Kind of funny ready your passage. I ask what is your foundation to base your opinion from. You stated your not a competitive person, yet you feel you have enough weight to pass judgement on anothers fun variance.
Being a military man, and a spouse thats in also. i can say that your statement on the military comes from the comfort of your easy chair.
How are you able to make such comparisons? Sounds to me like your making baseless comments and assumptions, while you hold the empty glass of experience.
its just as easy to say if you want to socialise and tell storys you should go out to a club or go play bingo. I even think some places still play old maid and goldfish, but im not totally sure. But then you could make the argument that you pay to play a game the way you want with the freedoms the developers provide you in game.
PVP is only limited to how the developers choose to present it. People are only able to do as much as they can by these very designs. Dont bash the gamer to playing the game, bash the developer that allows him the freedom to play that way. Or bash your self for play such a game when you cant handle it. Then pvp bashers wont have anything to cry about.
Example: Everquest2
Game by design not made for pvp. 8 lvl difference meaning you can kill people 8 lvls lower then you. but by design your toon can only kill things three lvls higher then you. So that leaves 5 lvls that you just cant do squat but take the death.
Example : Auto Assault.
Game by design is mostly for mob killing. Sure there is pvp and its fun but.. tier ladders are 10 lvl differences with a dice roll system. Meaning you'll be fighting stuff only a few lvls higher then you rest you will miss more then hit so why even do it unless your at those max lvls to pvp.
The best PVP can be found on pretty much one section of the market. And thats the first person shooter market. That market is undeniable the largest market on the PC. The market developers of RPG's cant seem to reach. It ain't like their not trying. And there are a good few that are in Development, and/or slated for development that will raise the bar closer to that niche in the market.
Do some unbiased research and you'll see what i say pans out.
Id also suggest you folks that just cant stand pvping, to read the box cover more careful, when making a desision to buy. Honestly you dont see pvpers sitting on boards on a sop box tryin to form a crying convention, telling the world how your getting owned.
I hear most of you going "I dont like people interfering with my quest"
Like I said, its egotism, expecting always to get your way, nobody should be able to interfere with what YOU want.
In PVP games life is not fair, you have to shed your ego to be successful.
Sometimes you have to ask for help from others. What a concept, NEEDING OTHERS. How humbling.
"But I dont want to need others, I want to be the solo hero who kills everyone, saves the princess, and gets l33t sword of ownage."
Like I said, PVE is all about childishness and always winning. Nobody loses, everybody wins, everybody's a golden hero.
In PVP you are seldom the hero, half the time you're fleeing from someone and trying to survive, the other half you're GROUPING with others, sticking together for survival.
I particularly like the games where you lose all your items.
Why?
Because you can craft those items, and wear what you made yourself, if you lose it you just make more, it takes the focus off VIRTUAL STUFF and puts the focus on GROUPING and TEAMWORK and INTELLIGENT PLAY.
Old school UO was the best PVP game of all time.
Eve and L2 are the current reighning champs in the PVP department.
I salute WoW for actually HAVING pure PVP servers, but they are too carebear.
Everything else out there right now is PVE stuff for little kids and oversensitive nerds with thin skins.
Please Fizzle. I like PVP combat a lot, but the stuff you're saying is just silly. People don't shed their ego in PVP games, in fact the worst greifers are all about ego. Take a look at WOW PVP, for example - do you really think that the people taking their 60 rogue down to gank lowbies in duskwood or ashenvale have put their ego aside? Or that the PVP teams that brag about how they roll PUGs but fail to mention that thy're using gear 20 levels higher than the PUG guys have set their ego aside to mature contemplation?
You say that EVE is the 'champion' PVP game, but I found the PVP rather dull; from what I saw, the vast majority of PVP 'action' was big gate camps blowing people away, pirates taking well-kitted ships up against newbies, haulers, and people fitted for ratting, or gigantic alliance fleets that spend most of the time not actually engaging each other in combat. One good read of the "Crime and Punishment" forums will establish quite well that a lot of the crowd who loves PVP does it for the ego boost of beating another person, not that they set their egos aside.
Plus, what's wrong with someome wanting to play a GAME and not have it interfered with, or avoid being 'humbled' by a gank squad or person who's been playing longer? You talk like it's some kind of crime for a person to want to enjoy a game. Personally, I'll take a PVE-only game over the current (or 'as-it-was-when-I left') state of PVP in a game like WOW, where pretty much the only PVP is raid-geared supermen rolling through non-raiders in BGs, twinked out level X9s using enchants to beat up lowbies trying out BGs, and high levels going around to lowbie areas to gank.
