Originally posted by Hipokrats I don't see a problem there. I'll put on my faction armor that is biolinked (everybody will finally be in faction armor). Take my kashyyykan stalker pistol (biolinked) and go pwn rebs.... to bad i will not be able use nyms carbine. Then again you will lose boots, handwhear if not biolinked, and there are no biolinked jewelery, shirts, psg, belts and other power ups.... Can they loot backpack full of stuff? Sounds fun, and can bring some fun back, but it may kill PVP, cuz it is fragile as it is... duno...
OMG .... Don't you read?
We will be removing the no-drop, no-trade, and bio-link items off a wide variety of items. These will be primarily quest reward items.
This means that nice armor you want to wear and that nice gun you got WILL be subject to the random drop when a player character kills you because it is no longer biolinked. People need to fully think stuff thru before they just assume that they won't lose their best items in their inventory.
These ideas will further alienate the player base. It will also kill PvP as most will not want to risk losing their good stuff should they die. imagine, you got this nice set of armor and someone gets lucky and loots your helmet. LOL what good is the rest of it. Naked PvP will not happen because you will always have that one person that is fully suited with armor and kick everyones asses and get loot from all.
SOE and LA have NO clue what they are doing. They don't play the game per a post from TH or Smedlly or someone that said, "The Devs will be required from now on to play the game a certain percent of the day/week."
I am done with SOE and LA after playing the game since launch. They have shown me that they have no vision on where this game should go. They constantly remove and or nerf skills, abilities, loot, inventory, maintenance, decay, wounds, BF, buffs, and all kinds of other stuff only to add them back later and call them "new".
I have given them $1,100.00 between 2 accounts in 2 years and 7 months. I am tired of paying their salaries for a beta game that was 4 years in the making before it went live 2 yrs and 8 months ago. Let them try to find some 10-16 yrs old or parent that will shell out that kind of money over that length of time.
jfreeman said in the HOC that they'll most likely put some mechanism to ensure that certain items are not lootable. This comes from the old days of UO, I forget what it was called because it was years ago, but there was a way to "bind" stuff to your corpse so that they wouldn't be lootable.
Obraik's idea about insurance also sounds good.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by ata23 One more Thing I quit long ago... But when a bH kills you u can hire BH to kill the BH. Chain of living. No BH are safe. Who is the hunter?
Jedi for a long time BH for a long time COmmando etc etc. Played more than2 years EQ2 PvP rules Smashbuckler Runneye server
A side note about this: In the SW EU ALL BH's are members of the Bounty Hunters Guild, wether they like it or not (Dark Horse had a comic where there's a bounty on Fett for quitting). BH's aren't supposed to be able to hunt eachother, but accidents do happen when they're after the same mark )
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by Andraaxx I do not see it working. Why would anyone walk around with a bounty on their head when they could just have their friend kill them and collect the bounty and the item. And if there are still people with more than one account they could just have their other character kill them. It would be an easy way to make money, kill someone and collect the bounty they put on you.
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Not a bad update. I like the item drop and the bounty system actually (Then again I WAS A bounty hunter at one point <weg>).
I like that they're removing the assinine armor cert system. I never really liked it even when I understood it. And it was horrible for crafters when it went in. I just hope there are some crafters left to benefit from this.
I also like the entertainer change. They're not losing anything except there "I can go anywhere I want with no risk" card. Which I didn't like anyway. My wife used to play an entertainer pre-NGE and even then she always lamented that mastering her entertainer stuff meant she was totally gimped in combat. So this is good for them IMO. It's not perfect but it's a good step.
As a whole? I think the patch is a step in the right direction. Once they patch the skill based advancement back in I may re-sub
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Andraaxx I do not see it working. Why would anyone walk around with a bounty on their head when they could just have their friend kill them and collect the bounty and the item. And if there are still people with more than one account they could just have their other character kill them. It would be an easy way to make money, kill someone and collect the bounty they put on you.
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by Andraaxx I do not see it working. Why would anyone walk around with a bounty on their head when they could just have their friend kill them and collect the bounty and the item. And if there are still people with more than one account they could just have their other character kill them. It would be an easy way to make money, kill someone and collect the bounty they put on you.
