Originally posted by HJ-Girasol I'm going to have to agree with Razu. I've run phpbb and vBulletin boards in the past, so I do understand where most people have problems with the Simu boards. However, whether you want to read one thread, or want to read them all, Simu boards are great for both (although much more so for the latter). I personally have all my posts collapsed, and then if I am just reading one thread, I expand the posts necessary. The forum always hides all the posts that were before the last one you read, so if you want a clean slate, just go to the last page. This is good, as Razu said - you can more easily pick up where you last left off...whereas, in threaded forums, if there is no "bumpage" going on, a thread is lost to obscurity. Thus, people talk about the same things every other week, because no one knows about the lost threads. On Simu boards, we have cyclical topics only about once every six months to a year! Or discussion goes on for that long.
I've been trying for the past week to use the Simu forums and I've done all the sort by title, start collapsed stuff and they're still a nightmare for me.
First of all sort by title sounds good since it puts all the replies under the main thread and collapsing makes the initial page easier to read. However, if you're new to the boards and you manage to figure out those tricks you still have pages of threads to sort through (71 pages under one section if I remember correctly). In those pages of messages some of them are topics that haven't been active for 2+ years now so I have to scan down the post date column to figure out whats current and whats not.
So once I do that, and after my initial visit the board then marks everything as read so I don't have to see those old messages any more, I come back and there are new messages and new replies to old threads etc. Some of those replies are to threads that I haven't read the initial message so I'm not sure what they're talking about. If it's a topic I'm interested in I have to, once again make the board show me all topics read or not, sort by topic and scan through page after page of topics until I find the one I'm looking for so I can read through the thread. Usually I've gotten frustrated or I have some other work that needs doing so I give up long before this point.
All in all the experience most reminded me of the old days of BBS and CompuServe message boards and I kept longing for the third party app I had for both that would suck down all messages in a group and thread them for me.
The most important factor though is what Shroom Mage pointed out above, the forums are daunting for a newcomer so most won't even bother to try and take the time to get used to them.
Everything else you can pretty much do whatever with, but I leave mine expanded, it's a lot easier to navigate them, and when you push the read all new messages, it will load by subject, and then the order they were actually written..
I signed up to the forums there in September because I really liked the look of the game. I made a couple of posts but I have yet to discover if anyone ever replied or where the posts went in the first place! Forum heaven I think
The forums at Play.net bite. I stopped browsing them months ago because I got sick of the layout. Now I come here to see what's new. It's a shame, really, since I can't stand being bombarded with offers to buy in-game currency; a practice I find detestable.
We were all "used to" slicing our own bread from a loaf, once upon a time. We PREFER the pre-sliced kind though. It just makes more sense.
Threaded posts, sorted by topics are easier to use - even if that lowers the entry fee for the riff-raff.
EDIT: Search is my #1 gripe about Play.net boards. Finding out what information you are looking for is like weeding through a highly disorganized filing system. There are tabs to tell you what you might find in a folder, but good luck getting the information you need. Also, people change the subject (or simply start a new one) on their message header while responding to another topic! As if it's not hard enough for people to follow a conversation. Sheesh.
I've heard about HJ not so long ago, but I also keep going to other forums to read about the news and information.
I wouldn't call the forums horrible, but they are lacking.
- I want to search before I start asking questions ? Sorry no can do. But I can browse them manually, in mess sorted by some single field - come on... Finding your own posts is a poor experience, if you don't participate on the boards on a daily basis.
- I want to reedit my post, to fix spelling/add someting ? Sorry, no can do either.
- PM ? naah..
- email notification ? ahah ...
- I wanna see the stuff grouped by thread ? Well, there's a workaround mentioned earlier (by subject), but with a catch - it ignores the dates completely.
Newsgroups (those that current "generation" of computer users have often no clue about) with decent (or any for that matter) reader have far better functionality and usability. And they are far older than the whole play.net
Sorry, but "getting used to something" is just an excuse. Don't use it to explain yourself. Add the basics (real threading that respects the date, and search) - as an option. Noone is asking for something impossible.
That my opinion. Harsh, but honest.
OTOH, the game you're developing seems decent. Hope it turns this way
Ok.. since nobody seems to see the Good in the Simutronics forum layout, I'll explain.
