Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon Originally posted by Lasastard And I agree that the DnD PnP game has never been about exploring huge worlds, but more about a nice get-together with other people and having some fun adventuring. To ensure that this is possible the game world had to be limited - otherwise this quest-oriented approach would not have worked. I must, again, say something here... If the PnP game was never about exploring worlds, why are there so many expansive fleshed out worlds in DnD? Why does WotC itself say that Getting there is half the fun?
So what do you want? another EQ-clone? They did a great job with the quests - they are certainly more immersive, challenging and diverse than in most other MMOs. They did that on the cost of other features people would have expected in an MMO, sure. But I think many people will agree that the exploration aspect is a one-time-thing. After that it gets boring and distracts from the actual game. I hate having to travel long distances in games, for example. Its fun once, but not if you have to do it over and over... The way they focused on the core feature of DnD (= meeting friends, adventuering, having a good time) allowed them to create a unique gaming experience. The game as it is now certainly caters more to people who enjoy actual content instead of the feel of an immersive world...which btw often wears olf rather quickly.
Even a huge game world boils down to some pixels eventually and in the end all that matters is real content and game mechanics. And I think they did a good job on that (although it takes some time to get used to the controls..."T" activates mouselook btw, a great improvement imho ^^)
Dumbest thing in this entire sequence of posts: that D&D was basically just a game of dungeons. I've been running games of D&D since the 70s. Dungeons -- as in, underground labrynths -- consist of, at best, 10-15% of the game, tops. The old Origin slogan was perfect for what D&D and other RPGs are: "WE BUILD WORLDS". We build WORLDS - not "we build limited little dungeons and throw creatures at people". My players play across continents and islands, staking their lives on their actions, affecting the events and religions and politics of the various kingdoms and villages and so forth. They don't just run dungeon dives over and over again -- that would suck.
And that is why DDO sucks -- because it threw out the 90+% of what D&D is, what Roleplaying is, to focus on having you do nothing but dungeon runs over and over again. And evidently limited different dungeons to run through (given the defense someone offered up of "having to imagine a difference" so that the third time through the same dungeon wasn't BORING).
No World to explore = no world to affect = bad roleplaying environment.
Who the hell plays D&D just for the dungeons? Or the dragons, for that matter?
I hate the videogame, instant-satisfaction generation.
Comments
So what do you want? another EQ-clone?
They did a great job with the quests - they are certainly more immersive, challenging and diverse than in most other MMOs. They did that on the cost of other features people would have expected in an MMO, sure. But I think many people will agree that the exploration aspect is a one-time-thing. After that it gets boring and distracts from the actual game. I hate having to travel long distances in games, for example. Its fun once, but not if you have to do it over and over...
The way they focused on the core feature of DnD (= meeting friends, adventuering, having a good time) allowed them to create a unique gaming experience.
The game as it is now certainly caters more to people who enjoy actual content instead of the feel of an immersive world...which btw often wears olf rather quickly.
Even a huge game world boils down to some pixels eventually and in the end all that matters is real content and game mechanics. And I think they did a good job on that (although it takes some time to get used to the controls..."T" activates mouselook btw, a great improvement imho ^^)
Dumbest thing in this entire sequence of posts: that D&D was basically just a game of dungeons. I've been running games of D&D since the 70s. Dungeons -- as in, underground labrynths -- consist of, at best, 10-15% of the game, tops. The old Origin slogan was perfect for what D&D and other RPGs are: "WE BUILD WORLDS". We build WORLDS - not "we build limited little dungeons and throw creatures at people". My players play across continents and islands, staking their lives on their actions, affecting the events and religions and politics of the various kingdoms and villages and so forth. They don't just run dungeon dives over and over again -- that would suck.
And that is why DDO sucks -- because it threw out the 90+% of what D&D is, what Roleplaying is, to focus on having you do nothing but dungeon runs over and over again. And evidently limited different dungeons to run through (given the defense someone offered up of "having to imagine a difference" so that the third time through the same dungeon wasn't BORING).
No World to explore = no world to affect = bad roleplaying environment.
Who the hell plays D&D just for the dungeons? Or the dragons, for that matter?
I hate the videogame, instant-satisfaction generation.