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Mando armor bio-linked? I've played in 1 item drop PVP environments before. They're actually a lot of fun. There's RISK so people don't get stupid and just spawn/zerg but not so much risk that people won't play at all. If you have a bounty on you just use bio linked gear or stuff you don't mind losing till your bounty goes away. Duh.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
They take out BF, equipment decay, and wounds; things which actually stopped zerging, made sense, and fostered interdependency, only to replace it with some loot grab.
I mean, what is with these people? They took perfectly good systems of creating realistic death penalties that did not overly compromise play, only to replace it with this system that creates nothing but grief, hassle, and uncertainty.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Obraik An idea for the looting of items could be to bring back insurance. If you insure your items, they can't be stolen. Anything that isn't insured though is up for the picking. This is actually how the insurance system was intended way back when the game was first released but was changed to just prevent some decay.
this would be a capital suggestion for them. It would cover all bases if you added in that if you are under cl x then you are not lootable at all, like the way when we had the game that a "few" of us miss, you could be a new player and die but not get wounds or item decay for free.
and AA about the bio-link question it is hard to give you a rational reply as Sony in thiose patch notes talked abotu removing many of the bio-links but did nto expound on it in the notes or in the HoC chat very deeply.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 In my opinion, this is nuts. They take out BF, equipment decay, and wounds; things which actually stopped zerging, made sense, and fostered interdependency, only to replace it with some loot grab. I mean, what is with these people? They took perfectly good systems of creating realistic death penalties that did not overly compromise play, only to replace it with this system that creates nothing but grief, hassle, and uncertainty.
/agree
Well said...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by Andraaxx I do not see it working. Why would anyone walk around with a bounty on their head when they could just have their friend kill them and collect the bounty and the item. And if there are still people with more than one account they could just have their other character kill them. It would be an easy way to make money, kill someone and collect the bounty they put on you.
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
That's the point. More people WILL stay out of the Kitchen. They could add back risk in more productive ways. This will KILL PVP. Check the SWG Forums, a VAST majority of players that PVP do not want this. How many of them do you think will keep PVP'ing?
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
If this were EVE man, I'd say exactly what you said. There is nothing in EVE that cannot be replaced easily if you have the ISK.
But this is SWG, which is governed by the loot tables, and random rare spawns of resources. Some items can take months or years to replace, and some items cannot ever be replaced at all, since they were produced, looted, or quested for at a time that current conditions cannot duplicate.
This is woe waiting to happen. In a game like SWG where items are rare, gated, and grandfathered, losing that loot is tantamount to losing an heirloom, or a piece of one's history.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 In my opinion, this is nuts. They take out BF, equipment decay, and wounds; things which actually stopped zerging, made sense, and fostered interdependency, only to replace it with some loot grab. I mean, what is with these people? They took perfectly good systems of creating realistic death penalties that did not overly compromise play, only to replace it with this system that creates nothing but grief, hassle, and uncertainty.
I agree this is a bad idea. It opens up lots of griefing and exploitation options. You could allow someone to kill you then get their bounty and wait until they least expect it and possibly take an item that might be worth millions of credits. Or they could exploit the system to make money. If they want to increase PVP they should create a ranking system.
Well..If any of you quit SWG because of these PvP changes...please do not come to EvE.
These PvP rules are basically the essence of what EvE is. What does it do for EvE? It makes us group, it makes almost every accomplishment in the game a real accomplishment, it makes for a very vibrant economy.
This is the first set of changes I have seen from the devs that might actually have a chance of saving SWG. Maybe not saving it for the current 61% of players that want it to remain a solo game, but it would finally make it a viable MMO.
I believe its a step in the right direction..even though I still wouldn't play it again for its really bad combat and profession system.
Originally posted by Andraaxx I do not see it working. Why would anyone walk around with a bounty on their head when they could just have their friend kill them and collect the bounty and the item. And if there are still people with more than one account they could just have their other character kill them. It would be an easy way to make money, kill someone and collect the bounty they put on you.
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Mando armor bio-linked? I've played in 1 item drop PVP environments before. They're actually a lot of fun. There's RISK so people don't get stupid and just spawn/zerg but not so much risk that people won't play at all. If you have a bounty on you just use bio linked gear or stuff you don't mind losing till your bounty goes away. Duh.
I think they said on the HOC that they are also removing bio-links.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by Andraaxx I do not see it working. Why would anyone walk around with a bounty on their head when they could just have their friend kill them and collect the bounty and the item. And if there are still people with more than one account they could just have their other character kill them. It would be an easy way to make money, kill someone and collect the bounty they put on you.
