whats wrong with mass farming?

Bloodgaze

i kinda asked this in another post but it was kinda off topic so im starting this post to find out what everyone thinks. i hear ppl everywhere bad mouthing ppl who mass farm rare and or unique items and makes loads of cash from them. if they are doing this all in game without cheats or any outside influence, what is wrong with it. why is everyone bad mouthing it. if you hate it tell me why? please and thank you.

Antipathy

The problem isn't farming as such, but when people farm and sell the results for real-world cash. Since a worker in a third world country can survive on a very minimal wage, the results of farming can be sold for quite small amounts of real world money. This can destabilize the economy of a game.

Why? When an item is farmed, it becomes far more commonly available - hence it's price drops. An item that without farming might fetch ten gold pieces, might might drop in value to only one gold piece if it is heavily farmed. Trade and gathering skills both become devalued.

Player skill is also devalued. Suppose you're a moderately good player of a game, and amass a set of equipment that is a little above average for your level. This means you can hold my own in pvp, and form a valued contribution to any party you join. However some other players get fed up with performing poorly and go out and buy large amounts of gold from a farmer. They use this gold to upgrade their equipment.  Suddenly all your hard earned kit looks distinctly second rate, and you get kicked out of groups for not doing enough damage, or healing fast enough or whatever. Is that what you want?

Bloodgaze

your point about destablizing the economy of a game is only valid if the game is stagnant. if the game is changing and adding new weapons and new mods and whatever the item may be, then the economy will become ever changing but that would add more fun to the game i think. that way you have to know whats how, whats not, where to farm everything, how to sell it. alot of ppl i talk to think its better to buy gold online and make money that way then to farm in game. that doesnt make sence to me because online buying has no work to it. at least farming you are working to an extent.

Antipathy

In adjusting to changes in  the economy etc., a certain amount of intellignece and common sense will always allow you to get by, although I think it is arrogant to assume that just because people live in third world countries and work for low wages then they are incapable of adjusting to a changing economy. Indeed, the hours they put in will offer them an advantage compared to many more "causal" players.

I'm not saying that farming makes a game impossible for people who refuse to buy online gold, but it certainly makes it harder.

Sturmwind

What's so hard to understand about RMT?

The more currency there is in the economy the less each single unit of money is worth. If you buy a thousand gold you wont be so worried about spending fifty gold on something that's only worth ten, whereas a player who works for his own gold is being screwed because suddenly he can no longer afford anything.

In games like World of Warcraft it isn't always evident since there's no transaction history. You have to actively track prices, which no World of Warcraft player is willing to do. It is very present though, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

In games like FFXI where the AH has a price history it's easier to see, and it's also easier to run into the ground. Most people just check what the last few prices are on the AH and set theirs up in a similar manner; if there's none up they usually price it higher, if there's a lot up they price it lower. If there are a few priced higher players who've bought gil will be more inclined to spend more, or splurge if you will, and now there's a transaction in the history of a higher price and now you have other players following it up.

In any game, massive amounts of currency entering the economy only devalues the currency, which affects everybody from the poor to the rich.

dunadurium

NoGold.org:

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Why is gold selling bad?

- SPORTSMANSHIP

MMORPGs are games, and most players expect their peers to treat them as such. Purchasing gold, items, and accounts from businesses detracts from the nature of the game. MMORPGs are hugely competitive (where players compete for levels, items, honor, and status). When players with large bank accounts simply buy their way to the top, it ruins that element of the game for everyone else.

- INFLATION

So, you are playing your MMORPG. You kill a rat with your mightysword, and loot 2 gold off its lifeless body. You shout for joy,and continue on playing.

Why were you happy? Because gold means something in your game. You use it to purchase armor, weapons, mounts, housing, and raw materialsfor your trade skills. You form guilds, ride on public transportation, and participate in events with it. People work to obtain gold in MMORPGs because it is worth something to them.

Gold farming (and the selling of it) creates inflation. Thinkof your MMORPG's economy as a pool of water (the money). Water is constantly being put in it while water is constantly being drained out at the same time. If there is too much water being put in (the gold farmers) and not enough water being drained out (costs from durability and mounts etc.) then the water will keep rising.

Drains for money in the economy (or money-sinks) are designed to keep the amount of money level. Gold farmers do not play by the intended design however. They don't spend money on armor, weapons, mounts,housing, or raw materials. They just add TONS of new money to the MMORPG economy.

This means that the value of your 2 gold drops. The gold farming artifically inflates the in game economy, forcing higher prices for items and ruining the ability for people who do not grind or buy gold to purchase items.

This leads to a cycle. Players must kill more and more rats to buy the same item, because gold buyers have bid up the price for said item. These players become frustrated with grinding gold, and are more likely to purchase gold from a seller for real money. This leads to further inflation.

- SWEATSHOPS

Where did you think gold sellers get their labor? Gold wholesalers employ hundreds of employees in third world countries. These laborers work 10-12 hour shifts for pennies an hour. The wholesaler then sells the gold to a major reseller in North American or Europe. Both the wholesaler and reseller in turn make massive profits. They exploit workers and MMORPG economies for a quick buck. Read an excellent article on 1up.com for more details on how the industry operates.

- AGAINST THE TOS

Section 8 of the World of Warcraft TOS:
"Remember, at the outset of these Terms of Use, where we discussed how you were "licensed" the right to use World of Warcraft, and that your license was "limited"? Well, here is one of the more important areas where these license limitations come into effect. Note that Blizzard Entertainment either owns, or has exclusively licensed, all of the content which appearsin World of Warcraft. Therefore, no one has the right to "sell" Blizzard Entertainment's content, except Blizzard Entertainment! So Blizzard Entertainmentdoes not recognize any property claims outside of World of Warcraft orthe purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything related to World of Warcraft. Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or exchange items outside of World of Warcraft."

Other MMORPGs have similar clauses. Simply put, selling anything in-game for real money is against the terms of service, and puts your account in jeopordy. Blizzard has banned players involved with gold buying and selling.

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Bloodgaze

but what i dont understand is anyone can go out and farm, anyone can go out and find a super rat and kill it, getting a unique item of some sort then sell it in game. thats why i dont understand why ppl are against it, because everyone can do it. once you buy then game, download the game or whatever you did to get it, you can do the exact same thing as anyone else in the game. if one person can kill this rat 20 times then why shouldnt he if that item is hot. if the game is introducing new items to replace the old, like most good games do, then the economy stabilizes itself. when you cross the line, like ppl with big bank accounts buying gold and items online then you are going above the game, then your doing something that not everyone can do. you are using extraordinary means to do good for yourself. thats the only thing i see bad, because not everyone can do it. but everyone can farm in game. when everyone is on equal ground, whos to say thats bad.

Sturmwind

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Originally posted by Bloodgaze
but what i dont understand is anyone can go out and farm, anyone can go out and find a super rat and kill it, getting a unique item of some sort then sell it in game. thats why i dont understand why ppl are against it, because everyone can do it. once you buy then game, download the game or whatever you did to get it, you can do the exact same thing as anyone else in the game. if one person can kill this rat 20 times then why shouldnt he if that item is hot. if the game is introducing new items to replace the old, like most good games do, then the economy stabilizes itself. when you cross the line, like ppl with big bank accounts buying gold and items online then you are going above the game, then your doing something that not everyone can do. you are using extraordinary means to do good for yourself. thats the only thing i see bad, because not everyone can do it. but everyone can farm in game. when everyone is on equal ground, whos to say thats bad.

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Anybody can go out and farm for hours, but all they can take with them is the hope that something rare drops, and the only thing most of them bring back with them at the end of the day is hope they'll find something tomorrow. It's not always enjoyable, but that's how it is.

I don't understand the concept of "introducing new items to replace the old", or "when everyone is on equal ground, who to say thats bad" but I'm assuming you're talking about buying currency?

Bloodgaze

no what im talking about is alot of ppl i talk to get bent out of shape about ppl who farm, who go out with hope and find all these rare drops, and sell them to make lost of money. i here ppl everywhere complaining about that saying its not right and i dont understand that. i mean i have gone out farming before for months, and a friend of mine joined then game, he went out 3 times and got a unique everytime. luck of the draw, but if everyone has the same game, and arent buying things online to aid them ingame, then they are on equal footing so anyone can do it, just might not get as lucky as others or not have as much time as others. but everyone will be able to do it.

Ragosch

You asked why many are against it - it is really simple: They do not want people to change a role-playing game into something plain commercial which is able to ruin their pleasure and game experience. After all MMOs are games, not virtual realities which are just another place to make money by exploitations; at least western MMOs are meant to be games, I am not so sure about asian MMOs which seem to be much different in this context and full of plain stupid item/gold farmers. But maybe I am simply unable to understand the asian way of playing MMOs.

Ragosch

Phrozn

Heh, Honestly.. Asian And Western MMO's Aren't that different... You get the same amount of gold farmers/lvl grinders ect, Then you get this unique mmo. People tend to think of asian mmo's as grind fests... why? Cause that's all that comes to Western from the asian market, Why do they sell good? Because people like the feeling of 'earning' something. Face it You like to earn that monthly check, You like to earn that first place in a race, You like to feel that 1st ranked on server feeling. People Love it. Only thing different about western? Instead of monster's grinding us.. It's quests... Quest quest quest WE GRIND QUESTS... thats all we do End game what do we do? Kill monsters that are beefed up versions of monster's we killed level's earlier...


Now As far as Farming, Nothing wrong with it, People complain why? they are to lazy to do it them selves, It earns you tons of cash in game, Weither you choose to sell it online is up to the farmer, no one has an advantage over this. Well, Maybe those with no job/school or limited time in these. So tell me... What makes farming bad if we all can do it, And some choose to, Just cause someone sells that gold online makes it bad? Okay then you would be able to say, Grinding is bad... why, lets face it some people buy level up's, Cash for items is bad, *not talking online i meant through game* cause person who has the money to throw around can get the best items, But why are we so up tight about this?


We're so uptight about people who are better then us, yet all those who complain about it.. dont tend to want to pay for games.... pay for items... grind, farm... they want it given to them.... Welcome to life, Online or offline, your going to have to work to get somewhere.


Just my opinions

larrioto

Personally, I would never buy an item with my real money because when i play MMORPG, i want to earn with items , levels and quest I don't want anybody or anything to help me with that.

Larrioto

larrioto

Personally, I would never buy an item with my real money because when i play MMORPG, i want to earn with items , levels and quest I don't want anybody or anything to help me with that.

Larrioto

**Sorry for double Post