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Danish Cartoons of Mohammed
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Let me point out somthing to you stupid idiots. Firstly, Islam is a religion, just like any other religion in the world. Followers of religion choose to believe in it. There is no evidence that god exists. Just cause they believe mohammed is a prophet doesnt make him one, and therefore cartoons of him should be treated the same as cartoons of anything else, including presidents/leaders/historical figures/other religious figures. If i was to be arrested for saying things against islam that would be totally wrong and against my human rights and rights to free speech. I was born free and no one has the right to tell me what to believe or what i can and cant say. If there was proof that mohammed was sent by a god here and we knew that god was real then thats a different story. Unfortunately it is all a faiery tale at the moment. When we die we will find out the truth.
Muslim people have no problems denouncing other faiths and threatening the west. They get away with it, but as soon as some stupi cartoons are drawn they get on there high horse. The way islam works they believe they are superior and EVERYONE who doesnt believe in their faith is an infidel and kaafer. Any religion that thinks like that should be abolished because all it will do (and has done, worse in modern day than any other religion) is cause trouble. Those reporters had the right to print those cartoons, and i have no problem with it. I dont believe there religion and after all they call me an infidel, why cant i do things that an infidel would do without them wetting their panties.
Freedom of speech should be controlled when it envolves preaching hate and instructions to murder others, as well as racist hate. However religion is a totally different topic, you chose to believe, it doesnt make it true.
ABOLISH RELIGION
Gee thanks, i didnt realise any of that....
I feel so much more informed now
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
sry i couldnt post for a while, but im back
i just read this (virtuella's post on page 11)
Women are not allowed to drive,women are not allowed to vote,women is forced to wear a burka,Men is allowed to have several wifes,The bible and biblic symbols are not allowed,Sharia law is used so it's allowed to chop off someone hands or behead them,Government decides what to print in the newspapers,No other religions are allowed other than Islam,women are not allowed to a divorce,women and men are forced into marriages and the list could go on and on.
Kainous,what things of the above do you accept as a muslim?
If you ask me,noone of those things should be allowed in todays world.
Noone should be forced into something they don't want to,just because an old book says so and that goes for the bible as well as the Qu'ran.
my answer:
women are not allowed to drive, not allowed to vote, forced to wear a burka, bible and biblic symbols not allowed, no other religions allowed other than islam , is all nonsense
king abdullah will allow women to drive soon,
as for not being able to vote that is nonsense , being forced to wear a burka is wrong. a muslim woman can wear something called tarha that doesnt cover all of the face, all of the head shows except for hair and neck ( so the face can be seen) but it should be their decision if they want to wear it or not
people should be free to beleive in what religion they want, and women are allowed to divorce btw.
i know over 200 people that have been married by their own choice and not forced, i have yet to see some1 forced to marry some1.
here is how it should be in true islam.
women are allowed to drive,vote, and wear burka or tarha by their own decision.
anyone is free to choose his religion and worship whomever he wants
any1 may marry who he or she wants to marry.
government only stops what may insult any1 in the press but not full control over it.
Most of the things done by most countries now are mostly out of islam, any1 in a muslim country should be free to wear what they want , beleive what they want, do anything as long as it doesnt insult or harm anyone else.
That is true islam.
[quote]Originally posted by Kainous
here is how it should be in true islam.
women are allowed to drive,vote, and wear burka or tarha by their own decision.
anyone is free to choose his religion and worship whomever he wants
any1 may marry who he or she wants to marry.
government only stops what may insult any1 in the press but not full control over it.
Most of the things done by most countries now are mostly out of islam, any1 in a muslim country should be free to wear what they want , beleive what they want, do anything as long as it doesnt insult or harm anyone else.
That is true islam.[/b][/quote]
You're right but that is not what i see if i take a look at different middle eastern countries.
As i've said before then it seems like there is quite few Imams who want full control over all muslims and even if that means those Imams have to lie and scare people.
It's those Imams preaching the wrong version of Islam that the moderate muslims all over the world has to stand up against.
It's those Imams who is ruining it for all normally functioning muslims living in the western countries.
Why does so many muslims trust their Imams 100% ?
I have a fresh story from this weekend.
I work at a hotel where all our dishwashers are muslims and i've talked to one of them over this whole damn cartoon issue amongst other things.
As you might know there was a rumor last week that said Danish people would burn the Qu'ran on the cityhall square in Copenhagen.
It was sent by SMS and noone knows who started that SMSchain.
So off course the police turned up at that location and many immigrants did too just in case something would happen(some just to start a fight)
Well nothing happened at all.
Nothing.
But the Imam that my colleague went at,told the muslims that we did infact burn the qu'ran and everyone believed him!
The Imam knew nothing happened at all but he stood and told his fellow muslims a direct lie.
That's the kind of Imams that is only trying to carry wood to the fire.
Even if i tried to explain my colleague that nothing happened at all,because there was police everywhere at the cityhall square and it was snowing like hell so a fire would be very very easy to spot,he still believed his Imam told him the truth.
Why don't more muslims start to question if it's true or false what their Imams say?
