you should read the Q&A better because the guy said theya re using a new engine for DNL which means a different one from SOG
LOL!
Well first off, the only reason they would change engines is because they have no legal rights to the one they stole...errr, are using at the moment.
And second, do you know how long it takes to make a game engine from scratch? There is no way they could do this unless they have been secretly working on another engine while developing the game on the exsisting one....that is...unless they stole this "new" engine too.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
I shall make my post short and to the point on this one. Just going to point out certain quotes and you decide.
Dark & Light Team: No more features will be incorporated into SoG. All the features of DnL will be beta tested.
Dark & Light Team: At the moment our beta test is internal and closed. The changes that are being done to calibrate the server and the engine are being patched too often and are too important to open a beta at the moment. The beta test should be reopened by March.
Dark & Light Team: The official release date is April 27th, and our entire team is working to reach this deadline. It is short but in game development, each release date is short. Were still confident about this release date at the moment.
Am I reading this right?
Farlan is saying that:
D&L "will" be Beta Tested
Beta Testing at this time is internal AND closed.
Beta Testing "should" be reopened in March.
D&L "should" be released in April 27.
Anyone else see some discrepencies here? This means that IF, and its a BIG IF, they manage to open the Beta Server again this month, they will have ONLY a month to test EVERYTHING out. Let us be realistic peeps.
PS: Closed Beta stoppped on December prior to SoG Launch. They then stated it will be reopening the Closed Beta by January ...
Well, if with a little part of the game (SoG) are having so many troubles that many of them were not fixed after more than a month of they're happening (some of them still active, like Permabug people).... how we could trust that all will run well in DnL.... less than 2 month to begin and new and not betatester engine..
For those that gripe that SoG is the actual beta, I have to agree in some aspects, in others I don't. I believe we are playing on the actual servers now in SoG, that DnL will be played on. 90% of the log in problems are gone, and I don't think this would have happened without SoG. The same goes with the prema-bug problems they are having. While not completely fixed, they have been working on it.
For those who were there at the start, I remember when we first downloaded the files and in one of them was labeled "Beta" file. So I do believe SoG was an earlier form of DnL, in one way or another.
In any MMO there are problems at start up and this is NP#'s/Farlans first game ever. Only time will tell. Hopefully they will do a good job.
Why does Farlan/DNL expect people to say OH OKAY when only MOST of the problems have been fixed but is still riddled with login and permabugs that still exist? They have even gone so far as to say it is not their side for the problems, so uninstall the game, buy this uber fantastic game card, buy some more ram , oh and get some more speed while you are it, install again and we will see if that fixes it. Guess what? People have done just that! (damn I wish I still owned the deed to that bridge in NY) and Guess what? They STILL have the problems.
As far as comparing an unfinished release to the other more popular games who released 3-5 years ago is no longer considered comparable. That may have been the accepted norm years ago, however, in that short span the mmo community has demanded and received much better quality releases. An unfinished problem ridden release is no longer the accepted norm.
Compare it to the most recently released games - currently-- and you will see that this is not even considered in alpha/beta stage yet.
Why does Farlan expect people to say OH OKAY when all of the promised features in the SOG not a beta, is a beta, not a beta will now not be implemented as promised but promise the full spectrum in the supersecret fanfriggintastic full release?
Why does Farlan expect people to say OH OKAY when they say this is not a Beta but also states SOG helped them fix any problems with the supersecret fanfriggintastic DNL?
Why does Farlan expect people to say OH OKAY when they release a prelude to a game on a substandard engine but promise that there is a newer shinier supersecret fanfriggintastic engine that will not be tested in full before release waiting in the wings for the lucky players?
Why does Farlan expect people to say OH OKAY when if you pre-order the game in order to gain instant access to the SOG not a beta, is a beta, not a beta substandard engine no content no features standalone game that has nothing to do with the supersecret fanfriggintastic newer shinier engine with full features ready to go that isnt released to be paid upfront, at order time, not when shipped and does not allow for any refund of any kind?
Even when coming clean and "telling the truth" -- they still fall short.
