Originally posted by Lamethrower I don't think that's it at all. I think the reason behind it is most people just want to be left alone. Video games are a release. People work hard all day, put up with bosses they hate, have job stress, etc. and when they get home and play a game, they just want to relax, do what they like to do and enjoy themselves for a while--NOT have to put up with some moron wanting to impose his style of play on the other person or to have the frustrating, anger, and hassle of being ganked by a gang of thugs who's idea of blowing off steam is to steam someone else. When one's life goal (or something one enjoys or considers something worth bragging about) is controlling a sector of nonexistent space in a video game somewhere and getting to exert power and authority in that meaningless medium--power they lack in reality, most likely--that's a pretty sad thing. The desire of some people to "control" is a real turn off for the masses.
[quote]Originally posted by fizzle322 they can't stand it that that you may need to ask permission to mine somewhere or that you may need to apologize for running your mouth, or that you may need others to simply survive.
This is a clan-based PVP game, and most people can't play it.[/b][/quote]
It sounds like we both just said the same thing.
You don't like being affected by others. You want to do what you want to do, anywhere, anytime, without saying "please" or "may I."
If you get angry at being affected, this definitely aint the game for you.
I may be 3 days old in EVE,but I know one thing. The online community in this game makes all the MMORPG's I've played in the past 2 years seem like immature child's games. I've received help on every question,already I've had an Evemail asking to join a new PvP-based Corp that plans to bump members up to a higher Corp as they train new players. Blizzard,are you listening? You might want to take down notes on how PvP should be.
On-topic. The real-time skill advancement system,which is passive,I'm sure would put people off. I prefer games where skills can be learned over time through use. Like a skill ranking system. (even though this is a bit of a grind) This is a brand new system to me,but I like it. I can log-in before I go to sleep,slap a skill on,sleep and come back on to learn it. But some people I'd imagine want to know what skills are the best. The answer; every single one. The problem; you haven't got the 14 or 30 days to learn them all. (on the trial/CD trial) So you must aim towards a good target. But it's possible,there's no level constrictions in the way,only TIME.
Another possible hating thing. Too much open PvP. Well quite frankly I've been waiting for a game with this much depth in player combat. But some people would like a little cushion of SOLO protection,which of course is there. And when they get sniped by gate campers,or attacked by multiple people,GANKFEST comes to mind. Ahahaha,but! BUT!
Unlike other games,every single player kill in EVE has a PURPOSE! Ransoming. Looting the cargo. Selling the dead clone. Killing a hated member of another corp. Killing a player who didn't have permission to be there from the local player-based owners. Killing a player who has insulted/killed the wrong people in the course of the game. A player testing out his new weapons/ship. There's no player-killing for the sake of annoying a person here. Like killing a non-honour kill in WOW. You can be killed whenever,with good enough reason. And,you can form TEAMS and kill people back. The open PvP can both flow and crash in your direction.
Third possible hating. Having to team up to get anywhere. What's the matter? Wanted to be the solo hero who has all the glory and wealth? You mean like the thousands of other level 60's in WOW,or the 100's of other rich people? Pfffft. In EVE you CAN BE the solo hero,but you have to WORK for it. You can be the nice pirate in a team full of hardcore pirates who kill everything and everyone. You can be the defender of an area,as you charge in and destroy the pirates before they kill that expensive mining ship. You can be THE SOLO HERO AS PART OF THE TEAM! Or you can lone wolf it,but that too will require much more work and on-the-spot co-operation with local alliances/corps.
EVE truely isn't for everyone I can understand that,but this game,for those who are tired of limited PvP and subdued team wars,this is the game for you. Just be prepared to take a while to settle in,the community will help. And no 1337 speak or smacktalk either,unless like me you REQUEST it. Lol.
Just don't tell me that EVE is lesser complex or mature than WOW/other MMORPG. That's like saying Einstein was nothing compared to a ditzy blonde girl.
Originally posted by Suitepee I may be 3 days old in EVE,but I know one thing. -Snip-
Man you know a lot about this game from just 3 days play, hell you probably know as much about 0.0 workings as half the 0.4-0.1 border Corps. This indepth knowledge about what to expect from the 0.0 systems is what a player needs before ever actually steppin out into it. Hell any one could dive head long into 0.0 but only the players who know what to expect will live. There is no way a lonewolf will be able to break the bottle necks out to 0.0, not unless they are in an interceptor or undercloak, but not many would leave their BS behind, no they will try and break a gate camp with 1 BS... The key that I have found about Eve for anything worth whiled to do is to be in a gang, and that is it. There is no way to get anywhere without forming groups. And mind you thats what CCP wants players to do. PvP and player grouping is Eve, no lonewolf, glory hog can really live a fulfilling life, they'll run into a lot of fights, and they will run from a lot of fights.
