I was just wondering how the toons are broken? They can't solo any more? I highley doubt that. They are not good on teams? Well I also doubt that too. My spines/inv scrapper who is level 50 works just fine on teams and solo. But broken to me isn't being able to herd 60+ mobs and not worry about dieing. But i'm not a Min/Max type of person either I take powers that I think fit to a theme or that are fun and because of this I totally suck at PvP but I don't really care about PvP.
I'm sorry all of your guys "I Win" button got taken away and you may die now, huh imagine that you actually may have to use some strategy when confronting a group of baddies. You may want to try out some games that aren't MMO's if you don't want to see change. Good luck to all of you.
right from I3 I've always found Inv scrappers to be harder than regens The inv' standing next to me would survive while I die. When it looks like an Inv is taking too much damage, he can retreat. A regen only knows he is in trouble when he is dead.
An inv defense cuts down the damage you take by a percentage. So if a bad guy hits you for 100 damage, you perhaps take 50. A regen takes the full 100. that 100 (in I3) would quickly regenerate, hopefully before you got hit again.
The weakness of a regen, is not soloing. It is teaming. One monster doing 100 damage is easy to cope with. When you add more players to the team, the mobs become more populated to. 1 monster doing 100 is surviveable but 5 monster doing a hundred damge = 500 = more than total hps = dead before throwing a punch.
In the same circumstance with our Inv scrapper 5 monsters doing 100 damage at 50% resistance = 250 damage = still alive.
I invented these figures, but I hope you get the concept.
In this way a regen is a superior solo build but an inferior team build (bear in mind that regen is recommended for solo players in the creation process and manual. And that is why many people chose it).
Much as I like solo play the real fun of this game is teaming. During I3 in an 8 man team fighting monsters of my own level, if I didn't stand behind the tank, I died. That simple. The Inv's next to me could stand in front, but for more limited amounts of time than the tank perhaps.
I have never been able to herd 60 plus mobs, and herding was something I enjoyed. Even 60 plus very small enemies is enough to overwhelm my total hitpoints. remember, I have no defenses. Every hit does full damage.
Herding is an art, a balance between keeping their attention and being able to jump out of the fight before dying, and then jumping back in to attract and so on. Judging when to kill them and when to herd more. It might look easy, but it isn't. Regen's are not tanks. Sooner or later you are going to overdose and die (but it's worth it, it's fun*). If you are playing against monsters of your own level or above, that will be sooner if not instantly.
(*)Tag teaming with the awesome firepower of a blaster is even better fun, you herd, he slays all in one critically timed megablast. If he is too early he misses some and the fight takes much longer. If he is too late, the regen dies.
Now come the nerfs.
after I4 teaming with an 8 man team against serious enemies became even harder than before. It was already harder than for inv scrapper (maybe not dark) but now it was harder still. The litmus test is the number of monkeys you can herd on Monkey Island without overdosing. The nerf was noticeable (no change soloing) but not game breaking.
Once again it is important to recognise the fun of teaming in COH the tools and the sidekick system in COH are the best in any game I have ever seen. There is no loot and so fallings out are far less frequent.
It's nice to be able to solo when no one else is around (for insomniacs like me thats every night at 4 am. But its' not the be all and end all of the game, and once level maxxed (and even badge maxxed) the point of soloing has been removed from the game entirely.
The next nerf is the gamebreaker.
The bulk of regeneration comes from a power called Instant Healing. Although every other regen and healing pool set has been maxxed, 75% of the healing comes from Instant Healing. (Another invented number I have no idea of the exact % and neither do I care).
Remembering that the regen already cannot scrap on the front row in an 8 man team, his problems now become much more pronounced.
Instant Healing (a really massively end draining toggle power. The balancing of which has been a dangerous and ropey process throughout the level advancement. Too little endurance regeneration and the healing cuts out = instadeath until the, now cannon fodder, regen can level up).
In the nerfs, this toggle power is now changed to a click power. It lasts 90 seconds (maybe) and then takes 5 minutes (ish) to recharge.
So now, my scrapper, who in an 8 man team was already in deep water, can only participate in that team for 90 seconds every 6 and half minutes.
Game broken.
Now if I was a min/maxxer I could reconfigure my character with new pool power sets and enhancements, but I'm not. My character grew organically and that process of growth was part of what made him who he is.
Exemplaring down to pre-Instant Healing levelled parties allowed my regen to continue teaming as normal, but his level cap was now 30 where formerly it was 50. And teams are limited to transient players who will soon outlevel you and leave you behind.
