Wouldn't it be better to encourage kids to read something they want to rather than shoving Shakespeare or Charles Dickens down their throats. At least they won't fall asleep. You know they are going to crib off the internet for the exams anyway.
Originally posted by reavo Yes, America is changing. Look at the people we put in power. She's just riding on the evangelical political surf.
This is the reason for seperation of church and state. It's the reason that people like Thomas Jefferson was such a proponent of the split.
For a man that seems to worship Thomas Jefferson, you seem to be rather ignorant of his motives for even stating that. His fear was that the government would seep into the Church and corrupt it, not that the Church would have sway over the government. For in fact, the Church in the essence of the people who believed in Christian dogma, had TREMENDOUS sway over the country from it's founding to about the 1950, with as the years passing on the sway it had over government institution dwindling.
In fact, even though the nation was never labeled OFFICIALLY as a Christian nation; if you know the history of legislation and the laws passed in most states, you would clearly see for the most part, it was indeed a Christian nation. Many a colony/state would officialize a certain sect of belief, which was in the Christian arena, to the states religion.
Christianity had tremendous sway over the nation back then, moreso than you can seem to fathom. What Thomas Jefferson was afraid of was not Christians holding tremendous sway in legislation of our laws based upon their view of morality and freedom influenced by their belief in their religion, for that had already happend, was happening, and would continue to happen for quite a while. His fear would be that akin to many governments in europe, the officials would assimilate the Church into the Government, and would force people to believe their view of what Christianity should be.
Like how the Catholic church treated Martin Luther and the people involved in the reformation, it didn't fit into their system of Christianity because of their obsession with tradition, so they crucified them(Non-literal of course, burning would be a more accurate description).
There are enough people over here who would love nothing less than an American theocracy.
I don't even know where to begin.
First off, you're half right. He was concerned about the government meddling in religious activities. That was one of the reasons he spoke of a wall of seperation. Reference the Danbury Baptist Association letter. And that will back up your conclusion.
However, Jefferson was also concerned about the church influencing government. He wasn't just a one show guy. He was very intellectual and had wonderful foresight. -------------------------------------------------------- ---"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.
He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return
for protection to his own." (Letter to H. Spafford, 1814).
---"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into
the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the
civil and religious rights of man." (Letter to J. Moor, 1800). --------------------------------------------------------
And I do fathom the influence of christianity on the nations people back then. However, I am also able to fathom the idea that the founding fathers were very smart. Smart enough to know that religion couldn't be an influence on the type of government they were wanting to build. They were also highly influenced by the new philosophy of reason. One that didn't mix too well with the religious leaders of their time.
The government and religion have to be seperate for liberty and freedom to be practiced in our country. So to call this a 'christian nation' is, in my opinion, belittling the ideas of liberty and freedom that this country was built upon. A christian nation is not one that can practice liberty and freedom. It's impossible for true christians to adhere to those beliefs. Look at what this lady is trying to do to books!
And your statement seems to say that just because our legislation has similarities to some of the christian values is reason enough to conclude that we can be called a christian nation. Well, I'm not a christian and I hold a lot of the same moral values christians hold too. But that doesn't make me a christian. There is a lot of legislation in this country that goes opposite what the Bible teaches. So does that not negate the 'christian nation' idea?
I also know that Thomas Jefferson was a deist. And believed that our relationship with God should be a personal and unique relationship. I am 99.9% sure that he would think Harry Potter books are A-OK to read.
Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by Aldaron
For a man that seems to worship Thomas Jefferson, you seem to be rather ignorant of his motives for even stating that. His fear was that the government would seep into the Church and corrupt it, not that the Church would have sway over the government. For in fact, the Church in the essence of the people who believed in Christian dogma, had TREMENDOUS sway over the country from it's founding to about the 1950, with as the years passing on the sway it had over government institution dwindling.
In fact, even though the nation was never labeled OFFICIALLY as a Christian nation; if you know the history of legislation and the laws passed in most states, you would clearly see for the most part, it was indeed a Christian nation. Many a colony/state would officialize a certain sect of belief, which was in the Christian arena, to the states religion.
