Facts you cannot ignore.

ginetti

My first major issue with DDO was the pvp, or lack thereof.
Developers of DDO claim that pvp was never a part of the DnD world.  How do they know this?  Did they ask all the pnp players around the world?
I played the pnp version for years, and while very rare, in party fighting did lead to deaths now and then.
There are those who want to see pvp in DDO and those opposed to it.
Why not offer 2 servers then, one with no PVP and one with (even if it's only in dueling or arena format).
And regarding the developers views that PVP was not a part of DnD - remember that the pen and paper version was played with a group of 3 to 6 or there abouts, the online version has the potential to bring together 1000's of people - that's the major difference there.

Then it went downhill from there...
I'd just come off a couple of months playing Guild Wars.  I liked it, especialy the 1 time payment which sealed the deal.  Graphics were not too bad at all - gameplay and skill system was good... but after 2 months i was bored, but happy.

With DDO - it, like Guild Wars, is fully... yes, FULLY, instanced.  There is no persistant world. 
Fair enough... (if a little boring after a while).  But... unlike Guild Wars, DDO will cost you per month.
Why?
Guild Wars proved this was not necessary for a fully instanced game...

Another point, why set the world in Eberron.  This so much is not that damaging, but this world is certainly not as popular as some of the other worlds of DnD - It simply strikes me as slightly odd that the first MMORPG for DnD would choose a less popular setting.

More points: While i realize that the game is still in Beta - it seems that magic casting mobs never run out of spell points (the means to cast spells - think like a pool of mana). 

In all DnD games ever, (that i can recall) monsters would have the same restrictions as any other caster when casting spells unless an inherit ability.  However in DDO it seems monsters have an unlimited amount of spell points. - This is just not the DnD rules.  The rules for DnD that apply to players apply to all creatures and NPC's in the world. - Now i fully accept some things have had to change for the switch from pnp to computer online gaming, but this was not one of them.

Now while there are so many that love DnD - which would either result in being overly critical of this game, or overly forgiving - i am neither, though i do love DnD.

My heart sunk when i realized this game would not be what i thought.  If others get enjoyment from this game, good luck to you and have loads of fun.

I for one will not be playing it anymore - Turbine - you've dropped the ball on this one and missed out on a great opportunity.

P.S. Having Gary Gygax voice sections of the game is a nice touch, but nothing more than gimmick.

(I expect to have this either flamed, agreed with, a mixture or whatever.  I realize there are the loyalists out there that will defend this game to the end, if only to desperatly con themselves into thinking this game is good.  It's not.  While the graphics are nice - graphics alone is not a game and certainly not DnD)

burrek

Your thread title is missleading.

Hashman

Look I'm no fan of DDO, but anyone who complains about the lack of PvP in it needs shooting, with a tazer gun, which is faulty and gives double the shock.

Kravos

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Originally posted by ginetti

My first major issue with DDO was the pvp, or lack thereof.
Developers of DDO claim that pvp was never a part of the DnD world.  How do they know this?  Did they ask all the pnp players around the world?
I played the pnp version for years, and while very rare, in party fighting did lead to deaths now and then.

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I've never heard of PvP being a part of DnD PnP, I'm curious, how the hell did that work out? did two rival groups of DnD players meet up and RP a PvP game while a DM described the action to em? If one group thought that the DM was giving the other group a 'helping hand' so to speak, did real fights break out? was it like football hooligans arranging locations to meet so they could 'kick off'? was it like a DnD PnP version of the film Footbal Factory?

zethcarn

congrats OP,  you're like the 4 millionth person to address these issues.  DDO is quite different and for that I think I'll enjoy it.

ginetti

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Originally posted by Kravos



Originally posted by ginetti

My first major issue with DDO was the pvp, or lack thereof.
Developers of DDO claim that pvp was never a part of the DnD world.  How do they know this?  Did they ask all the pnp players around the world?
I played the pnp version for years, and while very rare, in party fighting did lead to deaths now and then.

I've never heard of PvP being a part of DnD PnP, I'm curious, how the hell did that work out? did two rival groups of DnD players meet up and RP a PvP game while a DM described the action to em? If one group thought that the DM was giving the other group a 'helping hand' so to speak, did real fights break out? was it like football hooligans arranging locations to meet so they could 'kick off'? was it like a DnD PnP version of the film Footbal Factory?

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It was in party disputes that escalted... and always just between 2 people.
Happens mostly in our evil campaigns.

We never played with more than 1 dm and probably never will, considering our dm is very cool.

ginetti

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Originally posted by Hashman

Look I'm no fan of DDO, but anyone who complains about the lack of PvP in it needs shooting, with a tazer gun, which is faulty and gives double the shock.