More nerfs followed reducing again the total hps regenerated, (and reducing half my tediously grinded lvl 53 health SO's to scrap) further excluding the regens from joining teams or reducing the team size they can effectively operate in.
So now I can solo a game I've already completed for no goal or character advancement or I can dance at Atlas Park.
Or, I can create an entirely new character in an entirely new world.
Originally posted by Chris039 Hi... Before anyone says that i am spamming because there are other posts on this subject, please note i have read the others and i do not spam. I have checked out CoH on the official site and looked at posts in these forums, it seems like a good game to play. But, is there anything other to do than fighting (if not i would probably still get it if the other content was good)? Thanks
City of Heroes is *still* quite a game. It has quite a few zones, many mission paths with interesting stories and is now pretty well balanced PvE and PvP.
As an Invulnerbility/SuperStrength Tanker and Dark Miasma/Dark Blast Defender I can *personally* attest to it.
My tanker is well built without following any particular build and does not "require" power pools to do my job. I am generally the last person standing, but I also know my limits. I am no longer "unkillable" and quite nicely challenged, teamed or not.
My Dark Defender was terribly broken. About 1/2 of my powers when I started didn't *work* correctly. And finally, after all the nerfs, is now considered to be about equal to Radiation Defenders, among the twinkiest Defender/Controller combos.
There is badge hunting (and the exploration to get them), zone monsters and events (and putting out fires to keep buildings from being destroyed is *dang* cool).
With the addition of the expansionalone City of Villains (that crossovers, but is not a true expansion) City of Heroes is a very robust game that is looking to add temporary power crafting and expand super-bases (if you own CoV).
Is it perfect?
Nah. People that lewt whore will hate it. Even the Hamidon Enhancements, which are the best "loot" in the game, aren't required to be effective.
I guess my view about this game is I play to have fun and for stress release, I don't really get all that attached to my toons as much as others I guess, I only have one 50 and I'm proud I've gotten one toon to 50. I still play him quite a bit and have fun.
I guess my beef with everyone is that this is supposed to be a game about having fun and meeting new friends, which I have. I see a lot of people who take the nerfs personally and I truely don't feel that way. I don't think the devs are out to make this game worse. And as I like playing my main want to see more end content. But end content will not come with some sets in certain AT's being so much better than other AT's.
You cant make content that would be challenging to a I3 Fire/Inv tank or Regen/Inv scrapper and also make it doable for blasters/controllers/defenders. Because there really was no challenge for those specific AT's during I3. An Inv or Fire tank could herd over 100 mobs and never need a defender, it made some AT's feel useless. For this reason I agree with the Devs of COH/COV every AT should have a place on a team and be usefull and at the same time you shouldn't need one of each AT to team, so far I think they have done a good job, especially after ED.
This is just my opinion and I can respect others as some people really feel a personal attachment to their toon. But for me being a semi-casual player this is the only game so far that doesn't require me to farm for loot to be helpfull to a team, which for me is the best thing.
EDIT: And to COHsucks yes I am a fanboi, I enjoy this game very much, I don't take that term as an insult. But in my opinion even My main toon was overpowered and if I want more end content things needed to be adjusted, sorry you don't like the game but good luck on your next MMO. One other thing, I am sure if I called you a Troll you would take it as an insult and just say your expressing your opinion or whatnot, guess what so can I.
Well im not going to argue with the people mad that there characters were nerfed because truth be told I have been there before with WOW, Anarchy Online, and Planetside... So I know how having your character you worked to level up be destroyed in one patch or even the game you loved be destroyed by one expansion (Anarchy Online)..
All I will say is that it is a decent hold over game, nothing more nothing less if you ask me.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
BTW, here's what I wrote in another thread on the topic of Cryptic and CoH:
I had the privelege of sitting down and talking with the developers of City of Heroes
Oh yeah, that's a real fine example of a group that cares about what it does and listens to the player base.
They care so much, in fact, that they tried to hide one of the biggest nerfs in the history of the game from the players, even going so far as to remove posts discussing it during CoV's beta. When they couldn't keep the lid on it, they had to admit what they had done for Issue 6: nerfed every AT in CoH, despite 4 previous Issues of virtually nothing but nerfs!
And here's where Emmert's duplicity came to the surface: Enhancement Diversification (as the nerf is known) had been in the works for 7 months. Knowing they were going to go live with it in Issue 6, Emmert was telling people on the boards in Issue 5 (a whole Issue Emmert himself called a nerf) that if they had a problem with certain powers, simply six-slot them, even though he and the developers knew that in Issue 6, this would no longer be the way to fix what Issue 5's nerfs had broken!
