leads to a very nasty room with lots of undead and a big shiny black and gold chest at the end. have fun getting to the chest
. I love how you need team work to get here.
there really is a lot of scripting in the dungeon instances whether they are classic dungeons or outdoor adventures. traps spring, things come to life only after you disturb certain things like going for the treasure. there are ambushes. gates close in back and in front of you and mobs assault you. hope your group stayed close and your not locked in there alone
. DDO rocks. and the the whole time you have a DM voice adding to the feel of the dungeon telling you what hear and smell adding ambiance to the dungeons.
I just dont see how if anyone can dis this game. but i guess people like different things ans thats why ther are really alot of MMO's out there. this one is for me.
You must have been playing a completely different Asheron's Call than I was if you find any of the linear, go from point A to point B quests in DDO superior to the quests in AC.
Gaining items has little or nothing to do with what made the quests in Asheron's Call superior; the size, challenge and storyline that supported them made them superior. You already pointed out jumping - add in the requirement for lockpicking skills, levers and hidden doors. If you never found a hidden door, or didn't even know they existed, you just couldn't have gotten that deep into AC.
If I find myself lost in a dungeon because it is huge, complex and well designed; that is immersion. If my heart is pounding because I am surrounded by enemies and my group is fighting their way toward their goal, even if that goal is just a safe area, that is immersive. I found nothing of the sort in DDO. The quest NPCs give me no particular motivation to do the quest; there is no involving, progressive storyline present and little or no lore supporting it. The dungeons started at one point and ended at another, and the handy map showed me where I'd been and for the most part, where I was going. If you had to repeat the dungeon, it presented no particular difficulty since spawns, traps and obstacles are static. Yes, obstacles and traps were static in AC; but the spawns kept you constantly on your toes.
I also find it very difficult to believe that anyone who played Asheron's Call for two years when it started could find any single quest or storyline in DDO to rival the Shadow War. The best part of those storylines is that those quests still exist. You can still fight Black Ferrah, you can still recover the Sword of Lost Light and they are still part of the lore. Even if you weren't present for the Shadow War, you can still visit the deathbed of Bael'Zharon on Aerlinthe Isle.
Looking for a special item is often THE central goal of much fantasy fiction; what that central goal evolves into and where it leads depends completely on the lore, story and characters, ergo roleplay. The Fellowship of the Ring was about nine adventurers who, at the core, were going to a volcano to throw a ring embodying evil in their world into it. It was their separate backgrounds, weaknesses, strengths and conflicts that gave heart to the story and made it more than just "throw the ring into the volcano."
Compared to DDO, AC is very basic? What quests, exactly, did you do in your two years? How about the cooperative quests that took place between groups in two or even three separate dungeons, where you could only succeed if a group in another dungeon managed to reach the levers or machines to open the next area in your dungeon? That was complexity and it involved large groups comprised of levels from twenty-five to sixty-five. Nearly everyone could be involved in them. They required an incredible amount of organization and communication, besides just the skills to get to the locations you needed to reach.
It was never about killing X monster to find X item; most of the quests that I completed, I found purely by chance and it took thought to complete them. Half the time, it was a puzzle just trying to find the location that the NPC was referring you to. Unlike DDO, where it is marked on a handy map in a small city, in AC you were normally given an area in a vast world.
Yes, I played DDO. I was in the beta, though I finally just uninstalled Stormreach when I realized that I rarely logged in to play the game. Honestly, I found it not only extremely boring but lacking most of the major components that make D&D PnP the great experience it is. Nothing in DDO delineates my character/avatar from the other X number of characters who look nearly identical to me. The only things truly unique about my character was my name.
True, the vast majority of MMORPGs are guilty of the same thing. Which is why DDO, again, is disappointing. The concept that brought roleplaying to the masses should redefine the MMORPG genre as well, starting with options to make the player character as unique as possible. Although CoH was very linear, the one thing it had was a very robust character creation. So robust that I could identify my friends out of crowds of hundreds of other players. DDO should have that. If it had incorporated more of the actual elements from the PnP game, it would have.
Crafting may be in sometime in the future? No alignments? No deities? No huge world to discover? No bulidings to break into? Missing races? Missing classes? The list just goes on.