Christianity had tremendous sway over the nation back then, moreso than you can seem to fathom. What Thomas Jefferson was afraid of was not Christians holding tremendous sway in legislation of our laws based upon their view of morality and freedom influenced by their belief in their religion, for that had already happend, was happening, and would continue to happen for quite a while. His fear would be that akin to many governments in europe, the officials would assimilate the Church into the Government, and would force people to believe their view of what Christianity should be.
You do know Jefferson wasn't a christian don't you? He was a unitarian. Part of the reason for the seperation of church and state and his speach about doing it for the good of religions is because most of the "founding fathers" were quaker, unitarian, or christian in name only. He feared that the christain majority (is was for the general populas) would destroy the freedoms of the free thinkers which were building the country, much like the post reniassance[sp?] in europe.
Yes the seperation was there to protect his religion, but from christians. If you ever goto Boston area on the tours directly across the street from Harvard in Cambridge is the Unitarian graveyard where parts of his family are buried, guess why.
Yes! Yes! Thanks for getting my back. lol. I didn't read your response until after I made mine.
I thought Harry Potter was a book that you were supposed to read to your kids as bed time stories... Not scholastic material that is meant for kids to read.. and learn... That is retarded... lol but so is chronicals of narinia, which is also supposed to be a bed time story... What ever happened to the books that taught their children something about life... and how it works.. .Like "Animal Farm" or "the Silver Sword" or "The Count of Monte Cristo" or "I am the Cheese"... All of those were great books.. each with something that you could take from and apply to life....or learn about life...
I dont want my kids thinking that witches and warlocks is school work... I want them to actually enjoy it when they read about warlocks and fantasy and the such...... and take it for the fantasy aspect ... not associate it with school...
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Originally posted by reavo And your statement seems to say that just because our legislation has similarities to some of the christian values is reason enough to conclude that we can be called a christian nation. Well, I'm not a christian and I hold a lot of the same moral values christians hold too. But that doesn't make me a christian. There is a lot of legislation in this country that goes opposite what the Bible teaches. So does that not negate the 'christian nation' idea?
I also know that Thomas Jefferson was a deist. And believed that our relationship with God should be a personal and unique relationship. I am 99.9% sure that he would think Harry Potter books are A-OK to read.
Thanks for the response!
The "Christian values" and laws are often what are called "natural laws" and although are listed in teh Bible they are common to most religions and societies. Things like not murdering and stealing etc. I have no issue with Christians, until they claim these as unique to them, because they just are not. They are shared beliefs and values, not exclusive to Christianity. In fact most predate Christianity by a rather large margin.
No one can claim murdering being bad as exclusive to them. And until the US accepts absolution and confession as freeing you of all crimes I don't really think we should be calling it a Christian nation. The majority of the population may be Christian (changes regularily, but is often the largest group at any given time), but that doesn't make it a Christian nation. Even if the specific people elected into office are Christian until they pass laws exclusive to Christianity it is not a Christian nation.
Originally posted by methane47 I thought Harry Potter was a book that you were supposed to read to your kids as bed time stories... Not scholastic material that is meant for kids to read.. and learn... That is retarded... lol but so is chronicals of narinia, which is also supposed to be a bed time story... What ever happened to the books that taught their children something about life... and how it works.. .Like "Animal Farm" or "the Silver Sword" or "The Count of Monte Cristo" or "I am the Cheese"... All of those were great books.. each with something that you could take from and apply to life....or learn about life...
I dont want my kids thinking that witches and warlocks is school work... I want them to actually enjoy it when they read about warlocks and fantasy and the such...... and take it for the fantasy aspect ... not associate it with school...
Under that logic, we should remove every single subject except for the 3 r's, reading, riting and rythmithic. Last i checked encouraging the growth of creatity and imagination are a good thing. Almost every single profession you can think of benefits incredibly from people who are very imaginative and creative. Hhow many professions where a lack of imagination and creativity is a good thing?
What you are really saying is they should only teach subjects that limits childrens minds to one ideology or rather theology, thats called brainwashing. Education is learning about everything, to give someone the widest range of mental knowledge/tools to comprehend the world around them and make better decisions because of it.