My disillusionment with SoG has nothing to do with the performance problems or lack of features. My problem has to do with game design. I am optomistic about game performance. I am pessimistic about game design. Here is a list of things which need to go away for DnL to a break out game instead of another EQ clone set on a terrific landscape:
Static Spawn
Fast Easy Leveling
Domination by those who put in the most time
Travel so fast it makes a large world small
Radar
Static Spawn is the epitome of a game where a world which does not change. Having events where the GMs change the world is a lame substitute for a world where players have control of the destiny. EQ clonesville
For an introduction to the expanse of Ganareth, fast leveling is probably a good idea in order for all content to be experienced in the short time life of SoG. I pray that the fast leveling will not be incorporated into DnL. We do not need another leveling up game.
Why does game content have to be tied to how much time you put into the game? Let us say you have a week off and can put in quite a bit of time. You will still be off the curve as you need to put in more time than other chars ALL the time to have an equal chance for experiencing the game. There are ways to mitigate the effect of this but I do not see any of those game design concepts in SoG.
I love that Ganareth is a huge gorgeous world ! This is a breakthrough in game design. Do not ruin it by putting in all sort of tools to make the world small again. Cherish the expansive world and make the logistics of getting around when distances are great part of the game play. It could be terrific.
Radar. Ugh. This could easily be gripe number one. DnL hopefully will be a visual world. Radar cheapens the experience to the nth degree. I could buy the notion of radar being used as a special ability after a single entity is tagged. That one target could be on 'radar'. No char should ever have the ability to sense all entities around them at great distances. I am hoping for some innovation. How about a visual world? Slowing down the speed of movement will make visual spotting of foe at great distances a important and fun aspect of game play.
My list of disappointments with SoG design is long which probably means a disappointment with DnL. Adding features to SoG which is so clearly an EQclone on a beautiful world engine will not be the total package breakthrough game I am hoping for.
Don't confuse what I'm about to say as me defending the Devs of DnL. I'm just stating the obvious: When they say that SoG has helped with solving some problems or prevented such problems from occuring in DnL it does not necessarily make it a BETA of DnL. If it did you would have to say that EQ was just a long running BETA for EQII. In face, you would have to say that any game that a Dev worked on or has any knowledge of would therefor be a BETA for what ever game with which they are currently busy. It's quite worrying that these guys are so horrible at communicating with their audience since they are the ones that are responsible for the games PR. It makes one wonder if it is truely a break down in the communication or if they are just trying to hide their true intentions with a cloud of deceit.
That said, I'm really worried about the final product if they are planning on having such a small time to truely open BETA this thing. I understand that they are using some of the models and lessons learned in SoG to improve DnL, but without actually letting people get in and mess with your game there is no way you're going to find out how good your improvements are. It's in these fine details that makes SoG something other than a BETA, but it's these details that scream out that they should really get their BETA testing into full swing. The DnL guys said that they were even using a different graphics engine for DnL. With that being the case they really need to get a mass amount of players on a server to see how well the code takes to the stress. I'm not really sure how they can say that they have fixed many of the design issues if they are still in closed BETA. Content, balance, and playability issues don't come to light till you have a large scale unbiased test group from which you can pool.
If on the other hand they are just planning on re-using SoG with a new graphics engine and more stable servers they are doomed to a very quick death. I say this not because I feel SoG is such a bad product (I have not played it so I can't give an oppinion), but because this would show that they have absolutely no respect for their customers and have no problems with openly lying to them time after time.
Originally posted by l'Aasin Don't confuse what I'm about to say as me defending the Devs of DnL. I'm just stating the obvious: When they say that SoG has helped with solving some problems or prevented such problems from occuring in DnL it does not necessarily make it a BETA of DnL. <agree>,,,,, ,,,,,,, I say this not because I feel SoG is such a bad product (I have not played it so I can't give an oppinion), but because this would show that they have absolutely no respect for their customers and have no problems with openly lying to them time after time.
<cough> :ahem: When the Devs themselves say its not a beta, then it is a beta, then its not a beta ---- how can you NOT confuse it with a beta?
And as far as openly lying? They have done that throughout the Q&A series, on their boards, in the main pages and since the first promised release date of December '02.