I call the "fetch X amount of something to get X" complex when what you have to go through to get X amount of items involves exploration of an area or dungeon you have never been in before. Exploring that area leads to discovery. I don't call "fetch X" immersive if it means sitting next to a static spawn for hours on end. I call "fetch X amount" complex if you aren't following a walkthrough from a fan web page and are forced to speak to NPCs and learn more about the story. I call it immersive when you are forced to explore areas of the game world because you aren't given the exact location on a map.
In AC, to create my GSA, I went to a dungeon south of Qalaba'r because I had heard there were shadows in there. It took considerable time, but I managed to explore the entire dungeon through perseverance and lockpick skill. Not only did I manage to get the shadow shards I needed for my armor, but I also discovered an NPC in the bottom of the dungeon, Hamud Ibn Rafik, damned to existence as a Shadow. That led me back to his daughter and revealed the entire story as I progressed through the quest from her, to her father, to the Empyrean Foundry and back to Hamud.
That whole quest series started because I wanted to "fetch X" but instead, found adventure where I least expected it and the robust story of Hamud Ibn Rafik drew me in.
I don't call it immersive when I speak to an NPC, they tell me exactly where to go, that location is down the street and to the left on my handy dandy map, I enter and everything is static so I only have to complete a section of the dungeon once to know that's exactly what I'll be facing the next time I go in from monsters to traps, the dungeon leads from the entrance to the end and I never have to fear surprises after dealing with a particular section. How is that immersive? Worse, to continue progressing I may have to repeat that dungeon again in the future, and guess what? No surprises there.
I don't call it immersive when nothing I get in the dungeon is unique in the slightest and I have no ability to modify it myself to make it unique. I may get a +3 Vorpal Blade, but someone else will get one as well at some point, so big whoop. I can't add to it, I can't name it, I can't change anything about it.
I'm not insulting anyone who has played and enjoys DDO. I believe anyone who is interested should give it a try BUT I also believe that potential customers should know exactly what the game has or doesn't have.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
Dude. you have got to be joking, if not, you are very uninformed. Or misinformed. I wont even get into details, but seriously bro, DDO is being made by TURBINE. And yeah, if players can hit lvl 10 in a 4 week beta... You got some problems, 1 month to max out in a game? Please. Although i will probally be picking DDO up i will NOT be buying it on launch, way to buggy, i dont want to deal with the stress.
The combat is like i said fun at first for me but after a few hours of solid playing my fingers began to hurt from all the rapid clicking. You cant have that in an mmo. Least not a hardcore players MMO. IMO.
Im gonna let them work out the kinks, and it will be like i said a decent game to play as i wait for a real mmo to come to the table.
Other words...
VANGUARD FOR THE WIN NEWBIE.
youll be eating your words bro, when turbine pulls the plug on this pile in a year. This game simply CANNOT compete with the other mmos out to date. And the new ones being released, will just do the finishing blow. Seriously. Look at how little content this game has. You are restricted to parts of the city, you have to do quests to unlock the city, unlock the full city, you win, game over. End of game.
Anyways, you can't even be a monk or a druid, thats not Dungeons and dragons in my book.
This game wil survive mainly on its name. Dungeons and Dragons name alone has ALOT of pull in the gaming world. But not enough to beat out microsofts pocket book when it comes to advertising, so yet again Vanguard beats this game on this venture also. Including more content, crafting diplomacy, and PVP, and player owned houses, ships, building, shops may i say more? Newbietastic.
You must have been playing a completely different Asheron's Call than I was if you find any of the linear, go from point A to point B quests in DDO superior to the quests in AC.
Gaining items has little or nothing to do with what made the quests in Asheron's Call superior; the size, challenge and storyline that supported them made them superior. You already pointed out jumping - add in the requirement for lockpicking skills, levers and hidden doors. If you never found a hidden door, or didn't even know they existed, you just couldn't have gotten that deep into AC.
If I find myself lost in a dungeon because it is huge, complex and well designed; that is immersion. If my heart is pounding because I am surrounded by enemies and my group is fighting their way toward their goal, even if that goal is just a safe area, that is immersive. I found nothing of the sort in DDO. The quest NPCs give me no particular motivation to do the quest; there is no involving, progressive storyline present and little or no lore supporting it. The dungeons started at one point and ended at another, and the handy map showed me where I'd been and for the most part, where I was going. If you had to repeat the dungeon, it presented no particular difficulty since spawns, traps and obstacles are static. Yes, obstacles and traps were static in AC; but the spawns kept you constantly on your toes.