As for them enjoying it, you are again making vast assumptions. Who says they wouldnt enjoy it, you? Well contrary to your belief, thats hardly a proven commodity.
Originally posted by methane47 I thought Harry Potter was a book that you were supposed to read to your kids as bed time stories... Not scholastic material that is meant for kids to read.. and learn... That is retarded... lol but so is chronicals of narinia, which is also supposed to be a bed time story... What ever happened to the books that taught their children something about life... and how it works.. .Like "Animal Farm" or "the Silver Sword" or "The Count of Monte Cristo" or "I am the Cheese"... All of those were great books.. each with something that you could take from and apply to life....or learn about life...
I dont want my kids thinking that witches and warlocks is school work... I want them to actually enjoy it when they read about warlocks and fantasy and the such...... and take it for the fantasy aspect ... not associate it with school...
Books like Harry Potter etc are great for making kids love reading. If you only feed kids with boring and dry material, the only think you achieve is drop outs. Reading books is one of the greatest pleasures you can have. And one of the greatest educational values that exist. Exellent brain training. And every books can teach you something in one way or another. If it is the write political ideas, moral story and so on, doesn't matter, it's always of value to the person reading it. It's of immense value to a person if they get diverse ideas and opinions, not only the "correct" way to think. A kid should be teached different stories, theories, ideas and views. It should NOT be limited to a certain idea, or view.
Although I don't think Harry Potter should be main subject. For the main subject you should still have, you know, the classics that schools have always teached. We had "Of mice and men" in English etc. But you should have books like Harry Potter in the school library, so that the kids can read something "fun" if they desire it. I remember back when I was in school. We used to have these "reading projects". All in the class wen't to the library and found a book, wich we where supposed to read over a certain period of time. Outside the standard school hours.
Every good thing has people who hate it. Notice that she makes sure to tell everybody she is a Christian so she can get support from the mothers we all know and hate.
All in all banning books is stupid and just shows a serious insecurity about the intelligence of students. When books are banned on religious grounds that insecurity is worse. To be that scared and insecure in your beliefs that you would want to remove anything (books, movies, music, etc) that "goes against" said belief is as bad and damaging as the supposed subversive material and shows how thin that person's faith is.
You can't pick and choose, realistically, when you wave the proverbial "ban-stick" around. Ban books like Harry Potter and you might as well ban most literature or religious text. The christian bible has witches in it and glorifies violence in certain passages. It can be found in libraries all over the world. Shakespeare had witches and was very violent. Look at the 'Classics' like the Illiad. Not only has magic and violence, but gods and goddesses walk around that aren't apart of any current recognised religion. (as far as the US govt. is concerned at least.) These are taught in schools. Is it just the fact that HP happens to be a lower reading level make it more subversive? Ban one book you might as well ban them all.
___________~____________ Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Originally posted by reavo I don't even know where to begin.
First off, you're half right. He was concerned about the government meddling in religious activities. That was one of the reasons he spoke of a wall of seperation. Reference the Danbury Baptist Association letter. And that will back up your conclusion.
Aye.
However, Jefferson was also concerned about the church influencing government. He wasn't just a one show guy. He was very intellectual and had wonderful foresight.
His fear was based upon the clergy, especially the catholic church, having a certain amount of dominance over the nations politics, now to what that entails, I can not say. But this I do know, that during his time, and many years afterwards, morals, even beliefs, had strong dominance over the legislation. Did you know that George Washington was once stopped and questioned for attending to presidential business on a sunday? Now the person, who was a member of a police force so to speak, did not know who he was, and that he was the president. But none-the-less, there were even laws back then that for the most part, forced people to take a day of rest on Sunday.
I mean, I personally don't even believe in that. Especially considering Christ' take on the sabbath, but none-the-less, that was how religious they were. -------------------------------------------------------- ---"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." (Letter to H. Spafford, 1814).
---"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man." (Letter to J. Moor, 1800). --------------------------------------------------------
And I do fathom the influence of christianity on the nations people back then. However, I am also able to fathom the idea that the founding fathers were very smart. Smart enough to know that religion couldn't be an influence on the type of government they were wanting to build.