To add insult to injury, for the 7 months ED was in developement, Emmert repeated his statement that he felt most powers and ATs were "working as intended."
He lied about that, lied about 6-slotting powers he and the team knew were going to be nerfed anyway, then tried to cover up the nerf by removing posts and concocting laughable stories about how the developers "don't view enhancements as powers", despite the fact HE knew the playbase does! (They are not powers, the ENHANCE powers, so they are certainly related, Emmert's hair-splitting notwithstanding).
The Cryptic dev team is a lying, under-handed, disingenuous bunch of pr!cks that wants only one thing: people's money. And it appears they are not beyond using any means to try and get it, even lying to their customers and treating them like dirt.
Oh, and one more thing: Emmert is involved in a huge conflict of interest now, too. Check this out: he proudly announced on the CoH web site that he's writing the Prima Strategy Guide for Issue 7, a guide that his customers can purchase from Prima, which will contain proprietary information about City of Heroes/Villains. And get this: he'll be paid by Prima for it!
Now what's wrong with this picture?
Jack writes for third party-publisher, and gets paid by third party-publisher using info from the games and input from his paying customers on the CoH web board to sell that information back to his paying customers, information many of his paying customers have been asking him to post on the website since the game was released!
That's got to be one of the sleeziest, most UNethical things I've ever heard of a manager for any company doing! And believe me, were this any other business, an a-hole like that would be summarily fired! This is nothing more than Jack Emmert putting his interests ahead of his company's and customer's interests, and that - in a nutshell - is the definition of a conflict of interest!
Yeah, that's some paragon of virtue you're talking about, there. He should be fired, not lauded.
I'm sure there are good people doing software developement out there, but I highly doubt any of them work at Cryptic.
every nerf or change has been through hearings from the public and in which most are changed so that they form a compromise between its subscribers and the developers.
Except the two notables I mentioned: travel suppression and ED. See, the player-base actually wanted -ACC taken off Fly, so it would work in combat like SS/SJ. Nope. Statesnerf wouldn't hear of it, and put -ACC on every other travel power. When the community expressed outrage, the devs "relented" and gave the game "suppression" which actually turned out to be worse.
What's the easier sell to someone looking to buy a game, that it's "fun" or that it's "balanced?" Statesnerf is balancing the fun out of that game, and the "purple patch", travel suppression, and now ED are proof of that. Make no mistake: this is all about what Emmert wants and how he and his dev team play the game, not what the players want.
I've been with that game for almost 2 years and I've never once felt mistreated.
Most people in an abusive/enabling relationship feel the same way. Doesn't make me want to join you in it.
You're trying to portray the innocent changes of game mechanics to a federal offense.
First of all, there's nothing "innocent" about the way Statesnerf and team tried to hide ED from the player-base, then tried to cover it up by removing posts when word was leaked about it. You don't try to hide something from people they're going to like and agree with. You try to hide the stuff you know they're going to hate, especially when you've told them something completely opposite for more than a year ("most ATs and powers working as intended").
You're right: not a federal offense (never said it was) but downright sleezy.
Regarding Emmert's CoI:
Conflict of interest is a pretty serious violation of the ethics policies of all reputable companies. While it may not be a federal offense (unless you're a federal employee or contractor), it certainly is highly unethical anywhere you work. It's grounds for dismissal where I work. And make no mistake: for Jack Emmert to be under contract moonlighting for Prima, providing information about the games to them that they can - in turn - sell to his paying customers, when his paying customers have been asking for that information for months, is just plain wrong. And he has the gall to ask for input on the guide from the customers to whom he intends to sell the information after he gets it written????
Some "hero" you have there.
One of the players on the board at CoH sums up his conflict of interest best:
While I think it'll be a good guide if you're going to publish actual numbers, I think it's a little hypocritical if you do after all the resistance that's been shown to sharing this knowledge with the player base.I will be curious to see it, because if it DOES have numbers, that either means you finally do think your playerbase is right in needing numbers ... or ... you were holding out for a product that will cost your fans more money, of which I assume you'll be getting a portion of.
Emmert is completely shameless and - in his eyes - can apparently do no wrong because people - like you - continue to pay to support his shenanigans.
Have you played the game lately? It's still the same as it ever was. It's just as playable, bearable, believable. It's changed for the better and the community had a HUGE hand in it.
Went back for a month in January after a 7 month lay-off. It was a nerf-infested grind-fest, with virtually nothing new. And several friends who still play report that teaming is virtually required at the higher levels of the game now. Ironically, Emmert once wrote he was against forced teaming, and now - depending on your build - you don't have a choice but to team.
Trust me.
Written like a true fanboi or Cryptic dev. Which one are you?
Originally posted by happytrails7 You cant make content that would be challenging to a I3 Fire/Inv tank or Regen/Inv scrapper and also make it doable for blasters/controllers/defenders. Because there really was no challenge for those specific AT's during I3. An Inv or Fire tank could herd over 100 mobs and never need a defender, it made some AT's feel useless. For this reason I agree with the Devs of COH/COV every AT should have a place on a team and be usefull and at the same time you shouldn't need one of each AT to team, so far I think they have done a good job, especially after ED.
Theres no place in any team for regens now. So if that was their aim they totally failed.
In I3, all of those player types teamed with me regularly. I have never heard any of them complain in game at all. We were all having too much fun. This is in direct contrast to the I5 supernerf issue where over half the people I would standardly meet anywhere in game were very upset. The usual good humored conversations were in short supply.
I spent alot of time duoing with blasters, the idea that they were in any way underpowered dosen't match my experience at all. how often did I dive headlong into the centre of a mob of enemies concentrating on my attack buttons so that I could smackdown my maximum damage potential in my minimum time frame hoping to get it just perfect enough to kill enough bad guys so that when they hit back their total damage is not > my total HPs, only upon landing, to find them all dead. That's the awesome power of a blaster. Or was, since they got nerfed too, as did the controllers who were the only AT type who regularly solo'd AV's.
The most complimentry defender for a regen is a bubbler as it grants him damage resistances. Finally he can stand back on the front row in an 8 man team. There is always a place for a defender in any team. In the cited example of a fire tank herding, working with a defender, he might now be able to herd 3 times as many and kill them four times as fast. Buff support is just not a very popular role. Not in any game.
Players should not be forced to play unpopular roles in order to progress the game.
In my opinion, AT's that felt useless, where either in the wrong team (bad leadership only plays to the powertypes of one or two members and all the rest are left with their nobs in their hands. A working team dynamic plays at a pace the whole squad can enjoy and adjusts their tactics to make full use of each player). Or they just are weak players.
If your AT IS too weak, then instead of ruining my game*, a better solution would be to buff the person who is too weak. There are of course many other ways to skin this rabbit. AI's that target specific AT's or AT specific monsters like the Peacebringers get for example. But no, they chose the option that best suited themselves. Nerfs. Nerf anyone who appears to be levelling too fast so that they play longer and spend more money.
NB At this point in it's history player subs had halfed and revenues were at an all time low. The estimated subsciption number required for this to be a profitable MMO (as stated by NCSOFT) is 100,000. They had 120,000, if they couldn't keep the players they would lose their jobs.
(*)The attitude that ones enjoyment can only be satisfied at the cost of anothers, is something I would term as the attitude of a lamer. Their increased fun comes directly at the expense of someone elses and in this respect that kind of player is little more than a griefer).
In any game, there is always the player who assumes the reason he has been killed (or is not outperforming all the others) is that another player is cheating (or has an uber build or is a min/maxxer etc etc etc). If you take a game like Americas army, and place 2 players with identical builds against eachother, you will see that even in a perfectly balanced situation, player A will grossly outperform player B. In AA player B may often cry "cheat" and no amount of punkbuster will convince him that he isn't being unjustly robbed of his rightful position in the leaderboards. (There is just no way someone can be THAT much better than me. Is there?). Placed in a more complex enviroment such as COH, Sucky Player B may site Uber build as his emotional crutch.
I play games 20 hours a day. (I'm a sad no lifer). I see this in every game. I level up faster than (almost) everyone around me, I also fight better because of the amount of practise I have. Even after all this, I was still able to find balanced teams of all AT types in I3. Some players would rapidly find away to be of use to a team, and other players would never work it out whatever build they chose.
Once again if the Cryptic dev's are going to address this issue, they will address it in the way easiest and most beneficial to themselves. Adding content is more work than altering variables, and it is better for revenues if they level slower than faster. Hence nerf wins over buff, and new content loses everytime.
The fire tanker was nerfed for one reason, and one reason only.
Economics.
The fire tanker may be able to herd and kill on his own, but it is a comparatively slow and tedious process, and if his team works well he can herd while they buff and kill. (It is of note that a fire tanker cannot herd "100's" of every monster type, there are levels in which he rocks and other levels in which he is a total liability. His resistances are not well rounded and only very effective against certain monsters).
The problem with fire tankers, was Drecks powerlevelling. (Obviously no one was forced into powerlevelling with a fire tank, they did it because they enjoyed doing it).
A player could go from lvl 1-50 in 8 days, with no high level content left for them to do at this level, many of them would soon leave the game.
The dev's want you to level more slowly. People started leaving the game, and it was easier to nerf the powers than it was to create new content.
Of all the possible solutions to any balancing issues (none of which I recognise) they chose the one that would squeeze more cash out of the players and not the ones which would create more enjoyment.
Comments
Originally posted by happytrails7
I was just wondering how the toons are broken? They can't solo any more? I highley doubt that. They are not good on teams? Well I also doubt that too. My spines/inv scrapper who is level 50 works just fine on teams and solo. But broken to me isn't being able to herd 60+ mobs and not worry about dieing. But i'm not a Min/Max type of person either I take powers that I think fit to a theme or that are fun and because of this I totally suck at PvP but I don't really care about PvP.
I'm sorry all of your guys "I Win" button got taken away and you may die now, huh imagine that you actually may have to use some strategy when confronting a group of baddies. You may want to try out some games that aren't MMO's if you don't want to see change. Good luck to all of you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
right from I3 I've always found Inv scrappers to be harder than regens The inv' standing next to me would survive while I die. When it looks like an Inv is taking too much damage, he can retreat. A regen only knows he is in trouble when he is dead.
An inv defense cuts down the damage you take by a percentage. So if a bad guy hits you for 100 damage, you perhaps take 50. A regen takes the full 100. that 100 (in I3) would quickly regenerate, hopefully before you got hit again.
The weakness of a regen, is not soloing. It is teaming. One monster doing 100 damage is easy to cope with. When you add more players to the team, the mobs become more populated to. 1 monster doing 100 is surviveable but 5 monster doing a hundred damge = 500 = more than total hps = dead before throwing a punch.
In the same circumstance with our Inv scrapper 5 monsters doing 100 damage at 50% resistance = 250 damage = still alive.
I invented these figures, but I hope you get the concept.
In this way a regen is a superior solo build but an inferior team build (bear in mind that regen is recommended for solo players in the creation process and manual. And that is why many people chose it).
Much as I like solo play the real fun of this game is teaming. During I3 in an 8 man team fighting monsters of my own level, if I didn't stand behind the tank, I died. That simple. The Inv's next to me could stand in front, but for more limited amounts of time than the tank perhaps.
I have never been able to herd 60 plus mobs, and herding was something I enjoyed. Even 60 plus very small enemies is enough to overwhelm my total hitpoints. remember, I have no defenses. Every hit does full damage.
Herding is an art, a balance between keeping their attention and being able to jump out of the fight before dying, and then jumping back in to attract and so on. Judging when to kill them and when to herd more. It might look easy, but it isn't. Regen's are not tanks. Sooner or later you are going to overdose and die (but it's worth it, it's fun*). If you are playing against monsters of your own level or above, that will be sooner if not instantly.
(*)Tag teaming with the awesome firepower of a blaster is even better fun, you herd, he slays all in one critically timed megablast. If he is too early he misses some and the fight takes much longer. If he is too late, the regen dies.
Now come the nerfs.
after I4 teaming with an 8 man team against serious enemies became even harder than before. It was already harder than for inv scrapper (maybe not dark) but now it was harder still. The litmus test is the number of monkeys you can herd on Monkey Island without overdosing. The nerf was noticeable (no change soloing) but not game breaking.
Once again it is important to recognise the fun of teaming in COH the tools and the sidekick system in COH are the best in any game I have ever seen. There is no loot and so fallings out are far less frequent.
It's nice to be able to solo when no one else is around (for insomniacs like me thats every night at 4 am. But its' not the be all and end all of the game, and once level maxxed (and even badge maxxed) the point of soloing has been removed from the game entirely.
The next nerf is the gamebreaker.
The bulk of regeneration comes from a power called Instant Healing. Although every other regen and healing pool set has been maxxed, 75% of the healing comes from Instant Healing. (Another invented number I have no idea of the exact % and neither do I care).
Remembering that the regen already cannot scrap on the front row in an 8 man team, his problems now become much more pronounced.
Instant Healing (a really massively end draining toggle power. The balancing of which has been a dangerous and ropey process throughout the level advancement. Too little endurance regeneration and the healing cuts out = instadeath until the, now cannon fodder, regen can level up).
In the nerfs, this toggle power is now changed to a click power. It lasts 90 seconds (maybe) and then takes 5 minutes (ish) to recharge.
So now, my scrapper, who in an 8 man team was already in deep water, can only participate in that team for 90 seconds every 6 and half minutes.
Game broken.
Now if I was a min/maxxer I could reconfigure my character with new pool power sets and enhancements, but I'm not. My character grew organically and that process of growth was part of what made him who he is.
Exemplaring down to pre-Instant Healing levelled parties allowed my regen to continue teaming as normal, but his level cap was now 30 where formerly it was 50. And teams are limited to transient players who will soon outlevel you and leave you behind.
More nerfs followed reducing again the total hps regenerated, (and reducing half my tediously grinded lvl 53 health SO's to scrap) further excluding the regens from joining teams or reducing the team size they can effectively operate in.
So now I can solo a game I've already completed for no goal or character advancement or I can dance at Atlas Park.
Or, I can create an entirely new character in an entirely new world.
Not such a difficult decision.
City of Heroes is *still* quite a game. It has quite a few zones, many mission paths with interesting stories and is now pretty well balanced PvE and PvP.
As an Invulnerbility/SuperStrength Tanker and Dark Miasma/Dark Blast Defender I can *personally* attest to it.
My tanker is well built without following any particular build and does not "require" power pools to do my job. I am generally the last person standing, but I also know my limits. I am no longer "unkillable" and quite nicely challenged, teamed or not.
My Dark Defender was terribly broken. About 1/2 of my powers when I started didn't *work* correctly. And finally, after all the nerfs, is now considered to be about equal to Radiation Defenders, among the twinkiest Defender/Controller combos.
There is badge hunting (and the exploration to get them), zone monsters and events (and putting out fires to keep buildings from being destroyed is *dang* cool).
With the addition of the expansionalone City of Villains (that crossovers, but is not a true expansion) City of Heroes is a very robust game that is looking to add temporary power crafting and expand super-bases (if you own CoV).
Is it perfect?
Nah. People that lewt whore will hate it. Even the Hamidon Enhancements, which are the best "loot" in the game, aren't required to be effective.
They are nice though!
I guess my view about this game is I play to have fun and for stress release, I don't really get all that attached to my toons as much as others I guess, I only have one 50 and I'm proud I've gotten one toon to 50. I still play him quite a bit and have fun.
I guess my beef with everyone is that this is supposed to be a game about having fun and meeting new friends, which I have. I see a lot of people who take the nerfs personally and I truely don't feel that way. I don't think the devs are out to make this game worse. And as I like playing my main want to see more end content. But end content will not come with some sets in certain AT's being so much better than other AT's.
You cant make content that would be challenging to a I3 Fire/Inv tank or Regen/Inv scrapper and also make it doable for blasters/controllers/defenders. Because there really was no challenge for those specific AT's during I3. An Inv or Fire tank could herd over 100 mobs and never need a defender, it made some AT's feel useless. For this reason I agree with the Devs of COH/COV every AT should have a place on a team and be usefull and at the same time you shouldn't need one of each AT to team, so far I think they have done a good job, especially after ED.
This is just my opinion and I can respect others as some people really feel a personal attachment to their toon. But for me being a semi-casual player this is the only game so far that doesn't require me to farm for loot to be helpfull to a team, which for me is the best thing.
EDIT: And to COHsucks yes I am a fanboi, I enjoy this game very much, I don't take that term as an insult. But in my opinion even My main toon was overpowered and if I want more end content things needed to be adjusted, sorry you don't like the game but good luck on your next MMO. One other thing, I am sure if I called you a Troll you would take it as an insult and just say your expressing your opinion or whatnot, guess what so can I.
Well im not going to argue with the people mad that there characters were nerfed because truth be told I have been there before with WOW, Anarchy Online, and Planetside... So I know how having your character you worked to level up be destroyed in one patch or even the game you loved be destroyed by one expansion (Anarchy Online)..
All I will say is that it is a decent hold over game, nothing more nothing less if you ask me.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
BTW, here's what I wrote in another thread on the topic of Cryptic and CoH:
Oh yeah, that's a real fine example of a group that cares about what it does and listens to the player base.
They care so much, in fact, that they tried to hide one of the biggest nerfs in the history of the game from the players, even going so far as to remove posts discussing it during CoV's beta. When they couldn't keep the lid on it, they had to admit what they had done for Issue 6: nerfed every AT in CoH, despite 4 previous Issues of virtually nothing but nerfs!
And here's where Emmert's duplicity came to the surface: Enhancement Diversification (as the nerf is known) had been in the works for 7 months. Knowing they were going to go live with it in Issue 6, Emmert was telling people on the boards in Issue 5 (a whole Issue Emmert himself called a nerf) that if they had a problem with certain powers, simply six-slot them, even though he and the developers knew that in Issue 6, this would no longer be the way to fix what Issue 5's nerfs had broken!
To add insult to injury, for the 7 months ED was in developement, Emmert repeated his statement that he felt most powers and ATs were "working as intended."
He lied about that, lied about 6-slotting powers he and the team knew were going to be nerfed anyway, then tried to cover up the nerf by removing posts and concocting laughable stories about how the developers "don't view enhancements as powers", despite the fact HE knew the playbase does! (They are not powers, the ENHANCE powers, so they are certainly related, Emmert's hair-splitting notwithstanding).
The Cryptic dev team is a lying, under-handed, disingenuous bunch of pr!cks that wants only one thing: people's money. And it appears they are not beyond using any means to try and get it, even lying to their customers and treating them like dirt.
Oh, and one more thing: Emmert is involved in a huge conflict of interest now, too. Check this out: he proudly announced on the CoH web site that he's writing the Prima Strategy Guide for Issue 7, a guide that his customers can purchase from Prima, which will contain proprietary information about City of Heroes/Villains. And get this: he'll be paid by Prima for it!
Now what's wrong with this picture?
Jack writes for third party-publisher, and gets paid by third party-publisher using info from the games and input from his paying customers on the CoH web board to sell that information back to his paying customers, information many of his paying customers have been asking him to post on the website since the game was released!
That's got to be one of the sleeziest, most UNethical things I've ever heard of a manager for any company doing! And believe me, were this any other business, an a-hole like that would be summarily fired! This is nothing more than Jack Emmert putting his interests ahead of his company's and customer's interests, and that - in a nutshell - is the definition of a conflict of interest!
Yeah, that's some paragon of virtue you're talking about, there. He should be fired, not lauded.
I'm sure there are good people doing software developement out there, but I highly doubt any of them work at Cryptic.
Cross-posted from another thread. Deleted there because it was off-topic. Moved it here where it's more appropriate.
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Except the two notables I mentioned: travel suppression and ED. See, the player-base actually wanted -ACC taken off Fly, so it would work in combat like SS/SJ. Nope. Statesnerf wouldn't hear of it, and put -ACC on every other travel power. When the community expressed outrage, the devs "relented" and gave the game "suppression" which actually turned out to be worse.
What's the easier sell to someone looking to buy a game, that it's "fun" or that it's "balanced?" Statesnerf is balancing the fun out of that game, and the "purple patch", travel suppression, and now ED are proof of that. Make no mistake: this is all about what Emmert wants and how he and his dev team play the game, not what the players want.
Most people in an abusive/enabling relationship feel the same way. Doesn't make me want to join you in it.
First of all, there's nothing "innocent" about the way Statesnerf and team tried to hide ED from the player-base, then tried to cover it up by removing posts when word was leaked about it. You don't try to hide something from people they're going to like and agree with. You try to hide the stuff you know they're going to hate, especially when you've told them something completely opposite for more than a year ("most ATs and powers working as intended").
You're right: not a federal offense (never said it was) but downright sleezy.
Regarding Emmert's CoI:
Conflict of interest is a pretty serious violation of the ethics policies of all reputable companies. While it may not be a federal offense (unless you're a federal employee or contractor), it certainly is highly unethical anywhere you work. It's grounds for dismissal where I work. And make no mistake: for Jack Emmert to be under contract moonlighting for Prima, providing information about the games to them that they can - in turn - sell to his paying customers, when his paying customers have been asking for that information for months, is just plain wrong. And he has the gall to ask for input on the guide from the customers to whom he intends to sell the information after he gets it written????
Some "hero" you have there.
One of the players on the board at CoH sums up his conflict of interest best:
http://tinyurl.com/9b93v (sixth post down on page)
Emmert is completely shameless and - in his eyes - can apparently do no wrong because people - like you - continue to pay to support his shenanigans.
Went back for a month in January after a 7 month lay-off. It was a nerf-infested grind-fest, with virtually nothing new. And several friends who still play report that teaming is virtually required at the higher levels of the game now. Ironically, Emmert once wrote he was against forced teaming, and now - depending on your build - you don't have a choice but to team.
Written like a true fanboi or Cryptic dev. Which one are you?
Theres no place in any team for regens now. So if that was their aim they totally failed.
In I3, all of those player types teamed with me regularly. I have never heard any of them complain in game at all. We were all having too much fun. This is in direct contrast to the I5 supernerf issue where over half the people I would standardly meet anywhere in game were very upset. The usual good humored conversations were in short supply.
I spent alot of time duoing with blasters, the idea that they were in any way underpowered dosen't match my experience at all. how often did I dive headlong into the centre of a mob of enemies concentrating on my attack buttons so that I could smackdown my maximum damage potential in my minimum time frame hoping to get it just perfect enough to kill enough bad guys so that when they hit back their total damage is not > my total HPs, only upon landing, to find them all dead. That's the awesome power of a blaster. Or was, since they got nerfed too, as did the controllers who were the only AT type who regularly solo'd AV's.
The most complimentry defender for a regen is a bubbler as it grants him damage resistances. Finally he can stand back on the front row in an 8 man team. There is always a place for a defender in any team. In the cited example of a fire tank herding, working with a defender, he might now be able to herd 3 times as many and kill them four times as fast. Buff support is just not a very popular role. Not in any game.
Players should not be forced to play unpopular roles in order to progress the game.
In my opinion, AT's that felt useless, where either in the wrong team (bad leadership only plays to the powertypes of one or two members and all the rest are left with their nobs in their hands. A working team dynamic plays at a pace the whole squad can enjoy and adjusts their tactics to make full use of each player). Or they just are weak players.
If your AT IS too weak, then instead of ruining my game*, a better solution would be to buff the person who is too weak. There are of course many other ways to skin this rabbit. AI's that target specific AT's or AT specific monsters like the Peacebringers get for example. But no, they chose the option that best suited themselves. Nerfs. Nerf anyone who appears to be levelling too fast so that they play longer and spend more money.
NB At this point in it's history player subs had halfed and revenues were at an all time low. The estimated subsciption number required for this to be a profitable MMO (as stated by NCSOFT) is 100,000. They had 120,000, if they couldn't keep the players they would lose their jobs.
(*)The attitude that ones enjoyment can only be satisfied at the cost of anothers, is something I would term as the attitude of a lamer. Their increased fun comes directly at the expense of someone elses and in this respect that kind of player is little more than a griefer).
In any game, there is always the player who assumes the reason he has been killed (or is not outperforming all the others) is that another player is cheating (or has an uber build or is a min/maxxer etc etc etc). If you take a game like Americas army, and place 2 players with identical builds against eachother, you will see that even in a perfectly balanced situation, player A will grossly outperform player B. In AA player B may often cry "cheat" and no amount of punkbuster will convince him that he isn't being unjustly robbed of his rightful position in the leaderboards. (There is just no way someone can be THAT much better than me. Is there?). Placed in a more complex enviroment such as COH, Sucky Player B may site Uber build as his emotional crutch.
I play games 20 hours a day. (I'm a sad no lifer). I see this in every game. I level up faster than (almost) everyone around me, I also fight better because of the amount of practise I have. Even after all this, I was still able to find balanced teams of all AT types in I3. Some players would rapidly find away to be of use to a team, and other players would never work it out whatever build they chose.
Once again if the Cryptic dev's are going to address this issue, they will address it in the way easiest and most beneficial to themselves. Adding content is more work than altering variables, and it is better for revenues if they level slower than faster. Hence nerf wins over buff, and new content loses everytime.
The fire tanker was nerfed for one reason, and one reason only.
Economics.
The fire tanker may be able to herd and kill on his own, but it is a comparatively slow and tedious process, and if his team works well he can herd while they buff and kill. (It is of note that a fire tanker cannot herd "100's" of every monster type, there are levels in which he rocks and other levels in which he is a total liability. His resistances are not well rounded and only very effective against certain monsters).
The problem with fire tankers, was Drecks powerlevelling. (Obviously no one was forced into powerlevelling with a fire tank, they did it because they enjoyed doing it).
A player could go from lvl 1-50 in 8 days, with no high level content left for them to do at this level, many of them would soon leave the game.
The dev's want you to level more slowly. People started leaving the game, and it was easier to nerf the powers than it was to create new content.
Of all the possible solutions to any balancing issues (none of which I recognise) they chose the one that would squeeze more cash out of the players and not the ones which would create more enjoyment.
Fuck them. They are cunts.