I also find it very difficult to believe that anyone who played Asheron's Call for two years when it started could find any single quest or storyline in DDO to rival the Shadow War. The best part of those storylines is that those quests still exist. You can still fight Black Ferrah, you can still recover the Sword of Lost Light and they are still part of the lore. Even if you weren't present for the Shadow War, you can still visit the deathbed of Bael'Zharon on Aerlinthe Isle.
Looking for a special item is often THE central goal of much fantasy fiction; what that central goal evolves into and where it leads depends completely on the lore, story and characters, ergo roleplay. The Fellowship of the Ring was about nine adventurers who, at the core, were going to a volcano to throw a ring embodying evil in their world into it. It was their separate backgrounds, weaknesses, strengths and conflicts that gave heart to the story and made it more than just "throw the ring into the volcano."
Compared to DDO, AC is very basic? What quests, exactly, did you do in your two years? How about the cooperative quests that took place between groups in two or even three separate dungeons, where you could only succeed if a group in another dungeon managed to reach the levers or machines to open the next area in your dungeon? That was complexity and it involved large groups comprised of levels from twenty-five to sixty-five. Nearly everyone could be involved in them. They required an incredible amount of organization and communication, besides just the skills to get to the locations you needed to reach.
It was never about killing X monster to find X item; most of the quests that I completed, I found purely by chance and it took thought to complete them. Half the time, it was a puzzle just trying to find the location that the NPC was referring you to. Unlike DDO, where it is marked on a handy map in a small city, in AC you were normally given an area in a vast world.
Yes, I played DDO. I was in the beta, though I finally just uninstalled Stormreach when I realized that I rarely logged in to play the game. Honestly, I found it not only extremely boring but lacking most of the major components that make D&D PnP the great experience it is. Nothing in DDO delineates my character/avatar from the other X number of characters who look nearly identical to me. The only things truly unique about my character was my name.
True, the vast majority of MMORPGs are guilty of the same thing. Which is why DDO, again, is disappointing. The concept that brought roleplaying to the masses should redefine the MMORPG genre as well, starting with options to make the player character as unique as possible. Although CoH was very linear, the one thing it had was a very robust character creation. So robust that I could identify my friends out of crowds of hundreds of other players. DDO should have that. If it had incorporated more of the actual elements from the PnP game, it would have.
Crafting may be in sometime in the future? No alignments? No deities? No huge world to discover? No bulidings to break into? Missing races? Missing classes? The list just goes on.
I call the "fetch X amount of something to get X" complex when what you have to go through to get X amount of items involves exploration of an area or dungeon you have never been in before. Exploring that area leads to discovery. I don't call "fetch X" immersive if it means sitting next to a static spawn for hours on end. I call "fetch X amount" complex if you aren't following a walkthrough from a fan web page and are forced to speak to NPCs and learn more about the story. I call it immersive when you are forced to explore areas of the game world because you aren't given the exact location on a map.
In AC, to create my GSA, I went to a dungeon south of Qalaba'r because I had heard there were shadows in there. It took considerable time, but I managed to explore the entire dungeon through perseverance and lockpick skill. Not only did I manage to get the shadow shards I needed for my armor, but I also discovered an NPC in the bottom of the dungeon, Hamud Ibn Rafik, damned to existence as a Shadow. That led me back to his daughter and revealed the entire story as I progressed through the quest from her, to her father, to the Empyrean Foundry and back to Hamud.
That whole quest series started because I wanted to "fetch X" but instead, found adventure where I least expected it and the robust story of Hamud Ibn Rafik drew me in.
I don't call it immersive when I speak to an NPC, they tell me exactly where to go, that location is down the street and to the left on my handy dandy map, I enter and everything is static so I only have to complete a section of the dungeon once to know that's exactly what I'll be facing the next time I go in from monsters to traps, the dungeon leads from the entrance to the end and I never have to fear surprises after dealing with a particular section. How is that immersive? Worse, to continue progressing I may have to repeat that dungeon again in the future, and guess what? No surprises there.