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
Hell any one could dive head long into 0.0 but only the players who know what to expect will live. There is no way a lonewolf will be able to break the bottle necks out to 0.0, not unless they are in an interceptor or undercloak, but not many would leave their BS behind, no they will try and break a gate camp with 1 BS...
The key that I have found about Eve for anything worth whiled to do is to be in a gang, and that is it. There is no way to get anywhere without forming groups. And mind you thats what CCP wants players to do. PvP and player grouping is Eve, no lonewolf, glory hog can really live a fulfilling life, they'll run from a lot of fights, and they will run from a lot of fights.
Yes,but 0.0 isn't the only place pirates could camp. Also,what's to stop a "well reputed" lonewolf from tagging along with a passer-by Corp group to pass through the 0.0 space,TECHNICALLY on his own without being part of a Corp,but being smuggled along by the Corp team quantity.
Although you're right about team PvP. Not as if that's a problem of course. And lone wolf is hard,but some people will WANT to try. Even as a challenge.
To quote someone from the EVE forums; "This is the only game I've played where a 6-month noob can beat a 2-year old veteran". Likewise,what's stopping a 3-day old player from commenting on the game like a 3-year old player? The fact I suggested a counter-statement to you commenting that lone players cannot break through 0.0 gate campers,again perhaps suggests how complex EVE is.
For every argument there is a counter-argument? Unlike other games,where every argument ends with levels and better-specced classes.
I've been playing EVE off and on for the past 2 years. I usually play for a month or 2, then quit for 6 months then come back to see what's changed. Everytime I come back I am amazed at the advancements EVE keeps making in all around gameplay. The real-time skill system is still a major thorn in my side but I've learned to accept it, only because the rest of the game is stellar. Probably my favorite aspect of EVE is the learning curve...you just never stop learning new things and I love that.
After coming back last month I think I'm staying for a while. This game is just getting too good not to.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Let me give you an example of about 10 minutes of play in Eve.
In fleet (which means, while in a gang with an approved Alliance Fleet Commander) I normally fly an Interceptor. Interceptors are just about THE fastest thing in EVE, hence the name. They are also made of paper. In an Intie, if you stop moving, you could be potshotted by a noob in his first cruiser. Keep in mind as well, my Alliance insists you have a specific voice application installed for all fleet ops, and if you're not able to use it you can't join the op. So all of this is happening voice.
Jump into the first system with a station outside our controlled territory and notice a few hostiles in system. I am lead scout.
"Alright, we have 3 hostiles in here.. gate is clear. Checking station."
"Ok. We'll wait for your report before jumping in."
I Jump to station and notice "1 hostile in a.... Stabber. 45 k from station on the wrong side. If you came in system and went to station at 15 you'd be about 25 from him"
"Jump jump.. You ok?"
"Dude. Its a stabber. Yeah! *chuckle*"
"Ok.. try to get a dot of scram on him. we're inbound"
I start running at him like a bat out of hell and he warps off, running "He ran to the opposite gate guys.. he ran..going after him"
"Give us status when you get there, we're inbound to the station"
"Station was clear 5 seconds ago. On the way."
I jump to the next gate, wisely @ 100 km instead of the default 15. My opponent had jumped in at 60 as he was 40k from me. I run at him again, and he warps away again.. but then...
"Clear channel!!!! New hostiles.... YYYYY in Vagabond and ..... AAAAAAAA in a claw! They are on the gate at 15km! Im baiting them now.. they are 85 from me"
"Got it man. we're coming in... make sure they dont get you.. Vaga will eat you up"
"Don't I know it.......keeping them.. ok they are 25 away from the gate..."
Fleet warps in at 15. I do a 180 and bolt straight at the Vagabond. We have a Stilleto in gang that gets him scrammed with 2 dots.. the claw gets away. I close as his shield gives away and rain fire and brimstone on him.. he is armor tanked?? He is running away fast and trying to kill the Stilleto so I get close enough and SMACK. "Got a dot on him mate.. gogo!" One dot of scram and I web him, which slows him down by 85%. The Stiletto bolts as he is almost into structure. Suddenly, the Vagabond pops as a Dominix with us had deployed 5 sentry drones, and ranged him. I look down at my display.. 5% into structure. Phew. Im ok, and I check.. we are 80km away from the gate.. no WONDER it was so hard to kill that byatch! Thank god I was using T2 ammunition! The other BS had waited at SS because they didnt want to lose a high value BS to a gank squad, but we managed to pull it off with our Domi friend.
"Whew.. damnit. I need rep .. get QQQQQQ to scout"
"Good job guys, get a remote on him WWWWWWW"
I close and get repaired.. and the Stilleto pilot calls out "I got the stabber!!!! Scrammed by planet V at 60k!!....."
...so thats how it worked out that time, though I've edited out a lot of voice stuff that wasn't dialogue. Like "Primary, XXXXX Secondary YY.. shit he's gone.. ok get him get him!" Other times, I have been the one who got popped, which is always a hazard in an inty. But overall, I'd say I've caused more ISK in damage than I've taken, so I feel alright about it.
