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Trying to "force" the SWG license change

AH-CleanerAH-Cleaner Member Posts: 22
in Star Wars Galaxies

I honestly hope that if enough people repeat over and over again that SWG is going to be run by Bioware that it may come true.  Maybe Bioware can make the game playable again.  It is our best hope at this.  I haven't played since NGE and still miss the old days.  No other games out right now even come close to SWG at it's prime(I will leave it to you to pick the period in which you consider "Prime")  I miss the game, the friends, the community, etc. and I want to play SWG but in it's current state it just (fill in the deragatory blank). 

How many times have we read in a tabloid that a famous couple is going to break up and then a month or two later they actually do break up.  They never had any intention of breaking up before the reports but the reports gave them a good idea.  "You know what those magazines are right I really do hate you, I want a divorce" 

Another example was of course "Wizard of OZ" we all know hat one I don't need to explain.

I feel that the only reason I still hold out hope is because there are no SCI-FI genre games out right now that interest me.  When a Sci-fi game comes out, notably STO, that will interest ppl like SWG then I fear that SWG will be truely lost(if it isn't already).  Because of what they have done SWG has ended up a slogan for how not to do things.  Example - 1)  Paying for a gym membership to a gym that is run out of someones garage and they only have three pieces of equipment.  Yet you go everyday and wait in line for the 10 people ahead of you work out all the while the Gym owner is promising additional equipment - one could say to such a person "Why are you letting this gym SOE you??"  2)  When you goto a car dealership and lease a car that has a V-8 engine with 380 hp and after about a year of the car not performing that well the engine dies.  The car is still under warranty so you take it in to get repaired and the dealership puts a 750 cc motorcycle engine in it as a replacement One could say "They pulled an SWG on you"  Sorry went off on a tangent.  

I highly dislike the Fantasy Genre even though WOW seems to have put together a respectable game and they seem to respect the players better than any other company I have seen in recent history.  

I know it probably doesn't work that way but keep the SWG and Bioware talk alive because Bioware is my only hope.

Sorry about the cliche remarks

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Comments

  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961
    Persistent world MMORPGs are generally a bad idea. All succesful new ones go for smaller concepts. Instancing, smaller zones, single player friendly, reduced grind.

    Big games still come out, but 4 out of 5 flop on the business side. Hate SOE, but they are making profit out of their games. Any way they can.

    With current technology and designs, the MMORPGs are reaching limits. It's not about Bioware or some other publisher. Even Blizzard, who receives $1 bil a year in subscriptions, spends majority of it on expenses. MMOs are not big business. They are risky, unrewarding moderate profit investment.


  • AH-CleanerAH-Cleaner Member Posts: 22

    I think the managment and decision making with SOE has been wrong since day one.  I do honestly believe a persistan-world MMO can be very successful but it needs to make the right decisions as far as the game goes.  SOE has proven to most of us that they have managed the SW brand poorly and even from the beginning did not keep up the franchies expectations.

  • ClackamasClackamas Member Posts: 776

    Originally posted by Rekrul
    Persistent world MMORPGs are generally a bad idea. All succesful new ones go for smaller concepts. Instancing, smaller zones, single player friendly, reduced grind.

    Big games still come out, but 4 out of 5 flop on the business side. Hate SOE, but they are making profit out of their games. Any way they can.

    With current technology and designs, the MMORPGs are reaching limits. It's not about Bioware or some other publisher. Even Blizzard, who receives $1 bil a year in subscriptions, spends majority of it on expenses. MMOs are not big business. They are risky, unrewarding moderate profit investment.



    Flying is a bad idea... it can never be done.

    'nuf said.
  • AH-CleanerAH-Cleaner Member Posts: 22

    Originally posted by Clackamas

    Originally posted by Rekrul
    Persistent world MMORPGs are generally a bad idea. All succesful new ones go for smaller concepts. Instancing, smaller zones, single player friendly, reduced grind.

    Big games still come out, but 4 out of 5 flop on the business side. Hate SOE, but they are making profit out of their games. Any way they can.

    With current technology and designs, the MMORPGs are reaching limits. It's not about Bioware or some other publisher. Even Blizzard, who receives $1 bil a year in subscriptions, spends majority of it on expenses. MMOs are not big business. They are risky, unrewarding moderate profit investment.

    Flying is a bad idea... it can never be done.

    'nuf said.

