For your employee costs calulations, here are the median wages from hotjobs
The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer I in Austin, TX, is $53,579 The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer II in Austin, TX, is $63,894. The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer III in Austin, TX, is $77,352 The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer IV in Austin, TX, is $94,244. The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer V in Austin, TX, is $100,710
They use the Star Wars name, if your a Diehard Star Wars fan, you will pay SOE even if the game sucks massive amounts of horse dung pile!
I guess I am not as big of a fan I thought I was, especially seeing Star Wars in the movie theatre when I was 6 years old and having every single action figure known to man at the time.
I still have my original bed sheets from the 70's (ehem, but not using them anymore LOL) <-- doh! Now I am saying too much
Anyways, SWG is like the Titanic now, it has hit the Iceberg and it is going down. Abandon ship at all costs or end up at the bottom of the sea with a cl80 or is it cl90 SWG Iconic Star Warsy toon.
Originally posted by Seloth For your employee costs calulations, here are the median wages from hotjobs The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer I in Austin, TX, is $53,579 The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer II in Austin, TX, is $63,894. The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer III in Austin, TX, is $77,352 The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer IV in Austin, TX, is $94,244. The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer V in Austin, TX, is $100,710
So, $77,352 times 1.5 (to cover taxes/benefits/insurance etc) = $116,028 on average
Times 20 devs = $2,320,560 per year
Then add admin costs (HR/Accounting/Managment/building/servers/bandwidth/software fees etc). These are going to be hard to calculate due to sharing with the other projects.
Then ADD the BIGGEST COST. The LICENSE FEE to LUCAS ARTS.
Originally posted by admriker444 G4TV - 7pm - 11pm weekend rate is 35k per 30 sec ad x 5 = 150k (rounding down due to possible discount)
G4 gets 35k a spot? That's a lot of cash to show an ad to a handfull of people. They'd get much more exposure if they paid a homeless guy 10 bucks to hold a sign up.
Most major cable channel networks get between 25k and 40k for that time / day slot. Now network tv, well we're talking 6 figures easy
Originally posted by admriker444 advertising budget has two problems. 1. ad budgets are rarely figured per a single project. More likely SOE has a single budget to cover all projects and allocates money according to need over many games. Future spending will certainly be reserved for their DC Comics MMO and maybe an expansion. SWG got their push for the NGE, but not much else will be spent on it unless an expansion comes.
2. two things offset ad costs....co-op advertising (ie shared costs with LA) and multiple purchased space discounts. For example, if you agree to purchase between 4-6 full page ads in PC Gamer, they might offer you a 10% discount on rates. Discount rates also apply for tv spots. I noticed around 6 commercials for SWG on Sci Fi network, around 5 on G4TV and a few elsewhere that I dont recall (definitely cable). Based on the time and ad rate for that particular station (yes I have the ad rates via my position teaching advertising).... G4TV - 7pm - 11pm weekend rate is 35k per 30 sec ad x 5 = 150k (rounding down due to possible discount) The other networks are roughly the same rate. If they ran say 20 commercials (30 sec spot) on primetime slots they may have spent 600k total during the NGE push. Ad rates for a major game mag like PC Gamer will run roughly 125k for a full page ad...little more for inside back page or backside cover page. I saw 2 ads for NGE in PC Gamer, = 250k They probably spent less than 1 million for advertising. And thats a one time cost as they arent going to advertising throughout the year
Don't forget, LA handles all the marketing for the game not SOE
We'd almost have to look at SOE all together. This will be off the top of my head, so I don't know how accurate it will be.
EQ EQ2 MxO SWG Planetside
There's a few smaller games, but I don't think they really have costs or fees associated with them. Subs That's a hard thing to calculate, but I think Smed said at one point that SOE has over 400k subscribers. With the station pass becoming more popular, let's say half are station passes. (a generous estimate.) So, 200k @ 21.95 = $4,390,000 200k @ 14.95 = $2,990,000 total monthly income from subs: $7,380,000
Let's just look at upkeep now. Box sales do add to it, but development costs before release would probably offset the income from game sales.
I'll use SWG numbers and then extrapolate to the other games. Again, these are rough estimates. 70 devs for SWG (LMAO! yeah, RIGHT!) I'll say 70 for EQ1 and 2 combined. 30 for MxO and 30 for Planetside total of 200 developers. Let's give them an annual salary average of 65k Broken down monthly that's $1,083,333. Then there's other staff. HR, marketing, IT, Smed. Probably another $1,000,000 for other staff. Around 2.1 million per month for salaries. Now, the rule of thumb for employers is that total costs for an employee after benefits, 401k, taxes, unemployment insurance, workers comp etc, is usually double a person's salary. So, let's take that to 4 million per month to pay for all employees. I wonder what their electrical bill is every month, or how much their bandwidth costs.
