PVE??

andel

i am looking to find a new mmo i currently play wow and really want something that has a good pvp aspect as i see this does but what is the pve like at end game

and try and compare it to wow as i will understand it better that way lol

Cenn

Hiya
I play WoW as well - so i think i can make a valid comparison.

PvP - Eve is player vs player competition from the ground up. Markets, trading, combat, etc, everything is competition. In the actual combat setup is very very important, as are who you are working with.

Just on the weekend i took town an experienced player (1 year +) in an elite assult frigate while using a 2 month character in a cheap cruiser - i was just setup for the situation while he was unprepared for me.

PvP in eve is great fun, gets your hands shaking as you are really risking a lot, and potentially you can win big, or loose big.

PvE in eve.. compared to WoW, eve sucks big time. The missions in Eve are improving slowly, but are still very repetitive and generally not that much fun. The AI is very very simple, and there is nothing like aggro management. If you want enjoyable PvE, play WoW. The only reason i PvE in eve is to improve my security status and to get some spare cash... You can earn money in PvP, but its challenging.

SnaKey

He also forgot to mention that there really isn't an "End Game" in EVE.

EVE is setup on a skill system, where ppl who have been playing for 3yrs are still training new skills... so there is no real "End Game" as in killing the biggest rats (NPCs) or anything.

Besides that, he pretty much hit the nail on the head. PVE in EVE just blows.

Personally, I hate PVE. PVE is boring crap that even the most advanced Mob AI is still predictable to a certain extent and there is no real satisfaction of killing a Mob... at least not compared to killing a player.

If you kill a kick ass player (like the one he mentioned in his small cruiser) you will remember that for as long as you remember the game.
If you kill a kick ass Mob, you will remember that for as long as until you do it again... then again.... then again... then again............... you get the point.

andel

ok thanks that is great advice

one more thing though how do you get like better gear or whatever or is it all about just having high skills then the other player

 

Wrayeth

PvP in EVE is all about using the right ship, setup, and tactics to kill your opponent.

For instance, if your opponent is in a long-range setup, use a short range setup and get under his guns - if you orbit at point blank, there's a good chance he won't be able to hit you, while your short range guns will be able to hit him since they track better.

Character skills do play a part in success or failure as far as PvP goes, but using the right ship and setup for the task matters a lot more.  It's actually possible to kill a battleship with a frigate if the battleship pilot isn't fitted to deal with your frig.

Also, player skill matters a lot, especially in terms of bringing your opponent to action in the first place.  As an example, here's a little story that shows how tactics and knowledge of my opponent helped me get a kill:

It was late at night and I was about to log out when scouts reported a BoB HAC (Heavy Assault Cruiser) inbound.  I considered my opponent and his ship to determine the best plan of action.

First, heavy assault cruisers, while powerful, don't tank as well as battleships in most instances.  This meant he probably wouldn't engage an opponent capable of fighting back at a gate - this was in low security space, not 0.0, so he would have to deal with fire both from the sentry guns at the gate and the person he was trying to kill.

Second, he was in an Ishtar, which is arguably the most powerful HAC in the game at short range combat - its damage output easily rivals that of a battleship, and its tank is definitely no slouch.  Moreover, most battleship turrets have trouble hitting smaller ships, and a HAC pilot can usually get under most turret ships' guns fast enough that the battleship never hits them.  This meant that the pilot would probably feel confident in taking on a battleship.

Third, I considered the nature of the player.  He was a member of the Band Of Brothers (BoB) alliance, and BoB are hardcore PvPers.  Moreover, they usually fly in fleets and large gangs - when they're flying solo, they're looking for ganks.  They want to hit an expensive target, take it out, and collect the loot.

All that in mind, I decided that the best way to deal with him was to set a trap.  Engaging him at a gate would be dangerous, since I'd have to tank both him and the sentries, and I probably wouldn't get the chance, anyway (any competent PvPer uses instas whenever possible).

I undocked my autocannon tempest, which is a battleship set up for short range combat.  This particular setup was well-suited for killing HACs, with heavy nos, a web, a scrambler, and a multispectral jammer, as well as tech II dual 650mm autocannons (short-range battleship guns hit cruiser-class ships much more effectively than long range guns do) and a strong armor tank.

I jumped into the next system while he was still two jumps out, and warped to the first of the asteroid belts in that system at 15km (short range).  From there, I proceeded to engage the NPC pirates that were in the belt, trying to appear as a fat and happy carebear who had no idea there was a hostile in the area.   I expected that he would go through the belts when he got in system, looking for a gank, and since I was in a battleship, I expected he would see me as a fat and juicy target that was too irresistable to pass up (battleships are expensive and are often fitted with high-end modules - as mine was).

Anyway, I sat there and played possum, and, sure enough, he jumped into system and warped directly to the first belt.

Bingo!

He locked me and scrambled me, and I proceeded to do the same to him, which he didn't expect.  I then proceeded to beat the hell out of him with a setup specialized in dealing with exactly the type of ship he was flying, and it was purely an afterthought when my corpmates, who had been waiting in the next system until I had him scrambled, arrived.  He was already going down when they showed up (shields gone, below half armor, and his tank unable to keep up with my damage output) - they were just the nail in the coffin.

Anyway, that's an illustration of how using the right ship, setup, and tactics - as well as knowledge of your opponent - can allow you to achieve a kill.  I'm not certain, but I think he had more skillpoints than me; it really didn't matter, anyway, in that situation.  I dictated the terms of the engagement, and made him fight at a time and place of my choosing.

SnaKey

Great read Wrayeth

SobaMan

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Originally posted by andel

ok thanks that is great advice
one more thing though how do you get like better gear or whatever or is it all about just having high skills then the other player
 

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....You earn it.

mission running, PvPing and winning, mining, trading... make your money, train your skills, get your gear

Cenn

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Originally posted by andel
ok thanks that is great advice
one more thing though how do you get like better gear or whatever or is it all about just having high skills then the other player

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Skills dont matter that much really - if you have enough skills to use the equipment, then thats usually enough for most situations.

the better gear - you can buy it off the market if you have the money. Or you can loot it from other players and NPCs.

most tech1 gear is relatively cheap and easy to get, and pretty effective.

tech2 gear is player made only, bloody expensive, and only marginally more effective than tech1 gear (like 10-15% better imho) and also needs lots of skills to use

personally i prefer fighting with tech1 equipment and ships, as they are much cheaper, and allow me to easily try new setups and experiment.

Hardin

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Originally posted by Wrayeth

PvP in EVE is all about using the right ship, setup, and tactics to kill your opponent.
For instance, if your opponent is in a long-range setup, use a short range setup and get under his guns - if you orbit at point blank, there's a good chance he won't be able to hit you, while your short range guns will be able to hit him since they track better.
Character skills do play a part in success or failure as far as PvP goes, but using the right ship and setup for the task matters a lot more.  It's actually possible to kill a battleship with a frigate if the battleship pilot isn't fitted to deal with your frig.
Also, player skill matters a lot, especially in terms of bringing your opponent to action in the first place.  As an example, here's a little story that shows how tactics and knowledge of my opponent helped me get a kill:
It was late at night and I was about to log out when scouts reported a BoB HAC (Heavy Assault Cruiser) inbound.  I considered my opponent and his ship to determine the best plan of action.
First, heavy assault cruisers, while powerful, don't tank as well as battleships in most instances.  This meant he probably wouldn't engage an opponent capable of fighting back at a gate - this was in low security space, not 0.0, so he would have to deal with fire both from the sentry guns at the gate and the person he was trying to kill.
Second, he was in an Ishtar, which is arguably the most powerful HAC in the game at short range combat - its damage output easily rivals that of a battleship, and its tank is definitely no slouch.  Moreover, most battleship turrets have trouble hitting smaller ships, and a HAC pilot can usually get under most turret ships' guns fast enough that the battleship never hits them.  This meant that the pilot would probably feel confident in taking on a battleship.
Third, I considered the nature of the player.  He was a member of the Band Of Brothers (BoB) alliance, and BoB are hardcore PvPers.  Moreover, they usually fly in fleets and large gangs - when they're flying solo, they're looking for ganks.  They want to hit an expensive target, take it out, and collect the loot.
All that in mind, I decided that the best way to deal with him was to set a trap.  Engaging him at a gate would be dangerous, since I'd have to tank both him and the sentries, and I probably wouldn't get the chance, anyway (any competent PvPer uses instas whenever possible).
I undocked my autocannon tempest, which is a battleship set up for short range combat.  This particular setup was well-suited for killing HACs, with heavy nos, a web, a scrambler, and a multispectral jammer, as well as tech II dual 650mm autocannons (short-range battleship guns hit cruiser-class ships much more effectively than long range guns do) and a strong armor tank.
I jumped into the next system while he was still two jumps out, and warped to the first of the asteroid belts in that system at 15km (short range).  From there, I proceeded to engage the NPC pirates that were in the belt, trying to appear as a fat and happy carebear who had no idea there was a hostile in the area.   I expected that he would go through the belts when he got in system, looking for a gank, and since I was in a battleship, I expected he would see me as a fat and juicy target that was too irresistable to pass up (battleships are expensive and are often fitted with high-end modules - as mine was).
Anyway, I sat there and played possum, and, sure enough, he jumped into system and warped directly to the first belt.
Bingo!
He locked me and scrambled me, and I proceeded to do the same to him, which he didn't expect.  I then proceeded to beat the hell out of him with a setup specialized in dealing with exactly the type of ship he was flying, and it was purely an afterthought when my corpmates, who had been waiting in the next system until I had him scrambled, arrived.  He was already going down when they showed up (shields gone, below half armor, and his tank unable to keep up with my damage output) - they were just the nail in the coffin.
Anyway, that's an illustration of how using the right ship, setup, and tactics - as well as knowledge of your opponent - can allow you to achieve a kill.  I'm not certain, but I think he had more skillpoints than me; it really didn't matter, anyway, in that situation.  I dictated the terms of the engagement, and made him fight at a time and place of my choosing.

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Nice story Wrayeth...

I just want to add another:

I have a specialised PvP character. It has been active since September 2003 and has 32 million skillpoint of which 12 million are in gunnery and another 5 million are in drones. I specialised this character in battleships and have what I consider a good all round setup. In most cases I rip my opponents to shreds in very short order.

Anyway last night I logged on and noticed a hostile in my system. As I always do with unknown enemies I bring up their bio to get a rough idea of how long they have been playing.

When I saw that the 'birthdate' for the character was just six monhs ago I have to admit I smiled.

My ship of choice on this occasion was an Armageddon a mid range battleship a high damage output. It was completely equipped with good equipment including a set of 7 Mega Pulse II lasers and 5 Berserker II drones.

Anyway I warped to the system gate and their the enemy sat in a Raven. Another battleship and a very capable opponent. However, I was not really worried as under most circumstances my 'specialisation' and PvP experience wins me most fights.

The opposing battleship was at perfect range for my short range guns (15km) and very few people can stand up to the battering from a 'ganka'geddon for very long. I locked the target and opened fire, quickly unleashing my drones to add to the damage. I had taken the enemy by surprise and swiftly reduced his shields to 50%... The enemy started returning fire at what seemed to be an amazingly pitiful rate.

An easy kill...

But suddenly the damage from my fire dropped alarmingly. The enemy had turned on his shield hardeners. With his repairers activated his shield actually started improving despite my best efforts. I still wasn't worried though. Running Shield Hardeners and Repairers is highly capacitor (energy) intensive and I didn't thnk he could last forever.

Unfortunately this was when I noticed the lovely red beam linking his ship to mine which indicated that the enemy was using a Nosferatu and actually sucking my capacitor and using it for himself... A quick glance at the capacitor gauge confirmed it. I was at 45% and falling!

Bugger...

It was at this point that I decided to beat a retreat. His shield wasn't cracking and he was using my own capacitor against me. He was still doing minimal damage to me but it was only a matter of time before my own capacitor would dry up and my shipp would be left floating helplessly in space.

Fortunately for me with all the defensive gear on his Raven the enemy pilot did not have a warp scrambler. Even more fortunately he didnt have a friend in a frigate around to do that job for him.  I recalled my drones and managed to warp out before my juice ran out...

Phew...

Anyway the moral of this story is that the skills/age of a character doesn't matter. Yes it gives you an advantage and extra flexibility but a clever enemy making the best use of their ships strengths and using untypical setups can take anyone - no matter how rich/experienced by surprise - a bit like Wrayeth  did above...

It is one of the strengths of the game that there is no 'I win' button. There is no setup that cannot be defeated by a clever opponent. It doesn't matter what your age is.

If that battleship had been escorted by a single tech 1 frigate with warp scrambler piloted by a two week old noob my 60 million isk Armageddon (with approx 80 million isk worth of equipment would not have got out alive

Of course it is not always possible to plan each and every engagement and you often have to find a 'middle ground' setup which will cover most eventualities - but of course if you then have the bad luck to run into something that you hadn't planned for then you are screwed.

 

 

 

 

 

Wrayeth

tech2 gear is player made only, bloody expensive, and only marginally more effective than tech1 gear (like 10-15% better imho) and also needs lots of skills to use

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Actually, tech II weaponry is a base 20% more effective than its tech 1 counterpart, and, with the specialization skill needed to use it in the first place, has another 2%-10%  added on top of that, depending on the specialization skill level.

Moreover, a ship fully kitted out with tech II components will also have a tank that's roughly 15% more effective.

If you combine both tech II weapons and a tech II tank, your ship is significantly more effective than its tech I counterpart.

That said, setup and tactics can make the tech II advantage largely irrelevant - for instance, an opponent who can't lock you can't use the advantage having tech II weaponry would give him.  An opponent caught by a trap will likewise find his tech II advantage negated.  As long as the tech I ship fits a tank strong enough to stay alive and keep the tech II ship scrambled until his buddies arrive from the next system over, then it doesn't matter that the tech II ship has a better individual damage output - after all, four tech I ships easily have triple his firepower.

Wrayeth

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Originally posted by Hardin

Anyway the moral of this story is that the skills/age of a character doesn't matter. Yes it gives you an advantage and extra flexibility but a clever enemy making the best use of their ships strengths and using untypical setups can take anyone - no matter how rich/experienced by surprise - a bit like Wrayeth  did above...

It is one of the strengths of the game that there is no 'I win' button. There is no setup that cannot be defeated by a clever opponent. It doesn't matter what your age is.

If that battleship had been escorted by a single tech 1 frigate with warp scrambler piloted by a two week old noob my 60 million isk Armageddon (with approx 80 million isk worth of equipment would not have got out alive

Of course it is not always possible to plan each and every engagement and you often have to find a 'middle ground' setup which will cover most eventualities - but of course if you then have the bad luck to run into something that you hadn't planned for then you are screwed.

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Good read.  It really shows how skillpoints are, overall, less important than player skill and the proper setup to fight your opponent.

It also illustrates how even new players can participate and be extremely useful in PvP - as you said, if that raven had been escorted by a two-week noob in a frigate with a warp scrambler, it would've been game over for you.  How many other games can say the same?