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Infiltrator or Scout?
zerox168
Member Posts: 88
What owns in RvR and what roles do they have?
Comments
Right now it is Scouts. After this next patch maybe Infs.
Both have the role of giving intel. Scouts are long range and target casters/archers/assassins. They also /assist and group up and kill tanks by grouping up on them.
Assassins kill other assassins. Sometimes they kill archers or casters. Most of the time they just kill other assassins. MoS makes it difficult to kill higher RR archers. You cannot kill many casters because of brittle guards (of course on the classic servers assassins classes are better off). You cannot kill tanks. You can as an assassin group up with other assassins and take out tanks or do some damage to smaller groups.
I am pessimistic about assassins in general after NF. However, once this next patch goes live playing assassin might again be enjoyable. So if I were you, I would wait until after this patch goes live and ask again.
I can't really agree with assassins not being able to take tanks. While my SB couldn't take a reaver for the life of him I could school pallies, mercs, blademasters, and hero's. It's all about how you make him, especially with the stealther classes. With any tank or caster you can mess up the skill points some and still come out on top but with stealthers you have to be right on top of it.
MoS works both ways for finding stealth. If your MoS is equal to your opponents then the effective is more or less negated on both ends. If your's is great then you have a better chance and seeing other stealthers and vice versa for the enemy. Assassin's also have the added ability of having an increased chance of spotting another stealther while the bow classes, atleast the hunter, receives a special skill that gives them a little more chance to hide.
Being hidden in stealth also depends on what your stealth level is at too. Personally I tried to keep mine at level for every stealther I had through means of skill points and bonuses. Archerers I've seen tend to go a little less in stealth making them easier to spot but you have to keep in mind that means they've put those points into combat skills making them a better fighter. I've even seen other stealthers from as far as 1500 units but in most cases this is actually a minstrel attempting to be stealthy.
Now if you're looking for the class the pwns all others you wont find it. Each toon is only as good as the person using him. I like assassins for they're initial shock value when that caster who's running along suddenly loses 90% of his life in one blow. I like seeing other stealthers and standing in they're path as they walk right up to you oblivious as to whats about to happen to them. Or if they catch wind of you theres always the cat n mouse game, who gets the first blow in. Many people are happy to see the assassin backstab theyre opponent when they're losing to a fight. and even being on the receiving end of the blade theres nothing worse than the feeling you get when your stunned or mezzed and you see the assassin walking right up to you in stealth and you know whats going to happen next and you can't do a thing about it. Also the assassin can climb keep walls and knock out annoying wall campers. They have safe fall allowing to jump down to other areas to knock out the opponent.
The scout doesn't need to climb wall's though, he'll just shoot em off like ducks at a carni game. I've heard in one of the last patches that bow classes received safe fall 1 which I hope they did. The beauty of this class is that you can be anywhere when you hit your target and you may very well knock 3-4 arrows if you haven't killed them before they'll even see you. And if this go bad then atleast you have a better chance of escaping especially with the range you'll already have on the opponent. Scouts can also spec shield. Put enough points in for the 3 second stun so if a stealther does pop you then you bash him and run and you may just get out of it.
These classes are 2 completely different worlds but both require patience above all else and are some of the funnest classes to play I think cause when you're good your good but when your bad, your dead.
1. When was the last time you took on a tank? I am not saying it isn't possible to kill one. I am just saying it is not a viable option. I have done it, but it is not something I would suggest you hunt. There is a cap on evade, you cannot repoisen your weapons, you have worse armor and lower hits. There are ways to get around this. Run a buff bot account and fully buff yourself so as to double your hits. Carry extra poisoned weapons so that when the tank uses purge you just switch out weapons and repoison him. There are ways to do it, but they certainly are not targets you are going to go after. Prior to the evade cap then I would says tanks were a viable option.
2. An assassin seeing an archer farther off is pointless is the archer can also see you. The archer still has a distance advantage and can do significant damage in that time. In order for an assassin to do his job he will need to get close and use CS styles. MoS has made this significantly harder.
3. Currently, since archers can now see assassin classes, it is far better to play an archer class because you can then target both archers and assassins at a distance. Currently, assassins have little viable role to fullfill in the game. But as I said things might finally make it worth playing assassin classes after the next patch.
Yah I think MoS for archers is a tad over powered. It lets them see assassins way too far away. Assassins should only be visible to MOS3 or higher and should be fairly close before their visible. Maybe ONE bowshot's distance, not 2 or 3 hits away like they are now. I do like that archers can see the little buggers though. It absolutely SUCKED when they could see us from a mile away and just walk up and kill us at will. THAT was just as bad as what they deal with now. Matter of fact that was the single biggest change that caused me to stop playing my ranger way back then. But I do see how MoS is hurting them now. I'd like to see it toned down to where the Stealther is visible but it's only distant enough for the archer to decide to bug out or whatever before they're attacked. Not far enough to kill them from range. Hope that makes sense. Now... I have no pity for stealthed minstrels or Champ Level casters who buy stealth. THEY should be fully visible to MoS at range.
