To be resticted to PvE or to only have consentual duels sort of defeats the purpose of playing a game online.
In this line, he states that the ONLY reason to play games online is PvP. If this were true, there wouldn't be any co-op play.
No, he was saying only having PvE defeats the purpose. Not the only purpose is PvP.
In example: Playing a rainbow six game with only co-op is pointless.
Offended? No. Tired? You betcha!! Carebear is a duragatory term. End of line. It's meant to degrade people who are favorable to a type of gameplay by labeling them weak or feminine. Not exactly the term that a "grown up" would use, is it?
It's spelled "Derogatory."
Now, as for it being derogatory. That's a whole other matter.
Let's explain this at the elementary levels, shall we?
The word carebear is taken after the cartoon involving what else but...Carebears!
Why were they called carebears? Because they were suppose to be good and fluffy and loved everything.
Why are PvE'ers called carebears? Because of their playstyle that wishes a more non-confrontational style of gameplay, over a confrontational one that demands a sense of player interaction that usually is confrontational.
Thus them being deemed as "Carebears".
Anyone who is offended by the aptly and accurately chosen word must be a very weak-willed and low self esteemed individual.
Now as for derogatory words not being something a grown up would never use: 1. Quit trying to prove your "manhood".
2. Get out of the amish colony.
3. I believe I already explained why only a feeble-minded person would mistake it for something derogative.
I stated what I felt. I play for act of playing. He plays for the status. You support him, which implies that you play for status also. I think my way is PvP and your way is PK. And you shouldn't try to command people as to how to identify themselves. It makes you look like a megalomaniac.
And your wrong. You know nothing of my playstyle.
And you're not?
Oh...I am indeed. I'm "trying to prove" your fallacy. I'm just not egotistical enough to try to prove how "good" I am.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
go easy on our man cynall he might be a little agrressive with his opinions but he is right in alot of ways. and for those of you who think pvp shud be moved off out of mmos into a different genre...get real. Ultima was probably the first large scale mmo to draw a big crowd, it included alot of pvp...infact id go as far as to say it was based on pvp with its titles and penaltys and such forth built into the game. so while me tom dick and harry where busy loving the game to the max with absolutely no complaints whatsoever (maybe lag) a few uptights complained to company about being killed...and geuss who they listened too...it wasnt me tom dick and harry who loved the game and didnt want to complain about how good the game was...oh no it was the uptights...instead of doing the descent thing and uninstalling the game to wait for a more pve based mmo...they screamed and screamed untill the company listened and capitulated and started a spiral of trammel changing events that have cursed every mmo ever since ...the end
Originally posted by Cylaan2 ooooow...skillbased mmorpgs> levelbased mmorpgs PVP-system....bleeeh !guildwars (a week) is this actually considered to be a MMorpg?
by anyone who knows what an MMO is....its actually not considered as one
Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage in Internet culture originated by Mike Godwin on Usenet in 1990 that states:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
There is a tradition of protocol in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread in which the comment was posted is over and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.
It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.
This also applies to Cylaan2.
.........Capitalist pig.
--------------------------------------- No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
Jesus, no one is saying that every game needs PvP. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that. And 'carebears' aren't people who just don't like PvP. No one is saying that everyone who doesn't like it is weak. Stop making shit up. No one is saying that MMOs aren't meant to be co-op. They are. That's why it is online. But PvP is just as important.
Again, a test of skill doesn't exactly mean it's a challenge. If I was to play a chess game with Kasparov, I would have my ass handed to me. I doubt it would be very challenging for Kasparov though.
If it tests your skill, it's a challenge. It wouldn't be challenging for Kasparov. It would be for you. He'd be a griefer and people would insult him in chess forums everywhere.
I did make the assumption that you had to "pwn n00b2" for an ego boost based on your reasons for playing PvP. I play for the game itself, not the rights to put on airs. I get more out of outsmarting an opponent than running around with more money, better equipment, or higher ranking... I'm about the play, and by your own admission, you're about the rewards.