If that was indeed their motives, then they apparantly failed miserably. As shown by the monuments to Judeo-Christian beliefs that still stand in the Supreme Court building. The fact that many a state would REQUIRE a man to be of a certain belief(Christian, mainly protestant) to even run for political office in that state.
They were also highly influenced by the new philosophy of reason. One that didn't mix too well with the religious leaders of their time.
The government and religion have to be seperate for liberty and freedom to be practiced in our country.
John Adams didn't seem to think so: "We have no government armed in power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other. "
So to call this a 'christian nation' is, in my opinion, belittling the ideas of liberty and freedom that this country was built upon. A christian nation is not one that can practice liberty and freedom. It's impossible for true christians to adhere to those beliefs. Look at what this lady is trying to do to books!
Your statement is distorted, as is your view. When you think Christian nation, you think book burnings of Harry Potter, when that is hardly the case. A Christian nation is not where every single inhabitant is a Christian, or believes in the divine power of Christ, but rather what this nation was. A conglomerate of states who had laws, (although differing from state to state, because we were suppose to be a federation) that were strongly, if not directly based upon Christendom.
And your statement seems to say that just because our legislation has similarities to some of the christian values is reason enough to conclude that we can be called a christian nation.
NOW in the nation it's only similarities. But man, if you don't believe me. Look it up. Trust me, it's out there; the states were like that. Now the federal government wasn't like that, because the federal government wasn't the way it is now.! The states had the power to make their laws, the federal government could not dictate to the states how they should be run. There was a certain amount of checks & balances in place to keep everything orderly, but it is not ANYTHING like it is now.
Well, I'm not a christian and I hold a lot of the same moral values christians hold too. But that doesn't make me a christian.
Of course not. But you've obviously been influenced by traditional Christian beliefs.
There is a lot of legislation in this country that goes opposite what the Bible teaches. So does that not negate the 'christian nation' idea?
Ok, let me just state one thing to clear this up. I am not saying that we are now a Christian nation, far from it. We're more akin to Rome.
Although out of curiosity, what legislation are you thinking of? I do know it's out there, although I would like to hear what you in particular are thinking of.
I also know that Thomas Jefferson was a deist. And believed that our relationship with God should be a personal and unique relationship.
Of course, he made that clear throughout his writings. Although I'm not sure if he was a complete deist. I do know he had a extreme admiration for Christ and his teachings, and he also enjoyed the Gospels quite a bit. I think he was leaning more towards Christianity than you think. Although at the same time, I don't think you could consider him a Christian.
I am 99.9% sure that he would think Harry Potter books are A-OK to read.
Most people do. Most Christians do. I do. Well, I do except the fact that Harry Potter just doesn't have the depth or in my opinion, enjoyability that alot of classics do. You have your classic fantasy like Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia. But even alot of non-fantasy such as the books by Alexandre Dumas: The Count of Monte Cristo, the Man in the Iron Mask. I personally enjoy the movies of Harry Potter, but I just don't think the books have the real depth I'm looking for.
Thanks for the response!
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Wow, imagine that, the/a church trying to silence something they do not agree with.
Who would have thought we would see the day?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not that deep in the sense that it uses very little, if any, 'real' witchcraft. However what the author has created is very deep, but the closest it comes to witchcraft of old is a few faux lating phrases (and the obvious black cloaks/occasional pointed hat).
As to the actual topic, is anyone honestly surprised? this kind of thing has happened on a small scale ever since the books became popular. I'm not american though, so I don't know much about their experiences, but I know some (if not most) catholic schools here ban the series ( as well as others like the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy ).
Originally posted by Umbrood Wow, imagine that, the/a church trying to silence something they do not agree with. Who would have thought we would see the day?
Yeah man...
How about the Arch Bishop of Canturbury using his Easter Address to renounce the newly discovered "gospel of Judas" and books like "The Davinci Code" as they "undermine" traditional christian values. His statement was that "People shouldnt let their imaginations run wild"
I thought that was a pre-requisite for belief
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by Laserwolf "Mallory said she has been contacted by other Christian parents who were concerned about the content of the books. On her complaint form, she suggested they be replaced by C.S. Lewis’s “Chronicles of Narnia” series or Tim LaHaye’s “Left Behind: the Kids” series. She admitted that she has not read the book series partially because “they’re really very long and I have four kids.” “I’ve put a lot of work into what I’ve studied and read. I think it would be hypocritical for me to read all the books, honestly. I don’t agree with what’s in them. I don’t have to read an entire pornographic magazine to know it’s obscene,” Mallory said."
OMG what is she talking about? She doesn't need to read a book to know that it is crap? What is she a clairvoyant?
Basically I can say the same about her using the same method: "Oh yes you are stupid, no need to talk to you, I know you are"........... What kind of mentality is this? This kind of thinking is what make people racist. Judging a book from it's cover is the same as judging a person for the color of his skin without get to know him. C'mon girl stop reading the bible 24 hours a day and get out more, the world is wonderful out there, it ain't as scary as you might think
Originally posted by Razorback How about the Arch Bishop of Canturbury using his Easter Address to renounce the newly discovered "gospel of Judas" and books like "The Davinci Code" as they "undermine" traditional christian values. His statement was that "People shouldnt let their imaginations run wild" I thought that was a pre-requisite for belief
Exactly, does it not feel good to know that there are people out there intelligent and wise enough to be able to judge what we can and can not read, and are able to make that decision for us?
I get a warm glowy feeling just thinking about it.
And that feeling is murderous rage and blind fury.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a different siteI discovered this guy claiming to be god (but only level 2) who gives the best definition of faith I've seen in a long time. LOL
"If you think I'm out of my mind and delusional and need mental help....I'm no more delusional than the over 1000 denominations who think they know how everything spiritual works, and even that heaven exists after death - all without proof! Delusional means "belief without proof", called faith in the spiritual realm and dogma in the religious realm. We're all delusional! Some will even threaten to kill others over their beliefs. Many if not most wars (what's going on in Israel) are centered around religious beliefs and intolerance. I'm not harming anyone, so you need to be tolerant of my beliefs/delusions, just like I'm tolerant of yours." - Chris Roller
Only slightly off topic... heh.
___________~____________ Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Unfortunatley i live locally where this story is happening.
All i can say is this is the same type of "christian" that will take a kids holiday like halloween and twist it to suit their own purposes.
You know what im talking about,the local church makes a "haunted house" based on the evils of NOT being a christian.Premarital sex leading to abortion etc etc.
Now we have this nutbag in Gwinett attempting to force her point of view on everyone else and get CHILDREN'S book banned.If she had just left it alone it would have been a nonissue altogether.
You know what kills me about this?
She is probably typically middle class.Lets say husband plays golf every weekend,200 to 400k type of house,doesnt work cause hubby is a sales exec and owns a Mercedes mclass or a land rover.Yet for all the things they have or do they send their kids to a PUBLIC/GOVT school.
Lets call it what it is:BHI-Bored Housewife Itis.
How much you want to bet she has a ultrasuccesful sister that happens to be a hardcore Wiccan and she just cant stand it?
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Originally posted by Puoltry Unfortunatley i live locally where this story is happening.
She is probably typically middle class.Lets say husband plays golf every weekend,200 to 400k type of house,doesnt work cause hubby is a sales exec and owns a Mercedes mclass or a land rover.Yet for all the things they have or do they send their kids to a PUBLIC/GOVT school.
Lets call it what it is:BHI-Bored Housewife Itis.
How much you want to bet she has a ultrasuccesful sister that happens to be a hardcore Wiccan and she just cant stand it?
I agree with what you are saying entirely, but a question. Is 200k-400k really middle class and/or common there? 70k-110k is considered average middle class here! o.o The average house owner here (according to the state of the state 2005) was about 55k-95k /year, that is the modal average. We do have neighborhoods of 2mil+ homes too, but rare as heck.
Comments
Wouldn't it be better to encourage kids to read something they want to rather than shoving Shakespeare or Charles Dickens down their throats. At least they won't fall asleep. You know they are going to crib off the internet for the exams anyway.
No annoying animated GIF here!
First off, you're half right. He was concerned about the government meddling in religious activities. That was one of the reasons he spoke of a wall of seperation. Reference the Danbury Baptist Association letter. And that will back up your conclusion.
However, Jefferson was also concerned about the church influencing government. He wasn't just a one show guy. He was very intellectual and had wonderful foresight.
--------------------------------------------------------
---"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.
He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return
for protection to his own." (Letter to H. Spafford, 1814).
---"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into
the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the
civil and religious rights of man." (Letter to J. Moor, 1800).
--------------------------------------------------------
And I do fathom the influence of christianity on the nations people back then. However, I am also able to fathom the idea that the founding fathers were very smart. Smart enough to know that religion couldn't be an influence on the type of government they were wanting to build. They were also highly influenced by the new philosophy of reason. One that didn't mix too well with the religious leaders of their time.
The government and religion have to be seperate for liberty and freedom to be practiced in our country. So to call this a 'christian nation' is, in my opinion, belittling the ideas of liberty and freedom that this country was built upon. A christian nation is not one that can practice liberty and freedom. It's impossible for true christians to adhere to those beliefs. Look at what this lady is trying to do to books!
And your statement seems to say that just because our legislation has similarities to some of the christian values is reason enough to conclude that we can be called a christian nation. Well, I'm not a christian and I hold a lot of the same moral values christians hold too. But that doesn't make me a christian. There is a lot of legislation in this country that goes opposite what the Bible teaches. So does that not negate the 'christian nation' idea?
I also know that Thomas Jefferson was a deist. And believed that our relationship with God should be a personal and unique relationship. I am 99.9% sure that he would think Harry Potter books are A-OK to read.
Thanks for the response!
You do know Jefferson wasn't a christian don't you? He was a unitarian. Part of the reason for the seperation of church and state and his speach about doing it for the good of religions is because most of the "founding fathers" were quaker, unitarian, or christian in name only. He feared that the christain majority (is was for the general populas) would destroy the freedoms of the free thinkers which were building the country, much like the post reniassance[sp?] in europe.
Yes the seperation was there to protect his religion, but from christians. If you ever goto Boston area on the tours directly across the street from Harvard in Cambridge is the Unitarian graveyard where parts of his family are buried, guess why.
Yes! Yes!
Thanks for getting my back. lol.
I didn't read your response until after I made mine.
I dont want my kids thinking that witches and warlocks is school work... I want them to actually enjoy it when they read about warlocks and fantasy and the such...... and take it for the fantasy aspect ... not associate it with school...
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
The "Christian values" and laws are often what are called "natural laws" and although are listed in teh Bible they are common to most religions and societies. Things like not murdering and stealing etc. I have no issue with Christians, until they claim these as unique to them, because they just are not. They are shared beliefs and values, not exclusive to Christianity. In fact most predate Christianity by a rather large margin.
No one can claim murdering being bad as exclusive to them. And until the US accepts absolution and confession as freeing you of all crimes I don't really think we should be calling it a Christian nation. The majority of the population may be Christian (changes regularily, but is often the largest group at any given time), but that doesn't make it a Christian nation. Even if the specific people elected into office are Christian until they pass laws exclusive to Christianity it is not a Christian nation.
Under that logic, we should remove every single subject except for the 3 r's, reading, riting and rythmithic. Last i checked encouraging the growth of creatity and imagination are a good thing. Almost every single profession you can think of benefits incredibly from people who are very imaginative and creative. Hhow many professions where a lack of imagination and creativity is a good thing?
What you are really saying is they should only teach subjects that limits childrens minds to one ideology or rather theology, thats called brainwashing. Education is learning about everything, to give someone the widest range of mental knowledge/tools to comprehend the world around them and make better decisions because of it.
As for them enjoying it, you are again making vast assumptions. Who says they wouldnt enjoy it, you? Well contrary to your belief, thats hardly a proven commodity.
