Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Stop with the *there has never been solo content in D&D* argument.
primal303
Member Posts: 8
Below is a link to a ... gasp! SINGLE PLAYER MODULE! 
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1186&
And if it doesn't work, just type it in. Unless you are afraid your arguments for no solo content ever, may be put in jeapordy.
Yes I realize this is the 3.5 AD&D ruleset but I do remember playing a single player module for AD&D ver 1.0 as well. And I am not disputeing that D&D is primarily a group activity. Ofcourse it is. But Turbine turned it into an MMO. And playing MMOs for the last 6 years. They all seemed to have the *offer players solo content so they don't get bored waiting for a group* thread intwined in them. Even if it was just picking up a needle and thread and practicing tailoring. Something that D&D and DDO definetly don't have. Think the closest they came was creating one use scrolls or rechargeing wands and staves.
Even if they introduced a midly entertaining game like EQ1 did with Gems. It would still be solo content but un-related with game exp or loot. I shouldn't have to entertain myself while playing a game that was built to entertain me.
Like a poster said on another thread, bottom line is, they are a company, companies make money, if offering solo content makes them more money, they will eventually cave and offer it. Unless WOTC or whoever has it written in the rights contract that no solo content is to ever be distributed. But if someone at Turbine management signed something like, he has to want to get fired.
I want to see this game succeed. It's a blast from the past remodeled to meet todays standards. And now transfered to the MMO genre. I hope they realize that more people, people that have played D&D almost from its first incarnation in the red box with the dragon on it, want to like this game but have grown up and have jobs and families and can't or don't want to spend an hour forming a competent party.
When I used to play. It used to be with a bunch of friends and we regularly got together(rented a basement room in the local school) with our DM and pre-formed party(whoever showed was in the party) and had fun for hours. Now it's log in, hope some people in your friends are on, and then if they are, hope they aren't already in a grp, and if they are, decide if you would like to make new friends and wait for a grp anywhere from 1sec to 1hr(although being a rogue, it was pretty easy getting a group in a timely manner), etc....
This ain't D&D. It may resemble it to a good degree, but it ain't D&D. For me atleast.
Got away from my original rant but hopefully someone reading this will a) stop arguing that there has never been soloing in D&D and/or b) find this post useful in decideing wether to purchase DDO or not.
Thanks for reading.
Comments
If solo content does get added you will remove what little uniqueness DDO has.
No annoying animated GIF here!
How is a simpler and more player dependant form of a grouping system than Guild Wars a unique aspect? Functionally it is the same without the auto grouping.
DnD/PnP because you only found yourself soloing if you got lost or your
GM wanted to hold a solo campaign. Most of PnP can account that they've
done more group session then solo session and had more fun doing group
session then solo session for the simple fact solo didn't offer
interpersonal relationship and character development, which strength
their emotional bonds and social ties with other people, they met over
the internet or know in real life. That one was the one thing that
makes DnD fun.
Actually, choices of how to play the game is the least thought about aspect of any MMORPG because not everyone has the priviledge to solo. Not being able to solo doesn't make the game bad as soloing isn't really part of the content. Solo is a mere feature given to class who learn to utilize their abilities. Warriors in most game are incapable of soloing without a healer so soloing isn't a element that can be added for everyone, it's exploit classes obtain based on the abilities they are given.
Solo-stle gameplay is nothing more than a choice that players DESERVE. No one needs to be forced to group with other players every second of their gameplay in order to advance. There are MANY games that don't restrict players so much. One, and currently the most popular MMO in history, is WoW. Now, I'm not saying WoW is the be-all end-all of MMOs. But what I will say is that they made the game friendly to casual players who don't always want to group with others. Most people will group, but only when they feel like it. How would you feel about an MMO that didn't allow you to group with other players at all? You would probably consider it idiotic and a waste. It's the same to have a game deny the solo aspects of gaming.
There are points in DDO where it is difficult to find a group depending on when you're able to play. If you aren't on during peak times, you going to be lucky to find a group to go out with. And often it can take over half an HOUR to get a group together. Many people have found this to be a serious drawback to DDO, and they look to solo content to fill their gaming apetite. Or what about those days where you're just not feeling very social. Should that mean you cannot play your game? Of course not. The point is that people want and deserve choices. Solo vs. group, PvP vs. PvE, open vs. instanced,, fighter vs. caster, and the list goes on...
So many games offer soloable content, and it's an insult to the MMORPG community that DDO has thrown it by the wayside.
Actually if I remember right there were several series of solo modules for Basic and AD&D 1.0 right on up, at least while TSR ran D&D. That's a little beside the point however. The "classic" feel that Turbine is trying to capture is a group of freinds sitting around a table. I find the way that they went at it a bit puzzling, however.
In PnP one of the major aspects of the game was always travelling through the countryside, exploring. Joe average MMORPG actually captures this aspect of PnP a lot better than DDO.
Another major aspect, at least in our groups, was also side stories (that usually involved only one or two players). For example the theif has a solo adventure breaking into a house, stealing some loot, and then avoiding capture. The wizard has a solo session using spells to investigate a powerfull artifact that the party found. The monk or the druid go through trials in their order to qualify for advancement. The fighter gets drunk and ends up in a huge bar brawl. Two players pick off a camp of bandits over the course of a few days through clever strategy. These were the sorts of things you did when the entire group couldn't get together.
Instead of exploration and side-adventures, DDO to focuses on one aspect of the PnP experience. Dungeon crawls.
Now I can see why the devs decided to do this from a resources perspective. Do we have really focused polished dungeon crawls that offer an experience that nothing else on the market does, or do we have the same mediocre dungeons as every other game on the market embeded in a larger world? They decided to take a chance and do something different, and I salute them for it. However by eliminating the vast majority of exploration possibilities, and elimninating the solo game entireley, the devs created a game that will only cater to a relativley small market.
Most MMORPG players want to be able to solo when they feel like it, and don't like to play classes that are so interdependant that any class you pick has a glaring weakness.
A hardcore PnP fan that isn't already a MMORPG fan has likely been put off by the restrictions inherent in MMORPGs. They would be a lot more likely to head to something more flexible and customizable like NWN, or keep just keep using PnP (it's not like all your dice melt the first time you buy a PC).
So what your left with is a pretty niche market, imo. Of course the players that are looking for polished small party dungeon crawls will be served quite well, and will likely become rabid fans of DDO. I just hope that's enough players to keep this game afloat.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
CaptainRPG:
Warriors in WoW can solo fine. I did a lot of soloing to 60 and most players do to. You obviously never played a warrior in WoW.
And funny enough in EQ2 guardians have a hard time soloing at high level, but you obviously never seriously played either game.
WoW, EQ, EQ2, FFXI, and DDO grouping all are bad if the players don't know how to play their class, this isn't DDO specific. The difference is DDO has no real solo content but those do. If you don't know what you are doing in DDO the group will still fail.
In many ways DDO offers just lesser version of anything any other MMO offers. SO don't say it shouldn't be compared because it has a different title. It is basically a collection of rip offs from other games (but almost all MMOs steal from eachother) so it should be compared to those games.
I wasn't going to argue with you captain, but your post is just... urgh!
I don't know where you get the idea you are special, but you're not. As I've told before MMORPGs do not cater to just you.
The thing is alot of people enjoy solo and grouping, mmorpgs are made to cater to a large audience, not just PART of it. In order to have a good market it has to appeal to every playstyle(which is why wow is so popular). You have a opinion that grouping is the best way to go period, and that anyone who doesn't feel that way is a idiot. And frankly that is a very horrid opinion to have, but everyone has the right to their own opinion. Just realize your not stating facts, your stating a opinion, stop putting yourself on a pedastal(spelling).
Again, Warriors in WoW cannot
solo. Don't believe me? Go to website forums and ask around. Any
warrior player will tell you there biggest gripe is the fact they
cannot solo all to well like other class. A Rogue can solo simply for
the fact the player can do a lot of damage while a Warrior cannot do
real damage until it builds up enough rage to attack. Only way for a
Warrior to solo is if they are higher in levels than the enemy they are
fighting or they excels at alchemy, which is a rarely pick profession
among that class by the way.
EQ2 does, but then EQ2 pve content sucks.
Warriors in WoW can solo, i have a level 49 war whos basically soloed up there with no trouble at all. What you have read on forums is that protection spec warriors can't solo, fury and even arms wars can solo just fine, bandages for healing, or food you cook yourself. It's not hard, in fact its actually pretty easy.
And EQ2 has great group pve, in fact you can't even compare group pve vs solo pvp. It is SO much faster to group. Every class has its own role that it excels at. It is a decent system.
Same issue affected GW and ANet thought it would be wise to addhenchmen. Henchmen suck despite what you think, their armor and weapons
were worthless at higher levels and their AI could not be control or
change. For example; Orion was stuck with fire magic without the
ability to pick anything better, and his AI made him run into
point-blank range in melees to cast spells. So yeah, you would find
yourself relying on guild or PUG assistance to pass an instance. WoW
also has problems with grouping because PUGs do worse now then they did
back at launch. The only way you'll get through the higher level
instances is with a guild. You can solo some of the outside quests, but
not the high-level and endgame instances. And if you think outside
quest make up the majority of WoW questing content or think they are a
breeze then you are dumbass and you've never truly played the game
before.
Okay could you explain this to me please? You complain about relying on PUG or guild assistance to help with a instance, honestly VERY few people have a set party they use 24/7 pug or guild is the only other options.
MC/BWL/AQ/ZG are the only instances in WoW that requires a guild. Everything else is done with 5/10 man groups, which can be pug and can be guild. Either way the quests that run through here are dwarfed by the ammount that come before, at 60 alot of the content is instance, but besides those 4 instances the rest can be PUGd. Honestly there are alot of instance quests but there are TONS more outside ones...
Only you and a few others have
been dishearted by the fact you can be antisocial in a group-oriented
online RPG. Moreover, a game that is based around group-oriented
gameplay. You have to be complete idiot to not see that.
You saying DDO is wrong for not adding solo content. This is not you're
typical MMORPG, this game is DnD first then MMORPG second. Despite it's
lack of player satisifaction, it's still stay true to what made DnD
what it is today. If you feel cheated, it's because you expected DDO be
like every other MMORPG.
You can name and compare other rpgs like WoW, GW, and EQ2, but DDO
Once you realize this, you'll understand what a pompous brat you've been.isn't those games, nor do they have to offer that content to please
YOU. EQ2 offered the same content as WoW after they saw how well that
MMORPG did, but it still do nothing for their game reputation so this
is PROOF that copycat evidently doesn't improve the number of a game's
fanbase.
honestly you are a total hypocrit. You call people anti social, but you can't even honor other peoples opinions? Every single post i have read from you is hostile and inspires me to hostile. People don't want to never group, they just want something to do when they can't get a group. Stop changing the subject to make your arguement seem more true. If they only have a short amount of time to play, they want to play not stand around and shout for a group.
DDO is getting less and less players, thats a FACT, and if you think the system is so perfect, tell me why they are losing customers? And EQ2 copying wow? except for a few features the games are nothing alike, the way groups work, the way mobs scale, the way loot works, the way dungeons work, the way you level. It's totally different. The pvp is nothing alike either. Honestly EQ2 is more like daoc then wow.
And have you EVER played dnd? Having a DM constantly narrate dungeons does NOT make this game dnd. It is NOTHING like it besides just a few names, and a few systems(even tho alot has been changed).
DDO is just a mmorpg dressed up in dnd clothing. I've been playing dnd for about 6 years now, and I've never once had the amount of frustration i get during the entire period then my brief stay in ddo.
This game was based on an existing system and game world. You cannot compare it to other MMORPG's, other then to compare the features that they have, and how those features should have been included in DDO.
And the features in DDO fall way short of any reasonable expectations that come from the pnp crowd. To think of it they fall short on the mmorpg crowd also. Your defence of this game shows your complete inability to see the truth of the matter.
Which is turbine failed to deliver to either of it's targeted audiences.
Instead of moving on to something they like they keep paying for a game they think will change for their personal playstyle. Mainly sticking to the messageboards more than actually playing the game. Instant gratification from a developer is like a drug to them.
Its all about the "ME ME ME" and "I'm paying for this game to so you need to make ME ME ME the customer happy" attitude. In reality they are hurting the game and upsetting the rest of the players. No matter what the developers try to do they aren't going to make everyone happy.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
No one say they like the current incarnation of DnD in DDO, but because we aren't on the same page on solo available content doesn't mean we like the game the way it is. That's just your way of justify your reason to attack our statements. And it's hypocritical and ironic, to belittle DDO for not being more like DnD, yet at same time you ask for the game to be more like a MMORPG.
No one say they like the current incarnation of DnD in DDO, but because we aren't on the same page on solo available content doesn't mean we like the game the way it is. That's just your way of justify your reason to attack our statements. And it's hypocritical and ironic, to belittle DDO for not being more like DnD, yet at same time you ask for the game to be more like a MMORPG.
Look at what Briansho is saying... He/she is complaining about people being selfish, Me Me Me, and he/she wants those people to stop. Why? Because he/she says they are hurting the game. So in effect he/she is doing the same thing he is complaining about. If you complain about hurting the game, you must like the game the way it is, at least somewhat... So he/she doesn't want the game to add solo content, because it will ruin "his/her" game play... That is being Me Me Me.
No, Briansho is agreeing with what I said about you and some of the other asking for content completely irrevelant to everyone else and the group-oriented aspect of the game. Soloing will not enhance the group-oriented content nor draw more players. It's just an aspect you wish to have for your own enjoyment.
Briansho hasn't agreed that he likes the content in DDO and he isn't a hypocrite because he hasn't asked for anything while disagreeing with your wants & needs. Again, he's agreeing with me on the fact, you fail to see that you and a few others are selfishly pursuing the idea of adding content that is only revelant to you, but disguising your personal motives as mere suggestions for the good of all players.
Not to insult, but when we disagree with you, you automatically assume we like the content, which is narrow-minded. Like you, we hate what's being done with DDO by Turd-bine...excuse me, Turbine, but adding solo content isn't going to make it better. Any content that should be added should benefit all of us and not just yourself. You dislike grouping all the time as much as we dislike soloing all the time, which leaves a dilemma. The breaking point of this argument is based on the fact that most MMORPGs created their games to be more group-oriented and DDO is based DnD, which is group-oriented game so arguing that there should be soloing priviledges is mute for those reasons alone.
If you frustrated at the fact you can't get a group or can't get a good group then blame the fact that Turbine fails to draw enough players to play this game and/or for not confining all the players into one server instead of several server like GW. But don't enforcing the idea of solo content on the rest of us because you hate standing around. Until this game picks up, I suggest you play another game with a populated community that has higher percentages in finding groups.
No, Briansho is agreeing with what I said about you and some of the other asking for content completely irrevelant to everyone else and the group-oriented aspect of the game. Soloing will not enhance the group-oriented content nor draw more players. It's just an aspect you wish to have for your own enjoyment.
Wrong... I do not care if they put in Solo content. They (Turbine) had their chance and lost my monthly fee for this game. I don't care what they add, I will not go back to DDO.
Briansho hasn't agreed that he likes the content in DDO and he isn't a hypocrite because he hasn't asked for anything while disagreeing with your wants & needs. Again, he's agreeing with me on the fact, you fail to see that you and a few others are selfishly pursuing the idea of adding content that is only revelant to you, but disguising your personal motives as mere suggestions for the good of all players.
Yes he is... By default, if he does not want DDO ruined by adding solo content, he obviously thinks that it, DDO, is ok the way it is... Therefore, he is being one of the Me Me Me people he is complaining about. Or that adding solo content will change the way he likes to play DDO. Again, being Me Me Me...
Not to insult, but when we disagree with you, you automatically assume we like the content, which is narrow-minded. Like you, we hate what's being done with DDO by Turd-bine...excuse me, Turbine, but adding solo content isn't going to make it better. Any content that should be added should benefit all of us and not just yourself. You dislike grouping all the time as much as we dislike soloing all the time, which leaves a dilemma. The breaking point of this argument is based on the fact that most MMORPGs created their games to be more group-oriented and DDO is based DnD, which is group-oriented game so arguing that there should be soloing priviledges is mute for those reasons alone.
No I do not assume you do not like the content. He said that adding solo ability will ruin the game... If you or anyone thinks that it will be ruined, you must like it the way it is. Or at least a good share of it.
If you frustrated at the fact you can't get a group or can't get a good group then blame the fact that Turbine fails to draw enough players to play this game and/or for not confining all the players into one server instead of several server like GW. But don't enforcing the idea of solo content on the rest of us because you hate standing around. Until this game picks up, I suggest you play another game with a populated community that has higher percentages in finding groups.
Don't worry, I am not paying Turbine for, IMO, this piece of crap game. And just for the record, it is not solo content, or the lack of it, that is making this a bad game... There is a lot more wrong with DDO the no solo content.
We are all aware of what's wrong with DDO, but this topic is about why solo content shouldn't be added and what you are contributing here has nothing to do with the topic.
Y'know... ignoring the various pissing matches above, the fact remains that there is a lot of soloable content in DDO.
As a matter of fact, I'd say that the majority of the content is soloable with the right class, as long as you realize that the challenge rating is intended for a group of 4, and that the "right" class might not be the same for every adventure.
Just don't expect uber lewts.
Don't worry, I am not paying Turbine for, IMO, this piece of crap game. And just for the record, it is not solo content, or the lack of it, that is making this a bad game... There is a lot more wrong with DDO the no solo content.
We are all aware of what's wrong with DDO, but this topic is about why solo content shouldn't be added and what you are contributing here has nothing to do with the topic.We are all aware of what's wrong with DDO, but this topic is about why solo content shouldn't be added and what you are contributing here has nothing to do with the topic.
If what I am contributing has nothing to do with the topic, then your post have nothing to do with it either... And by the way, the subject of this thread is "Stop with the "there has never been solo content in D&D" argument"