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Mando armor bio-linked? I've played in 1 item drop PVP environments before. They're actually a lot of fun. There's RISK so people don't get stupid and just spawn/zerg but not so much risk that people won't play at all. If you have a bounty on you just use bio linked gear or stuff you don't mind losing till your bounty goes away. Duh.
I think they said on the HOC that they are also removing bio-links.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by valkyrie36 Well..If any of you quit SWG because of these PvP changes...please do not come to EvE. These PvP rules are basically the essence of what EvE is. What does it do for EvE? It makes us group, it makes almost every accomplishment in the game a real accomplishment, it makes for a very vibrant economy. This is the first set of changes I have seen from the devs that might actually have a chance of saving SWG. Maybe not saving it for the current 61% of players that want it to remain a solo game, but it would finally make it a viable MMO. I believe its a step in the right direction..even though I still wouldn't play it again for its really bad combat and profession system.
Wrong. I play EVE -- EVE's death penalty rules make perfect sense for EVE. I'm quite happy with them. For SWG, however, these rules are worse than stupid -- they'll not just drive away PVP players but players period.
There is no "right" PvP system. What's the right system -- or whether there should be one at all -- varies from game to game, because each game is utterly different. In EVE, as someone mentioned, you can replace everything you own. It won't be cheap, but you can do it. In SWG? No. Too many one-time quest rewards, one-time level rewards, grandfathered gear, loot that doesn't drop anymore -- stuff that simply cannot be replaced no matter how much you're willing to spend.
In EVE, no-holds barred total loot PvP makes sense, because it fits seemlessly into the mechanics of the world and the way the game is made and played. In Galaxies, this is an invitation to grief -- and a massive disencentive to every PvP in a game that already lacked it.
In EVE, you ship gets blown up you're done PvPing unless you've got another ship ready -- once you get back to the station or clone (if you got podded). In Galaxies, the fights are closer to WoW -- you die, clone, get back in the fight. A good PvP match means multiple deaths in a short span. Item loss for each death builds up. Add in the Bounty Hunters randomly ganking you at loadin (they don't need to take your mission off a term), and you're looking at frustration, grief, and players avoiding PvP like the plague.
You're making the same stupid mistake the SWG team is -- you're assuming a solution that is "good" in one game is good in all games. Nothing could be further from the truth. Want to kill WoW? Add in EVE's death penalty -- or even the one SWG is proposing. It would kill Battlegrounds, raiding parties into capital cities, and would kill off half the PvP server population -- because it doesn't fit the mechanics of the game at all.
Originally posted by valkyrie36 Well..If any of you quit SWG because of these PvP changes...please do not come to EvE. These PvP rules are basically the essence of what EvE is. What does it do for EvE? It makes us group, it makes almost every accomplishment in the game a real accomplishment, it makes for a very vibrant economy. This is the first set of changes I have seen from the devs that might actually have a chance of saving SWG. Maybe not saving it for the current 61% of players that want it to remain a solo game, but it would finally make it a viable MMO. I believe its a step in the right direction..even though I still wouldn't play it again for its really bad combat and profession system.
Wrong. I play EVE -- EVE's death penalty rules make perfect sense for EVE. I'm quite happy with them. For SWG, however, these rules are worse than stupid -- they'll not just drive away PVP players but players period.
There is no "right" PvP system. What's the right system -- or whether there should be one at all -- varies from game to game, because each game is utterly different. In EVE, as someone mentioned, you can replace everything you own. It won't be cheap, but you can do it. In SWG? No. Too many one-time quest rewards, one-time level rewards, grandfathered gear, loot that doesn't drop anymore -- stuff that simply cannot be replaced no matter how much you're willing to spend.
In EVE, no-holds barred total loot PvP makes sense, because it fits seemlessly into the mechanics of the world and the way the game is made and played. In Galaxies, this is an invitation to grief -- and a massive disencentive to every PvP in a game that already lacked it.
In EVE, you ship gets blown up you're done PvPing unless you've got another ship ready -- once you get back to the station or clone (if you got podded). In Galaxies, the fights are closer to WoW -- you die, clone, get back in the fight. A good PvP match means multiple deaths in a short span. Item loss for each death builds up. Add in the Bounty Hunters randomly ganking you at loadin (they don't need to take your mission off a term), and you're looking at frustration, grief, and players avoiding PvP like the plague.
