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PvP - FFA or race based?
Jazia
Member Posts: 584
<p>Well which one is better in your opinion?
For example,
1. FFA (free for all)
In Lineage 2, anyone can kill everyone else. Players who play characters from all races form their own clans/alliances(the same clan can have elves, orcs, dwarves, humans etc.), and fight other clans/alliances because of the player driving politics. It changes all the time. A few months ago, two alliances could be working together against a common enemy, then a few months later they could be trying to slay each other because of some "server politics" created by players themselves. Big alliances raise and fall, history continue to change.
2. race based
In WOW, all races are divided into either Alliance or Horde. You can only fight with the players from the other side...forever.
In RFO, 3 races, nobody can fight their own race ever.
Which one do you like better?</p>
Comments
I'll go with Faction VS Faction. for me, it adds a lot more then pvp then Free for all. basicly in free for all, the only reason to PK someone is if you don't like them (Unless we are talking about an UO or AC:DT here, where the chance is big you lose items. this is not the case in Lineage 2, a player first needs an amount of PK's and even then there is only a small chance they drop someone) in Faction Vs Faction, there is a reason to pvp. your at war. you actually see people around you as your allies, sort of your ingame family. while in ffa pvp, everyone who is not in your guild is your enemy. imo, it brings the social state of the game down.
No, not everyone who isn't in my clan is my enemy at all.
You are dreamming.
There are hundreds if not thousands clans on each server. Clans form alliances. Every alliance is netural to most others, they only fight their enemies which won't be more than 1~3 alliances at the same time. Enemies change, so are allies.
C
because they think free for all = mindless kiling each other non stop lolololol....in fact they don't realize they are the ones doing mindless killing each(other race) other non stop for aboslutely no reason.
In Lineage2, None of the clan/alliance are making troubles for no reason, well beside the #1 top alliance maybe. Then again #1 changes all the time, when they piss too many others off, many other alliances will bandwagoning them and make them fall.
Free for all (guild based or such actually) has the potential to be much more balanced. Besides if anyone can join any faction then it eliminates the whining. Imagine if you never heard "The horde have better racials and shaman it is unfair" or "Alliance have and advantage in XXX battlegrounds" or "Hibernia get better AOE classes" etc etc etc.
But whenever people read free-for-all or even faction based independant of race/alignment people seem to think it will just be a gank fest, as if racial/alignment based isn't often...
No FFA pvp system will ever touch Dark Age of camelot Faction based pvp. period.
Sure its fun, all those "political" Alliance fights....IF your actually in one of those big alliances. and thats a problem Faction VS faction pvp doesn't have.
My /flex is an AoE stun.
Youre wrong about having a slight chance to drop an item as a PK'r in L2. Although the system was watered down so Red Players with a PK count of under 5 wont suffer a drop increase (a change I hated as an honourable assassin
Regarding the vote I went for FFA. With FFA you can still choose to make your clan/alliance faction based if thats your preference: the only limits are player imagination.
Nobody does random pk these days in L2 any more. There used to be a lot of random pkers who were about to quit(specially before Closed Beta and Open Beta ended), so they don't care anything before they quit.
There is almost NONE random pk now. It's all about clan/alliance wars. Yes people pk their enemies.
Exactly! I love how the game doesnt force our enemies upon us they evolve from player driven politics. We have enemy lines and enemy territory in L2, but the players draw those lines and claim the territory....ensuring running battles between the factions in an attempt to reclaim areas.
Im not talking about the fortnightly organised Castle Sieges either; these are 'open' areas claimed by alliances. How exactly is this different than RvR/FvF?
FFA definaltely has the best of both/all worlds.
The main problem with faction based games (ala WoW) is that a lot of times I wish I could kill the retard I have next to me and join the opposite group. It frustates me a lot not being able to do so, and because of this I do not play anymore games without FFA. Like posted above FFA doesn't mean free loot, it means that you choose who you play with and against.
come on!!!!! for no reason? THEY ARE ANOTHER RACE!!!!! isnt that enough reason to kill anybody? it doesnt matter if they did anything to me or not, they are another race and thus deserve to DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!
As to which is better, I think it depends on the game really.
But dont get me wrong, people find ways around it, such as higher levels turning people purple when dressed as a newbie, and owning em, or having another lowbie trigger em and then they run in and shank the guy...
but when i started playing l2 back in the day, there was almost always a red sighted in each play session. (and he was a pker not some sort of avenger or whatnot).
L2 does have a great system... sort of... for its gameplay(which is rather unimpressive truthfully...) it couldnt be better.
But then theres games like daoc or wow. They are totally different in "feeling" then games like l2. Daoc especially.
The problem with player driven alliance is that... Its not always as "grand" as you make it seem. Honestly saying l2 pvp is always because of "politics" is just a joke. From what ive seen, and from my few friends its generally just whoever pisses people off the most, or if your doing a castle raid or something. I've never actually heard of any sort of roleplay between 2 different enemy groups, where they actually acted out scenes of political importance and the like.
But I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but don't try to say that thats how it always is.
In WOW, all races are divided into either Alliance or Horde. You can only fight with the players from the other side...forever.
Your point?
Your a human in l2(just a example), your killing the same races over and over again....forever. "but bladin the actual people your fighting are different!" Not always. And its not as if in wow etc the same people turn up and only they turn up.
And you guys saying "noone does random killing, its all alliances and whatnot" How is that any different then say different guilds in wow/daoc fighting different guilds from the other side?
The problem with ffa pvp is that it limits story driven pvp.
"why not trolls and orcs just fighting!!!111!one"
again... wow and daoc both offer story driven alliances and whatnot, the troll group were practically almost wiped out but through thralls help they managed to get protected under his banner. Hence a alliance.(not 100% on the lore... i dont like the trolls).
Theres a reason why each side has each race, and its warcraft! It's a game based on war(even tho they basically remove the actual war with each patch =/) The horde and the alliance are fighting for a actual land mass expansion. Not just to see who has the biggest muscles. (theres basically more lore in warcraft 1-20 then all of l2....)
The problem with ffa pvp is you never basically make a difference. It could be made so it actually does sometime in the future, but as it stands now, it does not exist. (unless you count shadowbane, but that game is real ffa, not like l2(if you honestly think l2 is real ffa your kidding yourself) and its gameplay is just horrible).
My problem is games like l2 who boast "ffa pvp" hold peoples hands too much with penalties(such as the armor dropping for pks).
Let's not forgets L2s exp loss, and how the entire game is a grind. It's entire system would simply not work in a real pvp setting.
PKers exist for the same reason Anti-pks exist.
In a ffa system(true ffa), you get to see more REAL rp, more real interaction, more real... realness. Honestly if someones pissing you off in L2, you CAN NOT just kill him willy nilly, be he stealing your kills or other vile acts. Chances are he won't attack you back, and your name turns red. And there are TONS of players who have the motto of "red = dead".
A perfect PvP game would be similar to eq2, only more ffa. And that you gain exp, and they drop money, and item %, with rarer items not dropping. Dieing while flagged for pvp does not give you any armor or exp penalties.(I've seen people "shut down" a player before). Just your money, and your items, be they harvest materials, junk you've collected, more "commonish items"(by rare items i mean items that are truely legendary)
But give it faction pvp in its system as well. For example, 4 kingdoms are fighting for superiority. You can freely join either one, and later betray them. But once you betray you can NEVER go back. But when your not inside a faction, you can form up guilds, with guild cities, and work as mercenaries, take spoils of battle for yourself, raid supply wagons, work like bandits. Hire npcs to work inside your city as guards and the like, and build up your reputation, become famous or infamous, be constantly under attack, or constantly asked for, for support.
A system like that offers story driven pvp, as well as a free aspect. But in order to encourage more open and frequent pvp, you have to have the rewards and the penalties be balanced, as well as having a fun and interactive pve game that does not conflict with the pvp game.
The problem is the "fear" associated with being openly pvp. If you kill so and so outside of town, in the middle of nowhere, no one should know! Guards shouldnt exclude you from town. But if you are attacked by a guild who are destroying your supplies, but you manage to escape you can report them, they will become wanted. There should be no "invisible eye" who penalizes/rewards pvpers.
Some people will say "with no exp/armor penalties where would the challenge be?" The challenge would be your monetary benefits. There are no "safe banks" You can store stuff in your house, or on your person, but if someone breaks into your house, or burns your town down, your SOL, you may have to seek refuge with one of the factions to rebuild yourself. It would require deep alliances to survive out on your own, and still offer deep faction based pvp. Not everyone would be able to make it on their own. Theres no safety in the ENTIRE WORLD. your in a dark alley? you can get robbed, someone picks your houses lock or breaks into it and your in trouble. But hopefully you have some guards around. Or maybe that wouldn't be lucky for you? What if you run a black market between 2 different factions, or are forming a betrayal.
See thats where the dynamics of a "hybrid" ensue.
But as it stands now, there are no true ffa games worth playing(shadowbane has truely horrid gameplay/interface despite its nice features). the realm systems just are better as it stands.
This post you made is nothing but you trying to get your jaded opinion out over the populace, with people reading your idealistic messages and going... oh ya! that sounds awesome!
again... wow
and daoc both offer story driven alliances and whatnot, the troll group
were practically almost wiped out but through thralls help they managed
to get protected under his banner. Hence a alliance.(not 100% on the
lore... i dont like the trolls). [/quote]
I am aware of this, what I am arguing is it would be a lot more fun, but obviously is not viable.
I havent figured how to quote text on this board so Bladin your comments are white...mine are light green.
The problem here is. The reason why l2 doesnt have many random pks is simply because of the penalty behind it
What penalty? There is no penalty unless you go over 5 PK's and there is a simple quest to wash away your sins once you go over 5....ok first time around obtaining the manacles is a chore but after that its a breeze.
The problem with player driven alliance is that... Its not always as "grand" as you make it seem. Honestly saying l2 pvp is always because of "politics" is just a joke. From what ive seen, and from my few friends its generally just whoever pisses people off the most, or if your doing a castle raid or something. I've never actually heard of any sort of roleplay between 2 different enemy groups, where they actually acted out scenes of political importance and the like.
Well firstly no one said it was always because of politics. Other than that I feel perhaps my definition (cant speak for Jazia) of the word "politics" and your understanding of it are nor gelling. I certainly never meant it to sound "grand" so I will explain exactly what I mean.
If my guild is signed up to attack another guilds castle the castle owner and his guild will be notified of this. Now it would be lovely to roleplay our advance on the castle, marching overland for days or weeks on end, but it isnt practical and so the game has to simulate that for us.
So now the Castle Lord knows we are a threat to him. Do I venture into his territory and expect to hunt peacefully alongside his clan? Politics forbid! And after the siege is over, win or lose, do I expect the Lord and his men to look kindly upon my clans actions? Heck NO.
That aside, name the #1 reason players get pissed off....territorial disputes is why, and that brings us back to politics. Yes thats political even if it is just one room in one dungeon.
The problem with ffa pvp is that it limits story driven pvp
In L2 the players drive the story, not the other way around.
My problem is games like l2 who boast "ffa pvp" hold peoples hands too much with penalties(such as the armor dropping for pks).
Do you mean lack of penalties? *confused*
And you guys saying "noone does random killing, its all alliances and whatnot" How is that any different then say different guilds in wow/daoc fighting different guilds from the other side?
The difference is we arent told who our enemies or allies are. We start the game with none of either so our relationships evolve naturally based on player dynamics...this takes quite some time and is very different from being directed into roles based on rigid storyline (I was staggered to find out there is no option for betrayal within the WoW faction system).
Personally, when I want to be led and told who my enemies are I play a single-player game. In a MMORPG I like a little more freedom to choose for myself. Its just a matter of taste and FFA suits my taste better than RvR.