Disrespect for their customers has been shown time and time and time again.
Originally posted by remyburke Right... So what you are saying is, SoG has nothing to do with DnL beta. Ok then, fine. Let's go with that for a moment shall we? We have a "game" called SoG, which shares the same engine as DnL, but it only has about 20% of the size and content that DnL has. We watched in horror as SoG struggled to breath on life support, nevermind perform at an acceptable level. The interview also mentions how SoG is in no way a beta test for DnL, then in the same breath talk about how SoG has helped them fix a lot of connection issues, bugs and gameplay balance. Isn't that the definition of BETA? lol...you guys kill me. In conclusion, to say that SoG sucked but DnL will rule and have no major issues is laughable. If they can't get 20% of the game to work properly, how do you think the other 80% is doing?
just a note if you read the interview he states that they do have a different engine for DnL.
"Yes of course, DnL is much more balanced than SOG. It offers more gameplays like craft and quests; a deeper skill tree; more NPCs, villages, etc.
The system of building fortresses will be more interactive, thanks to the economic system in DnL.
Graphically, DnL has a new engine with significantly different environmental areas and a higher rendering quality.
Characters will also have a better rendering, thanks to MOCAP integration for fights and emote. "
Well they could give the SOE rep a few lessons in sensible answers to questions. You cant argue with anyone that says "sorry" as much as it was used in that interview. I dont think SOE know the word exists, either that or they got it confused with "screw you".
All in all I have gone from considering a pre-order to adopting a wait and see.......
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Sog is or not a Beta? All people (except some blind fanboys) were bad informed about and due to this reason things that its a Beta?
I think "NO".
If all people things that SoG it's a betta is because it has the same problems, the same inconveniences and the same performance of a Beta. Or for being more reallistic, "of an alpha".
Maybe people is not as stupid as farlain/np3 thought
Originally posted by Razorback Well they could give the SOE rep a few lessons in sensible answers to questions. You cant argue with anyone that says "sorry" as much as it was used in that interview.
It only took them 3 months to admit it was a POS and apologize. As far as I am concerned they are still shady as heck. Take their "lottery" for example. People still have problems registering and they still have not went through with it. While it was supposed to have been last week according to their own email/website and it still has not happened. However I bet you five bucks if you try to pre order that will work just fine and your credit card will be debited in a wink of a eye.
What a load of crap... Why would you put a game out that was not like the one you are going to release? OK.. give me a few more excuses that I do not believe.
*Crafting Taking into consideration the timeline in which you will evolve in SoG, you will have to discover the beginnings of crafting. You will start, for example, by extracting crystals or wood. Crafting will get more and more complex as you discover this art.
*Quests Some quests will immediately be available to you as you enter Settlers of Ganareth ; they will allow you to dig deeply in the world's story and culture. Events ingame will influence your quests from time to time.
*Will there be religions? Yes, Alchemic Dream will explain how it will be managed in the near future. Each religion will have its own hierarchy and players will be able to run every rank within their religion.
*Will there be both Social XP and Fighting XP systems in SoG? Yes, both will be implemented.
*Building villages: This feature will be integrated during the course of SoG.
*Housing: The housing system will not be available at the start of SoG, but should be integrated in a patch after.
*Exploration in SoG: Exploration skills and the SxP system will be in SoG.
And what happened to the level 50 cap?
I've seen a lot of broken promises before but this is insane.
Originally posted by Fireman07 What a load of crap... Why would you put a game out that was not like the one you are going to release? OK.. give me a few more excuses that I do not believe.
Thats what alot of people seem to be missing. Farlan has yet to answer that question except to say it was a gift to your fans. LOL
Originally posted by Razorback Well they could give the SOE rep a few lessons in sensible answers to questions. You cant argue with anyone that says "sorry" as much as it was used in that interview.
However I bet you five bucks if you try to pre order that will work just fine and your credit card will be debited in a wink of a eye. Honestly, how can you accept an apology when they still have the knife in your back?
It would be wonderful that in next Q&A the points exponed by virtuella (and me, some time ago in another thread). As once AD answered to Spanish comunity, there're more than 50 translated quests only for SoG, not DnL.
Thanks again for making them admiting some points, and admiting they LIED in previous Q&A refering Events
Originally posted by virtuella Dark & Light Team: No more features will be incorporated into SoG. Whoa! what about all the things they promised? http://www.darkandlight.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24699 Here is some examples. Settlers of Ganareth - Answers to your questions *Crafting Taking into consideration the timeline in which you will evolve in SoG, you will have to discover the beginnings of crafting. You will start, for example, by extracting crystals or wood. Crafting will get more and more complex as you discover this art. *Quests Some quests will immediately be available to you as you enter Settlers of Ganareth ; they will allow you to dig deeply in the world's story and culture. Events ingame will influence your quests from time to time. *Will there be religions? Yes, Alchemic Dream will explain how it will be managed in the near future. Each religion will have its own hierarchy and players will be able to run every rank within their religion. *Will there be both Social XP and Fighting XP systems in SoG? Yes, both will be implemented. *Building villages: This feature will be integrated during the course of SoG. *Housing: The housing system will not be available at the start of SoG, but should be integrated in a patch after. *Exploration in SoG: Exploration skills and the SxP system will be in SoG. And what happened to the level 50 cap? I've seen a lot of broken promises before but this is insane.
Look they can't even get simple stuff like being able to log in and combat right and you expect all that other stuff LOL. They are still trying to work on skill trees and balancing and attributes having an effect on your character, damn good thing this isn't a beta.
CMON.. give me a break. Farlan is not lying about the release date! They can make it by april EASILY. You dont think they can make it by april 2008??? Oh wait, was it 2006? Naw, sorry, it was a typo. We meant to say 2008! We sincerelly apologize for our typing error. We assure you to bring a quality game by our promised release date. Feel free to pay ridiculous amount of money for something that was but is not beta to DnL, even though we said it wasnt, but now it is, since I just told u that it is but it wasnt... am I confusing you? Dont worry, its gonna be allrite, trust me...
ON a serious note, first of all, why on earth would anyone realease a SUB game with 5% of features of the original game, and NOT call it a beta? I mean, if u take a car on a drivetest, and it turns out that car has no engine, would u be drive testing a complete car? I dont think so.
Second, lies lies lies. So many people quoted direct links from the OFFICIAL site... OMG all I could say (respect Kilim for digging out those facts)
Third, if you screwed up, have a decency to take the blame and bend over when necessary. As Samuel Jackson said "Shit doesnt just happen. Shit takes effort to happen.".
Originally posted by jimmyman99 CMON.. give me a break. Farlan is not lying about the release date! They can make it by april EASILY. You dont think they can make it by april 2008??? Oh wait, was it 2006? Naw, sorry, it was a typo. We meant to say 2008! We sincerelly apologize for our typing error. We assure you to bring a quality game by our promised release date. Feel free to pay ridiculous amount of money for something that was but is not beta to DnL, even though we said it wasnt, but now it is, since I just told u that it is but it wasnt... am I confusing you? Dont worry, its gonna be allrite, trust me... ON a serious note, first of all, why on earth would anyone realease a SUB game with 5% of features of the original game, and NOT call it a beta? I mean, if u take a car on a drivetest, and it turns out that car has no engine, would u be drive testing a complete car? I dont think so. Second, lies lies lies. So many people quoted direct links from the OFFICIAL site... OMG all I could say (respect Kilim for digging out those facts) Third, if you screwed up, have a decency to take the blame and bend over when necessary. As Samuel Jackson said "Shit doesnt just happen. Shit takes effort to happen.".
I think the players are not only confused about that SoG and DnL are not the same game, they may have been confused about DnL and DNL, so if you found DnL disappointing, please pay to play (pre-order welcome) our best game ever, which is.....
Originally posted by Hawkins I think the players are not only confused about that SoG and DnL are not the same game, they may have been confused about DnL and DNL, so if you found DnL disappointing, please pay to play (pre-order welcome) our best game ever, which is..... DNL - Duck & Lie
LOL or Decieve and Lie with an expansion AWML - Apologies With More Lies - or just simply DITTO
EDIT: Newest sleazy tactic regarding this topic: A player on their boards at thier site asked why the features wont be implemented after being promised. A mod answered that it was never promised. A few other posters PWND! the Mod with direct quotes of the official statements made by Farlan and AD.
This Mod then comes back and says, paraphrasing:
he/she wasnt a mod at the time
pointed out that he/she used IIRC and "as far as I can recall"
wished he/she had used his/her player account to answer the question instead of the Mod account (!!)
that the official statement regarding what features would be implemented in SOG and these same statements used as a marketing tool for the $59.99 Upfront Pre-Order Pioneer Package payment with a no-refund deadline months in advance of official DNL release was dated 2 months ahead of the release of SOG, in that only that was the information AT THE TIME. (Remember now, the sale special was hyped a month in advance, then the release was delayed another 3 weeks - gosh 2 months from the date of the statement! )
So even the Mod was caught in a sleazy lie, tried to sleaze out of it, even stating a sleazy manuever of player/mod account, and actually put Farlan and AD in a much deeper pile than before.
This company, Farlan, and its affliate , AD just cant seem to get the slimy sleazeball covering off this nut.
Originally posted by Hawkins Originally posted by jimmyman99 CMON.. give me a break. Farlan is not lying about the release date! They can make it by april EASILY. You dont think they can make it by april 2008??? Oh wait, was it 2006? Naw, sorry, it was a typo. We meant to say 2008! We sincerelly apologize for our typing error. We assure you to bring a quality game by our promised release date. Feel free to pay ridiculous amount of money for something that was but is not beta to DnL, even though we said it wasnt, but now it is, since I just told u that it is but it wasnt... am I confusing you? Dont worry, its gonna be allrite, trust me... ON a serious note, first of all, why on earth would anyone realease a SUB game with 5% of features of the original game, and NOT call it a beta? I mean, if u take a car on a drivetest, and it turns out that car has no engine, would u be drive testing a complete car? I dont think so. Second, lies lies lies. So many people quoted direct links from the OFFICIAL site... OMG all I could say (respect Kilim for digging out those facts) Third, if you screwed up, have a decency to take the blame and bend over when necessary. As Samuel Jackson said "Shit doesnt just happen. Shit takes effort to happen.". I think the players are not only confused about that SoG and DnL are not the same game, they may have been confused about DnL and DNL, so if you found DnL disappointing, please pay to play (pre-order welcome) our best game ever, which is..... DNL - Duck & Lie
I think DnL and SOG are the same game, but Farlan doesnt want us to see DNL because we all know what happend to SOG. If they released SOG and called it a game (even if its a prerelease and lacks content, they STILL called it a game, and not a BETA...) then I wonder if DNL isnt on the same level as SOG is - with bugs, no content, no plan whatsoever. /sarcasm on Oh yeah, Farlan later on called SOG a beta, way to go! now we definitely believe u mr Farlan, omg we were so wrong, it turns out its not a game after all, but a beta! WOOO, go Farlan /sarcasm off
Comments
LOL!
Well first off, the only reason they would change engines is because they have no legal rights to the one they stole...errr, are using at the moment.
And second, do you know how long it takes to make a game engine from scratch? There is no way they could do this unless they have been secretly working on another engine while developing the game on the exsisting one....that is...unless they stole this "new" engine too.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Ahh yes another interesting topic.
I shall make my post short and to the point on this one.
Just going to point out certain quotes and you decide.
Am I reading this right?
Farlan is saying that:
Anyone else see some discrepencies here?
This means that IF, and its a BIG IF, they manage to open the Beta Server again this month, they will have ONLY a month to test EVERYTHING out.
Let us be realistic peeps.
PS:
Closed Beta stoppped on December prior to SoG Launch.
They then stated it will be reopening the Closed Beta by January ...
______________________________
My Sager 5760 Review
Well, if with a little part of the game (SoG) are having so many troubles that many of them were not fixed after more than a month of they're happening (some of them still active, like Permabug people).... how we could trust that all will run well in DnL.... less than 2 month to begin and new and not betatester engine..
It make me laugh a lot xD
when in like 4 years when this game really comes out?
like they said themselves....
its not beta....
sog helped us fix login issues....
its not beta....
sog helped us fix balancing issues....
its not beta....
sog helped us fix server stability issues....
but its not beta!
Haha the first screenshot every single person was wearing the EXACT same armor. This game is going to be the suck =[
Admin of Hero's Hall
I have to admit, it was a decent interview.
For those that gripe that SoG is the actual beta, I have to agree in some aspects, in others I don't. I believe we are playing on the actual servers now in SoG, that DnL will be played on. 90% of the log in problems are gone, and I don't think this would have happened without SoG. The same goes with the prema-bug problems they are having. While not completely fixed, they have been working on it.
For those who were there at the start, I remember when we first downloaded the files and in one of them was labeled "Beta" file. So I do believe SoG was an earlier form of DnL, in one way or another.
In any MMO there are problems at start up and this is NP#'s/Farlans first game ever. Only time will tell. Hopefully they will do a good job.
Why does Farlan/DNL expect people to say OH OKAY when only MOST of the problems have been fixed but is still riddled with login and permabugs that still exist? They have even gone so far as to say it is not their side for the problems, so uninstall the game, buy this uber fantastic game card, buy some more ram , oh and get some more speed while you are it, install again and we will see if that fixes it. Guess what? People have done just that! (damn I wish I still owned the deed to that bridge in NY) and Guess what? They STILL have the problems.
As far as comparing an unfinished release to the other more popular games who released 3-5 years ago is no longer considered comparable. That may have been the accepted norm years ago, however, in that short span the mmo community has demanded and received much better quality releases. An unfinished problem ridden release is no longer the accepted norm.
Compare it to the most recently released games - currently-- and you will see that this is not even considered in alpha/beta stage yet.
Why does Farlan expect people to say OH OKAY when all of the promised features in the SOG not a beta, is a beta, not a beta will now not be implemented as promised but promise the full spectrum in the supersecret fanfriggintastic full release?
Why does Farlan expect people to say OH OKAY when they say this is not a Beta but also states SOG helped them fix any problems with the supersecret fanfriggintastic DNL?
Why does Farlan expect people to say OH OKAY when they release a prelude to a game on a substandard engine but promise that there is a newer shinier supersecret fanfriggintastic engine that will not be tested in full before release waiting in the wings for the lucky players?
Why does Farlan expect people to say OH OKAY when if you pre-order the game in order to gain instant access to the SOG not a beta, is a beta, not a beta substandard engine no content no features standalone game that has nothing to do with the supersecret fanfriggintastic newer shinier engine with full features ready to go that isnt released to be paid upfront, at order time, not when shipped and does not allow for any refund of any kind?
Even when coming clean and "telling the truth" -- they still fall short.
My disillusionment with SoG has nothing to do with the performance problems or lack of features. My problem has to do with game design. I am optomistic about game performance. I am pessimistic about game design. Here is a list of things which need to go away for DnL to a break out game instead of another EQ clone set on a terrific landscape:
Static Spawn
Fast Easy Leveling
Domination by those who put in the most time
Travel so fast it makes a large world small
Radar
Static Spawn is the epitome of a game where a world which does not change. Having events where the GMs change the world is a lame substitute for a world where players have control of the destiny. EQ clonesville
For an introduction to the expanse of Ganareth, fast leveling is probably a good idea in order for all content to be experienced in the short time life of SoG. I pray that the fast leveling will not be incorporated into DnL. We do not need another leveling up game.
Why does game content have to be tied to how much time you put into the game? Let us say you have a week off and can put in quite a bit of time. You will still be off the curve as you need to put in more time than other chars ALL the time to have an equal chance for experiencing the game. There are ways to mitigate the effect of this but I do not see any of those game design concepts in SoG.
I love that Ganareth is a huge gorgeous world ! This is a breakthrough in game design. Do not ruin it by putting in all sort of tools to make the world small again. Cherish the expansive world and make the logistics of getting around when distances are great part of the game play. It could be terrific.
Radar. Ugh. This could easily be gripe number one. DnL hopefully will be a visual world. Radar cheapens the experience to the nth degree. I could buy the notion of radar being used as a special ability after a single entity is tagged. That one target could be on 'radar'. No char should ever have the ability to sense all entities around them at great distances. I am hoping for some innovation. How about a visual world? Slowing down the speed of movement will make visual spotting of foe at great distances a important and fun aspect of game play.
My list of disappointments with SoG design is long which probably means a disappointment with DnL. Adding features to SoG which is so clearly an EQclone on a beautiful world engine will not be the total package breakthrough game I am hoping for.
Don't confuse what I'm about to say as me defending the Devs of DnL. I'm just stating the obvious: When they say that SoG has helped with solving some problems or prevented such problems from occuring in DnL it does not necessarily make it a BETA of DnL. If it did you would have to say that EQ was just a long running BETA for EQII. In face, you would have to say that any game that a Dev worked on or has any knowledge of would therefor be a BETA for what ever game with which they are currently busy. It's quite worrying that these guys are so horrible at communicating with their audience since they are the ones that are responsible for the games PR. It makes one wonder if it is truely a break down in the communication or if they are just trying to hide their true intentions with a cloud of deceit.
That said, I'm really worried about the final product if they are planning on having such a small time to truely open BETA this thing. I understand that they are using some of the models and lessons learned in SoG to improve DnL, but without actually letting people get in and mess with your game there is no way you're going to find out how good your improvements are. It's in these fine details that makes SoG something other than a BETA, but it's these details that scream out that they should really get their BETA testing into full swing. The DnL guys said that they were even using a different graphics engine for DnL. With that being the case they really need to get a mass amount of players on a server to see how well the code takes to the stress. I'm not really sure how they can say that they have fixed many of the design issues if they are still in closed BETA. Content, balance, and playability issues don't come to light till you have a large scale unbiased test group from which you can pool.
If on the other hand they are just planning on re-using SoG with a new graphics engine and more stable servers they are doomed to a very quick death. I say this not because I feel SoG is such a bad product (I have not played it so I can't give an oppinion), but because this would show that they have absolutely no respect for their customers and have no problems with openly lying to them time after time.
<cough> :ahem: When the Devs themselves say its not a beta, then it is a beta, then its not a beta ---- how can you NOT confuse it with a beta?
And as far as openly lying? They have done that throughout the Q&A series, on their boards, in the main pages and since the first promised release date of December '02.
Disrespect for their customers has been shown time and time and time again.
just a note if you read the interview he states that they do have a different engine for DnL.
"Yes of course, DnL is much more balanced than SOG. It offers more gameplays like craft and quests; a deeper skill tree; more NPCs, villages, etc.
The system of building fortresses will be more interactive, thanks to the economic system in DnL.
Graphically, DnL has a new engine with significantly different environmental areas and a higher rendering quality.
Characters will also have a better rendering, thanks to MOCAP integration for fights and emote. "
Well they could give the SOE rep a few lessons in sensible answers to questions. You cant argue with anyone that says "sorry" as much as it was used in that interview. I dont think SOE know the word exists, either that or they got it confused with "screw you".
All in all I have gone from considering a pre-order to adopting a wait and see.......
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Sog is or not a Beta? All people (except some blind fanboys) were bad informed about and due to this reason things that its a Beta?
I think "NO".
If all people things that SoG it's a betta is because it has the same problems, the same inconveniences and the same performance of a Beta. Or for being more reallistic, "of an alpha".
Maybe people is not as stupid as farlain/np3 thought
I miss DAoC
What a load of crap... Why would you put a game out that was not like the one you are going to release? OK.. give me a few more excuses that I do not believe.
This game is terrible
Dark & Light Team: No more features will be incorporated into SoG.
Whoa!
what about all the things they promised?
http://www.darkandlight.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24699
Here is some examples.
Settlers of Ganareth - Answers to your questions
*Crafting
Taking into consideration the timeline in which you will evolve in SoG, you will have to discover the beginnings of crafting. You will start, for example, by extracting crystals or wood. Crafting will get more and more complex as you discover this art.
*Quests
Some quests will immediately be available to you as you enter Settlers of Ganareth ; they will allow you to dig deeply in the world's story and culture. Events ingame will influence your quests from time to time.
*Will there be religions?
Yes, Alchemic Dream will explain how it will be managed in the near future. Each religion will have its own hierarchy and players will be able to run every rank within their religion.
*Will there be both Social XP and Fighting XP systems in SoG?
Yes, both will be implemented.
*Building villages:
This feature will be integrated during the course of SoG.
*Housing:
The housing system will not be available at the start of SoG, but should be integrated in a patch after.
*Exploration in SoG:
Exploration skills and the SxP system will be in SoG.
And what happened to the level 50 cap?
I've seen a lot of broken promises before but this is insane.
___________________________________________
Honestly, how can you accept an apology when they still have the knife in your back?
It would be wonderful that in next Q&A the points exponed by virtuella (and me, some time ago in another thread).
As once AD answered to Spanish comunity, there're more than 50 translated quests only for SoG, not DnL.
Thanks again for making them admiting some points, and admiting they LIED in previous Q&A refering Events
I miss DAoC
CMON.. give me a break. Farlan is not lying about the release date! They can make it by april EASILY. You dont think they can make it by april 2008??? Oh wait, was it 2006? Naw, sorry, it was a typo. We meant to say 2008! We sincerelly apologize for our typing error. We assure you to bring a quality game by our promised release date. Feel free to pay ridiculous amount of money for something that was but is not beta to DnL, even though we said it wasnt, but now it is, since I just told u that it is but it wasnt... am I confusing you? Dont worry, its gonna be allrite, trust me...
ON a serious note, first of all, why on earth would anyone realease a SUB game with 5% of features of the original game, and NOT call it a beta? I mean, if u take a car on a drivetest, and it turns out that car has no engine, would u be drive testing a complete car? I dont think so.
Second, lies lies lies. So many people quoted direct links from the OFFICIAL site... OMG all I could say (respect Kilim for digging out those facts)
Third, if you screwed up, have a decency to take the blame and bend over when necessary. As Samuel Jackson said "Shit doesnt just happen. Shit takes effort to happen.".
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I think the players are not only confused about that SoG and DnL are not the same game, they may have been confused about DnL and DNL, so if you found DnL disappointing, please pay to play (pre-order welcome) our best game ever, which is.....
DNL - Duck & Lie
LOL or Decieve and Lie with an expansion AWML - Apologies With More Lies - or just simply DITTO
EDIT: Newest sleazy tactic regarding this topic: A player on their boards at thier site asked why the features wont be implemented after being promised. A mod answered that it was never promised. A few other posters PWND! the Mod with direct quotes of the official statements made by Farlan and AD.
This Mod then comes back and says, paraphrasing:
he/she wasnt a mod at the time
pointed out that he/she used IIRC and "as far as I can recall"
wished he/she had used his/her player account to answer the question instead of the Mod account (!!)
that the official statement regarding what features would be implemented in SOG and these same statements used as a marketing tool for the $59.99 Upfront Pre-Order Pioneer Package payment with a no-refund deadline months in advance of official DNL release was dated 2 months ahead of the release of SOG, in that only that was the information AT THE TIME. (Remember now, the sale special was hyped a month in advance, then the release was delayed another 3 weeks - gosh 2 months from the date of the statement! )
So even the Mod was caught in a sleazy lie, tried to sleaze out of it, even stating a sleazy manuever of player/mod account, and actually put Farlan and AD in a much deeper pile than before.
This company, Farlan, and its affliate , AD just cant seem to get the slimy sleazeball covering off this nut.
I think DnL and SOG are the same game, but Farlan doesnt want us to see DNL because we all know what happend to SOG. If they released SOG and called it a game (even if its a prerelease and lacks content, they STILL called it a game, and not a BETA...) then I wonder if DNL isnt on the same level as SOG is - with bugs, no content, no plan whatsoever.
/sarcasm on
Oh yeah, Farlan later on called SOG a beta, way to go! now we definitely believe u mr Farlan, omg we were so wrong, it turns out its not a game after all, but a beta! WOOO, go Farlan
/sarcasm off
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.