You're making the same stupid mistake the SWG team is -- you're assuming a solution that is "good" in one game is good in all games. Nothing could be further from the truth. Want to kill WoW? Add in EVE's death penalty -- or even the one SWG is proposing. It would kill Battlegrounds, raiding parties into capital cities, and would kill off half the PvP server population -- because it doesn't fit the mechanics of the game at all.
QFE
Very true, a different style can work for everygame, gotta take in the whole picture, which Morat did a very nice job of it so I'll just say I agree heh.
Originally posted by valkyrie36 Well..If any of you quit SWG because of these PvP changes...please do not come to EvE. These PvP rules are basically the essence of what EvE is. What does it do for EvE? It makes us group, it makes almost every accomplishment in the game a real accomplishment, it makes for a very vibrant economy. This is the first set of changes I have seen from the devs that might actually have a chance of saving SWG. Maybe not saving it for the current 61% of players that want it to remain a solo game, but it would finally make it a viable MMO. I believe its a step in the right direction..even though I still wouldn't play it again for its really bad combat and profession system.
Wrong. I play EVE -- EVE's death penalty rules make perfect sense for EVE. I'm quite happy with them. For SWG, however, these rules are worse than stupid -- they'll not just drive away PVP players but players period.
There is no "right" PvP system. What's the right system -- or whether there should be one at all -- varies from game to game, because each game is utterly different. In EVE, as someone mentioned, you can replace everything you own. It won't be cheap, but you can do it. In SWG? No. Too many one-time quest rewards, one-time level rewards, grandfathered gear, loot that doesn't drop anymore -- stuff that simply cannot be replaced no matter how much you're willing to spend.
In EVE, no-holds barred total loot PvP makes sense, because it fits seemlessly into the mechanics of the world and the way the game is made and played. In Galaxies, this is an invitation to grief -- and a massive disencentive to every PvP in a game that already lacked it.
In EVE, you ship gets blown up you're done PvPing unless you've got another ship ready -- once you get back to the station or clone (if you got podded). In Galaxies, the fights are closer to WoW -- you die, clone, get back in the fight. A good PvP match means multiple deaths in a short span. Item loss for each death builds up. Add in the Bounty Hunters randomly ganking you at loadin (they don't need to take your mission off a term), and you're looking at frustration, grief, and players avoiding PvP like the plague.
You're making the same stupid mistake the SWG team is -- you're assuming a solution that is "good" in one game is good in all games. Nothing could be further from the truth. Want to kill WoW? Add in EVE's death penalty -- or even the one SWG is proposing. It would kill Battlegrounds, raiding parties into capital cities, and would kill off half the PvP server population -- because it doesn't fit the mechanics of the game at all.
Very good post. Yet it assumes that the mechanics of the game are staying the way they are now. As we all know, SWG changes its mechanics quite frequently.
We know that the GCW is of paramount concern to SWGs survival and we are about to see some major mechanics change to make it an actual war.
If the establishment of risk into PvP is any sign of the path they are taking, than again I say I think they are heading in the right direction.
These changes almost make me want to come back. Almost. In fact, I would if I wasn't having fun in World of Warcraft at the moment.
My only gripe is that the lootable items should not be equipped items. I think that your armor and your weapon shouldn't be randomly taken from you. If it was deliberate looting, though, that could actually be cool.
Well, okay, I have another gripe. I may be in the minority here, but I've always been a fan of the fact that Entertainers and Crafters had low CLs. They aren't combatants, they are traders, who should be using combatants for protection and paying them handsomely (and getting paid handsomely for their services as well). The only thing I would have supported would be increasing the HP of Crafters and Entertainers, but they shouldn't be fighters in this new era of non-dabbling.
Player bounties sound great, though. I like the way it sounds. The only thing I'd change there would be making it so BHs have to use tools to find the players (like the terminals before) instead of having a simple way of looking at them.
jfreeman said in the HOC that they'll most likely put some mechanism to ensure that certain items are not lootable. This comes from the old days of UO, I forget what it was called because it was years ago, but there was a way to "bind" stuff to your corpse so that they wouldn't be lootable.
Obraik's idea about insurance also sounds good.
Awww man you had to say his name LOL. Jeff Freeman ... just the sound of his name makes me want to vomit. He was one of the Devs that pushed HARD for the NGE. I can't believe he still works there.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Well if I still played I would stock my inventory with melons and zerg the enemy. WOOT!!
