A player who had worked very hard the past 2-3 years leveling 2 99 characters and 1 99 transcendant class had his account banned. He was always legitimate and is well loved by 2 guilds on 2 different servers (because you can change servers). He was gathering items on his 99 transcendant class and weird things were happening near him and he told this to his guild. A person nearby asked him if he did it and he said no. If it was a hidden GM that came by every now and then, the GM did not say anything. The GM did not ask anything. The rumor that GMs teleport you to a room to observe your actions did not occur. Instead of recieving a screen to show you've been disconnected, this person was taken directly to the login screen. He tried to log in and it said the account was blocked by GMs. The GMs later said they did it because they felt he was using a 3rd party program. For the amount of time he has put into that character many people know this is not the case. Just because he didn't type words to talk to invisible strange occurances does not mean he was using a 3rd party program. His guild leader confirmed that he was talking to the guild at the time directly before his disconnection. He was on 50% tax also, so if the GMs truly intend to state he was using a 3rd party program then, this guild that is against 3rd party programs will and should be banned as well.
Now, GMs can have regular accounts in the game. GMs can join guilds and I'm sure have rivalries. This reeks of maliciousness on the part of this particular GM. Also, because GMs can join guilds they can easily have their guild members stick up for their actions making them seem legitimate. The player had just recently reached 99 on his Trans and was to get an interview by the GMs for his good job but now this can't happen since the GMs refuse to change this deplorable act.
This is a true incendent and must be known. Hopefully, something can be done to right this wrong.
The fact that the company that runs this game has a rating of F by the Better Business Bureau does not give me much hope.
Well, after many tries to plead to the will of the GMs, the few people that were sticking up for this good person all got their accounts banned. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Below is the response on the Free BBS forums.
| okay here's what to do, take this and c&p it into the gm mailing service, include the name(s) and username. he might get his account reinstated |
| Quatre |
Did you know you can report these kinds of things to the US Better business bureau? |
 |
Dear LAP, please be aware that all ill mannered reports are conducted on a case-by-case basis. There is no "set" method of testing, as each situation is unique. We understand that some players may not be fluent in English, or do not want to talk to others, so we do not use this as the sole basis for investigation. Absolutely no action can be taken against an account without being completely certain that the account was in violation of the in-game rules.
Please be aware the the GM Team is strictly prohibited from suspending accounts based on favoritism or personal bias. This is to insure that quality of services is up to par, and there is considerable oversight conducted.
Thank you and your guildmates for your understanding of this situation.
iRO GM Team
Gravity Interactive, Inc. |
| LosAngelesPl |
Oh, believe me we will bring this up with the Better Business Bureau if this does not get resolved and fast. The guildmates of two servers are extremely unhappy with this situation. |
| Stunt |
Dear IRO-GM,
Everything you said just now, I don't think it helped.
Thank you,
iRO Chaos
Scriptz |
| The___cheese |
There are other third party programs besides bots. |
| The___cheese |
And what exactly do you think the BBB is going to do exactly? |
| LosAngelesPl |
I guess you are right. We will still do it. We can boycott, sign petitions, stop playing, go to all the RO booths at game show, visit the offices, talk to the GMs face to face. The same things you can do when any injustice takes place. What will it do? Who knows, but one thing is for sure, if people don't act when injustices take place then the injustices of the future will be far worse. |
| Stunt |
Why don't someone send a complaint to Gravity themselves if you really weren't using a third-party program? |
| LosAngelesPl |
We have been and are sending complaints to Gravity but we are getting canned responses. This reeks of maliciousness and is something that needs to be brought out in the open. We will make this injustice known where ever we can until the issue is resolved. Phobos that rating is definately well deserved at this point. |
|
DearLAP, please be aware that the emails you sent were personally responded to and read by a real member of the GM Team. Please also be aware that the information from the BBB is from 2003 and cannot be considered current and that the End User license agreement clearly states the penalties and conditions of third-party program use. This was not maliciously conducted.