    So is riding a goat.
  • xPaladinxPaladin Member UncommonPosts: 741
    Well, first -- I'd be surprised if BioWare was actually doing any of this. They're not fans of LucasArts. And I can't blame them. But I've seen stranger stuff (Nintendo WII anyone? gahahahaha).

    More to your topic, I'd say to look at Star Force copy protection and the number of publishers steadily dropping off the DRM bandwagon simply because of the extremely negative publicity it's received. SWG is not any different now, but LucasArts is stubborn. That said, if any major change of that sort happens to SWG, it'll be long after the majority of people complaining now stop caring outright.

    -- xpaladin

    [MMOz]
    AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW

  • hargravehargrave Member Posts: 329
    The problem is we need Devs that like star wars and know how to make a game out of it. Not people who want to turn SWG into W0W and think theyll instantly have 5 mill subscriptions.

    image

    We're sitting in our offices thinking of ways to upset our paying customers. I think were on track to meet that goal.

    John Smedley

  • azgarthazgarth Member UncommonPosts: 188

    On Off Topic Forum of Bioware, The Official What would you like to see in a SW MMO thread has reached 10 pages and was locked. This because that is the limit of pages any can have.

    http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=475512&forum=22&sp=135

    This are Chris Priestly words, and they keep my hope lighten up:

    And with Redd Dragon's post, that pushes us over the 10 pages limit. We close threads down here once they reach 10 pages to keep the boards running smoothly and not use up too much intarweb.

    Even though I am closing this thread, if you wish to keep the topic alive, please feel free to restart the thread with a catchy new title like "The Official “What you'd like to see in a SW MMO Part 2" or something and keep discussing your ideas.

    And once again, just a reminder that even though we allow this thread to be discussed here, it in no way means that we are or are not setting our unannounced MMO in any Star Wars universe.

    All that said? Clear? Good.

    Part 2 starts here:

    http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=478584&forum=22

  • rekkorrekkor Member Posts: 112
    Somethign you said in that first post reminded me of something

    SWG is the sega dreamcast of MMORPG's

    You know how dreamcast was all awesome but for some reason was a flop and became known as a bad word and you didn't want your product associated with its name lol.

    Like SWG got Munsened!


  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077

    Originally posted by Rekrul
    Persistent world MMORPGs are generally a bad idea. All succesful new ones go for smaller concepts. Instancing, smaller zones, single player friendly, reduced grind.

    Big games still come out, but 4 out of 5 flop on the business side. Hate SOE, but they are making profit out of their games. Any way they can.

    With current technology and designs, the MMORPGs are reaching limits. It's not about Bioware or some other publisher. Even Blizzard, who receives $1 bil a year in subscriptions, spends majority of it on expenses. MMOs are not big business. They are risky, unrewarding moderate profit investment.



    You're kidding right?  Blizzard and NCSOFT are taking home roughly 340 Million a QUARTER *after* expenses.  For a bunch of games.   That's pure profit.  Name another company out there that pulls in over a BILLION a year in pure profit.

    If you don't think that's big business you're crazy.   Typically it costs a game company much less to support an MMO than to design a new game.  In 1 month of support of any MMO that has more than 50k players or so they make more than they would on box sales of an average single player game. 

    The only 'risk' in MMO's is whether your game will catch on.  But the big names out there have proven track records of releasing successful games.  Either through name recognition or just a stronger understanding of the market than players give them credit for. 

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • KenshuAniKenshuAni Member CommonPosts: 851

    Originally posted by AH-Cleaner

    I honestly hope that if enough people repeat over and over again that SWG is going to be run by Bioware that it may come true.  Maybe Bioware can make the game playable again.  It is our best hope at this.  I haven't played since NGE and still miss the old days.  No other games out right now even come close to SWG at it's prime(I will leave it to you to pick the period in which you consider "Prime")  I miss the game, the friends, the community, etc. and I want to play SWG but in it's current state it just (fill in the deragatory blank). 
    Personally, I don't care if BioWare gets the license or not.  For me, if another Star Wars MMORPG comes out, I don't care who runs it.  As long as it is not SOE!
  • AthelaAthela Member Posts: 492

    Ack that Bioware quote :And once again, just a reminder that even though we allow this thread to be discussed here, it in no way means that we are or are not setting our unannounced MMO in any Star Wars universe.

    Those guys are too nice to get peoples hopes up arent they?


  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077
    That's corporate nice-speak for:
    "We're neither confirming nor denying that statement".

