Played WoW since beta and the PvP sux compared to DAOC RvR, the deciding factor is simply gear, connection and class and there is no world PvP at all just single player or group based duelling. Until the recent patch the most deciding factor for a lot of PvP battles was which mods the opposition had loaded but now it's back to gear again for a little while at least.
W.A.R. will have a vastly superior PvP implementation but that in itself doesn't make it succesful, WoW is simply a bad comparison being a PvE game with PvP thrown in at the last minute.
Yes, the PvP focus together with the chance to be a huge success may (in the "medium" scope) be it's downfall. If it attracts the WoW-PvP-Quitters, I am not really sure I'd like to play it, no matter how nice it would be done.
Then add that it's from Mythic = innate ability to destroy whatever class-balance might have been there at release, and this game may collapse into itself. Which would be sad...
I believe that although the community for this game "could" suck, there is a decent chance it wont. i could try to explain but im feeling to stupid to do it justice, but simply put, RvR tends to weed out chaff to an extent.
Originally posted by Senden I'm starting to get worried about the fanbase this game will attract mainly because of the way WoW is shaping up and the longer it is out, the more bored people are becoming and the fact that all the pvpers have either quit, or strongly considering it. I'm predicting that this game MAY be the next big mmorpg game and if that happends, we are bound to get the WoW wave (formerly the cs lot.) If this happends, it can only be a bad thing imo asthe childish players will whine and whine and whine and nearly force the devs to make this a WoW clone where everyone goes crazy over the best armour sets and eventually, have it so that pvp is all done in a playground environment where everyone is safe.
To be honest with you , i have never thought of that untill about now... that is extremely scary.... and i pray to god that doesn't happen... i think though if we are getting the majority of the DAoC gammers it should be fine and balanced out and we will end up putting up with alot of BS. im Just hopeing everything goes smoothely
Now i have to agree with Senden about his concerns but let me tell you something you might not know, Mythic tends to screw up their games whether people ask for it or not, just look at DAOC, it's screwed all over, and they keep screwing it until now, and what have they done ? only minor fixes after more than 50% of the players have quit.
i used to see more than 30k people online during holidays, now it barely reaches 10k, and in the beginning it used to be more than 50k, so guess what, only 20% of the playerbase remained to play the game, and alot of them play the battlegrounds in most of the servers.
i'm not going to play WAR for only one reason, it's made by Mythic, and with that, Mythic will screw it up real bad that only the fans will remain to play, even if they were many and more than DAOC, that doesn't matter at all.
Expansions ruin the games ( except one game that not a single expansion has ruined...EVE )
Originally posted by ob1sr Now i have to agree with Senden about his concerns but let me tell you something you might not know, Mythic tends to screw up their games whether people ask for it or not, just look at DAOC, it's screwed all over, and they keep screwing it until now, and what have they done ? only minor fixes after more than 50% of the players have quit. i used to see more than 30k people online during holidays, now it barely reaches 10k, and in the beginning it used to be more than 50k, so guess what, only 20% of the playerbase remained to play the game, and alot of them play the battlegrounds in most of the servers. i'm not going to play WAR for only one reason, it's made by Mythic, and with that, Mythic will screw it up real bad that only the fans will remain to play, even if they were many and more than DAOC, that doesn't matter at all. Expansions ruin the games ( except one game that not a single expansion has ruined...EVE )
Hmmm, yes Mythic dropped the ball in some respects and lost a lot of players because of it (me and wife included) but to say that they don't try and fix things is simply wrong. I really do think you should stay away from Mythic games since you apparently expect everything about them to suck which probably means that to you the game will suck, the rest of us will try and have fun with the game and if it's a good game we'll end up spending a few years having fun and meeting old and new friends that also happen to like the game. Unlike companies like Blizzard and SOE Mythic has always had a fairly open relationship with the players and I rather tend to think that the mess that was ToA may actually turn out to be a good thing in the end if they keep the lessons in mind for W.A.R..
That said expansions can definately be bad, some of the expansions for DAOC were really good though, especially the free ones It only takes one really bad expansion to break a game though.
Originally posted by Alanthus Originally posted by ob1sr Now i have to agree with Senden about his concerns but let me tell you something you might not know, Mythic tends to screw up their games whether people ask for it or not, just look at DAOC, it's screwed all over, and they keep screwing it until now, and what have they done ? only minor fixes after more than 50% of the players have quit. i used to see more than 30k people online during holidays, now it barely reaches 10k, and in the beginning it used to be more than 50k, so guess what, only 20% of the playerbase remained to play the game, and alot of them play the battlegrounds in most of the servers. i'm not going to play WAR for only one reason, it's made by Mythic, and with that, Mythic will screw it up real bad that only the fans will remain to play, even if they were many and more than DAOC, that doesn't matter at all. Expansions ruin the games ( except one game that not a single expansion has ruined...EVE )
Hmmm, yes Mythic dropped the ball in some respects and lost a lot of players because of it (me and wife included) but to say that they don't try and fix things is simply wrong. I really do think you should stay away from Mythic games since you apparently expect everything about them to suck which probably means that to you the game will suck, the rest of us will try and have fun with the game and if it's a good game we'll end up spending a few years having fun and meeting old and new friends that also happen to like the game. Unlike companies like Blizzard and SOE Mythic has always had a fairly open relationship with the players and I rather tend to think that the mess that was ToA may actually turn out to be a good thing in the end if they keep the lessons in mind for W.A.R..
That said expansions can definately be bad, some of the expansions for DAOC were really good though, especially the free ones It only takes one really bad expansion to break a game though __________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by Alanthus Hmmm, yes Mythic dropped the ball in some respects and lost a lot of players because of it (me and wife included) but to say that they don't try and fix things is simply wrong. I really do think you should stay away from Mythic games since you apparently expect everything about them to suck which probably means that to you the game will suck, the rest of us will try and have fun with the game and if it's a good game we'll end up spending a few years having fun and meeting old and new friends that also happen to like the game. Unlike companies like Blizzard and SOE Mythic has always had a fairly open relationship with the players and I rather tend to think that the mess that was ToA may actually turn out to be a good thing in the end if they keep the lessons in mind for W.A.R.. That said expansions can definately be bad, some of the expansions for DAOC were really good though, especially the free ones It only takes one really bad expansion to break a game though.
You mis-understood me there for a second, i never said WAR will suck, nor did i say that DAOC sucked, i simply said, DAOC was ruined by the expansions and updates mythic made for the game, TOA and the redoing of the realm abilities ( at least the RA redoing was a mess for ME only and some others might think it's ok ).
now they fixed it, but it's way too late, and let me tell you something, in WAR they will NOT repeat what they did to DAOC and i'm sure of it, but i heavily suspect that they'll still have this massive crowd control spells available in WAR which is what will ruin the fun of RVR.
now i'm playing daoc with a friend, we are owning in thidranki, currently lvling up shadowblades for RVR, i'm still having fun, but there isn't much to do there since i did everything in the game ( except some raids i couldn't attend to because of the difference in time ).
Originally posted by ashefire I predict WAR will be a success simply because of the niche it will be filling in the MMORPG industry. It obviously won't have WoW's numbers - if you're name isn't Blizzard, its impossible to get those numbers - but it will still be pretty solid. Probably around 750,000 to 1 million subscribers.
I disagree. If I knew more about investing, I'd put money into Mythic right now, before this game gets any more press than it has already. If WAR stays on schedule, their timing couldn't possibly BE any better. People are already getting sick of WoW because the Honor system stinks, and everything else is just farm status. Bliz is en route with their expansion which will bring people back, but for how long? WoW will always be WoW expansion or no, and in the end it just plain gets boring. People will realize this soon enough, and in a year they are going to really be thirsting for a new fix of MMO - especially after the bombs of '06 (which we all know are going to happen).
Enter Warhammer. Brand spanking new in '07. It's got the WoW fun atmosphere, but with a heavy dose of meaningful world PvP. World of Warcraft will be but a fond memory for most of us by that time, and seeing Warhammer emerge is bound to get us remembering the good times again. Blizzard didn't make a whole lot of mistakes with WoW, let's face it; but they screwed the pooch enough with the honor system, that Mythic is going to capitalize on it. For that reason alone, I think they will break WoW's North American subscriber record even while facing greater competition.
Originally posted by Size-Twelve Originally posted by ashefire I predict WAR will be a success simply because of the niche it will be filling in the MMORPG industry. It obviously won't have WoW's numbers - if you're name isn't Blizzard, its impossible to get those numbers - but it will still be pretty solid. Probably around 750,000 to 1 million subscribers.
I disagree. If I knew more about investing, I'd put money into Mythic right now, before this game gets any more press than it has already. If WAR stays on schedule, their timing couldn't possibly BE any better. People are already getting sick of WoW because the Honor system stinks, and everything else is just farm status. Bliz is en route with their expansion which will bring people back, but for how long? WoW will always be WoW expansion or no, and in the end it just plain gets boring. People will realize this soon enough, and in a year they are going to really be thirsting for a new fix of MMO - especially after the bombs of '06 (which we all know are going to happen).
Enter Warhammer. Brand spanking new in '07. It's got the WoW fun atmosphere, but with a heavy dose of meaningful world PvP. World of Warcraft will be but a fond memory for most of us by that time, and seeing Warhammer emerge is bound to get us remembering the good times again. Blizzard didn't make a whole lot of mistakes with WoW, let's face it; but they screwed the pooch enough with the honor system, that Mythic is going to capitalize on it. For that reason alone, I think they will break WoW's North American subscriber record even while facing greater competition.
I kind of agree with you but I honestly don't think the WoW Expansion will bring many people back well not for long anyway, I mean check it out, apart from the new area, there is very little new things added. It's basically just a mega update adding a new area, more boring instances, more boring farming and that is pretty much it. In terms of new features which add new things to the gameplay, there is literally 0.
I think WAR will be released at the perfect time, this time next year, blizzard will realise that to keep their fanbase, they need to give NEW stuff instead of all this raid hungry crap every update. By the time WAR comes out, blizzard will have sweated that many subscribers will move over and they will have added some stuff to entice the old pvpers back to their game and hopefully, keep the pve kids too. Sadly, kids have short attention spans and i'm very sure by the time WAR comes along, they will be burnt out from WoW.
Having voiced my concerns, I would absolutely love to see WAR initially take over from WoW as I HATE blizzard with a bitter passion because of their lack of innovation in patches and new stuff. I would love for nothing more than to see them face something along the lines of what SOE did with SWG.
My first post. lol. Warhammer's dev team in Va, sounds like they have a good handle on what gamers are looking for. From the interview I read the game sounds impressive, I look forward to seeing the finished product in '07. For the player base, if it turns out as good as it sounds other mmog's will have to turn too. Its a competitive market we are the customer there's always something new coming out. You give the player base a game they enjoy and they will come. Hopefully and I'm sure they are is taking notes on SWG's debacle, and WoW's grind fest. But like I said will be looking forward to seeing the finished product. See Ya, Floby
As I see it, its probably going to attract the warhammer fanbase. old smelly balding men who live for warhammer tournaments on sundays and take it way too seriously. THATS what im worried about.
If you don't like little kids in the game its not hard to ignore them. Besides they not only give developers the money they need to make great games like I hope WAR will be but they make up that great zerg army you get to pummel. Anyways I doubt all of them will come in truck loads, I'll be looking forward to playing with old DAoC players and warhammer advocats. GW has an awesome fanbase, though a few of those guys might know a bit to much about warhammer lore...I'll still take the fat balding pro gamer over a 12 year old shouting "PWND you noob" when he has full epic gear on. Besides i think the WAR system is really going to turn away most thsoe kiddies, those that do make it to end game are most likely going to be the few that are a bit above their age in maturity.
What I'm affraid of is getting to the top levels to quickly and/or there being nothing there to do. Don't get me wrong I don't want to have EQ's 2-3 year tribulation to make it to end game stuff, but I don't want shadowbanes quick leveling, or even WoW's.
I cant wate to turn Ulthan into ruins.
60 Warrior in WoW and regreting leaveing shadowbane every day...
I'm hoping WAR will be more about complicated character development and less about having the coolest uber weapon ( I want there to be awsome toys for all the girls and boys, but...) because that's what set WHFRP on a plateau above the other pencil and paper RPGs. Career based character building rocks! The only thing I will miss is that when our characters arm is bitten off by a monster that we cannot find the clandestine Necro-Surgeon who will send us on a quest to gather resources to enable him to graft a sorcerous skeletal arm in it's place. Pencil and paper allows you to have truly unique character enhancements and that is what I will miss. It will be fun to actually play instead of GM'ing though!
Well this game should attract a lot of people and that is what Mythic wants.Also just to say not all 12-15 yr. olds are leet speaking assholes I've met some 30 yr. olds that did that so dont judge by age cuz it's really the minds condition.No game is free of people like this so we all just have to deal.
Originally posted by Varangarian I'll still take the fat balding pro gamer over a 12 year old shouting "PWND you noob" when he has full epic gear on. Besides i think the WAR system is really going to turn away most thsoe kiddies, those that do make it to end game are most likely going to be the few that are a bit above their age in maturity.
You see this is where the problem is, the 12 year olds, won't simply give up and quit, they will whine whine and whine until Mythic listens to them. Luckily, if the balancing issues in DAoC are anything to go by, Mythic won't give a monkey's left testicle about the kids.
But still, if WAR gets the amount of users i'm expecting (most of the WoW players and Warhammer fans combined,) Mythic will have a hard job keeping them all happy. The WoW fanbase will demand uber gear and pve endgame but I just hope these demands get laughed at. I think it happends slightly with Blizzard, their original intentions with WoW, wasn't to make it a raid orientated game where everyone is nearly forced to raid but look at it now... left, right and centre you get guilds saying recruiting blah blah blah for MC/BWL blah blah blah, it's actually next to impossible finding an experienced guild which isn't recruiting for them.
scaramoosh dude you have 2414 posts... and you are telling people to get laid. and you actually checked how long he has played for thats sort of obbsessive.
Comments
Played WoW since beta and the PvP sux compared to DAOC RvR, the deciding factor is simply gear, connection and class and there is no world PvP at all just single player or group based duelling. Until the recent patch the most deciding factor for a lot of PvP battles was which mods the opposition had loaded but now it's back to gear again for a little while at least.
W.A.R. will have a vastly superior PvP implementation but that in itself doesn't make it succesful, WoW is simply a bad comparison being a PvE game with PvP thrown in at the last minute.
Yes, the PvP focus together with the chance to be a huge success may (in the "medium" scope) be it's downfall. If it attracts the WoW-PvP-Quitters, I am not really sure I'd like to play it, no matter how nice it would be done.
Then add that it's from Mythic = innate ability to destroy whatever class-balance might have been there at release, and this game may collapse into itself. Which would be sad...
"I never said: Thou shalt not think!" --god
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
Now i have to agree with Senden about his concerns but let me tell you something you might not know, Mythic tends to screw up their games whether people ask for it or not, just look at DAOC, it's screwed all over, and they keep screwing it until now, and what have they done ? only minor fixes after more than 50% of the players have quit.
i used to see more than 30k people online during holidays, now it barely reaches 10k, and in the beginning it used to be more than 50k, so guess what, only 20% of the playerbase remained to play the game, and alot of them play the battlegrounds in most of the servers.
i'm not going to play WAR for only one reason, it's made by Mythic, and with that, Mythic will screw it up real bad that only the fans will remain to play, even if they were many and more than DAOC, that doesn't matter at all.
Expansions ruin the games ( except one game that not a single expansion has ruined...EVE )
Hmmm, yes Mythic dropped the ball in some respects and lost a lot of players because of it (me and wife included) but to say that they don't try and fix things is simply wrong. I really do think you should stay away from Mythic games since you apparently expect everything about them to suck which probably means that to you the game will suck, the rest of us will try and have fun with the game and if it's a good game we'll end up spending a few years having fun and meeting old and new friends that also happen to like the game. Unlike companies like Blizzard and SOE Mythic has always had a fairly open relationship with the players and I rather tend to think that the mess that was ToA may actually turn out to be a good thing in the end if they keep the lessons in mind for W.A.R..
That said expansions can definately be bad, some of the expansions for DAOC were really good though, especially the free ones
It only takes one really bad expansion to break a game though.
Hmmm, yes Mythic dropped the ball in some respects and lost a lot of players because of it (me and wife included) but to say that they don't try and fix things is simply wrong. I really do think you should stay away from Mythic games since you apparently expect everything about them to suck which probably means that to you the game will suck, the rest of us will try and have fun with the game and if it's a good game we'll end up spending a few years having fun and meeting old and new friends that also happen to like the game. Unlike companies like Blizzard and SOE Mythic has always had a fairly open relationship with the players and I rather tend to think that the mess that was ToA may actually turn out to be a good thing in the end if they keep the lessons in mind for W.A.R..
That said expansions can definately be bad, some of the expansions for DAOC were really good though, especially the free ones
It only takes one really bad expansion to break a game though
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Aint that the truth.
You mis-understood me there for a second, i never said WAR will suck, nor did i say that DAOC sucked, i simply said, DAOC was ruined by the expansions and updates mythic made for the game, TOA and the redoing of the realm abilities ( at least the RA redoing was a mess for ME only and some others might think it's ok ).
now they fixed it, but it's way too late, and let me tell you something, in WAR they will NOT repeat what they did to DAOC and i'm sure of it, but i heavily suspect that they'll still have this massive crowd control spells available in WAR which is what will ruin the fun of RVR.
now i'm playing daoc with a friend, we are owning in thidranki, currently lvling up shadowblades for RVR, i'm still having fun, but there isn't much to do there since i did everything in the game ( except some raids i couldn't attend to because of the difference in time ).
I kind of agree with you but I honestly don't think the WoW Expansion will bring many people back well not for long anyway, I mean check it out, apart from the new area, there is very little new things added. It's basically just a mega update adding a new area, more boring instances, more boring farming and that is pretty much it. In terms of new features which add new things to the gameplay, there is literally 0.
I think WAR will be released at the perfect time, this time next year, blizzard will realise that to keep their fanbase, they need to give NEW stuff instead of all this raid hungry crap every update. By the time WAR comes out, blizzard will have sweated that many subscribers will move over and they will have added some stuff to entice the old pvpers back to their game and hopefully, keep the pve kids too. Sadly, kids have short attention spans and i'm very sure by the time WAR comes along, they will be burnt out from WoW.
Having voiced my concerns, I would absolutely love to see WAR initially take over from WoW as I HATE blizzard with a bitter passion because of their lack of innovation in patches and new stuff. I would love for nothing more than to see them face something along the lines of what SOE did with SWG.
My first post. lol. Warhammer's dev team in Va, sounds like they have a good handle on what gamers are looking for. From the interview I read the game sounds impressive, I look forward to seeing the finished product in '07. For the player base, if it turns out as good as it sounds other mmog's will have to turn too. Its a competitive market we are the customer there's always something new coming out. You give the player base a game they enjoy and they will come. Hopefully and I'm sure they are is taking notes on SWG's debacle, and WoW's grind fest. But like I said will be looking forward to seeing the finished product. See Ya, Floby
If you don't like little kids in the game its not hard to ignore them. Besides they not only give developers the money they need to make great games like I hope WAR will be but they make up that great zerg army you get to pummel. Anyways I doubt all of them will come in truck loads, I'll be looking forward to playing with old DAoC players and warhammer advocats. GW has an awesome fanbase, though a few of those guys might know a bit to much about warhammer lore...I'll still take the fat balding pro gamer over a 12 year old shouting "PWND you noob" when he has full epic gear on. Besides i think the WAR system is really going to turn away most thsoe kiddies, those that do make it to end game are most likely going to be the few that are a bit above their age in maturity.
What I'm affraid of is getting to the top levels to quickly and/or there being nothing there to do. Don't get me wrong I don't want to have EQ's 2-3 year tribulation to make it to end game stuff, but I don't want shadowbanes quick leveling, or even WoW's.
I cant wate to turn Ulthan into ruins.
60 Warrior in WoW and regreting leaveing shadowbane every day...
I'm hoping WAR will be more about complicated character development and less about having the coolest uber weapon ( I want there to be awsome toys for all the girls and boys, but...) because that's what set WHFRP on a plateau above the other pencil and paper RPGs. Career based character building rocks! The only thing I will miss is that when our characters arm is bitten off by a monster that we cannot find the clandestine Necro-Surgeon who will send us on a quest to gather resources to enable him to graft a sorcerous skeletal arm in it's place. Pencil and paper allows you to have truly unique character enhancements and that is what I will miss. It will be fun to actually play instead of GM'ing though!
You see this is where the problem is, the 12 year olds, won't simply give up and quit, they will whine whine and whine until Mythic listens to them. Luckily, if the balancing issues in DAoC are anything to go by, Mythic won't give a monkey's left testicle about the kids.
But still, if WAR gets the amount of users i'm expecting (most of the WoW players and Warhammer fans combined,) Mythic will have a hard job keeping them all happy. The WoW fanbase will demand uber gear and pve endgame but I just hope these demands get laughed at. I think it happends slightly with Blizzard, their original intentions with WoW, wasn't to make it a raid orientated game where everyone is nearly forced to raid but look at it now... left, right and centre you get guilds saying recruiting blah blah blah for MC/BWL blah blah blah, it's actually next to impossible finding an experienced guild which isn't recruiting for them.