Thank you for understanding this
iRO GM Team
Gravity Interactive, Inc. |
| Disappointed |
I'm sure the real members of your GM Team are using canned responses. I am aware of the BBB rating and I don't care if it's from 2003 or not, from what we are experiencing, it still applies. We are aware of what the agreement states and I tell you, that your GMs methods of trying to determine if someone is using a 3rd Party Program are extremely flawed and only reveal heinous intent. |
| Disappointed |
You can easily stand behind your accusation that a person used a 3rd Party Program because in actuality everyone does. We all use the Operating Systems installed on our computers that someone other than Gravity programed. How can you be proven wrong when you don't have the evidence to prove you are right? The two guilds that are extremely unhappy about this are against all manner of cheating. We will not back down. |
| Leon |
Back down from what? Sorry, i'm all over the player's rights but i don't exactly feel RO trembling under your protests. I'm not trying to discourage you though, i really want Gravity to change some aspects to the game to make it more enjoyable and fair (not to mention it would attract more customers). Good luck in your crusade, but i highly doubt it will change anything. Many have tried before, few have succeeded... ;__; |
| angel |
always take screen shot if anything funny or weird is happening... i believe GMs when they say the user is using 3rd party program. remember 3rd party program includes ro walkers, that doesnt mean GMs are refering to that specific one. |
| XYZ |
The GMs never gave this player a chance to speak for himself. Frankly it is absurd to think anyone would bot a 99 Transcendant character shortly before his GM interview, and I hope GMs don't think so lowly of such a player. The methods the GMs use to distinguish legit players from botters and/or offensive players are too indiscriminate. Moreover a recent Kafra survey was conducted here and if anything it only serves to reinforce the BBB results. |
| XYZ |
If they cared any about their most dedicated players, they should not only carefully review the case and unban his account but also take into account what their subscribers have to say regarding the poor quality of GM service, the inconsistencies in carrying out their own policies, their manners in treating customers, etc. |
| LAP |
"DearLAP, please be aware that the emails you sent were personally responded to and read by a real member of the GM Team." This proves that you lie to suit your needs and that you really don't care because if you checked you would find that I personally had not sent any emails but others are. For shame. |
| Leon |
G A S P!! Wow, how are GMs going to respond to THAT one? Lap, you really caught them in a tough lie. |
| KazuoShirase |
Unfair ban/suspension? Hop on the bandwagon.
I was suspended, along with four of my friends, for "Mob Training." That night, we only dealt with one huge mob, and it was a natural spawn. And somehow, I don't think the GMs can read a "mob training" report, come to us, and expell us all within 20 seconds, where it takes at least three hours to respond to any emails I send.
I, personally, am starting to think the GMs don't give two shits about what they do to legit players. |
| KazuoShirase |
I had a nice long thread with the whole story, but the GMs saw fit to squelch my complaints. |
| Superzon |
Sure, the GM reviewing this board may not have malicious acts, but can you TRULY say that on behalf of your whole team? This is why I am not part of the game anymore, and only post on the BBS. The GMs lack the respect and proffesionalism of even... WoW.
"Thank you for understanding this
iRO GM Team
Gravity Interactive, Inc. "
|
| Superzon |
That's crap. You don't know we've understood it, so don't try your lame crap, about trying to make us be "mannerful" and pretend to understand it and just leave it alone!
TAKE A LOOK AT THE SURVEY! |
| Leon |
I notice the BBS is about 10 times less active than it was a few months ago... Does that mean a lot of the smart RO players all left? (Like you, Superzon) |
| Leon |
Why the hell did i say smart players? I meant to say hardcore... Lol |
| The___cheese |
Lol, It does seem a whole lot less active, And I barely ever post anymore. |
| MrScoo |
The majority of people I know on RO only come to this site to pay for RO >> |
| [Sun Tzu] |
How do you know that this person didn't use a third party program? Just because he said he didn't? Isn't it more likely that one person(Who has two lvl 99's and a 99 trans) is going to lie about what he did than a massive conspiracy from the GM team? Get real.
|
| [Sun Tzu] |
Also, you could stop playing, they would lose what? $12-$13 per month from you leaving? Also, your petitions won't a thing because who do you intend to read them? About protesting at their booths, they can make you leave the RO booths if you are causing a "disturbance". |
| Leon |
Sun Tzu has a point, but i think LAP and Superzon do as well. Both sides of this arguement are completely valid... I mean, there's no question that RO is far from having the most legit players out there, but this one guy COULD be lying. But even if he is lying, at least a lot of issues with the iRO Gravity team are re-surfacing... issues that NEED to be addressed. |
| Jamie |
(*The character limit sucks*)
I've known the player in question for years through his original guild. If there was ever any one single hardworking and legitimate player it is him. The fact you've banned him for 3rd party only goes to show that your so-called bot detection methods are flawed. Yes of course, there's the old saying "you never truly know someone...." but I swear... in this case, what I do know, is you're wrong.
cont...
|
| Jamie |
What's irritating me is how you continously state the methods will 100% certify that someone is a bot. Are you telling us there has never been an innocent banned? Ever? There's countless cases of this occuring and cases where the person initally accused has gotten his/her account reinstated. What does this mean? You were wrong? So couldn't you be wrong here? because I'm telling you, you are.