With threaded forums, it's often hard to tell if I've read a thread OR if something new has been added since I last read a thread. I have found myself re-reading threads I've read some time in the past... and I know there are plenty of times I have missed out on comments on some interesting thread because I thought I had already read it.
With Simu's forums, you never miss a post. The idea of having the boards split out into many topics is so I only have to watch what I'm interested in, but I'll see every new post in that topic. Once read, it disappears (though I can bring it back if I want). For forum junkies like me who read a lot of different forums, this can be a really nice timesaver. I don't have to try to recall everything - have I read this thread yet?
Sure Simu's forums could use improvement, but they're not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. Take it from somebody who used their forums regularly for over 5 years.
Originally posted by Tyveil With threaded forums, it's often hard to tell if I've read a thread OR if something new has been added since I last read a thread. I have found myself re-reading threads I've read some time in the past... and I know there are plenty of times I have missed out on comments on some interesting thread because I thought I had already read it.
Actually, many standard-style forums also have a system to mark threads as being new or unread AND have all the features lacking in the HJ forums.
Yes but they won't tell you how far you've read into that thread (how many new messages their are). It's still possible (and easy) to miss messages, espescially if you haven't visited the board for days or weeks. It's impossible to miss a message on Simu's board unless you just don't want to read it.
It's impossible to miss a message on Simu's board unless you just don't want to read it.
Actually it's not. If there is one thread under a topic that gets very active it's possible other threads get pushed to the second or even the third page and you miss them.
This is why threaded is easier for most people. I can see a page full of threads and most modern boards will move those with new posts to the top and a lot of boards will mark those with a lot of activity as well.
Once I got the Play.Net boards setup, with help from someone here, I found them usable as long as I keep up. The problem is that I've been busy this past week and haven't had a chance to go to those boards so I'm almost dreading going back and trying to figure out what's going on again. Sure the board will show me only the messages I haven't read but I have to go back and try and find the beginning of the topic and work my way through it.
Originally posted by Tyveil Yes but they won't tell you how far you've read into that thread (how many new messages their are). It's still possible (and easy) to miss messages, espescially if you haven't visited the board for days or weeks. It's impossible to miss a message on Simu's board unless you just don't want to read it.
Of course they will tell you. For example - ubbthreads supports both flat and threaded message view. Every new thread and message since your last visit is marked.
Similary on Invision (or any other good) boards - flat mode and mixed are available as well.
Both take you to the first new messages in threads since your last visit on boards. In ordered, logical fashion. With all the relevant other posts clearly visible, and if you wish so - listed below.
Every self respecting forums provide few types (digest, instant, delayed) of email notifications (try to miss a message with that), as well as thread subscriptions, that you can even group into different folders.
You can't miss a reply on other boards as well, unless you just don't want to read it.
Comments
I've never been a gigantic forum user, and I don't care too much how they work or what they look like, or how much they suck.
It's just another way to talk to other people.
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
I've been trying for the past week to use the Simu forums and I've done all the sort by title, start collapsed stuff and they're still a nightmare for me.
First of all sort by title sounds good since it puts all the replies under the main thread and collapsing makes the initial page easier to read. However, if you're new to the boards and you manage to figure out those tricks you still have pages of threads to sort through (71 pages under one section if I remember correctly). In those pages of messages some of them are topics that haven't been active for 2+ years now so I have to scan down the post date column to figure out whats current and whats not.
So once I do that, and after my initial visit the board then marks everything as read so I don't have to see those old messages any more, I come back and there are new messages and new replies to old threads etc. Some of those replies are to threads that I haven't read the initial message so I'm not sure what they're talking about. If it's a topic I'm interested in I have to, once again make the board show me all topics read or not, sort by topic and scan through page after page of topics until I find the one I'm looking for so I can read through the thread. Usually I've gotten frustrated or I have some other work that needs doing so I give up long before this point.
All in all the experience most reminded me of the old days of BBS and CompuServe message boards and I kept longing for the third party app I had for both that would suck down all messages in a group and thread them for me.
The most important factor though is what Shroom Mage pointed out above, the forums are daunting for a newcomer so most won't even bother to try and take the time to get used to them.