I don't call it immersive when nothing I get in the dungeon is unique in the slightest and I have no ability to modify it myself to make it unique. I may get a +3 Vorpal Blade, but someone else will get one as well at some point, so big whoop. I can't add to it, I can't name it, I can't change anything about it.
I'm not insulting anyone who has played and enjoys DDO. I believe anyone who is interested should give it a try BUT I also believe that potential customers should know exactly what the game has or doesn't have.
I have had very similar experiences as you and that's why I stuck with AC for so long. It was a great game and I wish AC2 had followed in it's footsteps.
Nevertheless my opinion is that the quests in DDO are terrific because of their scripted nature. In what other game does the dungeon start to collapse after a certain trigger? Sure, once you finish a quest it's not as much fun going over it a second time, and one can find fault with the fact that it is often necessary to repeat the quests. These faults do exist and a random approach to trap and monster placment could have aliviated these problems, yet a random encounter will always be inferior to a scripted one when faced with for the first time. This in-turn reveals a bigger problem for those that expect to play this game for months; the entertainment value drops very fast after the first few weeks of play.
To summerize, in my opinion, this game decided to lean towards quality over quantity, unlike most MMOs, and that is why so many people feel like the game is not worth the time as an MMO (and it may not be, but if you play SP rpgs the game has alot to offer in comparison that you can't get out of SP).
A good advice is that if you don't care about persistant characters and randomply encountering people in the tavern, wait for NWN2.
It seams I hit a cord in saying That DDO is made for the Intelligent only.
Now after reading all the rants here I see I was right 100%. The hack and
slash crowd hate the game the few that have 7 or 8 years of D&D under
their belt if you can call any other game mentioned as D&D think the game
repetes its self and is boreing. well thats good once the game opens we won't
see any of the slam bash players who spend all their time leveling and farming
all day with no real ROLE PLAYING SKILL what so ever.
One child said if he was in a game and heard some one say slam bash pow he
would leave the game in a flash. Thats tipical of NON RPG gamers.
If it's not high speed hack and slash they can't handle the slow pace of what D&D
is all about.
The game is not for the selfish solo gamers that are only out for themself.
IT is totally designed for Team play in the old D&D style using an up dated set of rules.
In my room I can look at my library that contains EVERY D&D 1st,2nd & 3d edition PnP
Game ever made. I am a Dungeon Master and have replayed every one of these games
at least 5 times each with my group of 22 members of D&D gamers.
In my Library of TSR Dungeons & Dragons I own every first edition and bought them the day
they hit the shelves. At close to 1200 Books and 800 Novels not to mention 2754 Computer
games from the old commador 64 up to every consol every made all the way up to a full
paid pre order of Oblivion Elderscrolls IV as well as 7 other new games comming'
DDO is not the end all, of all these games because there are alot of games I liked much better'
DDO is a game that makes you think befor you move! As far as Dungeons and Dragons goes
DDO is the top of the Pile so far. Yes it has Bugs thats why it's still in BETA, and compaired
from Day one of DDO BETA the game has come along way.
This makes my 24th BETA game Ive tested and if you think this game is bad you should have seen
WoW 3 weeks before it went gold. You want to talk about a piss pore game just before release!!!
NO lets not go there, lets just say alot of the BETA testers were not sure weather they would
evey play the final verison. Now I think they just sold their 3 millionth copy but I'm not sure it
may have been more.
For all those that played for 48-60 hours and felt they beta tested DDO They're wrong!!! you missed
the whole Idea of the game. DDO is for Intelligent People that like working together as a team.
Depending on each other and not just playing the game but, becoming the game and yes some days it took awile to find a group but other days it was a mater of min from log on to Dungeon Crawl.
In the old PnP D&D the difference was that you didn't get to watch your character in action, instead of explaining his/her every move you get to control the moves. Now all those D&D groups out there are really going to love this game.
The rest of the world are not D&D gamers they may be top of the line gamers in other types
of RPG games but to play DDO you really have to be a Dungeons & Dragons Geek with the world
of D&D as their center of the game world putting all other games last.
I play alot of WoW and Guild Wars and DDO is a totally different game, in fact I can't begin to
compair those 2 to DDO because they are not Dungeons and Dragons but, they are both great
games.
I guess what I should have said was DDO is made for the D&D GeekS only but if you ever meet
one you'll notice they are for the most part more Intelligent than most gamers because they in their
bordom invented D&D RPG and got the computer Gaming RPG world started everything else came after.