Seriousy though I thought the developers where trying to make the game better. Isnt this a step back. If I remember right either in beta or just after release you could loot dead players. Why implement something they already took out of the game.
Comments
OMG .... Don't you read?
We will be removing the no-drop, no-trade, and bio-link items off a wide variety of items. These will be primarily quest reward items.
This means that nice armor you want to wear and that nice gun you got WILL be subject to the random drop when a player character kills you because it is no longer biolinked. People need to fully think stuff thru before they just assume that they won't lose their best items in their inventory.
These ideas will further alienate the player base. It will also kill PvP as most will not want to risk losing their good stuff should they die. imagine, you got this nice set of armor and someone gets lucky and loots your helmet. LOL what good is the rest of it. Naked PvP will not happen because you will always have that one person that is fully suited with armor and kick everyones asses and get loot from all.
SOE and LA have NO clue what they are doing. They don't play the game per a post from TH or Smedlly or someone that said, "The Devs will be required from now on to play the game a certain percent of the day/week."
I am done with SOE and LA after playing the game since launch. They have shown me that they have no vision on where this game should go. They constantly remove and or nerf skills, abilities, loot, inventory, maintenance, decay, wounds, BF, buffs, and all kinds of other stuff only to add them back later and call them "new".
I have given them $1,100.00 between 2 accounts in 2 years and 7 months. I am tired of paying their salaries for a beta game that was 4 years in the making before it went live 2 yrs and 8 months ago. Let them try to find some 10-16 yrs old or parent that will shell out that kind of money over that length of time.
jfreeman said in the HOC that they'll most likely put some mechanism to ensure that certain items are not lootable. This comes from the old days of UO, I forget what it was called because it was years ago, but there was a way to "bind" stuff to your corpse so that they wouldn't be lootable.
Obraik's idea about insurance also sounds good.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Not a bad update. I like the item drop and the bounty system actually (Then again I WAS A bounty hunter at one point <weg>).
I like that they're removing the assinine armor cert system. I never really liked it even when I understood it. And it was horrible for crafters when it went in. I just hope there are some crafters left to benefit from this.
I also like the entertainer change. They're not losing anything except there "I can go anywhere I want with no risk" card. Which I didn't like anyway. My wife used to play an entertainer pre-NGE and even then she always lamented that mastering her entertainer stuff meant she was totally gimped in combat. So this is good for them IMO. It's not perfect but it's a good step.
As a whole? I think the patch is a step in the right direction. Once they patch the skill based advancement back in I may re-sub
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Mando armor bio-linked? I've played in 1 item drop PVP environments before. They're actually a lot of fun. There's RISK so people don't get stupid and just spawn/zerg but not so much risk that people won't play at all. If you have a bounty on you just use bio linked gear or stuff you don't mind losing till your bounty goes away. Duh.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
In my opinion, this is nuts.
They take out BF, equipment decay, and wounds; things which actually stopped zerging, made sense, and fostered interdependency, only to replace it with some loot grab.
I mean, what is with these people? They took perfectly good systems of creating realistic death penalties that did not overly compromise play, only to replace it with this system that creates nothing but grief, hassle, and uncertainty.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
this would be a capital suggestion for them. It would cover all bases if you added in that if you are under cl x then you are not lootable at all, like the way when we had the game that a "few" of us miss, you could be a new player and die but not get wounds or item decay for free.
and AA about the bio-link question it is hard to give you a rational reply as Sony in thiose patch notes talked abotu removing many of the bio-links but did nto expound on it in the notes or in the HoC chat very deeply.
/agree
Well said...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
That's the point. More people WILL stay out of the Kitchen. They could add back risk in more productive ways. This will KILL PVP. Check the SWG Forums, a VAST majority of players that PVP do not want this. How many of them do you think will keep PVP'ing?
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
If this were EVE man, I'd say exactly what you said. There is nothing in EVE that cannot be replaced easily if you have the ISK.
But this is SWG, which is governed by the loot tables, and random rare spawns of resources. Some items can take months or years to replace, and some items cannot ever be replaced at all, since they were produced, looted, or quested for at a time that current conditions cannot duplicate.
This is woe waiting to happen. In a game like SWG where items are rare, gated, and grandfathered, losing that loot is tantamount to losing an heirloom, or a piece of one's history.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Well..If any of you quit SWG because of these PvP changes...please do not come to EvE.
These PvP rules are basically the essence of what EvE is. What does it do for EvE? It makes us group, it makes almost every accomplishment in the game a real accomplishment, it makes for a very vibrant economy.
This is the first set of changes I have seen from the devs that might actually have a chance of saving SWG. Maybe not saving it for the current 61% of players that want it to remain a solo game, but it would finally make it a viable MMO.
I believe its a step in the right direction..even though I still wouldn't play it again for its really bad combat and profession system.
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Mando armor bio-linked? I've played in 1 item drop PVP environments before. They're actually a lot of fun. There's RISK so people don't get stupid and just spawn/zerg but not so much risk that people won't play at all. If you have a bounty on you just use bio linked gear or stuff you don't mind losing till your bounty goes away. Duh.
I think they said on the HOC that they are also removing bio-links.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
But let's say you play it honestly and don't exploit it: You're at a RP event with a full suit of Mando on and someone ganks you. That's about a 1 in 11 chance on them taking a piece of Mando.
This doesn't just effect you immeadiatly during PVP. If you choose to PVP, you better put that Mando and NS Bicep in a Museum. Forget about EVER traveling around with a rare loot drop, or your SK key...
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Mando armor bio-linked? I've played in 1 item drop PVP environments before. They're actually a lot of fun. There's RISK so people don't get stupid and just spawn/zerg but not so much risk that people won't play at all. If you have a bounty on you just use bio linked gear or stuff you don't mind losing till your bounty goes away. Duh.
I think they said on the HOC that they are also removing bio-links.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
I don't think bio-linking is being removed entirely, just from some items.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Wrong. I play EVE -- EVE's death penalty rules make perfect sense for EVE. I'm quite happy with them. For SWG, however, these rules are worse than stupid -- they'll not just drive away PVP players but players period.
There is no "right" PvP system. What's the right system -- or whether there should be one at all -- varies from game to game, because each game is utterly different. In EVE, as someone mentioned, you can replace everything you own. It won't be cheap, but you can do it. In SWG? No. Too many one-time quest rewards, one-time level rewards, grandfathered gear, loot that doesn't drop anymore -- stuff that simply cannot be replaced no matter how much you're willing to spend.
In EVE, no-holds barred total loot PvP makes sense, because it fits seemlessly into the mechanics of the world and the way the game is made and played. In Galaxies, this is an invitation to grief -- and a massive disencentive to every PvP in a game that already lacked it.
In EVE, you ship gets blown up you're done PvPing unless you've got another ship ready -- once you get back to the station or clone (if you got podded). In Galaxies, the fights are closer to WoW -- you die, clone, get back in the fight. A good PvP match means multiple deaths in a short span. Item loss for each death builds up. Add in the Bounty Hunters randomly ganking you at loadin (they don't need to take your mission off a term), and you're looking at frustration, grief, and players avoiding PvP like the plague.
You're making the same stupid mistake the SWG team is -- you're assuming a solution that is "good" in one game is good in all games. Nothing could be further from the truth. Want to kill WoW? Add in EVE's death penalty -- or even the one SWG is proposing. It would kill Battlegrounds, raiding parties into capital cities, and would kill off half the PvP server population -- because it doesn't fit the mechanics of the game at all.
Wrong. I play EVE -- EVE's death penalty rules make perfect sense for EVE. I'm quite happy with them. For SWG, however, these rules are worse than stupid -- they'll not just drive away PVP players but players period.
There is no "right" PvP system. What's the right system -- or whether there should be one at all -- varies from game to game, because each game is utterly different. In EVE, as someone mentioned, you can replace everything you own. It won't be cheap, but you can do it. In SWG? No. Too many one-time quest rewards, one-time level rewards, grandfathered gear, loot that doesn't drop anymore -- stuff that simply cannot be replaced no matter how much you're willing to spend.
In EVE, no-holds barred total loot PvP makes sense, because it fits seemlessly into the mechanics of the world and the way the game is made and played. In Galaxies, this is an invitation to grief -- and a massive disencentive to every PvP in a game that already lacked it.
In EVE, you ship gets blown up you're done PvPing unless you've got another ship ready -- once you get back to the station or clone (if you got podded). In Galaxies, the fights are closer to WoW -- you die, clone, get back in the fight. A good PvP match means multiple deaths in a short span. Item loss for each death builds up. Add in the Bounty Hunters randomly ganking you at loadin (they don't need to take your mission off a term), and you're looking at frustration, grief, and players avoiding PvP like the plague.
You're making the same stupid mistake the SWG team is -- you're assuming a solution that is "good" in one game is good in all games. Nothing could be further from the truth. Want to kill WoW? Add in EVE's death penalty -- or even the one SWG is proposing. It would kill Battlegrounds, raiding parties into capital cities, and would kill off half the PvP server population -- because it doesn't fit the mechanics of the game at all.
QFE
Very true, a different style can work for everygame, gotta take in the whole picture, which Morat did a very nice job of it so I'll just say I agree heh.
Wrong. I play EVE -- EVE's death penalty rules make perfect sense for EVE. I'm quite happy with them. For SWG, however, these rules are worse than stupid -- they'll not just drive away PVP players but players period.
There is no "right" PvP system. What's the right system -- or whether there should be one at all -- varies from game to game, because each game is utterly different. In EVE, as someone mentioned, you can replace everything you own. It won't be cheap, but you can do it. In SWG? No. Too many one-time quest rewards, one-time level rewards, grandfathered gear, loot that doesn't drop anymore -- stuff that simply cannot be replaced no matter how much you're willing to spend.
In EVE, no-holds barred total loot PvP makes sense, because it fits seemlessly into the mechanics of the world and the way the game is made and played. In Galaxies, this is an invitation to grief -- and a massive disencentive to every PvP in a game that already lacked it.
In EVE, you ship gets blown up you're done PvPing unless you've got another ship ready -- once you get back to the station or clone (if you got podded). In Galaxies, the fights are closer to WoW -- you die, clone, get back in the fight. A good PvP match means multiple deaths in a short span. Item loss for each death builds up. Add in the Bounty Hunters randomly ganking you at loadin (they don't need to take your mission off a term), and you're looking at frustration, grief, and players avoiding PvP like the plague.
You're making the same stupid mistake the SWG team is -- you're assuming a solution that is "good" in one game is good in all games. Nothing could be further from the truth. Want to kill WoW? Add in EVE's death penalty -- or even the one SWG is proposing. It would kill Battlegrounds, raiding parties into capital cities, and would kill off half the PvP server population -- because it doesn't fit the mechanics of the game at all.
Very good post. Yet it assumes that the mechanics of the game are staying the way they are now. As we all know, SWG changes its mechanics quite frequently.
We know that the GCW is of paramount concern to SWGs survival and we are about to see some major mechanics change to make it an actual war.
If the establishment of risk into PvP is any sign of the path they are taking, than again I say I think they are heading in the right direction.
These changes almost make me want to come back. Almost. In fact, I would if I wasn't having fun in World of Warcraft at the moment.
My only gripe is that the lootable items should not be equipped items. I think that your armor and your weapon shouldn't be randomly taken from you. If it was deliberate looting, though, that could actually be cool.
Well, okay, I have another gripe. I may be in the minority here, but I've always been a fan of the fact that Entertainers and Crafters had low CLs. They aren't combatants, they are traders, who should be using combatants for protection and paying them handsomely (and getting paid handsomely for their services as well). The only thing I would have supported would be increasing the HP of Crafters and Entertainers, but they shouldn't be fighters in this new era of non-dabbling.
Player bounties sound great, though. I like the way it sounds. The only thing I'd change there would be making it so BHs have to use tools to find the players (like the terminals before) instead of having a simple way of looking at them.
hmm, so it sounds like i need to start storing my more valuable items in my houses or the bank again
and dont get into PvP fights when on my way across the galaxy to get high end space loot RE'd
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MMO Name: InVictus Kell
Currently Playing:
EVE Online
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Its all 1 vs 1 PvP
Were is the GCW PvP?
I want numerous people vs numerous other people PvP
1 vs 1 is dumb
this pub is a good start....but SWG and SOE have sunk SO SO SO far down into the tar pits....this just wont be enough
and WTF - HOTH... CLOUD CITY......
man oh man - come on!
lol
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
Well if I still played I would stock my inventory with melons and zerg the enemy. WOOT!!
Seriousy though I thought the developers where trying to make the game better. Isnt this a step back. If I remember right either in beta or just after release you could loot dead players. Why implement something they already took out of the game.
oh my god... this is great.
keep doing things like this please?
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--