Now, if we break down profit/loss by game, that could be interesting. It's probably safe to say that EQ1 and 2 are probably where 65% of the subs are. SWG probably 20% 10% for MxO and 5% for Planetside.
So, let's take the revenue and break it apart per game. EQ 1 and 2: $4,797,000 SWG: $1,476,000 MxO: $738,000 Planetside: 369,000
Costs have to be split up a little more evenly. since developers cost the same regardless of how many subs. I'll use 6.5 million for an estimate of total costs. EQ 1 and 2: $2,275,000 SWG: 2,275,000 MxO: 975,000 Planetside: 975,000
LA probably pays for advertising and not SOE. SOE covers publishing. Making the CDs, boxes, shipping, etc. SOE does have to pay for advertising for the rest of their games though. I guees what I'm getting at is that overall, SOE might be making money, but EQ is probably profiting to cover the shortages from SWG for now. This doesn't include what the license is costing. This is a little over simplified, but helps to get an idea.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP Eve: Cardoh Dycen I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Originally posted by admriker444G4TV - 7pm - 11pm weekend rate is 35k per 30 sec ad x 5 = 150k (rounding down due to possible discount)
G4 gets 35k a spot? That's a lot of cash to show an ad to a handfull of people. They'd get much more exposure if they paid a homeless guy 10 bucks to hold a sign up.
Most major cable channel networks get between 25k and 40k for that time / day slot. Now network tv, well we're talking 6 figures easy
I know that..I'm IN television, but G4 is HARDLY a major cable network. I'd be shocked if they get 10k a spot. SHOCKED.
P.S. MxO and Planetside doesn't have 30 devs each. Maybe 10 combined.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by JediGeek LA probably pays for advertising and not SOE. SOE covers publishing. Making the CDs, boxes, shipping, etc. SOE does have to pay for advertising for the rest of their games though.
LA is the published and I'm pretty sure that they deal with that stuff too. That Friday Smed was posting, when someone said that the game cards had gone missing he said that he'd have to check with LA since that's their department...
Originally posted by webbt01 Hi all, long time listener first time caller...
Have never played SWG, i am a big fan of WOW, Guild Wars and of cause FABLE!!! I cant be ar$ed with an online community and all the dramas that go with it, as real life dramas add more than enough stress to my life... However that been said its ironic that I have been following the SWG drama like a junkie hooked on smack...
My question is how on earth are Sony Online funding this, sure they are a massive corporate company and can throw a couple of billion here and there but if you do the maths it wont be long till a bomb will drop!!! OK so here are my calculations... "My mum says I am an awsome at maths so dont flame me" ~50,000 paying subs at ~$10 a month = 0.5 Mil a month or 6 Mil a year at least 20 developers on 100K a year = 2 Mil a year (including system admins) THIS IS CHEAP! around a 2 - 5 mil advertising budget bandwidth, server maintenance, backups etc another ~2 mil
Anyway post your thoughts in a contructive manner... Please correct me on any figures as I am extremely interested in the costs invloved in relation to running a MMO... FOR THE HORDE
They could be having bake sales, or maybe Dev carwashes. Just a thought.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by admriker444 Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by admriker444G4TV - 7pm - 11pm weekend rate is 35k per 30 sec ad x 5 = 150k (rounding down due to possible discount)
G4 gets 35k a spot? That's a lot of cash to show an ad to a handfull of people. They'd get much more exposure if they paid a homeless guy 10 bucks to hold a sign up.
Most major cable channel networks get between 25k and 40k for that time / day slot. Now network tv, well we're talking 6 figures easy
I know that..I'm IN television, but G4 is HARDLY a major cable network. I'd be shocked if they get 10k a spot. SHOCKED. P.S. MxO and Planetside doesn't have 30 devs each. Maybe 10 combined.
Granted G4 doesnt have the audience or access to all areas of North America. However they can get away with charging a comparable rate to say TNT Network, Lifetime, USA, Sci Fi, etc because they have a specific concentration of said demographic. While the other networks cant guarantee a certain demographic (even Lifetime has its share of men viewers) 100% of the time, G4 pretty much has the same audience 24/7
At least this is what their sales pitch to advertising agencies says
Comments
For your employee costs calulations, here are the median wages from hotjobs
The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer I in Austin, TX, is $53,579
The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer II in Austin, TX, is $63,894.
The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer III in Austin, TX, is $77,352
The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer IV in Austin, TX, is $94,244.