Try setting them up like this:
Default Sort Order: Number, Descending
Default View Filters: (all three) All
Posts Per Page: (I have this set to 50)
Everything else you can pretty much do whatever with, but I leave mine expanded, it's a lot easier to navigate them, and when you push the read all new messages, it will load by subject, and then the order they were actually written..
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
The forums at Play.net bite. I stopped browsing them months ago because I got sick of the layout. Now I come here to see what's new. It's a shame, really, since I can't stand being bombarded with offers to buy in-game currency; a practice I find detestable.
We were all "used to" slicing our own bread from a loaf, once upon a time. We PREFER the pre-sliced kind though. It just makes more sense.
Threaded posts, sorted by topics are easier to use - even if that lowers the entry fee for the riff-raff.
EDIT: Search is my #1 gripe about Play.net boards. Finding out what information you are looking for is like weeding through a highly disorganized filing system. There are tabs to tell you what you might find in a folder, but good luck getting the information you need. Also, people change the subject (or simply start a new one) on their message header while responding to another topic! As if it's not hard enough for people to follow a conversation. Sheesh.
I've heard about HJ not so long ago, but I also keep going to other forums to read about the news and information.
I wouldn't call the forums horrible, but they are lacking.
- I want to search before I start asking questions ? Sorry no can do. But I can browse them manually, in mess sorted by some single field - come on... Finding your own posts is a poor experience, if you don't participate on the boards on a daily basis.
- I want to reedit my post, to fix spelling/add someting ? Sorry, no can do either.
- PM ? naah..
- email notification ? ahah ...
- I wanna see the stuff grouped by thread ? Well, there's a workaround mentioned earlier (by subject), but with a catch - it ignores the dates completely.
Newsgroups (those that current "generation" of computer users have often no clue about) with decent (or any for that matter) reader have far better functionality and usability. And they are far older than the whole play.net
Sorry, but "getting used to something" is just an excuse. Don't use it to explain yourself. Add the basics (real threading that respects the date, and search) - as an option. Noone is asking for something impossible.
That my opinion. Harsh, but honest.
OTOH, the game you're developing seems decent. Hope it turns this way
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DStuff
Ok.. since nobody seems to see the Good in the Simutronics forum layout, I'll explain.
With threaded forums, it's often hard to tell if I've read a thread OR if something new has been added since I last read a thread. I have found myself re-reading threads I've read some time in the past... and I know there are plenty of times I have missed out on comments on some interesting thread because I thought I had already read it.
With Simu's forums, you never miss a post. The idea of having the boards split out into many topics is so I only have to watch what I'm interested in, but I'll see every new post in that topic. Once read, it disappears (though I can bring it back if I want). For forum junkies like me who read a lot of different forums, this can be a really nice timesaver. I don't have to try to recall everything - have I read this thread yet?
Sure Simu's forums could use improvement, but they're not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. Take it from somebody who used their forums regularly for over 5 years.
Actually, many standard-style forums also have a system to mark threads as being new or unread AND have all the features lacking in the HJ forums.
Actually it's not. If there is one thread under a topic that gets very active it's possible other threads get pushed to the second or even the third page and you miss them.
This is why threaded is easier for most people. I can see a page full of threads and most modern boards will move those with new posts to the top and a lot of boards will mark those with a lot of activity as well.
Once I got the Play.Net boards setup, with help from someone here, I found them usable as long as I keep up. The problem is that I've been busy this past week and haven't had a chance to go to those boards so I'm almost dreading going back and trying to figure out what's going on again. Sure the board will show me only the messages I haven't read but I have to go back and try and find the beginning of the topic and work my way through it.
Of course they will tell you. For example - ubbthreads supports both flat and threaded message view. Every new thread and message since your last visit is marked.
Similary on Invision (or any other good) boards - flat mode and mixed are available as well.
Both take you to the first new messages in threads since your last visit on boards. In ordered, logical fashion. With all the relevant other posts clearly visible, and if you wish so - listed below.
Every self respecting forums provide few types (digest, instant, delayed) of email notifications (try to miss a message with that), as well as thread subscriptions, that you can even group into different folders.
You can't miss a reply on other boards as well, unless you just don't want to read it.
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DStuff