cont.. |
| Ro(/)eo |
all of you grow up, boo hoo the world is unfair omg nuuuu can it really be. gms are there for a reason... so you think you may have been victimised tuff luck. im sick of hearing about *so called* i wasnt botting or my friend wasnt botting, you friend should deal with it him or herself. what? we are supposed to defend your friend because you say so, no sorry keep it off the bbs and deal with the gms via email or phone them or visit them but for pitys sake stop moaning on the bbs. |
| Ro(/)eo |
p.s. i dont care if your a paying customer and *deserve the right* to complain, there are proper channels as stated by the gms SOOOOO many times email them, and you will get a response as soon as it is possible for the gm team to reply. have some patience /swt |
| Jamie |
Everyone knows the method. If I made a trial account, stuck a novie on a map, sent in report that this novie was botting, then completely ignored the GM while he "tested" me while I played manually and legitmately, I'd be banned, end of story. Now it doesn't take a genious to understand there will always be occasion where disregard to a GM's actions will be out of a players hands, not because they're botting
cont.. |
| Jamie |
maybe they lag, a spike, the isp goes a(w)ol, maybe there's a friggin fire in the house.. it happens. THERE IS NO PERFECT BOT DETECTION METHOD AND YOU CAN BE WRONG.
As for your comments on GM's and they're prohibition on taking action without proper reason, come off it. GM's come and go, why is that? I'm sure your well aware of past and present reports about certain GM's and harassment. Technology isn't perfect nor are people, you rely on both, as everyone else does.
cont.. |
| Ro(/)eo |
this is the best system we have, make use of it, got better suggestions go ahead list them.
the way i see it you have 3 options 1. keep things the way they are and rely on the people who look after our interests (gms) 2. get RODefender with nprotect 3.use a 3 strikes and your out policy. personally im happy with the gms they have never wronged me or anyone i know and i been playing for 2 years and know alot of people... |
| Ro(/)eo |
if you lag get a spike then do a tracert send that to them via email, might help. if you have a fire in your house when you get banned then iro is the least of your problems. |
| Jamie |
Instead of telling us how you can't be wrong, how about a "Ok, we'll take a thorough look into it, because yes, there have been occurencesi n the past, where we we're wrong"
end. |
| Jamie |
Romeo.. romeo... where art thou... SHUT THE HELL UP.
The inital action was taken by theu ser through the appropriate channels, the response was insufficient and basically put a close to it based on... nothing. With that the people who "care" are doing what they can, posting publicly, for all the good it will do, because we can. |
| theory |
Was your friends client modified in any way? I've heard of people changing little, simple, harmless seeming things on their clients, and I'm curious if these are the things being detected by GM's thus the player being banned. |
| Jamie |
Your coming here whinging about doing what little we can to help a friend, why? You dont care? Im sick of hearing "I dont care and i dont know anything about the situation, but im coming to come in here like a friggin troll and troll for england"
This isn't your problem, and you're not mine, why, why god why, shoo. |
| Ro(/)eo |
lol poor lil jamie, wanna go run to mommy and cry over the concept of a different opinion to yours?
people like you who do nothing all day cept defend those who should to be honest defend themselves makes my seriously doubt the judgement of the *would be defenders of right and wrong*. |
| Ro(/)eo |
the person who noticed the strange occurences who *apparently* was speaking to the guild, can ask for a screenshot as proof that he mentioned the strange things and therefore been active and *possibly* not botting during the ban. quit being so self-righteous. |
| Sarah |
Your happy with the GM's? Bully for you. How you feel about the Gm's and because you haven't been afflicted with any ill-treatment is neither here nor there. I personally have had no quarrels with a GM and they havent wronged me, I've been playing 3 years. BUT Thats god damn irrelevant. |
| Jamie |
Heh, I was genuinely going to respectfully reply about your comments on suggestions, yes of course we can look at other routes. Then I read the first line of your recent post. Go run too mummy? If you want to debate the point atleast pretend your not a god damn child. Defend myself, what? You lost me there. |
| OMG |
hmm...
From everything that has been said on this post, NOWHERE has any proof been offered to anyone that this person wasnt botting, I think he got what he deserved because if he wasnt botting he COULD prove that he didnt or others could prove it going by what has been said in the original post. People who jump on the bandwagon at the mere thought that someone must have been wrong becuase they posted on the bbs is obsurd. |
| OMG |
Also the people to prove it to are the GM's not the players. |
| Jamie |
Nearly as absurd as those jumping in on the "The Gm's banned him, they must be right" bandwagon.
|
Rosuck
Member Posts: 11
Comments
Here is another example of an unrightful suspension. Please note that those forums the GMs converse on their normal accounts trying to do damage control. Of course, they defend the heinous GMs decisions. In this instance, the person defending the GMs automatically labels anyone who let's it be known they had been treated unfairly on the forums is a liar.
Now Dave says all botters could complain and cause an uproar but it is more likely that the criminal will accept the fate they deserve more than a person who is innocent and desperately trying to prove their innocence any way they can.
The GMs want the community to be a "bright and happy" place but how can they expect that kind of portrayal if they are practically mugging innoncent customers of their time and cash with these bans?
Not 10 minutes after this was posted was it deleted from the forums.