    Bottom line:  Bioware is going to play it VERY close to the chest like they always do.  Any speculation on a MMO title from them is just that, speculation.  Until there's an official announcement we just won't know :)

    It is fun to ponder though.


    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • azgarthazgarth Member UncommonPosts: 188

    There is one undeniable fact:

    I keep in touch with my friends from UO/SWG/EQ2/WOW, and they all plan to go back if the game is handled by Bioware. Like them, another vocal minority, I'm pretty sure many others do too. Let's hope the fact they haven't yet denied the fact will be positive, and that the game is indeed going to swap hands. I usualy buy all Blizzard and Bioware games and they never disapointed me, nor them, so this could be the light in the end of the tunnel we all hope, or simply a rumor that is amusing them but might in the future turn in to a real fact, since there is a lot of positive feedback on the issue. 

  • ObraikObraik Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,261
    Why would the license change when LA is equally responsible for the changes you don't like?  Why do you think a SW MMO will be any different under another company?  No matter who develops it, LA will always have the last say on what happens and I doubt there is any way there will be a SW MMO without LA being involved.

    image

    image

  • DrSmaShDrSmaSh Member UncommonPosts: 454
    Even if LA orders things around and give ideas... The devs are the ones taht have to deliver them. And SOE failes every time. Original (LA) idea could be good... But they are just too stupid to make it right. Same bugs were in game for over 2 years...

    Every time I read your post, I die a little inside...
  • ObraikObraik Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,261

    Originally posted by DrSmaSh
    Even if LA orders things around and give ideas... The devs are the ones taht have to deliver them. And SOE failes every time. Original (LA) idea could be good... But they are just too stupid to make it right. Same bugs were in game for over 2 years...
    So why does LA let it out then?  They are the ones that have the final word on that, and they do the QA.

    image

    image

  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077

    I dunno... I'm skeptical that SWG under another developer would be any better.

    That said BioWare has worked with LEC before (KOTOR) and produced a high quality RPG that was bug free and met with LEC's approvals...

    What I would hope for is that BioWare, having the focus they do on quality, wouldn't let it out their doors in the state SOE does. 

    Like I said, I honestly don't think there'd be much of a difference.  But I have a lot more faith in a BioWare title than an SOE one.  I have yet to play a game done by BioWare that wasn't first rate.

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • ObraikObraik Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,261
    Hasn't LA's management changed since KOTOR?  Since then it seems to be more about the deadline and less about the game (KOTORII & ROTW for example)

    image

    image

  • DrSmaShDrSmaSh Member UncommonPosts: 454
    Listen... Who knows what's going on in LA and SOE. We can only guess. LA and SOE didn't want this to happen to SWG. But it did. I'm sure they had different idea what will happen once they put this stuff out... But as we can all see they were wrong.

    LA and SOE are big dogs... There is lot's of buisness and "buisness" going on in big companies and there could be so many things that could be the reason why they did that to SWG. Mybe some one wanted to ruin SWG so SOE could lose the SW right. Or SOE didn't even want to be bothered with it any more. I'm sure there was a contratc between LA in SOE and who ever would break tha tcontract would have to pay... You see where I'm going?

    There is a zillion things that could go wrong here.

    Bottom line is they all want $$$. So LA or SOE didn't want to share with the other... Zillion things.


    Every time I read your post, I die a little inside...
  • duncan_922duncan_922 Member Posts: 1,670

    Originally posted by Obraik
    Why would the license change when LA is equally responsible for the changes you don't like?  Why do you think a SW MMO will be any different under another company?  No matter who develops it, LA will always have the last say on what happens and I doubt there is any way there will be a SW MMO without LA being involved.
    A Star Wars game without LA involved is simply impossible.

    However, we all know from the mouth of Smed himself that the NGE WAS NOT FORCED ON THEM by LA.  We all know that SOE does the coding.  We all know that LA is supposed to be doing the QA. 

    So basically...  LA is not doing their job.  But SOE are the ones coming up with these stupid ideas and f#cking up every release.

    SOE knows what you like... You don't!
    And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!

  • ObraikObraik Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,261

    Originally posted by duncan_922

    Originally posted by Obraik
    Why would the license change when LA is equally responsible for the changes you don't like?  Why do you think a SW MMO will be any different under another company?  No matter who develops it, LA will always have the last say on what happens and I doubt there is any way there will be a SW MMO without LA being involved.
    A Star Wars game without LA involved is simply impossible.

    However, we all know from the mouth of Smed himself that the NGE WAS NOT FORCED ON THEM by LA.  We all know that SOE does the coding.  We all know that LA is supposed to be doing the QA. 

    So basically...  LA is not doing their job.  But SOE are the ones coming up with these stupid ideas and f#cking up every release.

    So, why is it only SOE's fault when something goes wrong?  SOE certainly aren't innocent, but they're not the only ones you should be holding responsible.  If LA is approving it and letting it go out, what does that tell you?

    image

    image

  • duncan_922duncan_922 Member Posts: 1,670

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Originally posted by duncan_922

    Originally posted by Obraik
    Why would the license change when LA is equally responsible for the changes you don't like?  Why do you think a SW MMO will be any different under another company?  No matter who develops it, LA will always have the last say on what happens and I doubt there is any way there will be a SW MMO without LA being involved.


    A Star Wars game without LA involved is simply impossible.

    However, we all know from the mouth of Smed himself that the NGE WAS NOT FORCED ON THEM by LA.  We all know that SOE does the coding.  We all know that LA is supposed to be doing the QA. 

    So basically...  LA is not doing their job.  But SOE are the ones coming up with these stupid ideas and f#cking up every release.

    So, why is it only SOE's fault when something goes wrong?  SOE certainly aren't innocent, but they're not the only ones you should be holding responsible.  If LA is approving it and letting it go out, what does that tell you?

    That they are just as incompetent as SOE. 

    I'm not saying that LA is not accountable.  I'm usually the first one to correct people when they solely place the blame on SOE.  But 2 things have to be taken into consideration:

    1.  Most of these problems are coding problems (ie.  loot drops borked, lag, sounds missing, etc...)  which is the sole responsability of SOE.  LA should be doing QA and they are obviously not.  But then again, why are so many bugs making it to live, specially bugs like the loot drop problems that had been reported?

    2. LA has proven that they can release a good game when they partner with a good company (KOTOR, Jedi Knights, Empire at War).  SOE's only true creation (EQ2) has grown "stagnant" to put it mildly.

    SOE knows what you like... You don't!
    And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!

  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077

    Originally posted by Obraik
    Hasn't LA's management changed since KOTOR?  Since then it seems to be more about the deadline and less about the game (KOTORII & ROTW for example)


    KOTOR II wasn't really all that bad.  And it was a spinoff of BioWare that made it.  All-in-all it was still a far sight better than SWG:NGE is.  And ROTW wasn't exactly a "bad" expansion it just showed that SOE had already decided to head to a more 'linear' world than SWG had been previously.   Kashyyk being the only world, at the time, that you couldn't go "anywhere" on but had to explore certain "ZONES" (yuck).  It was also the first expansion done by the team they brought over from EQ2 (which sorta explains the sudden appearance of "zones" as well).

    I actually liked the ROTW expansion except for all the EQ'ish things that the new DEV team brought into it (zones, etc).

    As you know I'm the first person to lay blame on BOTH companies but faults in the CODE or DESIGN I lay at SOE's feet.  LA comes up with new ideas (and NGE WAS a bad one) it's SOE's job to code them and design them in a way that's enjoyable.  Even JEDI aren't a bad *idea* it's how SOE kept implementing them that sucked.

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • azgarthazgarth Member UncommonPosts: 188

    I agree, and about KOTOR II that was made by Obsidion, not Bioware, I enjoyed the game, even if the end of the story was rushed - clearly due to some pressure from L.A. Deadlines are a major pain for us gamers, since they can ruin a master piece and let it out before polished. On this I can't blame the Devs, but I do whoever is responsible for those: "You have to meet the deadline to launch the game at the same time as the DVD or movie" thing. This was why Trials of Obi Wan was launched when it was, like most comercials said, at the same time as the Episode III DVD. And again, what a nice result....

    In what concerns Bioware, let's imagine a precious painting from Picasso. It could even be the oddest SWG ever, but since it had the artist signature it would always draw a crowd. It was not the cartoonish look of WOW that first made it a success, it was the reputation of the Developers Team. Then the word of mouth and reviews certainly helped.

    I hope Bioware takes over and manages to do what ever they want without too much pressure from LA, this game certainly needs a lot of loving and time if it wants to glow again.  

  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077
    Do a little digging on who Obsidian was :)  It'll be enlightening.  It was basically a bunch of BioWare programmers who created their own shop.  IE: A sort of 'spinoff'.  I never said BioWare did KOTOR II :)

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

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