The median expected salary for a typical Client/Server Programmer V in Austin, TX, is $100,710
How is Sony Funding SWG???
simple..
They use the Star Wars name, if your a Diehard Star Wars fan, you will pay SOE even if the game sucks massive amounts of horse dung pile!
I guess I am not as big of a fan I thought I was, especially seeing Star Wars in the movie theatre when I was 6 years old and having every single action figure known to man at the time.
I still have my original bed sheets from the 70's (ehem, but not using them anymore LOL) <-- doh! Now I am saying too much
Anyways, SWG is like the Titanic now, it has hit the Iceberg and it is going down. Abandon ship at all costs or end up at the bottom of the sea with a cl80 or is it cl90 SWG Iconic Star Warsy toon.
So, $77,352 times 1.5 (to cover taxes/benefits/insurance etc) = $116,028 on average
Times 20 devs = $2,320,560 per year
Then add admin costs (HR/Accounting/Managment/building/servers/bandwidth/software fees etc). These are going to be hard to calculate due to sharing with the other projects.
Then ADD the BIGGEST COST. The LICENSE FEE to LUCAS ARTS.
G4 gets 35k a spot? That's a lot of cash to show an ad to a handfull of people. They'd get much more exposure if they paid a homeless guy 10 bucks to hold a sign up.
Most major cable channel networks get between 25k and 40k for that time / day slot. Now network tv, well we're talking 6 figures easy
We'd almost have to look at SOE all together. This will be off the top of my head, so I don't know how accurate it will be.
EQ
EQ2
MxO
SWG
Planetside
There's a few smaller games, but I don't think they really have costs or fees associated with them.
Subs
That's a hard thing to calculate, but I think Smed said at one point that SOE has over 400k subscribers.
With the station pass becoming more popular, let's say half are station passes. (a generous estimate.)
So, 200k @ 21.95 = $4,390,000
200k @ 14.95 = $2,990,000
total monthly income from subs: $7,380,000
Let's just look at upkeep now. Box sales do add to it, but development costs before release would probably offset the income from game sales.
I'll use SWG numbers and then extrapolate to the other games. Again, these are rough estimates.
70 devs for SWG (LMAO! yeah, RIGHT!)
I'll say 70 for EQ1 and 2 combined.
30 for MxO and 30 for Planetside
total of 200 developers. Let's give them an annual salary average of 65k
Broken down monthly that's $1,083,333.
Then there's other staff. HR, marketing, IT, Smed. Probably another $1,000,000 for other staff.
Around 2.1 million per month for salaries. Now, the rule of thumb for employers is that total costs for an employee after benefits, 401k, taxes, unemployment insurance, workers comp etc, is usually double a person's salary. So, let's take that to 4 million per month to pay for all employees.
I wonder what their electrical bill is every month, or how much their bandwidth costs.
Now, if we break down profit/loss by game, that could be interesting.
It's probably safe to say that EQ1 and 2 are probably where 65% of the subs are.
SWG probably 20%
10% for MxO and 5% for Planetside.
So, let's take the revenue and break it apart per game.
EQ 1 and 2: $4,797,000
SWG: $1,476,000
MxO: $738,000
Planetside: 369,000
Costs have to be split up a little more evenly. since developers cost the same regardless of how many subs. I'll use 6.5 million for an estimate of total costs.
EQ 1 and 2: $2,275,000
SWG: 2,275,000
MxO: 975,000
Planetside: 975,000
LA probably pays for advertising and not SOE. SOE covers publishing. Making the CDs, boxes, shipping, etc. SOE does have to pay for advertising for the rest of their games though.
I guees what I'm getting at is that overall, SOE might be making money, but EQ is probably profiting to cover the shortages from SWG for now. This doesn't include what the license is costing. This is a little over simplified, but helps to get an idea.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP
Eve: Cardoh Dycen
I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Originally posted by admriker444
Originally posted by Shayde
Originally posted by admriker444G4TV - 7pm - 11pm weekend rate is 35k per 30 sec ad x 5 = 150k (rounding down due to possible discount)
G4 gets 35k a spot? That's a lot of cash to show an ad to a handfull of people. They'd get much more exposure if they paid a homeless guy 10 bucks to hold a sign up.
Most major cable channel networks get between 25k and 40k for that time / day slot. Now network tv, well we're talking 6 figures easy
I know that..I'm IN television, but G4 is HARDLY a major cable network. I'd be shocked if they get 10k a spot. SHOCKED.
P.S. MxO and Planetside doesn't have 30 devs each. Maybe 10 combined.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
He already has! =o
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin