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Unbelievable
Crash86
Member Posts: 125
Turbine does what I consider to be a prudent thing and opens a new board for trial members. This keeps folks from creating new trial accounts just to mess with the 'regulars' on the General Discussion forum.
So what happens?
The regulars on the General Discussion forums come to the Trial Member forums and begin bashing the new players who can't finish the barroom newbie quests.
One Founder actually created a gimped character and completed the newb quests, then bragged about how easy it was in one forum. How, exactly, is something like "Lookie what I can do with a gimped sorcerer, you must be a moron" supposed to help a new player who's obviously frustrated? 
The community in DDO will kill the game faster than anything Turbine could do to it.
Comments
When I beta tested the game , i met almost no D&D players , just bunch of WoW bored kids.
Being a horrible game , and now with such horrid community - i bet DDO will be closing in about two months....
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Thank you for posting that. I was going to try the free trial, but after reading your post I have decided not to even bother with it.
To me the community of a game is all important. If thats the way they are I guess I'll pass.
Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.
QFT. I feel myself forced to compare ddo to nwn. NWN is free, supports creation of user-made content, allows for groups of friends to multi-play, and hence... roleplay big time. I have friend into it, and he's probably playing more than most MMOers do.... So with DDO, you pay 15/month for dev-only content (means the rate of content production will always be less than the rate of player consumption), with dev-enforced role-playing? hmmm..... On these nwn role-playing servers, if you don't role-play, you are kicked off. period.
I thought role-playing D&D ruleset was supposed to be the whole point of ddo?
Thank you for posting that. I was going to try the free trial, but after reading your post I have decided not to even bother with it.
To me the community of a game is all important. If thats the way they are I guess I'll pass.
You're welcome.
I wanted very much to like the game when it was first announced, but I learned very quickly between beta, 2 stress tests, and Headstart that the community was more elitist than anything I'd ever seen in my 6 years of EQ.
And not just the subset of players who post on the forums, either. When you can find someone in game, they either:
When I, as the rogue, am being told to "Look for traps here" by the tank becasue he's been through the instance enough times to know here the trap is, it doesn't do much for me. The "Wow, that's cool!" factor goes out the window.
Forget about roleplay. It doesn't exist in DDO. It's as if the players are junkies, and they only get their hit if they click 'Recall'. They want to do it as soon as they can, so that they can turn right around and go do it again.
Another example is voicechat. On the surface, a built in voicechat client seems like a great idea. Until players start actively excluding other players if they don't have it. There were threads upon threads about this on the DDO forums. Players accepting group invites, only to be removed when the leader found out that they didn't have access to voicechat. More elitism. A "play my way, or play somewhere else" attitude doesn't do much to create a sense of community.
The community in this game reminds me of the raptors in the movie 'Pitch Black'. If there's no one else to feed on, they'll start killing themselves. After the initial wave of people who bought he game at release left, there was no one around for the rabid fanboys to flame, so they started in on each other.
With the new trial, the DDO fanboys have some fresh meat. After the new trial folks tire of the game and/or the community, the regulars will go back to feasting on themselves.
Well that is unforunate a few kids get on and start bashing the trail players on the forums. However i don't think that reflects the entire community. I havent expereinced anything out of the ordinary in my time on DDO. Sure there are bad apples, but after 7 years in MMO's, there are always bad apples. If you expect to get into an MMO, and have everyone be helpful and friendly towards you, i suggest you don't play MMO's.
Behold exactly the type of attitude I'm trying to talk about.
You know nothing about my gaming history, yet you "suggest" I play your way or not at all. Classic.
I've played just about all of the MMOs out there with the exception of the Lineage games and Auto Assault, and I've never run into any community as bad as the DDO community. The players of DDO stand in stark compariason to, say, the AO community.
AO is a small community, just like DDO. But I never once ran it to the kind of garbage players on Rubi-Ka as I've experienced in Stormreach. AO players were always helpful (almost to a fault), and even the open PvP folks made it clear that they were RPing and either congratulated you on the victory or gave you a "Well played" when you lost during PvP.
YMMV, of course. By my mileage (and I have been around the block a few times) is what I have posted here. And what the above quoted player has illustrated so well.
Behold exactly the type of attitude I'm trying to talk about.
You know nothing about my gaming history, yet you "suggest" I play your way or not at all. Classic.
I've played just about all of the MMOs out there with the exception of the Lineage games and Auto Assault, and I've never run into any community as bad as the DDO community. The players of DDO stand in stark compariason to, say, the AO community.
AO is a small community, just like DDO. But I never once ran it to the kind of garbage players on Rubi-Ka as I've experienced in Stormreach. AO players were always helpful (almost to a fault), and even the open PvP folks made it clear that they were RPing and either congratulated you on the victory or gave you a "Well played" when you lost during PvP.
YMMV, of course. By my mileage (and I have been around the block a few times) is what I have posted here. And what the above quoted player has illustrated so well.
Ahh, your first post now makes sense to me. Damn bro, nobody is telling you how to play or not to play, all i was saying was that in EVERY MMO there are bad people, period. If you happen to play AO and enjoyed that community, great, more power to you. You said DDO has the worst community you have experienced. Fine. Thats your opinion, and your entitled to it, just like i am entitled to tell you i have not had the same problems you seem to be talking about.
Behold exactly the type of attitude I'm trying to talk about.
You know nothing about my gaming history, yet you "suggest" I play your way or not at all. Classic.
I've played just about all of the MMOs out there with the exception of the Lineage games and Auto Assault, and I've never run into any community as bad as the DDO community. The players of DDO stand in stark compariason to, say, the AO community.
AO is a small community, just like DDO. But I never once ran it to the kind of garbage players on Rubi-Ka as I've experienced in Stormreach. AO players were always helpful (almost to a fault), and even the open PvP folks made it clear that they were RPing and either congratulated you on the victory or gave you a "Well played" when you lost during PvP.
YMMV, of course. By my mileage (and I have been around the block a few times) is what I have posted here. And what the above quoted player has illustrated so well.
Ahh, your first post now makes sense to me. Damn bro, nobody is telling you how to play or not to play, all i was saying was that in EVERY MMO there are bad people, period. If you happen to play AO and enjoyed that community, great, more power to you. You said DDO has the worst community you have experienced. Fine. Thats your opinion, and your entitled to it, just like i am entitled to tell you i have not had the same problems you seem to be talking about.
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and encouraged to post it (for my 2 copper, anyway). I personally hate to argue, but I enjoy a good, healthy debate. Arguing on a forum is like running in a donkey race ... even if you're the winner, you're still a jackass.
Had you not decided to end your first post the way you ended it, all would've been good.
I have absolutely no problem with people disagreeing with me. I've been married for almost 20 years and have two kids ... I'm pretty used to it. But there's no reason or excuse for ending a "I disagree with you" post with the "If you don't like it, leave" tagline.
And that's what the DDO folks do constantly. When people say anything about what they don't like about the game, the answers from the regulars fall in to one of these stock responses:
People can like different things. If they didn't, the world would be a pretty dull place. It's the way one chooses to express it that makes the difference.
DDO seems to attract the type of player who feels the need to end a point with an insult or put-down. Just like you did in your first post.
If you take away that last jab, your initial post looks like this:
That I can definitely agree with. There, we have discourse. Why, exactly, did you feel the need to add the last sentence to your initial post? Why say, "If you expect to get into an MMO, and have everyone be helpful and friendly towards you, i suggest you don't play MMO's."
I'm not being a smartass here. I'm seriously interested in knowing. It might help me to understand the DDO player. Because nearly everyone I came across in the months I beta-ed, stress-tested, and Headstarted the game couldn't end a debate with trying to tack on a flame.
The only people who didn't react like that were the friends I played the game with. None of us are playing any longer ... we all got tired of the contention. Both on the boards and the servers.
That I can definitely agree with. There, we have discourse. Why, exactly, did you feel the need to add the last sentence to your initial post? Why say, "If you expect to get into an MMO, and have everyone be helpful and friendly towards you, i suggest you don't play MMO's."
I'm not being a smartass here. I'm seriously interested in knowing. It might help me to understand the DDO player. Because nearly everyone I came across in the months I beta-ed, stress-tested, and Headstarted the game couldn't end a debate with trying to tack on a flame.
The only people who didn't react like that were the friends I played the game with. None of us are playing any longer ... we all got tired of the contention. Both on the boards and the servers.
The point of the last line in my first post was not an attack, or some smug DDO Elitest attitude towards others. It was a simple statement that was just meant to point out the uselessness of looking for an MMO without bad apples. Thats like looking for an honest politician.
If your using my first post as an example of the problems you had with the DDO community, then i must say you are taking things way to personal and seriously, particularly on forum posts. With the amount of MMO experience you have had, you should know there are people out there that take things wrong and end up blowing things said way out of context. Also people on forum's always tend towards the negitave. Human nature i guess to focus on the bad and ignore the good.
As far as a debate, there really isnt one here, simple because i am not going to defend the DDO community. Thats not why i posted, my only point is the post you are refering too, i could go out and find the same things on any other MMO board.
Hello all!
Before I start, I must state a few facts. I like DDO, I played, betad, stress-tested on european servers, though I have experience on us servers as well, due to a friend living there. I will not flame, won't give you the elitist things to say, I will only argue, and do that in perspective.
What follows is not bragging, just facts: In beta i was leader of one of the biggest guilds on Lyrandar, and getting in was hard, some would say elitist, though I'll later explain my opinion about elitism. First off I demanded mature behaviour, and for everyone's conveniance text chat, didn't want to spoil myself by voice chatting. All of the guild members were grown up people, mostly above 26, least for me, I am 20. Now why would I want to play with older people, that's simple: I like maturity, and what I have experienced in other MMO's disturbed me, 11 yrs old kids with absolutely no respect for the casual player/older player. Kept running in to the duelists, who constantly wanted to prove they can beat me 1v1, and they prolly would have, no doubt. Players like us finally found a remedy, DDO. No pvp, complex character creation/evolution, a well crafted, time-proven core system, party-oriented gameplay, tactical combat, really unique characters. What happened later on was, that smart ass wow and eq fanboi came flaming us, constantly trying to prove that this is neither an mmo, neither d&d, telling us instancing is lame etc....You can find this on these forums, even I have posted a few times, but gave up, because the majority of MMO players were afraid of the changes brought by this game.
After months of such flaming what kind of responce did you expect from those who play DDO? You would expect them to be totally friendly in return? I understand much of how they acted. The situation is not really so on european servers, as long as I played on them I met only good-intentioned people, mature people, with mature and cynical sence of humor...humor harnessed in real life, hardly accepted by the hardcore MMO player. We are elitist in the point of view that we expect the best from ourselves, and expect others to do the same. I by such definition am elitist, BUT I never requiered others to master 3.5 ruleset from the get go, but I did expect them to learn the game as soon as they could, if they wished to play with me and my guild. I told them this fair and square, no discrimination, no flaming, they understood, and in most cases turned out to be good players indeed.
Recall button was not the goal, taking on harder and harder challenges was the goal. We finished lv 10 dungeons with only one lv 7 in the party (others were less), we felt proud, because we had GREAT teamwork...yes from such a point of view we were elitist.
I was the highest level bard on the server, and private messages kept pouring on how others should build their bard, I didn't refuse to help them, not once, still I consider myself elitist. You bring elitism a bad name, what you should judge is immature, impatient highly arrogant behaviour. This behaviour is not usually present in grown up people, this behaviour is present in most teens playing MMOs.
Final and most important statement: do not judge the comunity, look at older forum posts about the game, you will se this hostility was not started by the DDO community, it was started against them, and It's understandable, that not all of them handled the situation as best they could have. Saying if you don't like it, leave it, is the last resort, it's them saying we wish argue no more, just let us play the game in peace.
P.S. Don't want flaming out of this, want opinions...these days saying ur a DDO fan means instant flaming on many forums...kids...
I agree completely about the community. The worst bunch of fanboys I've ever seen in a game forum. Honestly, I felt more welcome on the WoW boards, and everyone likes to hate on BNet kids.
Its completely accurate that you dare not post any negative feedback on the forums because the fanboys there are not just mean and angry, they are positively rabid!.
I've seen some long, thought out, completely rational critiques of the game, suggestions and improvements on the boards by intelligent people. What is the response? The usual fanboys, and if you've been to the boards, you know their names, attack with brilliant posts like:
"CIHYS?"
"Then leave, stop posting"
"Why don't you STFU?"
"..Door hit you.."
Or even better, they will simply scan the post for any grammar error, no matter how small to say things like:
"Maybe you should be in school learning to spell instead!"
"what? Don't know how to use a comma genius??"
Some like to spend the time going through your post history to try and fling something back at you.
"Just look at his post history, all he does is complain"
"He's just a troll, he said their should be more dungeons on X date"
My Point? Just one more really great reason to avoid this game. Hell, one of the developers was flaming people in a recent post about powerleveling! They had to remove it because he made Turbine look so bad! Of course those (usual) fanboys almost wet themselves with glee to have a dev flinging trash along with them.
Unless you are kissing butt royally, do not expect to get even the most common curtesy from the DDO boards.
BTW, I know a guy who has made level 8 in 4 days playing the 7-day trial. But don't bring up the lack of content on the boards, you will be flamed. Bad.
Read no further than this:
http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29749
Starting about the 5th post down, the true DDO community starts to come out.
Or this one:
http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29058
The DDO community comes down hard on someone who comments that the game isn't very much like PnP D&D. As soon as the OP is attacked (3rd post in the thread), he fights back. And away we go ... yet another flamewar.
If a newbie wants help, it's pretty obvious that the regular posters on the forums don't care to be the ones to provide it. They can't be bothered.
Unless, of course, something negative is posted. Then they're all over it.
Any bets on how long it takes those fanboys to create accounts here just to come flame people for shedding light on their little witch hunt?
Now that the thread has been posted on the DDO boards, they will come a runnin' to be sure.
Pay attention to those threads, you'll soon see that there are a few who are the worst offenders. Some have dozens of posts a day, almost all are raging vitiol against anything seen as not being positive in every way.
They are already busy bashing the OP and showing their true colors.
I truely am curious, do you all really beleive the handful of posts you are quoting here really shows what the DDO comminuty is all about?
I didnt even bother looking at them because i already know pretty much what they will say. I have read posts like that 100 times before, on a half dozen OTHER mmo's. Come on guys, give me a break. If you hate DDO, fine, nobody is forcing you to buy or even play the free trial. If you think there are some bad seeds in the community, fine, name them if you like, trash them all you want, (which i find kind of hypocritical i might add) but quit pretending that the DDO community is so vastly different from any other MMO community out there. It isnt. We have the same amount of over the top fanboi's as any other game.
As far as the post by Solas, the Turbine Dev goes, he stuck his foot in his mouth, and then some. But again, you will find A**hole dev's on every game out there. It just goes with the territory.
Now where did i leave my fire extinguisher.
Hah! This the furthest from the truth in relation to a claim agasint a game and it's community.
I'm willing to bet the quoted person had been banned for some form of rudness and grief.
I enjoy my guild in DDO. I had played with several of them through random pick-up-groups. Actually played with them various members about 5-6 times before even procuring about joing their guild. The age ranges from 16-45 and it's one of the best communities I've been associated with in an online game.
In all fairness it's the WoW kiddies with 5 second attention spans that give MMO's a bad taste. Even then, I will say WoW has _A LOT_ more to offer in the sense of content then DDO does as of date.
I agree with the person who made this thread ddo is the worst comunaty iv ever been in Each and every one of rthem seam to think their higher than any one in the mmo comunety! they think their the top of the food chain !after trying the free trial im never going back to DDO !
You are confused.
I'm going to refrain from a truthful post regardless of your efforts to troll topics with the intention of inciting a riot.
Good ridance and I hope the best of your family.
Do what I have been doing for years in other games, bookmark the really annoying fanbois, give it 6 months and then go back and read their "I quit" posts, then enjoy reading lots of other fanbois flame them.
You are confused.
I'm going to refrain from a truthful post regardless of your efforts to troll topics with the intention of inciting a riot.
Good ridance and I hope the best of your family.
I don't have the first idea what you're trying to talk about.
However, I do "hope the best of your family", too.
Sometimes it feels like the dregs of humanity post on the official forums. For every decent or useful post, there are a dozen self-indulgent and completely obnoxious ones. It's no wonder the devs for any game have a hard time listening to the fan base--they make themselves so annoying that no one wants to hear them.
I just posted an EDITORIAL about how the devs need to pay a bit more attention to the competent and well-spoken people on the official forums so they can better make the game the players want. But I do see how all the idiots on the forums make that a really challenging proposition.
.: Shayalyn :.
PR & Community Relations
Ten Ton Hammer
You don't have to wait 6 months here. This sort of behavior started before Headstart was over when some of the fanboy types realized that the beta testing they did was for naught and the game was going out broken. Fanboy's quit, and other fanboys ripped them to shreds.
There's also a post on the main board where the Founders were asked if they were staying after their free month was up. It had been buried, but it seems to have been resurrected. There are several recent posts in it where people who said the first month that they were staying are responding now saying that they're quitting.
The mentality I don't understand is the "I picked up CoV to pass the time bewteen updates" mentality of a lot of the DDO folks who say they are staying. If the game has so little content that you have to play a second game while you wait for the devs to make up content, the game is broken. Can you imagine someone picking up EQ2 while they were waiting for Blizzard to produce content for WoW?