No one plays for the sake of the game itself or just to play. You like those things because of what you get out them. You play because outsmarting the enemy feels good. It's fun to win, have the best stuff or have the most powerful guild.. Maybe you don't like all those things, but if you play online because you enjoy outsmarting other people, you're doing it for your ego.
No one's saying PvP is the only reason MMOs exist. Not sure anyone likes it all the time. But being resitricted to PvE in games like Everquest 2 does defeat the purpose of it being online. Other people are only there to grind and trade items with. They might get away with it, but the game's almost always suck. There's a reason almost every other MMO out there has it.
I stated what I felt. I play for act of playing. He plays for the status. You support him, which implies that you play for status also. I think my way is PvP and your way is PK. And you shouldn't try to command people as to how to identify themselves. It makes you look like a megalomaniac.
Again, no one plays to play just like no one eats to eat. You get something out of it. Playing for status doesn't make you a PKer. PKers play to piss off other people. PvPers play for the challenge and the status. You PvP to blend in with the other 100k people? Why bother playing online then?
Originally posted by Cylaan2 Okay, im not posting regulary on mmorpg.com but now i feel like postin something... at the moment i`m looking for a new mmorpg to play and to get me addicted to it but all of the ones i played are wack trash....really.....so let`s start (feel free to correct me) Asheron`s Call 1.... (playing time:years) beatufiul...the only MMORPG i considered to be good,of course only on darktide and before macroing/duping became the thing-to-do. Plenty of quests,plenty of charactertemplates because it is skillbased. probably the most dynamic and skillfull pvp-system a mmorpg has/had. Asherons Call 2.. (playing time: 2 month) junk.... everquest 1 (playing time: 3 month) (rallos zek) first of all im not referring to carebear servers...seriously how can so called "roleplayers" play on servers where they have not the possibility to play-freely ergo to attack anyone they want and not being stopped by weird magical barriers...the game itself...exceppt that the skill/level system is totally dull....except with buffs any character runs the same speed...wtf is that?..the pvp itself is alright...except there was a 6 lvl restriction which is stupid...but in comparison to AC1 there has to be a lvl restriction in pvp because unlike in AC it is actually impossible to kill someone 10 levels higher( in AC if you were good you could easily kill someone 20 levels higher or with enough skill and luck even 40-50) ...did i mention any character runs the same speed? Everquest 2 (playing time: 1 day) ...everquest 1 had pvp..why does EQ2 not have it so far?...Which leads me to the main question again..why would i play MMORPGs without pvp?....for the quests?...for the community..if i want community i usually talk to rl friends..!?...if i want to do pve and quests i play final fantasy....
city of heroes/villains (playing time: a couple of month) now with city of villains i thought this is gonna rock....no..it doesnt.. repititive ,unbalanced.....repititive... it`s nice to be a hero...unless everybody else is one too... the pvp is self is...well...pvp without unannounced raids...screw that...if i want to duel someone i play..nevermind..dueling sucks... conquer online... well...it`s free...
eve online(free trial) seems to be a nice game...the things i heard about that multithousand dollar scam seemed cool...but waiting days to increase my skills...bleh.....bleeeeh i say ! Dark age of camelot ( 2 month) Actually quite ALright...but..to slow...sloooooooooow...skillbased mmorpgs> levelbased mmorpgs PVP-system....bleeeh ! guildwars (a week) is this actually considered to be a MMorpg? Lineage2 id like to try this game..but it seems to have some unjustified airs and graces because it is the only mmorpg which doesnt offer a free trial...and the critics i read do not make me buy it seriously.. Lineage1,Legend of mir and other 2d mmorpgs if i want to play 2d mmorpgs i go get ultima online which is by far the best but...listen..2d to 2006 is like parkinson desease to pick-up sticks(mikado) Ragnarok online this is the korean scam game right? Rubies of eventide (2 days) could be a nice game!.....but seriously...those grafics and interface and combat style.. ....you better get ultima online... World of Warcraft(2 month) duh....well... Planetside (4 Month,planning to come back to it) rocks ! ...but not the genre of MMO`s im currently talking about Shadowbane... lol i remember when i saw screenshots of shadowbane 1 year before it was released or so..i was so hyped...and when i finally got it....lol...JUNK...pvp is unbelanced...the environment is empty and boring..i tried it again to see if they improved the game since its release.....nope..they didnt saga of ryzom Since im german and this game had a full german communitiy i thought i joined it...eventually it turned out that they were all nazis.....and by nazis i mean carebears ROSE,Graal, Knights Online embarrasing and ridiculous... Diablo2 > all of those wanna-be mmorpgs! have a nice day
*beautiful lady hands anarchyart a large envelope with an ornate wax seal*
*sound of crumpling paper as he opens the envelope*
No one is saying that everyone who doesn't like it is weak. Stop making shit up.
Do a search for the word "carebear" on these forums. Read as many of them as you can stomach and then tell me that no one uses the word "carebear" as an insult.
If it tests your skill, it's a challenge. It wouldn't be challenging for Kasparov. It would be for you. He'd be a griefer and people would insult him in chess forums everywhere.
Actually, If it was a game between me and Kasparov, it would be my fault becuase I would just have to know, you know? It wouldn't be griefing because, 1) I invited it, and 2) I would go over that game for monthes trying to see how I could have done it better and picking apart what he did in an effort to make myself a better player. loss is an opportunity to learn what NOT to do.
No one plays for the sake of the game itself or just to play. You like those things because of what you get out them. You play because outsmarting the enemy feels good. It's fun to win, have the best stuff or have the most powerful guild.. Maybe you don't like all those things, but if you play online because you enjoy outsmarting other people, you're doing it for your ego.
You're right that I get something out of playing. But that "something" is totally independant of whether I win or lose. It's a sense of being in the moment, and at the top of my game. It's "the zone" if you will, and I can be totally into it and still lose. I can appreciate the cleverness of an opponent that comes out of nowhere to defeat me. I can even admire it and learn from it. In fact, I'm thankfull for good opponents that can defeat me. They teach you not only how to play the game, but give you a reality check on your own abilities as well. I play to improve myself, not to convince myself that I'm better than anyone.
But being resitricted to PvE in games like Everquest 2 does defeat the purpose of it being online.
I don't agree. If the purpose is to be social, then PvE doesn't defeat the purpose. Not all games share the same goal in their design. <shrugs> just my two cents.
Again, no one plays to play just like no one eats to eat.
So people need to win in the same way that they need to eat? Sounds like a psychology thesis to me.
Playing for status doesn't make you a PKer. PKers play to piss off other people. PvPers play for the challenge and the status
Actually, I always thought that rankings were lame in any game. When I played FPS games, I always thought that it was better to just let your skills talk for you. If you're good, people will know it regardless of your rank. Same thing goes for RTS and ORPGs. Rankings are for people who have phone books full of smurf names.
Aldaron wrote:
Oh...I am indeed. I'm "trying to prove" your fallacy. I'm just not egotistical enough to try to prove how "good" I am.
Really?....
You again are twisting someones words to try to prove your own feeble-minded argument.
Therapy; you need it
Oh this is just adorable. Now we're resorting to grade-school tactics? Have some class boy. Ingenuity, that's what at least trying to insult someone is about. Not, "You're a moron." "Nuh uh. You are!"
Let's explain this at the elementary levels, shall we?
Anyone who is offended by the aptly and accurately chosen word must be a very weak-willed and low self esteemed individual.
I believe I already explained why only a feeble-minded person would mistake it for something derogative.
Nope, you're not trying to be better than anyone else. Not at all..... <sarcasm>
And your wrong. You know nothing of my playstyle.
You're right. I've never played against you at anything. Other than this pissing contest, that is. I can only draw conclusions based on the behavior that you show me. So far, all you've managed to do is call names while accusing others of being immature. Let's let the forum decide....
Almost 40 posts in and (not surprisingly) no one has realized that this was a very successful attempt by the OP to once again get PvEers and PVPers clawing at each other's throats.
Why hasn't the OP replied to any posts? Because he's sitting back laughing at what he knew would happen.
Nope, you're not trying to be better than anyone else. Not at all..... <sarcasm>
Hrm...So my calling you out at putting forth "feeble-minded" arguments now seems to make me an egomaniac that is trying to prove something?
Interesting...Rather fallacious. But I'll give you a cookie for at least being amusing.
You're right. I've never played against you at anything. Other than this pissing contest, that is. I can only draw conclusions based on the behavior that you show me. So far, all you've managed to do is call names while accusing others of being immature. Let's let the forum decide....
"Grown man"
"Overgrown child"
Cute...Not sure what this has to do with my playstyle. Although I still see your trying to prove something.
Your info says your 31, but yet that seems highly doubtful considering these continual sophmoric tactics of yours.
First it's, "I'm a grown man! Better recognize!"
Now it's, "Hey...Lets further show my inability to have a grown up debate and act like a callow child by posting a poll to see who thinks who has real balls!"
Honestly...Your making an ass out of yourself. Just stop.
It's a message board, quit trying to prove your some big tough man, and that I am some small immature child.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Originally posted by darquenblade Almost 40 posts in and (not surprisingly) no one has realized that this was a very successful attempt by the OP to once again get PvEers and PVPers clawing at each other's throats. Why hasn't the OP replied to any posts? Because he's sitting back laughing at what he knew would happen.
Here's my guess. The OP thought he was posting a message in a forum where intelligent gamers gather to share information and ideas. When he discovered that instead there were crash test dummies replying to his (excellent) video game review, he laughed and hit the back button of his browser, never to return.
Everyone, repeat after me and maybe he'll come back: I am a jelly doughnut.
It was "grown up" and "overgrown child". I'm giving you the benifit of the doubt that you're technically an adult.
First it's, "I'm a grown man! Better recognize!"
hahahahahahahaha
Funny, I'm being lectured on ebonics by a white boy. Now I've seen it all.
Now it's, "Hey...Lets further show my inability to have a grown up debate and act like a callow child by posting a poll to see who thinks who has real balls!"
Nah, I left it up to the board. It isn't accurate, since you could have a bunch of smurf accounts here. That's doubtful because of your post count, but possible none the less. Public opinion really never solved anything, it just gives you outside perspective on the conversation.
And if it had gone the other way, it would have amused me personally. Useless, but fun.
It's a message board, quit trying to prove your some big tough man, and that I am some small immature child.
It passes the time. Besides, I'm sick to death of the PKers whining about carebears whining. I don't really hear that many carebears whining TBH. This causes some confusion on my part. Guess I'm just "feeble minded". Seriously, you came out with the name calling.
And when did I say I was "big" and "tough"? Being grown and being a badass are two different things in my book. Your mileage may vary.
Your info says your 31, but yet that seems highly doubtful considering these continual sophmoric tactics of yours.
When you write, you have to keep your audience in mind. I just wanted to speak a language I knew you would understand. Being "sophmoric" can also help shake the person you're talking too up enough to make them rethink their approach. You want to move a Missouri mule, you have to get his attention first.
Originally posted by Hifructose pvp is coming to EQ2 in a month
A little late for that. That alone won't save that game.
And Aldaron, don't bother with Jimmy. Not sure what the hell's wrong with that guy, but I'd guess that it's something big. He seems to just randomly come to conclusions that have nothing to do with what anyone's talking about.
Anyone remember what the topic was? Or, if we're sticking to flames, maybe we should come up with a subject to yell about. When it comes down to arguements on ebonics, it's time to change the subject. Everyone's saying they like PvP, so if we stick with this someone's going to need to take the opposing side and be violently opposed to any PvP at all.
Comments
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
go easy on our man cynall he might be a little agrressive with his opinions but he is right in alot of ways. and for those of you who think pvp shud be moved off out of mmos into a different genre...get real. Ultima was probably the first large scale mmo to draw a big crowd, it included alot of pvp...infact id go as far as to say it was based on pvp with its titles and penaltys and such forth built into the game. so while me tom dick and harry where busy loving the game to the max with absolutely no complaints whatsoever (maybe lag) a few uptights complained to company about being killed...and geuss who they listened too...it wasnt me tom dick and harry who loved the game and didnt want to complain about how good the game was...oh no it was the uptights...instead of doing the descent thing and uninstalling the game to wait for a more pve based mmo...they screamed and screamed untill the company listened and capitulated and started a spiral of trammel changing events that have cursed every mmo ever since ...the end
C
by anyone who knows what an MMO is....its actually not considered as one
Godwin's Law
Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage in Internet culture originated by Mike Godwin on Usenet in 1990 that states:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
There is a tradition of protocol in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread in which the comment was posted is over and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.
It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.
This also applies to Cylaan2.
.........Capitalist pig.
---------------------------------------
No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
Jesus, no one is saying that every game needs PvP. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that. And 'carebears' aren't people who just don't like PvP. No one is saying that everyone who doesn't like it is weak. Stop making shit up. No one is saying that MMOs aren't meant to be co-op. They are. That's why it is online. But PvP is just as important.
If it tests your skill, it's a challenge. It wouldn't be challenging for Kasparov. It would be for you. He'd be a griefer and people would insult him in chess forums everywhere.
No one plays for the sake of the game itself or just to play. You like those things because of what you get out them. You play because outsmarting the enemy feels good. It's fun to win, have the best stuff or have the most powerful guild.. Maybe you don't like all those things, but if you play online because you enjoy outsmarting other people, you're doing it for your ego.
No one's saying PvP is the only reason MMOs exist. Not sure anyone likes it all the time. But being resitricted to PvE in games like Everquest 2 does defeat the purpose of it being online. Other people are only there to grind and trade items with. They might get away with it, but the game's almost always suck. There's a reason almost every other MMO out there has it.
Again, no one plays to play just like no one eats to eat. You get something out of it. Playing for status doesn't make you a PKer. PKers play to piss off other people. PvPers play for the challenge and the status. You PvP to blend in with the other 100k people? Why bother playing online then?
A** Still Raw From Your Last SWG Subscription? Come join us at RLMMO.com
*beautiful lady hands anarchyart a large envelope with an ornate wax seal*
*sound of crumpling paper as he opens the envelope*
"And the winner for post of the year goes to...."
Bissrok wrote:
No one is saying that everyone who doesn't like it is weak. Stop making shit up.
Do a search for the word "carebear" on these forums. Read as many of them as you can stomach and then tell me that no one uses the word "carebear" as an insult.
If it tests your skill, it's a challenge. It wouldn't be challenging for Kasparov. It would be for you. He'd be a griefer and people would insult him in chess forums everywhere.
Actually, If it was a game between me and Kasparov, it would be my fault becuase I would just have to know, you know? It wouldn't be griefing because, 1) I invited it, and 2) I would go over that game for monthes trying to see how I could have done it better and picking apart what he did in an effort to make myself a better player. loss is an opportunity to learn what NOT to do.
No one plays for the sake of the game itself or just to play. You like those things because of what you get out them. You play because outsmarting the enemy feels good. It's fun to win, have the best stuff or have the most powerful guild.. Maybe you don't like all those things, but if you play online because you enjoy outsmarting other people, you're doing it for your ego.
You're right that I get something out of playing. But that "something" is totally independant of whether I win or lose. It's a sense of being in the moment, and at the top of my game. It's "the zone" if you will, and I can be totally into it and still lose. I can appreciate the cleverness of an opponent that comes out of nowhere to defeat me. I can even admire it and learn from it. In fact, I'm thankfull for good opponents that can defeat me. They teach you not only how to play the game, but give you a reality check on your own abilities as well. I play to improve myself, not to convince myself that I'm better than anyone.
But being resitricted to PvE in games like Everquest 2 does defeat the purpose of it being online.
I don't agree. If the purpose is to be social, then PvE doesn't defeat the purpose. Not all games share the same goal in their design. <shrugs> just my two cents.
Again, no one plays to play just like no one eats to eat.
So people need to win in the same way that they need to eat? Sounds like a psychology thesis to me.
Playing for status doesn't make you a PKer. PKers play to piss off other people. PvPers play for the challenge and the status
Actually, I always thought that rankings were lame in any game. When I played FPS games, I always thought that it was better to just let your skills talk for you. If you're good, people will know it regardless of your rank. Same thing goes for RTS and ORPGs. Rankings are for people who have phone books full of smurf names.
Aldaron wrote:
Oh...I am indeed. I'm "trying to prove" your fallacy. I'm just not egotistical enough to try to prove how "good" I am.
Really?....
You again are twisting someones words to try to prove your own feeble-minded argument.
Therapy; you need it
Oh this is just adorable. Now we're resorting to grade-school tactics? Have some class boy. Ingenuity, that's what at least trying to insult someone is about. Not, "You're a moron." "Nuh uh. You are!"
Let's explain this at the elementary levels, shall we?
Anyone who is offended by the aptly and accurately chosen word must be a very weak-willed and low self esteemed individual.
I believe I already explained why only a feeble-minded person would mistake it for something derogative.
Nope, you're not trying to be better than anyone else. Not at all..... <sarcasm>
And your wrong. You know nothing of my playstyle.
You're right. I've never played against you at anything. Other than this pissing contest, that is. I can only draw conclusions based on the behavior that you show me. So far, all you've managed to do is call names while accusing others of being immature. Let's let the forum decide....
Meant to put this on my last post..... sorry....
Almost 40 posts in and (not surprisingly) no one has realized that this was a very successful attempt by the OP to once again get PvEers and PVPers clawing at each other's throats.
Why hasn't the OP replied to any posts? Because he's sitting back laughing at what he knew would happen.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Here's my guess. The OP thought he was posting a message in a forum where intelligent gamers gather to share information and ideas. When he discovered that instead there were crash test dummies replying to his (excellent) video game review, he laughed and hit the back button of his browser, never to return.
Everyone, repeat after me and maybe he'll come back: I am a jelly doughnut.
It was "grown up" and "overgrown child". I'm giving you the benifit of the doubt that you're technically an adult.
First it's, "I'm a grown man! Better recognize!"
hahahahahahahaha
Funny, I'm being lectured on ebonics by a white boy. Now I've seen it all.
Now it's, "Hey...Lets further show my inability to have a grown up debate and act like a callow child by posting a poll to see who thinks who has real balls!"
Nah, I left it up to the board. It isn't accurate, since you could have a bunch of smurf accounts here. That's doubtful because of your post count, but possible none the less. Public opinion really never solved anything, it just gives you outside perspective on the conversation.
And if it had gone the other way, it would have amused me personally. Useless, but fun.
It's a message board, quit trying to prove your some big tough man, and that I am some small immature child.
It passes the time. Besides, I'm sick to death of the PKers whining about carebears whining. I don't really hear that many carebears whining TBH. This causes some confusion on my part. Guess I'm just "feeble minded". Seriously, you came out with the name calling.
And when did I say I was "big" and "tough"? Being grown and being a badass are two different things in my book. Your mileage may vary.
Your info says your 31, but yet that seems highly doubtful considering these continual sophmoric tactics of yours.
When you write, you have to keep your audience in mind. I just wanted to speak a language I knew you would understand. Being "sophmoric" can also help shake the person you're talking too up enough to make them rethink their approach. You want to move a Missouri mule, you have to get his attention first.
pvp is coming to EQ2 in a month
A little late for that. That alone won't save that game.
And Aldaron, don't bother with Jimmy. Not sure what the hell's wrong with that guy, but I'd guess that it's something big. He seems to just randomly come to conclusions that have nothing to do with what anyone's talking about.
Anyone remember what the topic was? Or, if we're sticking to flames, maybe we should come up with a subject to yell about. When it comes down to arguements on ebonics, it's time to change the subject. Everyone's saying they like PvP, so if we stick with this someone's going to need to take the opposing side and be violently opposed to any PvP at all.
A** Still Raw From Your Last SWG Subscription? Come join us at RLMMO.com