Although I don't think Harry Potter should be main subject. For the main subject you should still have, you know, the classics that schools have always teached. We had "Of mice and men" in English etc. But you should have books like Harry Potter in the school library, so that the kids can read something "fun" if they desire it. I remember back when I was in school. We used to have these "reading projects". All in the class wen't to the library and found a book, wich we where supposed to read over a certain period of time. Outside the standard school hours.
Every good thing has people who hate it.
Notice that she makes sure to tell everybody she is a Christian so she can get support from the mothers we all know and hate.
Neptus - FFXI - Pandemonium
Neptus - WoW - Detheroc
All in all banning books is stupid and just shows a serious insecurity about the intelligence of students. When books are banned on religious grounds that insecurity is worse. To be that scared and insecure in your beliefs that you would want to remove anything (books, movies, music, etc) that "goes against" said belief is as bad and damaging as the supposed subversive material and shows how thin that person's faith is.
You can't pick and choose, realistically, when you wave the proverbial "ban-stick" around. Ban books like Harry Potter and you might as well ban most literature or religious text. The christian bible has witches in it and glorifies violence in certain passages. It can be found in libraries all over the world. Shakespeare had witches and was very violent. Look at the 'Classics' like the Illiad. Not only has magic and violence, but gods and goddesses walk around that aren't apart of any current recognised religion. (as far as the US govt. is concerned at least.) These are taught in schools. Is it just the fact that HP happens to be a lower reading level make it more subversive? Ban one book you might as well ban them all.
___________~____________
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Wow, imagine that, the/a church trying to silence something they do not agree with.
Who would have thought we would see the day?
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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As to the actual topic, is anyone honestly surprised? this kind of thing has happened on a small scale ever since the books became popular. I'm not american though, so I don't know much about their experiences, but I know some (if not most) catholic schools here ban the series ( as well as others like the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy ).
Yeah man...
How about the Arch Bishop of Canturbury using his Easter Address to renounce the newly discovered "gospel of Judas" and books like "The Davinci Code" as they "undermine" traditional christian values. His statement was that "People shouldnt let their imaginations run wild"
I thought that was a pre-requisite for belief
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
She doesn't need to read a book to know that it is crap?
What is she a clairvoyant?
Basically I can say the same about her using the same method: "Oh yes you are stupid, no need to talk to you, I know you are"...........
What kind of mentality is this? This kind of thinking is what make people racist. Judging a book from it's cover is the same as judging a person for the color of his skin without get to know him.
C'mon girl stop reading the bible 24 hours a day and get out more, the world is wonderful out there, it ain't as scary as you might think
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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On a different siteI discovered this guy claiming to be god (but only level 2) who gives the best definition of faith I've seen in a long time. LOL
"If you think I'm out of my mind and delusional and need mental help....I'm no more delusional than the over 1000 denominations who think they know how everything spiritual works, and even that heaven exists after death - all without proof! Delusional means "belief without proof", called faith in the spiritual realm and dogma in the religious realm. We're all delusional! Some will even threaten to kill others over their beliefs. Many if not most wars (what's going on in Israel) are centered around religious beliefs and intolerance. I'm not harming anyone, so you need to be tolerant of my beliefs/delusions, just like I'm tolerant of yours." - Chris Roller
Only slightly off topic... heh.
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Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Unfortunatley i live locally where this story is happening.
All i can say is this is the same type of "christian" that will take a kids holiday like halloween and twist it to suit their own purposes.
You know what im talking about,the local church makes a "haunted house" based on the evils of NOT being a christian.Premarital sex leading to abortion etc etc.
Now we have this nutbag in Gwinett attempting to force her point of view on everyone else and get CHILDREN'S book banned.If she had just left it alone it would have been a nonissue altogether.
You know what kills me about this?
She is probably typically middle class.Lets say husband plays golf every weekend,200 to 400k type of house,doesnt work cause hubby is a sales exec and owns a Mercedes mclass or a land rover.Yet for all the things they have or do they send their kids to a PUBLIC/GOVT school.
Lets call it what it is:BHI-Bored Housewife Itis.
How much you want to bet she has a ultrasuccesful sister that happens to be a hardcore Wiccan and she just cant stand it?
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)