Now.. if long periods of boredom broken up by short periods of absolute panic aren't for you, dont play Eve! Well, that is if you don't go the slow, long way or join an already established industrial corp. Thats really the way to do it if you want peace and quiet most of the time.
Why do people only class fighting as PvP? There is only one server, so if you are a miner (what most would call 'carebear') you are competing with every other player that mines for the limited resources of the universe. If you run complexes, then you are competing with all the other complex runners trying to do it. Same goes for trading (either NPC or player made items), Manufacture (with the exception of T2 which is mostly cartel like), Pos owners compete to get cheap Ice, Even agent runners compete to get their spoils sold for the best price. EvE is PvP, because with only one server, its dog eat dog out there.
I am member in a tech II production corps. we have no cartel but responce on the market.
We have however contact with other corps about the mineral prices and also buy large amount of them. We need also a lot of tech II components.
We know who build other tech II modules or ammo but a certain price is low enough. Building something cost isk and manufactory time thats time we cant use the BPO. Customers pay for that. It look like there are some cartels but that isnot true.
We sell medium armor repair II and medium shield boosters II and some more modules, but we do the same as others take as much as we can. So the medium shield booster cost a lot more than the Large shield booster. Some people start selling them almost at manufactory price, which lowers also the BPO price.
Originally posted by Lamethrower I don't think that's it at all. I think the reason behind it is most people just want to be left alone. Video games are a release. People work hard all day, put up with bosses they hate, have job stress, etc. and when they get home and play a game, they just want to relax, do what they like to do and enjoy themselves for a while--NOT have to put up with some moron wanting to impose his style of play on the other person or to have the frustrating, anger, and hassle of being ganked by a gang of thugs who's idea of blowing off steam is to steam someone else. When one's life goal (or something one enjoys or considers something worth bragging about) is controlling a sector of nonexistent space in a video game somewhere and getting to exert power and authority in that meaningless medium--power they lack in reality, most likely--that's a pretty sad thing. The desire of some people to "control" is a real turn off for the masses.
When will this debate end? I would argue is started back in the days of UO. The dev's woke up one day, created Trammel and the term carebear was born. Next SOE added to it by giving you big swirly lines pointing you to every place you need to go in that game. Its all been capped off with WoW where you are a god as soon as you pass from the server queue.
Some people can't handle sitting in the cold depths of space in a small pod after their ship has gone nova.
There is a term "might makes right". Its draconian and comes from our own history. In EvE this is the law. We're very sorry that you do not like this form of play. However, its unlikely anyone has a gun to your head forcing you to participate.
It may be best to realize that this is an international game and there are actually players out there that grow tired of the swirly magical lines leading to victory. Games like that become very cookie cutter and you can only play so many of them before you scream in agony over how mentally incompent %90 of the developer teams appear to be.
Eve is not a treadmill like EQ2 or WoW. EvE is INTENDED to be a game where the strongest wins. Your strength is not measured in how many npc's you can kill, but your position realtive to other players. You might not be the strongest....you may have to wheel and deal with those that are bigger then you. Like other posters say, you may have to go on public forums and lick the boots of the big fish in order to keep your player corp from being destoryed every time they undock.
Justice in EvE is not maintained by the game mechanics, justice is maintained by the players, their associations and their interactions. We're all very sorry that you can't go to 0.0 space and mine the good stuff after a tough day at the office.....but many a corps and many an alliances have actually FOUGHT , lost ships and pods (and thus THIER time) to secure that space their own. Chances are they don't give a rats ass you are upset you cant take from them for free or without reprocussion. And yes, the boggiemen are likely to be sitting on the other end of that .4 gate because you failed to bring friends and /or warp core stablizers.
The EvE universe is not some Utophia universe like Azeroth or Norrath2 where you can go and be all powerful in 2 months. Its dog eat dog. I could go on and on about your post, but the bottom line is you have made the right decision to not be here.
If you wanted to be in the universe you would realize that for every gang of thugs that are out there ready to blow you up there are 2 more waiting to blow them up. If you wanted to be there you would realize your only true challenge is to decide who you pick as friends.
Unlike WoW and EQ2 you can't do it alone here and you will never be all powerful.
Originally posted by Rekindle Originally posted by Lamethrower I don't think that's it at all. I think the reason behind it is most people just want to be left alone. Video games are a release. People work hard all day, put up with bosses they hate, have job stress, etc. and when they get home and play a game, they just want to relax, do what they like to do and enjoy themselves for a while--NOT have to put up with some moron wanting to impose his style of play on the other person or to have the frustrating, anger, and hassle of being ganked by a gang of thugs who's idea of blowing off steam is to steam someone else. When one's life goal (or something one enjoys or considers something worth bragging about) is controlling a sector of nonexistent space in a video game somewhere and getting to exert power and authority in that meaningless medium--power they lack in reality, most likely--that's a pretty sad thing. The desire of some people to "control" is a real turn off for the masses. When will this debate end? I would argue is started back in the days of UO. The dev's woke up one day, created Trammel and the term carebear was born. Next SOE added to it by giving you big swirly lines pointing you to every place you need to go in that game. Its all been capped off with WoW where you are a god as soon as you pass from the server queue. Some people can't handle sitting in the cold depths of space in a small pod after their ship has gone nova. There is a term "might makes right". Its draconian and comes from our own history. In EvE this is the law. We're very sorry that you do not like this form of play. However, its unlikely anyone has a gun to your head forcing you to participate. It may be best to realize that this is an international game and there are actually players out there that grow tired of the swirly magical lines leading to victory. Games like that become very cookie cutter and you can only play so many of them before you scream in agony over how mentally incompent %90 of the developer teams appear to be. Eve is not a treadmill like EQ2 or WoW. EvE is INTENDED to be a game where the strongest wins. Your strength is not measured in how many npc's you can kill, but your position realtive to other players. You might not be the strongest....you may have to wheel and deal with those that are bigger then you. Like other posters say, you may have to go on public forums and lick the boots of the big fish in order to keep your player corp from being destoryed every time they undock. Justice in EvE is not maintained by the game mechanics, justice is maintained by the players, their associations and their interactions. We're all very sorry that you can't go to 0.0 space and mine the good stuff after a tough day at the office.....but many a corps and many an alliances have actually FOUGHT , lost ships and pods (and thus THIER time) to secure that space their own. Chances are they don't give a rats ass you are upset you cant take from them for free or without reprocussion. And yes, the boggiemen are likely to be sitting on the other end of that .4 gate because you failed to bring friends and /or warp core stablizers. The EvE universe is not some Utophia universe like Azeroth or Norrath2 where you can go and be all powerful in 2 months. Its dog eat dog. I could go on and on about your post, but the bottom line is you have made the right decision to not be here. If you wanted to be in the universe you would realize that for every gang of thugs that are out there ready to blow you up there are 2 more waiting to blow them up. If you wanted to be there you would realize your only true challenge is to decide who you pick as friends. Unlike WoW and EQ2 you can't do it alone here and you will never be all powerful.
QFT - Holy schit that was beautiful.
They should write that on the back of the EvE box and on the Eve website, it would save alot of carebears from having to cry on their pillows.
Eve has its place, but it is a very isolated niche game. Not only is it hard Sci-fi, but it is seriously PvP and unforgiving. It has a skill system that does not reward effort, and an economy that is weighted, intentionally, towards a very few people who hold the Tech II BPOs. The theory is that this creates more conflict, oppression, and gameplay opportunity.
Eve has JUST hit 100,000 players after being out for 3+ years.
WoW has quite a few more than that, and had more than that in the first two weeks.
It is absolutely true that Eve brings out qualities, people and intrigue like no other game out there. It is also true that few people want to have to deal with that sort of game. Those that do are die hard fans and will look for PvP, call WoW names, etc. I admit, I sat down with someone while he was playing WoW recently and had a visceral reaction, as if I was watching a child's game. I felt myself wanting to shout 'but, whats the point! You can't LOSE anything...'
But, the point is simple. Eve is not only not for everyone, it is for very few. Those who stick with Eve for more than a few months are rare, 7 months is their make or break number and they have something on the order of 75% attrition at that point.
Why? Eve is a hard game in more ways than one. People want challenge, but they do not want reminders of real life staring them in the face day after day as they trade, buy things from corporations, or get smacked in local by arrogant pricks. Does that make them carebears? Hey, to each his own. The majority doesn't want to have to deal with the kinds of harsh realities that are thrust upon you in Eve in a thing that is supposed to be -relaxing- to them. To them, they want a challenge like the challenge in winning at cards, or a sporting event. That's where WoW comes in.
CCP has made a number of errors in Eve, but they have succeeded in drawing and holding a rabid base of hardcore players that look down on every other MMOG out there. They may not have big numbers, but their cash flow is secure.
I happen to be one of those players, and although Eve may not always be my first game, it will always be my second. It is Unique, and I have found my place within it, and I know I can leave it alone for a month, come back and be able to compete and function. But then, I'm one of the lucky ones.
So, if you hate Eve ok. There are things about Eve that I hate too, and that I think are broken beyond belief. I still come back though, because of the people, and because of the opportunity to play in a game where there are no winners or losers, only survivors.
Hey man, I think you make some very good points and you do so in a non agressive way....good reply.
I can see your point that the majority of people out there prefer something like WoW for its ease. As many others are starting to speak up and say, we're entering an age where games have become much easier. WoW is definatley a testimate to some type of playstyle.
However, IMO its depressing to see a game as simple and mindless as WoW wiping the floor. In this day and age of (IMO) crappy MMOs that offer the same drival over and over, I for one and very happy to see alternatives like Eve out there.
Is EVE the cats' meow of MMORPG games? Like you said, to each their own. However, there is something of value in making games a bit challenging and slightly harsh. (Personally, I'd like to argue that EvE isn't really all that harsh if you got your wits about you).
But your original point, that many don't like this playstyle is taken.
There are many reasons I think why many people shy away from EVE. Open PvP is one of them. But others are misperceptions about the training system (with power folks being turned off by not being able to catch up, as if that were important to begin with), bad experiences getting ganked in lowsec space and losing everything due to player stupidity (yes, the n00b was stupid, but EVE is very unforgiving for making stupid mistakes, as a game), and the reality that if you want to play the game alone, it will get pretty boring after a while (and a fair number of MMO players apparently actually do NOT like playing multiplayer, or being in corps/guilds). I think all of those are reasons why people shy away from EVE.
There are some beautiful posts in this discussion. I love EVE and even if I get bored of it for awhile I always go back. I joined an excellent corp that was very active in an alliance and the teamspeak rendition of your first ten minutes in EVE that someone posted was right dead on.
This game is exciting! You join a team of real people and work together for real goals in a more real PvP setting than any other MMORPG. This isn't just fluff to entertain yourself this game has meat! You have territory to defend. You have player owned stations that everyone has invested alot of time and money into maintaining and defending. You have real reasons to get into that ship and join your crew out in the wilds of untamed space. You have to make friends, strike deals with enemies, and pick your battles. You have gameplay strategy, but you also have political strategy and that is where people start to wimp out. They can't handle having to confront another player and take what is theirs. It's about teamwork and companionship. Also it's about at the end of the day where you, hopefully, come back with your ship in one piece and the spoils of the enemy in your cargohold.
Oh, and the kiddies ganking people in .3 space? 9 times out of 10 if that's what they are they go squish when an intelligent group of people go and spank their asses. That's another satisfying thing about open PvP. Someone steal your kill? KABOOM! Someone running their mouth and annoying everyone in local chat? KABOOM! This has to be the most unfriendly game towards greifing in existance because the system dosen't protect them from the player base getting rid of them. You may find griefers, but they don't last long. Especially if their actions damage an alliance. They soon find themselves corpless and hated by the community at large. They end up leaving.
Oh, and if you are having problems mining in 0.0, why not find out who runs that territory and ask the CEO? Sometimes as long as they know you are not an enemy they'll strike a deal with you or even let you mine for free. This game has a very active community and very defined territories. Try talking to people it works great. You have to interact with the community to enjoy this game to it's full potential.
I'll stop now but part with this. there is no other MMORPG with a community as mature and as fun to play with as EVE's and it's the community, and the complexity, that keeps me coming back to it.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
Comments
[quote]Originally posted by fizzle322 they can't stand it that that you may need to ask permission to mine somewhere or that you may need to apologize for running your mouth, or that you may need others to simply survive.
This is a clan-based PVP game, and most people can't play it.[/b][/quote]
It sounds like we both just said the same thing.
You don't like being affected by others. You want to do what you want to do, anywhere, anytime, without saying "please" or "may I."
If you get angry at being affected, this definitely aint the game for you.
I may be 3 days old in EVE,but I know one thing. The online community in this game makes all the MMORPG's I've played in the past 2 years seem like immature child's games. I've received help on every question,already I've had an Evemail asking to join a new PvP-based Corp that plans to bump members up to a higher Corp as they train new players. Blizzard,are you listening? You might want to take down notes on how PvP should be.
On-topic. The real-time skill advancement system,which is passive,I'm sure would put people off. I prefer games where skills can be learned over time through use. Like a skill ranking system. (even though this is a bit of a grind) This is a brand new system to me,but I like it. I can log-in before I go to sleep,slap a skill on,sleep and come back on to learn it. But some people I'd imagine want to know what skills are the best. The answer; every single one. The problem; you haven't got the 14 or 30 days to learn them all. (on the trial/CD trial) So you must aim towards a good target. But it's possible,there's no level constrictions in the way,only TIME.
Another possible hating thing. Too much open PvP. Well quite frankly I've been waiting for a game with this much depth in player combat. But some people would like a little cushion of SOLO protection,which of course is there. And when they get sniped by gate campers,or attacked by multiple people,GANKFEST comes to mind. Ahahaha,but! BUT!
Unlike other games,every single player kill in EVE has a PURPOSE! Ransoming. Looting the cargo. Selling the dead clone. Killing a hated member of another corp. Killing a player who didn't have permission to be there from the local player-based owners. Killing a player who has insulted/killed the wrong people in the course of the game. A player testing out his new weapons/ship. There's no player-killing for the sake of annoying a person here. Like killing a non-honour kill in WOW. You can be killed whenever,with good enough reason. And,you can form TEAMS and kill people back. The open PvP can both flow and crash in your direction.
Third possible hating. Having to team up to get anywhere. What's the matter? Wanted to be the solo hero who has all the glory and wealth? You mean like the thousands of other level 60's in WOW,or the 100's of other rich people? Pfffft. In EVE you CAN BE the solo hero,but you have to WORK for it. You can be the nice pirate in a team full of hardcore pirates who kill everything and everyone. You can be the defender of an area,as you charge in and destroy the pirates before they kill that expensive mining ship. You can be THE SOLO HERO AS PART OF THE TEAM! Or you can lone wolf it,but that too will require much more work and on-the-spot co-operation with local alliances/corps.
EVE truely isn't for everyone I can understand that,but this game,for those who are tired of limited PvP and subdued team wars,this is the game for you. Just be prepared to take a while to settle in,the community will help. And no 1337 speak or smacktalk either,unless like me you REQUEST it. Lol.
Just don't tell me that EVE is lesser complex or mature than WOW/other MMORPG. That's like saying Einstein was nothing compared to a ditzy blonde girl.
Originally posted by Suitepee
I may be 3 days old in EVE,but I know one thing. -Snip-
Man you know a lot about this game from just 3 days play, hell you probably know as much about 0.0 workings as half the 0.4-0.1 border Corps. This indepth knowledge about what to expect from the 0.0 systems is what a player needs before ever actually steppin out into it. Hell any one could dive head long into 0.0 but only the players who know what to expect will live. There is no way a lonewolf will be able to break the bottle necks out to 0.0, not unless they are in an interceptor or undercloak, but not many would leave their BS behind, no they will try and break a gate camp with 1 BS...
The key that I have found about Eve for anything worth whiled to do is to be in a gang, and that is it. There is no way to get anywhere without forming groups. And mind you thats what CCP wants players to do. PvP and player grouping is Eve, no lonewolf, glory hog can really live a fulfilling life, they'll run into a lot of fights, and they will run from a lot of fights.
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
Yes,but 0.0 isn't the only place pirates could camp. Also,what's to stop a "well reputed" lonewolf from tagging along with a passer-by Corp group to pass through the 0.0 space,TECHNICALLY on his own without being part of a Corp,but being smuggled along by the Corp team quantity.
Although you're right about team PvP. Not as if that's a problem of course. And lone wolf is hard,but some people will WANT to try. Even as a challenge.
To quote someone from the EVE forums; "This is the only game I've played where a 6-month noob can beat a 2-year old veteran". Likewise,what's stopping a 3-day old player from commenting on the game like a 3-year old player?
The fact I suggested a counter-statement to you commenting that lone players cannot break through 0.0 gate campers,again perhaps suggests how complex EVE is.
For every argument there is a counter-argument? Unlike other games,where every argument ends with levels and better-specced classes.
I've been playing EVE off and on for the past 2 years. I usually play for a month or 2, then quit for 6 months then come back to see what's changed. Everytime I come back I am amazed at the advancements EVE keeps making in all around gameplay. The real-time skill system is still a major thorn in my side but I've learned to accept it, only because the rest of the game is stellar. Probably my favorite aspect of EVE is the learning curve...you just never stop learning new things and I love that.
After coming back last month I think I'm staying for a while. This game is just getting too good not to.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Let me give you an example of about 10 minutes of play in Eve.
In fleet (which means, while in a gang with an approved Alliance Fleet Commander) I normally fly an Interceptor. Interceptors are just about THE fastest thing in EVE, hence the name. They are also made of paper. In an Intie, if you stop moving, you could be potshotted by a noob in his first cruiser. Keep in mind as well, my Alliance insists you have a specific voice application installed for all fleet ops, and if you're not able to use it you can't join the op. So all of this is happening voice.
Jump into the first system with a station outside our controlled territory and notice a few hostiles in system. I am lead scout.
"Alright, we have 3 hostiles in here.. gate is clear. Checking station."
"Ok. We'll wait for your report before jumping in."
I Jump to station and notice "1 hostile in a.... Stabber. 45 k from station on the wrong side. If you came in system and went to station at 15 you'd be about 25 from him"
"Jump jump.. You ok?"
"Dude. Its a stabber. Yeah! *chuckle*"
"Ok.. try to get a dot of scram on him. we're inbound"
I start running at him like a bat out of hell and he warps off, running "He ran to the opposite gate guys.. he ran..going after him"
"Give us status when you get there, we're inbound to the station"
"Station was clear 5 seconds ago. On the way."
I jump to the next gate, wisely @ 100 km instead of the default 15. My opponent had jumped in at 60 as he was 40k from me. I run at him again, and he warps away again.. but then...
"Clear channel!!!! New hostiles.... YYYYY in Vagabond and ..... AAAAAAAA in a claw! They are on the gate at 15km! Im baiting them now.. they are 85 from me"
"Got it man. we're coming in... make sure they dont get you.. Vaga will eat you up"
"Don't I know it.......keeping them.. ok they are 25 away from the gate..."
Fleet warps in at 15. I do a 180 and bolt straight at the Vagabond. We have a Stilleto in gang that gets him scrammed with 2 dots.. the claw gets away. I close as his shield gives away and rain fire and brimstone on him.. he is armor tanked?? He is running away fast and trying to kill the Stilleto so I get close enough and SMACK. "Got a dot on him mate.. gogo!" One dot of scram and I web him, which slows him down by 85%. The Stiletto bolts as he is almost into structure. Suddenly, the Vagabond pops as a Dominix with us had deployed 5 sentry drones, and ranged him. I look down at my display.. 5% into structure. Phew. Im ok, and I check.. we are 80km away from the gate.. no WONDER it was so hard to kill that byatch! Thank god I was using T2 ammunition! The other BS had waited at SS because they didnt want to lose a high value BS to a gank squad, but we managed to pull it off with our Domi friend.
"Whew.. damnit. I need rep .. get QQQQQQ to scout"
"Good job guys, get a remote on him WWWWWWW"
I close and get repaired.. and the Stilleto pilot calls out "I got the stabber!!!! Scrammed by planet V at 60k!!....."
...so thats how it worked out that time, though I've edited out a lot of voice stuff that wasn't dialogue. Like "Primary, XXXXX Secondary YY.. shit he's gone.. ok get him get him!" Other times, I have been the one who got popped, which is always a hazard in an inty. But overall, I'd say I've caused more ISK in damage than I've taken, so I feel alright about it.
Now.. if long periods of boredom broken up by short periods of absolute panic aren't for you, dont play Eve! Well, that is if you don't go the slow, long way or join an already established industrial corp. Thats really the way to do it if you want peace and quiet most of the time.
I am member in a tech II production corps. we have no cartel but responce on the market.
We have however contact with other corps about the mineral prices and also buy large amount of them. We need also a lot of tech II components.
We know who build other tech II modules or ammo but a certain price is low enough. Building something cost isk and manufactory time thats time we cant use the BPO. Customers pay for that. It look like there are some cartels but that isnot true.
We sell medium armor repair II and medium shield boosters II and some more modules, but we do the same as others take as much as we can. So the medium shield booster cost a lot more than the Large shield booster. Some people start selling them almost at manufactory price, which lowers also the BPO price.
Call it tech II - pvp.
producer of nlun's_Null_S
When will this debate end? I would argue is started back in the days of UO. The dev's woke up one day, created Trammel and the term carebear was born. Next SOE added to it by giving you big swirly lines pointing you to every place you need to go in that game. Its all been capped off with WoW where you are a god as soon as you pass from the server queue.
Some people can't handle sitting in the cold depths of space in a small pod after their ship has gone nova.
There is a term "might makes right". Its draconian and comes from our own history. In EvE this is the law. We're very sorry that you do not like this form of play. However, its unlikely anyone has a gun to your head forcing you to participate.
It may be best to realize that this is an international game and there are actually players out there that grow tired of the swirly magical lines leading to victory. Games like that become very cookie cutter and you can only play so many of them before you scream in agony over how mentally incompent %90 of the developer teams appear to be.
Eve is not a treadmill like EQ2 or WoW. EvE is INTENDED to be a game where the strongest wins. Your strength is not measured in how many npc's you can kill, but your position realtive to other players. You might not be the strongest....you may have to wheel and deal with those that are bigger then you. Like other posters say, you may have to go on public forums and lick the boots of the big fish in order to keep your player corp from being destoryed every time they undock.
Justice in EvE is not maintained by the game mechanics, justice is maintained by the players, their associations and their interactions. We're all very sorry that you can't go to 0.0 space and mine the good stuff after a tough day at the office.....but many a corps and many an alliances have actually FOUGHT , lost ships and pods (and thus THIER time) to secure that space their own. Chances are they don't give a rats ass you are upset you cant take from them for free or without reprocussion. And yes, the boggiemen are likely to be sitting on the other end of that .4 gate because you failed to bring friends and /or warp core stablizers.
The EvE universe is not some Utophia universe like Azeroth or Norrath2 where you can go and be all powerful in 2 months. Its dog eat dog. I could go on and on about your post, but the bottom line is you have made the right decision to not be here.
If you wanted to be in the universe you would realize that for every gang of thugs that are out there ready to blow you up there are 2 more waiting to blow them up. If you wanted to be there you would realize your only true challenge is to decide who you pick as friends.
Unlike WoW and EQ2 you can't do it alone here and you will never be all powerful.
QFT - Holy schit that was beautiful.
They should write that on the back of the EvE box and on the Eve website, it would save alot of carebears from having to cry on their pillows.
Guys, I think you have this backwards, actually.
Eve has its place, but it is a very isolated niche game. Not only is it hard Sci-fi, but it is seriously PvP and unforgiving. It has a skill system that does not reward effort, and an economy that is weighted, intentionally, towards a very few people who hold the Tech II BPOs. The theory is that this creates more conflict, oppression, and gameplay opportunity.
Eve has JUST hit 100,000 players after being out for 3+ years.
WoW has quite a few more than that, and had more than that in the first two weeks.
It is absolutely true that Eve brings out qualities, people and intrigue like no other game out there. It is also true that few people want to have to deal with that sort of game. Those that do are die hard fans and will look for PvP, call WoW names, etc. I admit, I sat down with someone while he was playing WoW recently and had a visceral reaction, as if I was watching a child's game. I felt myself wanting to shout 'but, whats the point! You can't LOSE anything...'
But, the point is simple. Eve is not only not for everyone, it is for very few. Those who stick with Eve for more than a few months are rare, 7 months is their make or break number and they have something on the order of 75% attrition at that point.
Why? Eve is a hard game in more ways than one. People want challenge, but they do not want reminders of real life staring them in the face day after day as they trade, buy things from corporations, or get smacked in local by arrogant pricks. Does that make them carebears? Hey, to each his own. The majority doesn't want to have to deal with the kinds of harsh realities that are thrust upon you in Eve in a thing that is supposed to be -relaxing- to them. To them, they want a challenge like the challenge in winning at cards, or a sporting event. That's where WoW comes in.
CCP has made a number of errors in Eve, but they have succeeded in drawing and holding a rabid base of hardcore players that look down on every other MMOG out there. They may not have big numbers, but their cash flow is secure.
I happen to be one of those players, and although Eve may not always be my first game, it will always be my second. It is Unique, and I have found my place within it, and I know I can leave it alone for a month, come back and be able to compete and function. But then, I'm one of the lucky ones.
So, if you hate Eve ok. There are things about Eve that I hate too, and that I think are broken beyond belief. I still come back though, because of the people, and because of the opportunity to play in a game where there are no winners or losers, only survivors.
Hey man, I think you make some very good points and you do so in a non agressive way....good reply.
I can see your point that the majority of people out there prefer something like WoW for its ease. As many others are starting to speak up and say, we're entering an age where games have become much easier. WoW is definatley a testimate to some type of playstyle.
However, IMO its depressing to see a game as simple and mindless as WoW wiping the floor. In this day and age of (IMO) crappy MMOs that offer the same drival over and over, I for one and very happy to see alternatives like Eve out there.
Is EVE the cats' meow of MMORPG games? Like you said, to each their own. However, there is something of value in making games a bit challenging and slightly harsh. (Personally, I'd like to argue that EvE isn't really all that harsh if you got your wits about you).
But your original point, that many don't like this playstyle is taken.
There are many reasons I think why many people shy away from EVE. Open PvP is one of them. But others are misperceptions about the training system (with power folks being turned off by not being able to catch up, as if that were important to begin with), bad experiences getting ganked in lowsec space and losing everything due to player stupidity (yes, the n00b was stupid, but EVE is very unforgiving for making stupid mistakes, as a game), and the reality that if you want to play the game alone, it will get pretty boring after a while (and a fair number of MMO players apparently actually do NOT like playing multiplayer, or being in corps/guilds). I think all of those are reasons why people shy away from EVE.
There are some beautiful posts in this discussion. I love EVE and even if I get bored of it for awhile I always go back. I joined an excellent corp that was very active in an alliance and the teamspeak rendition of your first ten minutes in EVE that someone posted was right dead on.
This game is exciting! You join a team of real people and work together for real goals in a more real PvP setting than any other MMORPG. This isn't just fluff to entertain yourself this game has meat! You have territory to defend. You have player owned stations that everyone has invested alot of time and money into maintaining and defending. You have real reasons to get into that ship and join your crew out in the wilds of untamed space. You have to make friends, strike deals with enemies, and pick your battles. You have gameplay strategy, but you also have political strategy and that is where people start to wimp out. They can't handle having to confront another player and take what is theirs. It's about teamwork and companionship. Also it's about at the end of the day where you, hopefully, come back with your ship in one piece and the spoils of the enemy in your cargohold.
Oh, and the kiddies ganking people in .3 space? 9 times out of 10 if that's what they are they go squish when an intelligent group of people go and spank their asses. That's another satisfying thing about open PvP. Someone steal your kill? KABOOM! Someone running their mouth and annoying everyone in local chat? KABOOM! This has to be the most unfriendly game towards greifing in existance because the system dosen't protect them from the player base getting rid of them. You may find griefers, but they don't last long. Especially if their actions damage an alliance. They soon find themselves corpless and hated by the community at large. They end up leaving.
Oh, and if you are having problems mining in 0.0, why not find out who runs that territory and ask the CEO? Sometimes as long as they know you are not an enemy they'll strike a deal with you or even let you mine for free. This game has a very active community and very defined territories. Try talking to people it works great. You have to interact with the community to enjoy this game to it's full potential.
I'll stop now but part with this. there is no other MMORPG with a community as mature and as fun to play with as EVE's and it's the community, and the complexity, that keeps me coming back to it.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!