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That's your opinion.  Like i said, some are opposed to it, as you obviously are, others would welcome it, and remember, unlike the pen and paper version, there should be 1000's of people playing the online game.  Why not test out your skills in an arena vs. another player, or have duels etc.

2 servers could easily fix that, one pro pvp the other sans pvp.

ataridc

redundant

 

 

gurthgor

No PVP and instanced dungeons, this is not for me at all. I have played D&D for about 10 years and i saw many many pvp fights and also i know players love having power, at least men use to love it. They want to be the most powerful in group and they use to be greedy and evil in the end and sometimes in the beginning. Also i dont understand how a game can be called mmorpg with instanced dungeons, for that i play neverwinter nights.

Also i have understood that players can not die forever, somethign that happened in D&D if they were not rezzed. So, what is this about D&D ?? just the name ??

random11

There was a time when I posted quite often on these forums, until I realised it was futile. Fact is, that your missing the point here. Judging the D&D part of the game from an mmo point of view and vice-versa....sipmply missing the point there.

Instances: most people balme them, i have brought up many, many reasons why this is a good thing for dnd setting. Iwish not be redundant, so I'll just ask away to all you non-instance fans: how other way would you have it for dnd? Tell me one REALISTIC alternative to create the game, but still stay true to the dnd essence?

Grouping: the best system i saw thus far, and i've seen many. I know dnd very well, so had no problem finding my way through the game. I've been playing the eu beta for 5 days, by now i run a 50 people guild, did not happen to me not one time to search more than 5 minutes for a party, and i found good ppl, non rushers.

Gameplay: unusual and new, no wonder wow fanboi are afraid of it. Finally we have a tactical game, user skill combined with the background rolls, keeps you stuck to your seat, intense is the word to describe it correctly. Fair loot distribution. Quests have a meaning, more styles of solving, depending on the party.

Classes: yet very different, still very balanced (30 years of polishing has this effect). Finally there is no safe leveling, so 12 year old kiddies could not mess up their character. User has total control of where his/her character is going. MULTICLASSING. You will find no twins here in this game, i assure, don't ask me to calculate mathematically how many options you have...

Graphics: i don't care about it, gameplay good enough to stick with this for a while...

Conclusion: no, it's not that massive, but that works to it's advantage, this way the interaction is deeper between party members.

Last word of advice: reach lvl 3/4 before you decide wether you like it.

Erethorn

The fact still remains that it will be subscription based... GW offers pretty much the same things: All out instancing, good class system, multiclassing, HUGE amount of builds, so that there is no cookie cutter character, inovative mission and quest design, wonderful graphics....

But besides that it also offers PvP at the same level of quality with any multiplayer game out there, Starcraft, CS, you name it.... A real chance for anyone to match his skills against others in a competition where tactics matter more than time played.... I know it's not in the "spirit" of PnP D&D, but then again, PnP D&D isn't twitch based either... The thing is, DDO will never be PnP, for obvious reasons, so what's wrong with including optional PvP, to allow people to experience something new once they finish all the PvE content ?

And remember, GW, which offers MORE, is free, while DDO will charge you monthly...

I'm not trying to bash the game, mind you, I'm sure it will be great. All I'm saying is that in the light of GW's inovations, monthly fees for an non-persistant world game should be a thing of the past... And PvP never hurts if you want to extend a game's life expectancy. IMO anyway.

Bent

Forget GWs Never Winter Nights runs circles around bringing PnP to the online world.

ataridc

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Originally posted by Erethorn

The fact still remains that it will be subscription based... GW offers pretty much the same things: All out instancing, good class system, multiclassing, HUGE amount of builds, so that there is no cookie cutter character, inovative mission and quest design, wonderful graphics....
But besides that it also offers PvP at the same level of quality with any multiplayer game out there, Starcraft, CS, you name it.... A real chance for anyone to match his skills against others in a competition where tactics matter more than time played.... I know it's not in the "spirit" of PnP D&D, but then again, PnP D&D isn't twitch based either... The thing is, DDO will never be PnP, for obvious reasons, so what's wrong with including optional PvP, to allow people to experience something new once they finish all the PvE content ?
And remember, GW, which offers MORE, is free, while DDO will charge you monthly...
I'm not trying to bash the game, mind you, I'm sure it will be great. All I'm saying is that in the light of GW's inovations, monthly fees for an non-persistant world game should be a thing of the past... And PvP never hurts if you want to extend a game's life expectancy. IMO anyway.

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Then you should probably just play GW.  I found nothing innovative about the game, I played it for 2 months and was done with basically everything.  The fact is, I find DDO more fun in the few weeks I've played it just completing the lower level quests than I ever did playing GW.  I could care less what a game does or doesn't have, I play games for the fun factor.