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WAR WAR WAR....always war
wookiee
Member Posts: 151
Give me some MMOs without war? without killing? whats left? The Sims? Hello Kity online that has not worked in years? Think about how many movies have guns, killing, violence....how many video games are based on WAR.... what a simple concept.. are we not smarter as humans than to celebrate the oldest and dumbest contest among ourselvs?
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Jack HandeyI can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And
I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Rumor has it that the big boys spend around 30 mil a title -- I have no idea if thats accurate or not.
The only thing I can think of that would sell enough to recoup that money other then war on line would be sex on line. A "M" rated game all about pron may sell but I don't think fluffy the happy go lucky carebear who builds virtual picnic baskets would last too long.
Thats just IMO -- I think things need to go boom for most gamers to stay interested. Havign said that, it would be interesting -- but I can't remember the last time I played Civ 4 on the "no war" setting and had any fun.
Nukes in games are for a reason :P
well there has been car racing mmo's before.. they went big then died :P
humans= evil mauhahahaa
Anyway... I think one game that could be fun multiplayer would be Simcity. Sorta like how regions operate in Simcity 4, except that the nearby cities aren't "frozen" in time. (It's possible to have two cities next to each other that are exporting trash to one another, such that neither city ever has to deal with trash... When switching from one city to another, cancel the "buy trash" order and turn it into a "sell trash" order. Voila. Likewise, the best place to put a power plant is in a corner, because 3/4ths of the pollution is off the map.)
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Try out Toon Town from Disney..
They got a 3 Day Free Trial going and no CC Required..
http://play.toontown.com/webHome.php?r=619764&r=132113
And remember, I am the one that told ya
Nah, war is often used because it is a cheap way to add "content". Gotta kill X faction memeebrs X times to start the next quest chain and such. Or PvP like in WoW...well not really PvP but the little kiddie playground games like capture the flag. Why add story or such that takes time and talent to develope when you can tell players they are at war and save lots of cash on staff and development.
I have no problem with war in games, but few have war really. Warcraft has no war, Shadowbane did/does but lacks the population for it now. Warhammer may be a decent game, but it isn't shaping up to be a Warhammer style game, not a really Warhammer war if you can hide in an instance now is it?
A Tale in the Desert
non-violent, co-operative, social MMO. It has an extremely mature community with a fair sized population. I still don't know why it doesn't have it's own forum here......
MMOs are still new, dude, war is a cheap trick and it goes far for most folks. SEED is just proof that folks want to explore other sorts of plot driven MMOs. Ditto to A Tale in the Desert.
But... I still want my Goonies MMO! "HEY YOU GUYS!!!!!" ^__^
-- Bridget
It is all about the competitive nature of humans. Even in a non-combat MMO like Seed there will be friction between various guilds, the "combat" will be political, social and possibly economical. That is what attracts a lot of people to mmogs in the first place the competition between real people rather than a cleverly scripted AI character in F.E.A.R. for example. Whether that competition is combat or non-combat it will still be there. Heck some crafters are ultra-competitive despite being called a "carebear". Rather ironic I think.
No annoying animated GIF here!
I don't know if the OP's original problem was with war in mmo's or with combat in them, but you will not find many games without combat or war as a theme. While non-combat games can be fun, I think Seed Online has real potential, most heroes (which is what a player character is supposed to be) are created out of strife. How many economic heroes are there from mythology or folklore? How many stories are there of "Grath: the Moneylender!" I like social and economic games very much, but they will never have a mass appeal as an rpg.
The primary reason for war in mmos is because it is the easiest plot device to use in creating an enviornment from which heroes emerge. It's also the easiest theme to use to create additional content - and I use that loosely. War is modular and easy to adapt quests or missions to. And in an industry where the majority of designers see easy=money there will be games based on war. There are plenty of other plot devices to create settings in which heroes can exist, but they take time and effort to write. Not to mention eventially you would have to dumb it down anyways for less mature gamers.
___________~____________
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
People will always wage war, if not with weapons then on the stock-market.
I'm sure the first message from Earth to another civilisation will be: "WE COME IN PEACE".
(To understand... See Mars attacks)
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War, in essence is massivley multiplayer. It's the only real kind of competitive act that is or ever has been. Most other kinds of PvP would have to be instanced into games or matches like sports, racing, etc... and that would kind of defy the point of MMO.
The only other kind of competitiveness that suits an MMO is the persuit of wealth. 'Fluff' as some call it can be the center of a game, where you can literally build an entire virtual company from the ground up and be rolling in money or posessions. The only problem with that is it's not real and that all it proves is you have been playing the game too much.
Unfortunately war is the only path MMOs can take, but that doesn't mean you have to just become a mineless pawn of your chosen side. With games coming up with free for all PvP you can make your own rules either by yourself or with a group of friends. If you take the fighting out, all you're left with is a virtual world where nothing you do matters to anyone else, hence there's no point in there being any other players.
Um, no.
Just because war is the most obvious doesn't mean it is the only route a MMO can take. A Tale in the Desert is a successful MMO that contains no war. War is just an easy out to create "content", "plot", and "conflict" in many games. WoW has no real war, but they tell you it is there. Warhamemr isn't shaping up to have any real war either.
War isn't mindless killing because someone is a different faction, that is just genocide for no reason. War implies that that the point of view of the opposition conflicts with yours. WoW is a mindless grudge and once you get far enough into the plot you realize that it isn't a war at all because there is no real reason for the sides to be fighting eachother. Which is sad because in the actual Warcraft games there was a war and definate sides.
I couldn't quite work out what you were trying to say there but realise when I say 'war' I just mean massivley multiplayer conflict. Answering to the original post, there has to be conflict of some sort in these games or else the idea MMO is pointless, think about it.
Edit: Just looked up Tale in the Desert and that goes back to my earlier point of the competition for wealth. imo tho it's rather pointless, but that's only because I'd rather have actual posessions than virtual ones, same with money. In my eyes, simulating greed is a lot sadder than simulating war.
Well you said war, although war is a conflict it not all conflict is war. Also you are confusing free for all pvp and world pvp. Free for all is anyone anywhere, world is just anywhere but has sides.
BTW: you do realize selling things at all in any game is simulating greed right? I mean otherwise everyone would have what they want when they want it and there would be no reason to advance, no marketplace, no reason to have other weapons, no reason to play the game.
"War" type conflict games work the same way. I need to make income to level up to get int oa guild to raid to get the best gear to kill the opposition. I fail to see how that is less greedy than pure economics.
As long as the progression system and achievement is well developped and ideally group-centered and solo-centered (yes BOTH), I don't see a problem with any activity.
Fighting is simple to understand and it remove my urge to watch hockey, so I guess fighting in MMOs is good, unless you rather encourage the developpment of hockey? Would you do that?
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'd like to correct you, the Warhammer universe is actually a state of CONSTANT war, War amongst vampires, human, orcs, you get the picture. Nothing major, but thats kinda why it's called "Warhammer".
And yes, War in an MMO is an easy route to give a game a built-in plot and content, it's much harder doing it other ways.
As for humans themselves going to war, most of us are far to weak-willed to resist power and money, the main reasons humans even go to war.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Sorry, lol I just mean lots of fighting, I don't think the OP was actually singleing out 'war' as much as just general fighting and killing amongst lots of people, wether they're soldiers, mercanries, assassins, pirates or whatever.
And you're half right about the money>loot>success thing. The wealth where fighting is concerned is to aid that persons abilities in combat, not like Tale in the Desert where it is there purely for the fascination of pointless posession. Many combat orientated games are leaning this way too much though, where rare and valuable items make all the difference, more so than the persons actual skill. That's the reason I don't play games like that, I enjoy Planetside because there are no rare loots, or uber epics to win for you. It's just MMO war, no messing about just full on fighting from the moment you log in.
Fantasy RPGs can work this way too, where everyone is on a more or less level playing field. It's just most devs have no faith in their core game, so they add things like levels, expensive items and decorative houses to distract the player from the 'end game content'
Of course they can still have economy, but that economy has to fuel a cause of conflict, otherwise it's futile. And if pure crafters can't fight, then give them hireable NPCs to fight for them.
The Warhammer universe is in constant war, but the Warhammer MMO isn't the Warhammer universe in my eyes because it is not in constant war. It may be a good game, but sa I have stated before it doesn't seem to be Warhammer to me, just using the same name. But I also used to subscribe to White Dwarf, so my views are slanted to the older PnP campaign style.