Originally posted by fizzle322 I hear most of you going "I dont like people interfering with my quest" Like I said, its egotism, expecting always to get your way, nobody should be able to interfere with what YOU want. In PVP games life is not fair, you have to shed your ego to be successful. Sometimes you have to ask for help from others. What a concept, NEEDING OTHERS. How humbling. "But I dont want to need others, I want to be the solo hero who kills everyone, saves the princess, and gets l33t sword of ownage." Like I said, PVE is all about childishness and always winning. Nobody loses, everybody wins, everybody's a golden hero. In PVP you are seldom the hero, half the time you're fleeing from someone and trying to survive, the other half you're GROUPING with others, sticking together for survival. I particularly like the games where you lose all your items. Why? Because you can craft those items, and wear what you made yourself, if you lose it you just make more, it takes the focus off VIRTUAL STUFF and puts the focus on GROUPING and TEAMWORK and INTELLIGENT PLAY. Old school UO was the best PVP game of all time. Eve and L2 are the current reighning champs in the PVP department. I salute WoW for actually HAVING pure PVP servers, but they are too carebear. Everything else out there right now is PVE stuff for little kids and oversensitive nerds with thin skins.
I think for most of us it all boils down to: do I want to deal with the same crap in the game as I deal with in real life? Or maybe I'm the only one who constantly deals with people who's sole purpose is to ruin your day?
You can call it egotism, but I fail to see how that is so. I'm an egotist because I do not wish to be disturbed during my 40 mins of game time by some 15 year old kid who has nothing better to do than spending 3 months leveling to max level and gathering phat loot so that he can go around wtfpwning every one in sight? Or because I don't want to deal with a balding middle manager with a pot belly, who's wife has left him and thus he is taking out his anger and sexual frustration on some random noob? Then maybe I am an egotist.
But, you know what I call egotistical? Imposing your idea of fun on other people. Which is exactly what happens on most PvP servers I've been on.
PvP is essentially free end game content. Now by free I mean the developer doesn't have to really do much work except keep the professions/jobs/class system interesting and deep. Now it doesn't have to be balanced, a level 10 healer going against a level 10 warrior may never have a chance to win ever. Which is why I think PvP is the ultimate endgame content because in most games you are going to group because there is no solo-pwnmobile-IWIN-button in most MMORPGs.
The combat also has to be worth something, in SWG they had the Galactic Civil War, although this was turned off and on, and the developers for some reason never got around to finishing it making it worthwhile. In EVE, the ultimate is owning a section of 0.0 space.
Originally posted by kahnz well if you like pve so much why don't you go out and kill real animals? what kind of argument is that? IMO trying to kill another player is ALOT harder than trying to kill any AI mob. People like different aspects of MMOs, i personally like them all. Social, political, economic, adventure and PvP. It doesn't make me any more or less of a gamer than any one else. However, the games that are out today are seriously lacking in PvE content IMO. FYI i like playing MMOs alot, but if there was a real fire breathing dragon in my front yard, my ass would be running out the back door. Does that mean i don't like PvE?
I do hunt real animals. I love to hunt and fish. What's your point again? I think I missed it.
Originally posted by Wardrop Kind of funny ready your passage. I ask what is your foundation to base your opinion from. You stated your not a competitive person, yet you feel you have enough weight to pass judgement on anothers fun variance. Being a military man, and a spouse thats in also. i can say that your statement on the military comes from the comfort of your easy chair. How are you able to make such comparisons? Sounds to me like your making baseless comments and assumptions, while you hold the empty glass of experience. its just as easy to say if you want to socialise and tell storys you should go out to a club or go play bingo. I even think some places still play old maid and goldfish, but im not totally sure. But then you could make the argument that you pay to play a game the way you want with the freedoms the developers provide you in game. PVP is only limited to how the developers choose to present it. People are only able to do as much as they can by these very designs. Dont bash the gamer to playing the game, bash the developer that allows him the freedom to play that way. Or bash your self for play such a game when you cant handle it. Then pvp bashers wont have anything to cry about. Example: Everquest2 Game by design not made for pvp. 8 lvl difference meaning you can kill people 8 lvls lower then you. but by design your toon can only kill things three lvls higher then you. So that leaves 5 lvls that you just cant do squat but take the death. Example : Auto Assault. Game by design is mostly for mob killing. Sure there is pvp and its fun but.. tier ladders are 10 lvl differences with a dice roll system. Meaning you'll be fighting stuff only a few lvls higher then you rest you will miss more then hit so why even do it unless your at those max lvls to pvp. The best PVP can be found on pretty much one section of the market. And thats the first person shooter market. That market is undeniable the largest market on the PC. The market developers of RPG's cant seem to reach. It ain't like their not trying. And there are a good few that are in Development, and/or slated for development that will raise the bar closer to that niche in the market. Do some unbiased research and you'll see what i say pans out. Id also suggest you folks that just cant stand pvping, to read the box cover more careful, when making a desision to buy. Honestly you dont see pvpers sitting on boards on a sop box tryin to form a crying convention, telling the world how your getting owned. All i can say is ROFL cry more
Wrong. I'm ex-military. I ain't sitting on no easy chair as you call it. 10 years of service. Only reason I'm not still in is because of an UNWANTED medical discharge because of a back injury. I did not want out and fought it all the way. I love being a Navy Corpsman.
Navy Corpsman. HM6. Went to Gulf War 1. I also have 2 sisters, a brother in law, and a nephew in the Navy.
What now?
I forgive you though. Now back to the PvP discussion.
then whats your point of hunting imaginary crappy online animals where it takes no skill to kill...just turn up where they spawn press play and sit back open a bear while your character hits them...
people play paint ball and laser strike...not becuase they are cowards and wont go to war as has been stated in this thread...but becuase its fun
Originally posted by GIRO then whats your point of hunting imaginary crappy online animals where it takes no skill to kill...just turn up where they spawn press play and sit back open a bear while your character hits them... people play paint ball and laser strike...not becuase they are cowards and wont go to war as has been stated in this thread...but becuase its fun
Because I don't hunt imaginary crappy animals online. I hunt BEASTIES!!!
Like I said, I like the story, the cooperative teamwork, and the whole fantasy thing. I like to read fantasy books too and watch fantasy movies. And I love stories of teams that form up to go conquer evil. Playing a game like that puts my imagination to work. It's fun for me.
And also like I said, I'm just not very competitive. I get more of a rise out of a group of people coming together and working as a team. Overcoming each others weaknesses and utilizing each others strengths.
Quote me in your answer next time Giro, so it's easier to find your response to me. I want to hear what you have to say and it's hard when I have to sort through everyone else's posts. Thanks.
Originally posted by porgie Wrong. I'm ex-military. I ain't sitting on no easy chair as you call it. 10 years of service. Only reason I'm not still in is because of an UNWANTED medical discharge because of a back injury. I did not want out and fought it all the way. I love being a Navy Corpsman. Navy Corpsman. HM6. Went to Gulf War 1. I also have 2 sisters, a brother in law, and a nephew in the Navy. What now? I forgive you though. Now back to the PvP discussion.
Awesome!!! I'm an old Navy Corpsman too. Served at Oaknoll Naval Hospital Oakland and Balboa Naval Hospital San Diego. Gulf War vet too.
PM me and tell me more. Maybe we have some mutual friends or something. Sweet!!!
Originally posted by porgie Originally posted by GIRO then whats your point of hunting imaginary crappy online animals where it takes no skill to kill...just turn up where they spawn press play and sit back open a bear while your character hits them... people play paint ball and laser strike...not becuase they are cowards and wont go to war as has been stated in this thread...but becuase its fun Because I don't hunt imaginary crappy animals online. I hunt BEASTIES!!! Like I said, I like the story, the cooperative teamwork, and the whole fantasy thing. I like to read fantasy books too and watch fantasy movies. And I love stories of teams that form up to go conquer evil. Playing a game like that puts my imagination to work. It's fun for me. And also like I said, I'm just not very competitive. I get more of a rise out of a group of people coming together and working as a team. Overcoming each others weaknesses and utilizing each others strengths. Quote me in your answer next time Giro, so it's easier to find your response to me. I want to hear what you have to say and it's hard when I have to sort through everyone else's posts. Thanks.
wouldnt you rather meet me while exploring and us work together...and witness a wrong doing or evil by another player character, and me and you create a team to bring them to justice or me and you on ourselves pick them off one by one for what we see as justice? or me and you wor as a team and run for the city to warn them of incoming danger and create a team to defend the city....all of which are player controlled
Originally posted by GIRO then whats your point of hunting imaginary crappy online animals where it takes no skill to kill...just turn up where they spawn press play and sit back open a bear while your character hits them... people play paint ball and laser strike...not becuase they are cowards and wont go to war as has been stated in this thread...but becuase its fun
Because I don't hunt imaginary crappy animals online. I hunt BEASTIES!!! Like I said, I like the story, the cooperative teamwork, and the whole fantasy thing. I like to read fantasy books too and watch fantasy movies. And I love stories of teams that form up to go conquer evil. Playing a game like that puts my imagination to work. It's fun for me. And also like I said, I'm just not very competitive. I get more of a rise out of a group of people coming together and working as a team. Overcoming each others weaknesses and utilizing each others strengths. Quote me in your answer next time Giro, so it's easier to find your response to me. I want to hear what you have to say and it's hard when I have to sort through everyone else's posts. Thanks.
wouldnt you rather meet me while exploring and us work together...and witness a wrong doing or evil by another player character, and me and you create a team to bring them to justice or me and you on ourselves pick them off one by one for what we see as justice? or me and you wor as a team and run for the city to warn them of incoming danger and create a team to defend the city....all of which are player controlled
Yup. That sounds cool. But I want to do it in a meaningful environment. I love games for the "escape" factor. Which is the reason I'm not too fond of games like Unreal Tournament. They just don't offer anything to me as far as getting into a game.
I do play DAoC though. And I have to admit that the PvP in that game is pretty cool. But DAoC has everything. I like the way they set things up with the realms. Then you've got your realm mates to team up with. It creates an environment where even people who may not have the same personalities still have a common cause. Defending your home realm.
ok then think of daoc without the realm versus realm...all player characters can be buddys.. all races can speak to each other...all races can make guilds together....all races can kill each other....we dont need the devs to force us into realm versus realm!!!!!! we can all be friendly...and also we can all be enemys, when willl you see realm versus realm is another easy way out for devs...if we want realm versus realm the players can create there own armies!!!! we can create our own realms....or even our own villages or even our own nomadic band....pls open your minds before you comment
Originally posted by GIRO ok then think of daoc without the realm versus realm...all player characters can be buddys.. all races can speak to each other...all races can make guilds together....all races can kill each other....we dont need the devs to force us into realm versus realm!!!!!! we can all be friendly...and also we can all be enemys, when willl you see realm versus realm is another easy way out for devs...if we want realm versus realm the players can create there own armies!!!! we can create our own realms....or even our own villages or even our own nomadic band....pls open your minds before you comment
So what exactly is the point of arguing a point with a game that doesn't exist? Isn't bashing people who don't like PvP being sort of closed minded also? Maybe people don't all like the same game, which is why there is more than one mmo out there.
Let's see. 4 million of the WoW players, that alone will make up a large percent of the MMO market. Along with many other games that have pvp players. I would say in the 75 percentile at least.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
There are quite a few WOW players who don't play on PVP servers, others who do but aren't really into it, some who play on PVP and went from being into it to disling it, etc. Counting 4 million WOW players as being really into PVP is just silly.
What is currently ruining PvP for any game and the gamers who want to play them are the PvP players that currently infest these games.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
PvP would be great if it wasn't the world largest magnet for attracting the most immature people on the planet.
I currently switched from a regular EQ2 server to the PvP server and have never previously on EQ2 encountered so many swear words and lack of courtesy and disrespect as I have seen on that server in two weeks.
PvP will need seriously strict rules enforced to discourage the type of players that currently infest most PvP centric games.
If someone disrespects you, punish them. Kill them. Take their loot. Camp them until they log off.
Send out respect if you want respect. If someone beats you in a fight, PM them "Good Fight." If they respond rudely, just /ignore. If you win a fight, treat the loser with respect.
I can't understand people who claim that swear words ruin a pvp enviroment. If you don't like it then turn your filter on and ignore people who talk that way. It's not like those words are coming out of your computer speakers. They are on a little chat box in the bottom corner of the screen.
PvP needs to allow players to enforce their own brand of justice.
What kind of theory is that? I mean ... what? You put a label on a lot of people (ok, you didn't put it there) and say "they are like this, and that is stupid." The biggest problem with PvP, and the best reason to avoid it, is found among those who desire PvP. You see, among them are found some serious ego strokers who might fit your description a lot better than several of the people you consider carebears. And those particular people don't enjoy a challenge so much as they enjoy the ability to whack helpless targets with higher numbers, stats and loot. They play the PvP game as a one way kick-those-below-you machine. And they brag about it.
Call me crazy. But that sounds FRIGHTENINGLY alot what people do in PvE. The whole, "whack helpless targets when they have no chance of winning."
You do have a point, PvE targets hardly ever pose a challenge provided you have the necessary stats/stuffs, or know exactly what behaviour won't even cause the enemy to attack until it dies. I didn't say PvE was more challenging than PvP. PvP has much more potential. But the very worst of the ego strokers are located among the PvP'ers. They also whack the defenceless, but to a much greater extent they call it a challenge, and let their victims know who they have been pwned by, and exactly how hard they have been pwned.
Only a few players need to behave like this to ruin a game, and any game that wishes to retain its quality as anything but an all out bashing game should prohibit certain behaviour and enforce those rules.
For example, when designers aim to solve a problem where one player has his experience destroyed by another player, and make it plain that they try to prevent this from happening: Certain players will find a way around the new system. They exploit weaknesses in the game rather than playing it as it was intended. And they know. For that, they should risk banning, in order to preserve the playability of the game. They can of course keep the games that permit such behaviour and play them to their hearts' content.
There are some other comments here that really do never (or hardly ever) really apply. If you seek a challenge in a game, trying to kill something, go kill something real instead? Some of the reason for doing it in a game is probably doing it safe from harm to yourself - but it is also the absence of harm done to others in the end. And you might be unfit for doing it in real life, without that making the gaming experience any less valuable. If you like violence on TV, it is no reason you should like or want real violence. "If you want experiences more like American Psycho..."
Games are an opportunity to do something you wouldn't do in your real life - if that is what you want. I like to see a story evolve. That is usually a horrible chore, but I've found my like minded in Adellion. I'm lucky that way. In Adellion, exploiters run a serious risk of banning, so as to preserve the actual game, the game both players and developers have wanted right from the start. It will have PvP, but while there is no protective flag, you'll be cheating if you kill for no purpose but killing. Because you are required to play a somewhat realistic character (and you're not allowed to play a realistic madman) you cannot jump right to murder. Violence will be low, but when it occurs, everything is on the line, and unless one has outmaneuvered the other, you might well stand on equal footing. The reason I think this might work is that we're mainly players who want that kind of game there. The game is being tailored for our little niche (estimated at 10,000 players).
There are some five six million other players? They can do as they please in other games. I don't want to need an "ignore" button to have a meaningful gaming environment.
The future: Adellion Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants) Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens) Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
Originally posted by Pantastic There are quite a few WOW players who don't play on PVP servers, others who do but aren't really into it, some who play on PVP and went from being into it to disling it, etc. Counting 4 million WOW players as being really into PVP is just silly.
That is why I didn't count the entire 5.5 million players of WoW. Most WoW players play on pvp servers. If they don't like pvp why would they play a pvp server and get ganked every 2 hours leveling up if they didn't have to?
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
PvP is god. Problem is it doesn't work with advancing levels, stats or gear. So you get stronger people ganking lowbies, and the lowbies complaining about it, which 'ruins' it for the gankers and so everybody's miserable.
PvP is much more bareable when the victims can actually fight back rather than just bending over and accepting the staff of sodemy +5. And in truth, other players>AI always. AI doesn't come after you or adapt to combat your playstyle. I'd say it works for animals and beasts, but NPCs are just wolves in mens clothing. Sort of there just to fill a hole in a warfare orientated lore. Seriously it can be enjoyable when you don't get too attached to virtual posessions.
Anybody who's played Planetside should have a rough idea of what MMO PvP should be.
Originally posted by Geeky What is currently ruining PvP for any game and the gamers who want to play them are the PvP players that currently infest these games.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> PvP would be great if it wasn't the world largest magnet for attracting the most immature people on the planet. I currently switched from a regular EQ2 server to the PvP server and have never previously on EQ2 encountered so many swear words and lack of courtesy and disrespect as I have seen on that server in two weeks. PvP will need seriously strict rules enforced to discourage the type of players that currently infest most PvP centric games.
I very much agree PvP is a wanker magnet. It brings out the worst in people.
Comments
Kind of funny ready your passage. I ask what is your foundation to base your opinion from. You stated your not a competitive person, yet you feel you have enough weight to pass judgement on anothers fun variance.
Being a military man, and a spouse thats in also. i can say that your statement on the military comes from the comfort of your easy chair.
How are you able to make such comparisons? Sounds to me like your making baseless comments and assumptions, while you hold the empty glass of experience.
its just as easy to say if you want to socialise and tell storys you should go out to a club or go play bingo. I even think some places still play old maid and goldfish, but im not totally sure. But then you could make the argument that you pay to play a game the way you want with the freedoms the developers provide you in game.
PVP is only limited to how the developers choose to present it. People are only able to do as much as they can by these very designs. Dont bash the gamer to playing the game, bash the developer that allows him the freedom to play that way. Or bash your self for play such a game when you cant handle it. Then pvp bashers wont have anything to cry about.
Example: Everquest2
Game by design not made for pvp. 8 lvl difference meaning you can kill people 8 lvls lower then you. but by design your toon can only kill things three lvls higher then you. So that leaves 5 lvls that you just cant do squat but take the death.
Example : Auto Assault.
Game by design is mostly for mob killing. Sure there is pvp and its fun but.. tier ladders are 10 lvl differences with a dice roll system. Meaning you'll be fighting stuff only a few lvls higher then you rest you will miss more then hit so why even do it unless your at those max lvls to pvp.
The best PVP can be found on pretty much one section of the market. And thats the first person shooter market. That market is undeniable the largest market on the PC. The market developers of RPG's cant seem to reach. It ain't like their not trying. And there are a good few that are in Development, and/or slated for development that will raise the bar closer to that niche in the market.
Do some unbiased research and you'll see what i say pans out.
Id also suggest you folks that just cant stand pvping, to read the box cover more careful, when making a desision to buy. Honestly you dont see pvpers sitting on boards on a sop box tryin to form a crying convention, telling the world how your getting owned.
All i can say is
ROFL cry more
FoE Fist of the Empire
_______________________________________________
Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
I hear most of you going "I dont like people interfering with my quest"
Like I said, its egotism, expecting always to get your way, nobody should be able to interfere with what YOU want.
In PVP games life is not fair, you have to shed your ego to be successful.
Sometimes you have to ask for help from others. What a concept, NEEDING OTHERS. How humbling.
"But I dont want to need others, I want to be the solo hero who kills everyone, saves the princess, and gets l33t sword of ownage."
Like I said, PVE is all about childishness and always winning. Nobody loses, everybody wins, everybody's a golden hero.
In PVP you are seldom the hero, half the time you're fleeing from someone and trying to survive, the other half you're GROUPING with others, sticking together for survival.
I particularly like the games where you lose all your items.
Why?
Because you can craft those items, and wear what you made yourself, if you lose it you just make more, it takes the focus off VIRTUAL STUFF and puts the focus on GROUPING and TEAMWORK and INTELLIGENT PLAY.
Old school UO was the best PVP game of all time.
Eve and L2 are the current reighning champs in the PVP department.
I salute WoW for actually HAVING pure PVP servers, but they are too carebear.
Everything else out there right now is PVE stuff for little kids and oversensitive nerds with thin skins.
well said fizzle
C
Please Fizzle. I like PVP combat a lot, but the stuff you're saying is just silly. People don't shed their ego in PVP games, in fact the worst greifers are all about ego. Take a look at WOW PVP, for example - do you really think that the people taking their 60 rogue down to gank lowbies in duskwood or ashenvale have put their ego aside? Or that the PVP teams that brag about how they roll PUGs but fail to mention that thy're using gear 20 levels higher than the PUG guys have set their ego aside to mature contemplation?
You say that EVE is the 'champion' PVP game, but I found the PVP rather dull; from what I saw, the vast majority of PVP 'action' was big gate camps blowing people away, pirates taking well-kitted ships up against newbies, haulers, and people fitted for ratting, or gigantic alliance fleets that spend most of the time not actually engaging each other in combat. One good read of the "Crime and Punishment" forums will establish quite well that a lot of the crowd who loves PVP does it for the ego boost of beating another person, not that they set their egos aside.
Plus, what's wrong with someome wanting to play a GAME and not have it interfered with, or avoid being 'humbled' by a gank squad or person who's been playing longer? You talk like it's some kind of crime for a person to want to enjoy a game. Personally, I'll take a PVE-only game over the current (or 'as-it-was-when-I left') state of PVP in a game like WOW, where pretty much the only PVP is raid-geared supermen rolling through non-raiders in BGs, twinked out level X9s using enchants to beat up lowbies trying out BGs, and high levels going around to lowbie areas to gank.
I think for most of us it all boils down to: do I want to deal with the same crap in the game as I deal with in real life? Or maybe I'm the only one who constantly deals with people who's sole purpose is to ruin your day?
You can call it egotism, but I fail to see how that is so. I'm an egotist because I do not wish to be disturbed during my 40 mins of game time by some 15 year old kid who has nothing better to do than spending 3 months leveling to max level and gathering phat loot so that he can go around wtfpwning every one in sight? Or because I don't want to deal with a balding middle manager with a pot belly, who's wife has left him and thus he is taking out his anger and sexual frustration on some random noob? Then maybe I am an egotist.
But, you know what I call egotistical? Imposing your idea of fun on other people. Which is exactly what happens on most PvP servers I've been on.
PvP is essentially free end game content. Now by free I mean the developer doesn't have to really do much work except keep the professions/jobs/class system interesting and deep. Now it doesn't have to be balanced, a level 10 healer going against a level 10 warrior may never have a chance to win ever. Which is why I think PvP is the ultimate endgame content because in most games you are going to group because there is no solo-pwnmobile-IWIN-button in most MMORPGs.
The combat also has to be worth something, in SWG they had the Galactic Civil War, although this was turned off and on, and the developers for some reason never got around to finishing it making it worthwhile. In EVE, the ultimate is owning a section of 0.0 space.
I do hunt real animals. I love to hunt and fish. What's your point again? I think I missed it.
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Wrong. I'm ex-military. I ain't sitting on no easy chair as you call it. 10 years of service. Only reason I'm not still in is because of an UNWANTED medical discharge because of a back injury. I did not want out and fought it all the way. I love being a Navy Corpsman.
Navy Corpsman. HM6. Went to Gulf War 1. I also have 2 sisters, a brother in law, and a nephew in the Navy.
What now?
I forgive you though. Now back to the PvP discussion.
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then whats your point of hunting imaginary crappy online animals where it takes no skill to kill...just turn up where they spawn press play and sit back open a bear while your character hits them...
people play paint ball and laser strike...not becuase they are cowards and wont go to war as has been stated in this thread...but becuase its fun
C
Because I don't hunt imaginary crappy animals online. I hunt BEASTIES!!!
Like I said, I like the story, the cooperative teamwork, and the whole fantasy thing. I like to read fantasy books too and watch fantasy movies. And I love stories of teams that form up to go conquer evil. Playing a game like that puts my imagination to work. It's fun for me.
And also like I said, I'm just not very competitive. I get more of a rise out of a group of people coming together and working as a team. Overcoming each others weaknesses and utilizing each others strengths.
Quote me in your answer next time Giro, so it's easier to find your response to me. I want to hear what you have to say and it's hard when I have to sort through everyone else's posts. Thanks.
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Awesome!!! I'm an old Navy Corpsman too. Served at Oaknoll Naval Hospital Oakland and Balboa Naval Hospital San Diego. Gulf War vet too.
PM me and tell me more. Maybe we have some mutual friends or something. Sweet!!!
<Puts Porgie on friends list>
Sorry, didn't mean to get off topic guys.
wouldnt you rather meet me while exploring and us work together...and witness a wrong doing or evil by another player character, and me and you create a team to bring them to justice or me and you on ourselves pick them off one by one for what we see as justice? or me and you wor as a team and run for the city to warn them of incoming danger and create a team to defend the city....all of which are player controlled
C
wouldnt you rather meet me while exploring and us work together...and witness a wrong doing or evil by another player character, and me and you create a team to bring them to justice or me and you on ourselves pick them off one by one for what we see as justice? or me and you wor as a team and run for the city to warn them of incoming danger and create a team to defend the city....all of which are player controlled
Yup. That sounds cool. But I want to do it in a meaningful environment. I love games for the "escape" factor. Which is the reason I'm not too fond of games like Unreal Tournament. They just don't offer anything to me as far as getting into a game.
I do play DAoC though. And I have to admit that the PvP in that game is pretty cool. But DAoC has everything. I like the way they set things up with the realms. Then you've got your realm mates to team up with. It creates an environment where even people who may not have the same personalities still have a common cause. Defending your home realm.
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ok then think of daoc without the realm versus realm...all player characters can be buddys.. all races can speak to each other...all races can make guilds together....all races can kill each other....we dont need the devs to force us into realm versus realm!!!!!! we can all be friendly...and also we can all be enemys, when willl you see realm versus realm is another easy way out for devs...if we want realm versus realm the players can create there own armies!!!! we can create our own realms....or even our own villages or even our own nomadic band....pls open your minds before you comment
C
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
What is currently ruining PvP for any game and the gamers who want to play them are the PvP players that currently infest these games.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
PvP would be great if it wasn't the world largest magnet for attracting the most immature people on the planet.
I currently switched from a regular EQ2 server to the PvP server and have never previously on EQ2 encountered so many swear words and lack of courtesy and disrespect as I have seen on that server in two weeks.
PvP will need seriously strict rules enforced to discourage the type of players that currently infest most PvP centric games.
posted by Geeky
PvP will need seriously strict rules enforced to discourage the type of players that currently infest most PvP centric games.
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How is this for a rule?:
If someone disrespects you, punish them. Kill them. Take their loot. Camp them until they log off.
Send out respect if you want respect. If someone beats you in a fight, PM them "Good Fight." If they respond rudely, just /ignore. If you win a fight, treat the loser with respect.
I can't understand people who claim that swear words ruin a pvp enviroment. If you don't like it then turn your filter on and ignore people who talk that way. It's not like those words are coming out of your computer speakers. They are on a little chat box in the bottom corner of the screen.
PvP needs to allow players to enforce their own brand of justice.
Which FF Character Are You?
You do have a point, PvE targets hardly ever pose a challenge provided you have the necessary stats/stuffs, or know exactly what behaviour won't even cause the enemy to attack until it dies. I didn't say PvE was more challenging than PvP. PvP has much more potential. But the very worst of the ego strokers are located among the PvP'ers. They also whack the defenceless, but to a much greater extent they call it a challenge, and let their victims know who they have been pwned by, and exactly how hard they have been pwned.
Only a few players need to behave like this to ruin a game, and any game that wishes to retain its quality as anything but an all out bashing game should prohibit certain behaviour and enforce those rules.
For example, when designers aim to solve a problem where one player has his experience destroyed by another player, and make it plain that they try to prevent this from happening: Certain players will find a way around the new system. They exploit weaknesses in the game rather than playing it as it was intended. And they know. For that, they should risk banning, in order to preserve the playability of the game. They can of course keep the games that permit such behaviour and play them to their hearts' content.
There are some other comments here that really do never (or hardly ever) really apply. If you seek a challenge in a game, trying to kill something, go kill something real instead? Some of the reason for doing it in a game is probably doing it safe from harm to yourself - but it is also the absence of harm done to others in the end. And you might be unfit for doing it in real life, without that making the gaming experience any less valuable. If you like violence on TV, it is no reason you should like or want real violence. "If you want experiences more like American Psycho..."
Games are an opportunity to do something you wouldn't do in your real life - if that is what you want. I like to see a story evolve. That is usually a horrible chore, but I've found my like minded in Adellion. I'm lucky that way. In Adellion, exploiters run a serious risk of banning, so as to preserve the actual game, the game both players and developers have wanted right from the start. It will have PvP, but while there is no protective flag, you'll be cheating if you kill for no purpose but killing. Because you are required to play a somewhat realistic character (and you're not allowed to play a realistic madman) you cannot jump right to murder. Violence will be low, but when it occurs, everything is on the line, and unless one has outmaneuvered the other, you might well stand on equal footing. The reason I think this might work is that we're mainly players who want that kind of game there. The game is being tailored for our little niche (estimated at 10,000 players).
There are some five six million other players? They can do as they please in other games. I don't want to need an "ignore" button to have a meaningful gaming environment.
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
PvP is god.
Problem is it doesn't work with advancing levels, stats or gear. So you get stronger people ganking lowbies, and the lowbies complaining about it, which 'ruins' it for the gankers and so everybody's miserable.
PvP is much more bareable when the victims can actually fight back rather than just bending over and accepting the staff of sodemy +5. And in truth, other players>AI always. AI doesn't come after you or adapt to combat your playstyle. I'd say it works for animals and beasts, but NPCs are just wolves in mens clothing. Sort of there just to fill a hole in a warfare orientated lore.
Seriously it can be enjoyable when you don't get too attached to virtual posessions.
Anybody who's played Planetside should have a rough idea of what MMO PvP should be.