Adult content? Your thoughts maybe...

Ridetsu

It has been a recent thought of mine... the content of games is usually very child friendly. Now, let's take a moment to consider the average age of the gamer... which is like, late twenties.. at least that is what i thought i read...
At any rate... i am wondering what your standpoint on this issue is? If a game is rated AO for sexual themes, violence, and bad language, do you think it is anything different? Every game has some ammount of sexual content - be it just things that look physically appealing, to characters being outright skanky. If an MMO has sexual content in it; even if it doesn't display it (merely suggests to it happening), what would your feelings be towards this?
I realise some people enjoy the wholesome nature of killing things, and doing general MMO stufff without the sexual nature of things wigling its way into their psyche.

With more and more teenaged to adult players logging into the MMORPG scene, don't you think it is time to abandon this strict code of non-sexuality (aside from looks of a character), and maybe add in a bit of fan-service, or even themes that an adult can appreciate? Now, i'm not talking full on sex scenes, and constant sexual tension - but just things that would involve sexuality and the like... Please explain your reasoning behind this as well. Thank you muchly.

devils_hymn

good idea im all for it. nice pic(laviathan from ff8 right?)

devils_hymn

even if im 13 and ive been playing mmos since i was about 8 and muds since i was like 5 and wolfenstien(no relation but it still was awsome) since i was 3 i beat wolfenstien original at the age of three how awsome is that

Ridetsu

erk, consolidate your posts in one.. there's an edit button to the upper right hand of your dialogue box.

Erm, what is your point behind the statement of ages? you really didn't say anything other than your credits..
what i think you might be asking is: what about me, a person who is below the adult age limit?"


Get your mommy or daddy's permission? i mean, to an 8 year old, i would openly say hell no and smack any parent if they did... but at the age of 12 i had seen my fait share of pr0n, so, it wasn't anything new to me... just as long as a parent could put it into context for their child, then yeah, go ahead and play at thirteen.

Anyone can beat wolfenstein at 3 with godmode on. And considering the human consious doesn't really begin till about 5 to 6, i think you are blowing a bit of smoke up someone's tailpipe.

Riotgirl

You view "adult content" solely through a sexual prism, whereas I view such content as providing storylines, plot narrative and characters with compelling drama and emotion i.e. adult themes. Such content can be provided by graphics through artistic style in terms of both look and feel of a game.

In traditional MMORPG dynamics, sexuality is traditionally high fantasy - cosmetic only - because it has little effect on the main goal of the game: power - either through levelling, equipment or PvP.

I'm ambivalent of sexuality in games because it is often just a cheap marketing gimmick and is rarely implemented correctly. I much prefer sexual themes reflected in the plot through dialogue, whether through sexual or emotional tension tensions between characters [NPCs]. Otherwise, sexuality becomes little more than traditional high-fantasy wank fodder (think any pulp high fantasy novel cover - the reason why Brigiette Nielson was chosen to play 'Red Sonja').

MMORPGs that have sexual adult content are more often than not titles like Second Life that are little more than a glorified chat-room (with increased functionality) i.e. purely social. I'd like to see adult content portrayed by either providing a gritty realism (think 'Saving Private Ryan') or through psychological horror through the use of macabre graphics and setting to set the tone (thinking more White Wolf's 'Vampre: The Masquerade').

The main reason why adult content is heavily censored or removed through MMORPGs is not to fall foul of being given an 'adult rating' - thus not given prime retail space in gaming shops or Walmarts.

Regards,
Riotgirl

Ridetsu

Riotgirl - i am sorry if i stated what i said earlier wrong, but i completely agree with you.

Sexuality through plot is more what i meant than anything... it wouldn't be something you partake in, or your character does.. it would be something that happens in the story arc.
And ugh... i hate purely social games... i enjoy writing and all, but i can only take so much of humanity at one time...

Vyava

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Originally posted by Ridetsu
With more and more teenaged to adult players logging into the MMORPG scene, don't you think it is time to abandon this strict code of non-sexuality (aside from looks of a character), and maybe add in a bit of fan-service, or even themes that an adult can appreciate? Now, i'm not talking full on sex scenes, and constant sexual tension - but just things that would involve sexuality and the like... Please explain your reasoning behind this as well. Thank you muchly.

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I think you have the reversed. Traditionally the MMORPG market has been college age to about 30s-40s and since they started getting more attention with games like Runescape, FFXI and WoW more younger players are entering the market.

Even in games such as WoW there are a lot of "adult content" references that yopunger players just don't get. They may not be sexual or violence related, but there are quite a few political statements and such that really are adult material.

I don't think wanton violence and gratutious sexual references is adult at all really. Sure pointless action movies and all that are fun at times, but overall that is really ther domain of the pre-teen to teen market. I am all for some depressing storylines and unhappy endings, but I think overall the adult market craves content (such as storylines and group play) over the current trend of grinding and solo content.

Anofalye

Riotgirl is 100% right.

It could also leap from "sexuality", what about having a god in game saying he is uniquer and killing all other believers for the greater good of the world?    Such a theme would only fit for adults if you go past the initial wording and the devs better be ready to precise, underline, repeat, that anything vaguely similar to any known religion is purely coincidental (no known God grant flamestrike to use against heretics).    Even then I can't promise the Vatican wouldn't be filling a lawsuit, which would provide a lot of free publicity at least so it is not only bad if this happen.  The "coincidential" thingy should clearly be more coincidential closer to catholics then to muslims (beheading advertisement is definitely going to far, and they would), because I don't think the muslims as a whole are mature enough to react nicely, while the catholics should be.

And this is merely considering religion...

But I don't need explicitedly an adult MMO, I am perfectly at ease in a teen-driven MMO, as most gamers are never growing "teens" anyway.

Ridetsu

Both of you present very valid and good points.  I have noticed that politics, and thoughts of developers, show through their work. Being a literature student, i often read books for signifigance that apears beyond face value and the words on a page.

Its hard for me to put into words how i understand what you are both saying, but know that the point ahs gotten across to the sense that "Gratuitous nudity and bloody violence  give it a rating, but a truly adult themed game is one with underlying tones and, at most part, adult situations and themes that would tailor more towards pelasing an adult/"

hmmm, so no chibi MMORPG? hehehehe.

Vyava

Well WoW has lines directly out of both The Yellow Wallpaper (in a warlock quest) and A New England Nun (in a paladin quest). The references are definately adult content if you have ever read those pieces of literature.

Agricola1

Adult themes as in story arcs are a good idea and would add more depth. But it seems the fast food culture has taken control in many places, and children usualy cry the loudest or would be the first to abuse any sexual content if they could. These are the problems and also maturity doesn't always depend on age.

I remember ion SWG there was a lady that used to do a strip tease in the Mos Eisley cantina for money. It was tastefuly done (as tastefuly as possible anyway!) and all participants acted in an adult manner as you would in a real life strip bar (not that I've ever been to one...........honest!). However the flipside of the coin was the morons running around cities naked streaking about whilst swearing. The seemed to think that typing expletives to get past the filter whilst naked was being creative!

So no matter what happens some plonker is going to abuse it because it makes them feel clever, but for the rest of us it can be an extra part of the game adults can relax and enjoy.

hodge12

Sociolotron has sex, prostitution, and BDSM skills.

M1sf1t

While not in the same genre Fallout 1 and 2 had very adult themes in it's games. A mmorpg that is nitty gritty yet has a great storyline that is not all nice and pretty is something I would jump on in a heart beat if the gameplay mechanics are right. So a MMORPG with great gameplay and a great adult oriented world and storyline would be something I would enjoy be it high fantasy or sci-fi etc...

M1sf1t

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Originally posted by Vyava

Originally posted by Ridetsu
With more and more
teenaged to adult players logging into the MMORPG scene, don't you
think it is time to abandon this strict code of non-sexuality (aside
from looks of a character), and maybe add in a bit of fan-service, or
even themes that an adult can appreciate? Now, i'm not talking full on
sex scenes, and constant sexual tension - but just things that would
involve sexuality and the like... Please explain your reasoning behind
this as well. Thank you muchly.

I think you have the reversed. Traditionally the MMORPG market has
been college age to about 30s-40s and since they started getting more
attention with games like Runescape, FFXI and WoW more younger players
are entering the market.

Even in games such as WoW there are a lot of "adult content"
references that yopunger players just don't get. They may not be sexual
or violence related, but there are quite a few political statements and
such that really are adult material.

I don't think wanton violence and gratutious sexual references is
adult at all really. Sure pointless action movies and all that are fun
at times, but overall that is really ther domain of the pre-teen to
teen market. I am all for some depressing storylines and unhappy
endings, but I think overall the adult market craves content (such as
storylines and group play) over the current trend of grinding and solo
content.

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Yup MMORPGs have always had a older audience. The kiddies didn't start coming in big time untill WoW showed up on the scence. Though if a MMORPG is rated "M" it might curve the amount of kiddies flocking to it. It would be the parents fault if they let their kid play a game with a clearly marked and labeled "M" rating on the box. Let alone pay for the monthly fees.

JGib

Games need some Hardcore ****.

Briansho

There is some kinky stuff going on in Second Life if you look.

Want to see a donkey show??

nomadian

No, just don't see the point of it.

By the way there is an adult mmorpg coming out which is similar to what is being described. Really can't see it getting many subscribers.

DX_Intruder

god.. I read an article about second life explaining that there are actually "escorts" in second life that make money (in-game money and convert it to real money) by virtually cybering with other players.  Personally I believe this is disgusting and wrong and shouldn't really be even allowed in games..  this isn't really what the thread author was talking about (but second life was brought up so I had to mention my disgust)

I think some sexual themes are fine if the game already has a Mature rating.  Neocron has strip clubs with topless NPC girls dancing and NPC strippers, it's pretty funny actually.  The strippers are located in a place called Pepper Park (it's not a park, more of a district), and it just adds to the atmosphere.  With the red lighting and dark alleyways and numerous night clubs, it makes the district feel unclean and dangerous (which it is - pvp enabled)  --- its for the atmosphere, not for jerking off.  I think that kinda stuff is harmless as opposed to the trash going on in some social mmos.

Ridetsu

Hmmm, those are all very valid points, and i see a general consensus out there for what you all want.

The main reason i have asked about this, is becausethe game i am hopelessly creating is very adult in nature. No, no rampant sex scenes, no pixilated minigames, nothing like that.... just an overall adult oriented world...

I have always had a problem with children in games; so in all honesty, i don't wish to cater to them. They are the ones running around the place and doing weird stuff usually (from what i have noticed in MMO's i have played.)
That's not saying all kids are the same.. i met some pretty cool kids along the way... just a majority of them suck... as well as adults x.x;

MaeEye

The problem with releasing a game that is AO related and is a MMO is that your going to have massive sexual contents between each player.  There are more than likely going to be people upset and what not.  Plus, it's hard to have a decent MMO (fantasy/Sci-fi) when you have AO ratings (with sexuality) in it.  I don't want to see sex in my games.  That is waht porn is for. . .kind of how I don't want to see games in my porn.  I'm fine with the stuff we get with a 'M' rating, enough violence, extreme sexual content, and massive language. 

Plus, there are plenty of MMO's with a AO rating, and their geared towards "online dating" style.  It just won't work in a fantasy style game.

Aseenus

i said yes... but to a certain extent! as in it would be good coz less kids will play them and well im kinda sick of these immature communies on forums and profanity filters etc

Ridetsu

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Originally posted by MaeEye
The problem with releasing a game that is AO related and is a MMO is that your going to have massive sexual contents between each player.  There are more than likely going to be people upset and what not.  Plus, it's hard to have a decent MMO (fantasy/Sci-fi) when you have AO ratings (with sexuality) in it.  I don't want to see sex in my games.  That is waht porn is for. . .kind of how I don't want to see games in my porn.  I'm fine with the stuff we get with a 'M' rating, enough violence, extreme sexual content, and massive language. 

Plus, there are plenty of MMO's with a AO rating, and their geared towards "online dating" style.  It just won't work in a fantasy style game.

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A very good point... but when it comes to 'fan-service' -  is that something better left towards people who just play and like the game; or from the actual game itself?
And of course, i think we can all agree, that hardcore porn should be left out of MMO games... sure a little tease here and there as fanservice would be okay... but nothing like a hardcore romping or something along those lines...

Seelendieb

All I have to say:

Make love, not War;
Peace ...if you know what I mean.

Imho, you will not see more sexual content in a mmorpg produced by an US company, simply because they have a different culture in regards to Sex/Violence.

As I moved from Germany to the USA, I was shocked what they show on TV in regards to violence. The more arms and legs are getting riped off the better seems here to be the motive, but dare you, if you want to show a nude ass or breast, let alone the genitals.

It is really VERY  VERY interesting what different contents are getting censored in the USA and in Germany in the same movie.

Personally I am also shocked how far churches here go to convert a person, but this is a different story and by far more a disgusting one.

M1sf1t

I think some of you are confused with "social games" vs a MMORPG which has lore and content that covers the gambit of life's issues we see in the real world or which you might in encounter in extreme situations like a post-nuclear war world etc.. I think of it more of a game that is unfiltered and allows the devs freedom to include lore and content that hits hard and ask deep questions not covered in your "Collect 10 pixie dust bags and report back" MMORPGs. 

Ridetsu

for sure, Misfit.

Just... freedome to do as you please as a developer... if you want a nip-slip, then let it happen! lol. Either way, i just like creativity and freedom of expression... that's what art is all about.

mik6

if they added in sexual content in games there would be less players because of children ,and not being able to play the games, im not saying a bit of sexual content is bad but if the game were pay to play there would be lack of players not to mention maybe less money for the game.