Assassins, however, are supposed to be the true masters of stealth. Maybe give their MoS ability an added bonus that it reduces the range of opposing MoS skills?
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1. When was the last time you took on a tank?
Gotta remember I quit the game before the 1.81 patch but full shield tanks, Like the reaver as I said, I generally avoided. Even with my zerker, thane, and even warrior I still tried to avoid reaver cause they're just plain nasty. I also didn't care to take vamps on, even wounded ones. In most cases I'd catch a tank off guard like if they were in the middle of chasing down some poor sap. That gives me a couple of free shots there. Also looking for the wounded was a easy enough kill. I'd wait for a group to run by then I'd walk into the pathway and watch for stragglers or someone coming back hurt from the fight and finish them quick.
I was checking molvik one time and found a lone pally beating on my tower door (I say mine cause my guild had MT in molvik at the time). So I got my backstab in and started working on him thinking if things started going bad I'd be able to bop into the tower but it didn't turn out that way. Im guessing his suit wasn't up to par or didn't have the right resist so I ended up creaming him and about a dozen more times that day.
I also used dirty little tricks as a assassin. No buffbot mind you. Sometimes you can emote them catching theyre attention. The enemy then runs around in circles trying to spot you giving you a chance to line up in his path. Other times I would drop some gold and stand on it. Everyone knows you can't pick up loot that isn't your's but it's human nature to try anyways. And if they look tougher than me I would move to one side until his curiosity subsided. When the assassin's received caltrops I started having fun with those too. One of my biggest things for both stealther classes was to never stay in one spot. Kill your target and move to a completely different section of the map.
If you pair up with more stealthers it's even funner. 3 sb's (me included) and my roomies hunter had just finished a ganking raid and were standing around in a small group so we could all see eachother discussing where to move next when a scout walked right into the middle of us. That was probably the quickest I've ever seen someone die. Another time my roomie and I were patrolling and we saw a firby meandering around HT when the mids owned it. Roomie started putting shots in and of course the firby says "heh just a puny hunter, no biggie". Runs up and BAM!, PA. Most fighters continue chasing the hunter in hopes of atleast killing one but this guy panicked and ran all over until we killed him.
I never ran around with an extra set of poisoned weapons. My armor may only be leather (and I got to thinking about it, isn't the SB the ONLY leather wearer in Mid?) but I could still dump resists in and HP bonuses. Never even thought about the evade cap. I was a little jack in the box most of the time but even if it didn't work then I do things in true mid fashion....Take it in the face.
2. An assassin seeing an archer farther off is pointless is the archer can also see you.
They must have changed something since I left the game cause back then if I saw a archer at 500-1000 units then he was a dead man. I'll have to look up the formula for stealth but this meant my stealth was much better than his. In this case I'd line up in his path and cream him when he got close.
And never, never, in my time on the game have I ever been popped out of stealth by a archerer shooting me from stealth (or even unstealthed)
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I agree about the minst being seen cause when they take the path of the mistrel, they lose they're rogueness. It's fun to humor them though. I didn't know casters could take the actual stealth ability in champ levels though, I though they were just added skills. Which champ line does this fall under in the rogue section? Im curious cause my friends and I thought it'd be beyond funny to run around with a gank group of stealthing warlocks.
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Just FYI I found my old stats on my 3 stealthers. Proof that buffbots aren't needed
Spunknuri-midgard-galahad-shadowblade
Number of kills:
Albion
Hibernia
397
301
Albion
Hibernia
20
7
Albion
Hibernia
99
93
Boredomn-Midgard galahad-Hunter (sword)
Albion
Hibernia
118
139
Albion
Hibernia
0
0
Albion
Hibernia
2
0
Pluhh-Midgard-galahad-Hunter (spear) Thid warrior
Albion
Hibernia
251
108
Albion
Hibernia
10
2
Albion
Hibernia
109
52
I am not saying there are not ways to take out a tank. If I wanted a tank dead then yes there are tricks. Attack a wouned one. Attack one in combat with a mob. Group up with other stealthers. What I am saying is that as a solo assassin wihtout a buffbot targeting a fully healed tank and thinking you can take them out is improbable. It can be done, but you will loose far more often than not.
I have been poped and killed often from archers seeing me in stealth. There are factors. I have seen them and moved forward and they have seen me. They have shot arrows at me and I evade them and get to them. Those cases tend to be more in cases of low RR stealthers who do not train MoS or stealth that high. In other cases I can see a target start to move close and then I die the first shot. Sometimes it was more than 1 shot because of /assist. Then there are other cases where I am stealthed and moving from like a tower to a keep and I get hit reducing me almost 0 hits. I do /face and it says target is out of range. I then get hit again. Both hits doing around 1400 damage each. If I could only get that damage from my Eld I am sure eveyone would call for a nerf.