Don't pull on a Dragons tail you never know where it's been!!
I'm afraid i'm with Burrek on this one. I love AC, i still do after having played it for like 3 years. I understand what Som is saying that DDO points you exactly to where to quest is and theres very few follow on ones to improve items etc, but as far as dungeon designs go DDO wipes the floor with anything AC has.
And as far as follow on quests go like getting the sword of lost hope from sword of lost light etc, that wasn't even added till WELL after launch.
The shadow arc storyline was great but once again the items were trivial to get. You got a group, went into a dungeon and plowed through occationally hitting a switch. At least in DDO you have to find secret passages, have a strong man turn a lever or figure out some puzzle etc.
The cooperative quests you're talking about may still come to ddo, who knows. I certainly dont remember any being in the beta of AC but perhaps i'm wrong on that point. There's certainly nothing to stop turbine from putting them in.
I do agree though that it would be nice that they had stuff like in some dungeon you found a piece of paper you had to get translated and that would put you onto like some other arc of quests to do. That kind of thing happened a lot in ac. Well it'll probably make it in eventually, it is the same company afterall. They're allowed to copy ideas they've already used :P.
You went on about your gsa quest how one part led onto the other and the story evolved. Well i'll assume that that kind of thing will make it into DDO, just there wont be half as much running around or spamming marketplace ( or subway
now dead ) for a port to some far off place.
On the subject of 9 overall for ddo and made for the intelligent only, i think thats a bit of a stretch. It's a fun game but hardly one thats going to give you headaches working something out.
Omg it's true, this is the end of my post :O
Yes... because EVERYONE knows hacknslash based games require intelligence to play... clickclicklicklicklick.... dead. Repeat.
I did enjoy the elements you refer to here; the surprising twists that some dungeons in DDO have. But their static nature honestly just sucked the joy out of it. Especially if your group was not successful the first time through. At that point, the dungeon simply lost all of its charm.
I can't agree with you on the scripted vs. random quest, especially if you are forced to repeat the scripted quest. Random encounters keep the player in a state of suspense, wondering where, when and if... scripted encounters provide zero tension for the player. They KNOW where, when and if.
And it isn't like it's that difficult to make the trigger for events like those dynamic rather than static. More than anything, that smacks of either laziness, poor planning or a rush to release.
You mentioned your disappointment in AC2, which is something we definitely share. I find the parallels between AC2 and DDO to be too hard to ignore. Asheron's Call had a robust character creation, with tons of skills and deep character development; you had to give a lot of thought to where you put your experience points at any given time, unless you were just following a template. AC2 replaced all of that depth with skill trees; very similar to DDO.
In Asheron's Call, you could walk into any building on the landscape and nearly every single one had an NPC that gave a quest or performed a function. AC2 took all of that away. DDO follows the same example as AC2.
Asheron's Call had an enormous, seamless world, dotted with points of interest, dungeons, monster spawns and relics of ages gone past; you could travel the world and find things that no other player had seen yet. AC2 was a seamless world, but largely empty. DDO? No world, seamless or otherwise.
Again, DDO isn't a failure; but it simply lacks so many elements of D&D PnP that, for myself and many other D&D veterans (not all, of course) it just isn't D&D.
True, the Shadow War storyline wasn't in Asheron's Call at launch; but I would be hard pressed to see how Turbine could even pull off a similar event in DDO, given the instanced nature of the game and the lack of large, open areas; heck, even strong, dynamic NPCs.
No, there weren't any cooperative quests in the AC beta. On the other hand, again, I'm not certain how Turbine could pull that feat off in DDO even if they wanted to.
Heh... well, I've never been much of a spammer, so if I wanted something I pretty much went and got it. The same for ports. I started with a swordsman template, figured out that it wouldn't get me far and re-made my character for sword/item. The first thing I did was put points into Item to learn my portal spells. For me, the running around was half the fun! I never used maps or walkthroughs and sometimes it could take me a whole day just to figure out the layout of a larger dungeon.
I guess what it boils down to for me as far as dungeons go is what use is a superior design if it's static? And lacking any outdoor areas, a large world to explore, or experience for anything other than completing a quest, there really is no alternative to these dungeons.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
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Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes