PVP and what really makes MMOG's fun

Kriminal99

I was reading about a get together recently where designers from many major online games from competing companies shared ideas.  Unfortunately from what I read they have no idea what its like to play their games, and it may be a while before major companies are producing online games anywhere near as fun as they could be.

Anyways I'll just share my ideas as a expert video game player and someone who spends alot of time thinking. 

The first mistake that is made is usually that online games depend on static pre written to keep players interested in the game.  The main problem with this is that even years of content developed will be exhausted by a player in a matter of a month or less.  Some mmo's try to drag out their content by repeating it, like AO's QL system or reusing mobs with different colors/names etc.  People really aren't fooled by this, in fact IMO it makes a game even more depressing and boring than if it didn't repeat like this and you reached the end. 

While developers are finally starting to understand this, so far the best they can come up with is to try and have players able to develop content.    As if people are going to pay 10-12 bucks a month to develop part of a video game.  And this is pretty much what has been done up until now anyways, as most companies have been keeping volunteer staff that run events etc.  Unfortunately these people usually end up doing more damage than good.  To sum it up they are doing it for "personal reasons" not money which means they are always going to be using the power they are given to effect your game with their ill-concieved ideas and values.  Whats more, what little content they are able to add to the game is once again used up much faster than it can be created. 

Lets look at a trick mmo companies use to try and drag out play times artificially - wait times.  This is simply put, equivalent to torture to a player.  Weather its after death impairment or long travel times which consist of nothing more than holding the forward key.  During this time the player is not having fun, and more than likely is trying to figure out why the hell they are playing this game.  I will explain later but for right now suffice it to say the longer a player has to think about why they are playing a game the more they are going to get sick of it and want to quit.  Anyways - there are 2 things that fall into this category which developers may not realize:  leveling where already mastered obstacles must be overcome to progress, and gaining equipment where already mastered obstacles must be overcome.  Since the player is not actively seeking a way to over come the obstacle, their mind is free to wonder the same as if they were doing nothing waiting for SI to be up.  Before I leave this subject, I wanted to say this-  This problem is most often counteracted in games by players using the time to communicate with each other.  Joking around and interacting with other people is fun and will keep a player from getting sick of a game.  But this is not a limiting factor in the enjoyment of a game, as any game can provide this.  So when a game appears that takes into consideration all the things I am describing, games which depend almost solely on player communication for enjoyment (AO for example) will quickly be deserted. 

The answer to achieve content worthy of a continuous game is really quite simple.  Use the players as obstacles to each other.  You still make a game where a character has meaning, he can achieve possesions, maybe gain skills and abillities, all the stuff that exists in a role playing game.  You just put all the rewards behind other unpredictable players rather than easily predictable ai.  (Except for maybe the early stages of the game)  As long as players play the game there will be an endless supply of unique obstacles for any one player. 

Make sure the players are free to use all their rl skills and abillities so that they really do always provide a unique challenge to each other.  In game terms that means you make available many different strategies and combination of strategies.  The less control the player has over combat and the less things they can do the less fun it is, weather they are fighting ai or each other.  Neocron with an somewhat fps combat system has the best I have seen so far - the player has no downtime during combat if he stops controlling or strategizing for a second he will die.  Yet the limited ranges of weapons and the target aim time required to hit targets keeps its combat from being as haphazard, impersonal, and purely twitch skill based as pure fps'es.  (works kinda like deus ex targeting)

  Next- The whole thing that makes a rpg more fun than say a fps game, is the idea that even if you are not the best now you can still get better.  In an fps game a player logs in with the intention of conquering the world.  After 10 minutes of play, he knows his place among the other players, and unless its a uncontested # 1 (which almost never happens unless the person has an unfair advantage) then they get bored and leave having realized they are not going to get the respect they are after because they cannot stand out among the rest.  In a rpg game, you may not be the best at the beginning but the more you play the stronger you get.  This "getting better" is represented by levels and equipment.  I will get to levels later, right now I'm going to talk about the equipment.  If the person aquires all the equipment that could help him, and still doesn't hold an uncontested #1 he will once again get bored and leave.   However- THere is a slight window, a little different for each person depending on their personality, where they can loose and still not give up because they think they can get better just based on their real life skills and adapting to the game.  This is the point where the game can turn the previous problem that only one person can be an uncontested # 1 and turn it to its favor.  When the person looses but still has not given up hope, then you take away some of their equipment.  Then the player must regain the equipment, and it is just like the first time they gained the equipment it is fun because they are looking forward with the idea that they can get better.  That is unless, like I said before, he must go through repetitive obstacles to regain the equipment. (which once again is the same as being forced to wait)  This also has the added benefit of making confrontation more thrilling- the player knows before and during the fight that if they fail they will not be able to compete at that level for a while after.  Think: bottom of the 9th, last batter up, bases loaded, 2 outs, down 2 pts. 

If you have put 1 and 1 together to get 2 up to this point, then you realize that you can kill 2 birds with one stone.  Players need each other as obstacles to wealth, and players need to risk their wealth to make confrontations more thrilling and to prevent stagnation.  So you can solve both problems by giving some of the losers possesions to the winner.  Anotherwords - gambling on the outcome.  There are reasons why gambling is so addictive - and I have just named all of them.  However just like in real life, people will not like gambling with unfair terms.  If a brand new level 2 player has no chance to beat the level 50 player who decides to come slaughter him, then he shouldnt be able to lose ANYTHING to that player (Including travel/wait time or needing services to regain strength).  If he has a 1 in 50 chance of beating that player, then he should only risk 1/50th of what the other player risks on the outcome of that fight.  However, besides players level, you must not forget that players each have their own real life skill level that determines their chances of winning as well.  Therefore a system which ranks players based on their success and forces them to risk wealth according to their rank would go far towards the enjoyment in a pvp based game.  The other thing to remember here:  Unlike real life gambling, a mmo developer can add value or risk to either side to any degree they want without benefiting or hurting the other side.  Up until now this has been seen as requiring travel back to a desired location after death, requiring services to regain full strength, maybe giving the winning player experience or money for winning that does not depend on the other players losses.  To take advantage of this, each player should be given a little more gain for winning than he should get just based on the risk he is taking.  But not so much that it makes his losses for losing meaningless. 

Anyways I'll leave off for now, any comments from anyone?

thePuck

Your theory fails to take into account all of the people who simply play games for the fun of playing them...being the "uncontested #1" isn't very important.  I am sure anyone who thinks PK is the answer to all the problems of mmorpgs thinks anyone who doesn't like PK is a "carebear", but the fact is that companies want everyone to play, not just the "killer" type.  And according the sales figures that led to the changes in UO and other games, the majority of players just want to play, not fight each other constantly.

As to your idea about what makes RPGs more fun than FPS, well, that, and the fact that they are ROLE PLAYING GAMES, you know, as in you role play someone else who has adventures. 

Finwe

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Originally posted by thePuck

As to your idea about what makes RPGs more fun than FPS, well, that, and the fact that they are ROLE PLAYING GAMES, you know, as in you role play someone else who has adventures. 

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I think you summed it up rather well while confrontating other players is needed, in actuality most roleplaying is with other people....not with monsters, now when it turns into kill a orc 300 times to level and get the uber sword of impending doom, its no longer RPing. Now what I think would be an awesome RPing game is where everything depends on the players. No monsters at all, and where the server holds about 100,000 people at once. Why? Well, when you hunt, you'd actually be hunting other people. It could hold infinite possibilities if done right. It'd add alot more well, RPing, and immersion. Because everyone would be playing a role, hunter, hunted, etc.

 

Now the topic poster mentioned something about how "loss of time" in death and traveling is not fun, and makes the game stupid and redundant pretty much. Well, without no risk, and no loss, what is to be considered an award, there needs to be equilibrium. So death needs to definitely be an impact on the character, i've found games dumbed down for "carebear use" so to speak. And it's usually one of the dullest games you'd ever play.