BTW if you burn the Qu'ran it will get you up to 4 months in prison here in Denmark.
Look at my previos post where i explain the truth about 1 of the pictures that the Imams brought with them to Egypt.
It's the second last on page 13.
That is those kind of muslims / Imams that i can live without.
It's sad that so few fanatic muslims are screwing it up for the majority of normal hardworking muslims that live or atleast is trying to live a normal life.
Stand up against these medieval fanatic Imams.
I can't because then i will be labeled a racist 1 second later.
It has to be the normal moderate muslims who takes action against them.
___________________________________________
CArtoons were offensive. So what does that mean? Does that mean I should respond in kind? Yes of course, come up with your own offensive cartoon of Jesus Christ or the Pope or The Great Satan (U.S.)!
This is part of the reason we are at war. Terrorism from the Islamic Extremists is a response not in kind. So also we should expect nothing else even from a cartoon. Violence and hatred is found in the Qu'ran for the infidel (the one who denies Allah and his prophet Muhammad). What do you expect to happen?
I pledge allegiance..
islam is like pvping the world, there some dumb ass people, decades go by and there still stuck wearing same shit hateing same people, i hate religion, witch 1 is right, or is there many that are right lol, if 1 is there's alot of people barking up the wrong tree, and if religion leads you to killing others YOU need a bullet to the brain, religion is a crutch for the weak minded.
i can trust a non religious person, its the religious ones i gotta look out for
guys..
check this:
a danish site for infogaining on nordic mythology, this has been hacked by muslims, check it out..
http://www.wiccadk.dk/
guys..
check this:
a danish site for infogaining on nordic mythology, this has been hacked by muslims, check it out..
http://www.wiccadk.dk/
That is old news. Over 200 Danish sites have been hacked since it started. Today the nordic stockmarkets wen't down because of some errors. Rumors quickly emerged that muslims had hacked them.
I think this should be put down now. Both sides have made their points now. Time to move on. It may be hard but that is what we need to do. And hope both sides learn of this.
I find it discusting that things like this:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3212671,00.html
Have to start to happen now. Long after.
I agree Phoenix, it is time to let bygones be bygones and move on...
However, this has escalated into something fierce, just today there are over a half a million protesters in Beirut... That is a lot of people! This isn't going to go away, and the dictatorships in the Middle East are very much interested in fanning the flames...
I 0wnz Joo
Who was it that said "wars have started over less"
Thats why its sooooo silly to provoke people. You can rabbit on about freedom of expression as much as you want. But I still dont see the funny side of this.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
None of it is funny. It's sad. Well, maybe one part was funny when taken completely out of context. A picture of a bunch of angry muslim protesters and the caption "Muslim cartoon protest" under it. I'm sorry, but that made me laugh out loud. The thought of a bunch of angry muslims with pictures of donald duck with a big red circle with a line through it popped into my head.
I think the way that some muslims preach intolerance should not be given in to. A death warrant for Salman Rushdie was not ok for publishing a book about Islam nor is this furor over a stupid insensitive cartoon. Muslims around the world need to stand up for tolerance and intelligence by saying that they support the right of the cartoon makers, that it won't do anything to their faith or their religion.
If it was making fun of Jesus, sure there would be an uproar from christians, but there wouldn't be any bloodshed. With this, I'm not so sure there won't be any.
Razor, the comic was stupid but so is the reaction to it. Imagine, millions of muslims across the middle east being angered to probable violence over a friggin cartoon! It's absolutely immeasurably imbicilic.
there cartoon, why are we even discusing it. bye acting like they do now they arent making them selfs any populair. i stand fimrly behind our very own Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
if you havent heard of here, she is a woman who follow the moslim believes the way they are ment to be, with the same right for woman as man, and she sad to the international press that we should al stand as one behind Denmark
You aint much, if you aint Dutch
www.mmozone.nl
Yeah I agree with you man... I certainly dont want anyone thinking I condone the violence. Im stuck on the idea that in order to have a "RE" action you of course needed an "Action". That to me is where the problem lies, in the action.
The Satanic Verses was not actually "about" Islam, in fact that entire debate revolved around about 1 paragraph in what was otherwise a pretty boring book. In fact I dont think it would have done anywhere near as well as a novel if he hadnt got so much publicity from the Islamic thing. I thought it was crap personally, hes not a very good writer...
It depends on which country you go to if you want to see Christian extremeism. On the most obvious front I could argue that consider GWB currently doesnt even break wind unless its in the "name of God" that every bomb that falls on the middle east is Christian retribution for Islamic 911. But thats another can of worms.
However in countries like the Philipines there have been incidences of christians killing other religious folk for a lot less than a cartoon in the very recent past, like the last couple of years.
I have to say that NONE of this helps with my transition from Aetheist to Believer. Right now Im a happy little infidel and proud of it. If this is religion.... then Ill leave it to the loons!
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
I saw an interview with Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Danish TV today but i can't remember her exact words,because i forgot to tape that program,but she more or less meant that Europeans should not give in when it comes to our freedom of speech and we should not censorship newspapers just because some fanatic muslims in the middle eastern wanted us to.
She said the newspapers that refused to print them because of not wanting to offend muslims just accepted censorship.
Also said the fundementalists would just use that "weakness" to chip of a part of our freedom of speech each time we give in for muslim fanatics until nothing is left of it.
The world need more muslims like her and less fanatics that want to convert the entire world.
___________________________________________
It isn't, Razor. Jesus would never condone violence at all, that is just the work of some misguided people who think they are doing the right thing. Although there is one passage in the bible where Jesus does say anyone who would harm children should be thrown off a cliff or some such. I'm kind of fond of that one myself.
Every religion has it's psychopaths, and we all know it doesn't take a religion to produce a killer. UGH it's such a sad state of affairs. I just got through reading about when the PLO slaughtered a whole town of arab christians in Lebanon in 1976. Gang raping the women and murdering and burning their houses down. I may be naive but I will never believe that those are real muslims. They are zealots and murderers and shame the name of Islam with their horrific deeds. Sad that we don't hear more Muslim leaders denouncing the acts of the Islamic radicals. They may have done so, but I haven't heard it.
I don't know that much about Islam I admit, but the passages I have read have been about peace, not war.
[quote]
Originally posted by Phoenixs
I find it discusting that things like this:
[url=http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3212671,00.html]
Have to start to happen now. Long after.
[/quote]
Well, the muslim extremist's smashed down the Swedish embassy when heading for the Danish one - and that was before the swede's even had anything to do with the conflict..
However, my thoughts on this are - you have the right to publish anything you want(if it isn't illegal) but you should think twice because you can hurt people bad.
[quote]Originally posted by toxzik
[b][quote]
Originally posted by Phoenixs
I find it discusting that things like this:
[url=http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3212671,00.html]
Have to start to happen now. Long after.
[/quote]
Well, the muslim extremist's smashed down the Swedish embassy when heading for the Danish one - and that was before the swede's even had anything to do with the conflict..
However, my thoughts on this are - you have the right to publish anything you want(if it isn't illegal) but you should think twice because you can hurt people bad.
[/b][/quote]
I think you are forgetting that, publishers and newspaper editors dont smash things, if muslims dont like the pictures is it NOT the reason to resort to voilence. Aside from that it is also comming out now that the cartoons that were published in the newspaper and the cartoons that were presented by the riot leaders are different ones. When they asked the one of the leaders why did he substituted cartoon, he said that no one was reacting to what was printed in the paper so he had to come up with something more extreeme so people would notice.
Police will have a few more lines of enquiry after the london demo. Perhaps not arresting some of them was a well calculated strategy not just a diplomatic or containment exercise.
On the toons themselves we have to remember that the issue has been blown out of all proportion by the same sort of "muslims" that would has many "non believers" roasted alive or enslaved and they are not the muslim majority.
I understand the cartoons were published in an egyptian newspaper as well but they would rather not publisise that.
Far better to try and use the issue to recruit some disaffected a ss holes who are lucky enough to live in a prosperous country with a reasonable opportunity to live a very comfortable (or if they choose an austere and pious ) life but think that they have a right ney duty to tell the rest of their muslim bretheren who are not so lucky, take up arms in some racially motivated jihad against the west (or anyone else that takes their fancy)
People of all faiths need to continue to voice their opinions on these matters and the muslim majority in particular need to stop sitting on the fence.
Another stat I heard was taken from a pole of 500 british muslims of which 47% (i believe) sincerely thought that 9/11 was perpetrated by Jews to galvanise opinion against muslims and that 67%(again if memory serves) thought suicide bombing isralis was acceptible.
This was a sample and a relatively small one, but worrying non the less.
Caveat Emptor
[quote]Originally posted by toxzik
[b][quote]
Originally posted by Phoenixs
I find it discusting that things like this:
[url=http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3212671,00.html]
Have to start to happen now. Long after.
[/quote]
Well, the muslim extremist's smashed down the Swedish embassy when heading for the Danish one - and that was before the swede's even had anything to do with the conflict..
However, my thoughts on this are - you have the right to publish anything you want(if it isn't illegal) but you should think twice because you can hurt people bad.
[/b][/quote]
What I meant was that I find it bad that they start doing it now. Now it has no point anymore, now it's just to upset people, fuel the fire and cause more uproar in the middleeast. At this stage a Mohammed drawing compatition has the value in a battle for freedom of speech. Now it's just piss of the muslims.
These guys are so utterly devorced from reality that it is still difficult for us to comprehend, even with ever more excessive daily reminders.
Perhaps this (roughly translated) quote from Ayatollah Khomeini will help you with your comprehension:
"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives." - from 'Tahrirolvasyleh', fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990.
Now you can make a very strong case that these people pervert the faith, but they still speak to the great majority of the Islamic world with a large amount of moral authority, and what they say is based in the middle ages.
Ultimately, the day that they face up to the fact that there are no magic men in the sky, demons in the ground, or pixies at the bottom of the garden, the better off the world will be.
Nick
The race doesn't always go to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest, but that's the way to bet.