The drama queens saying SoE screwed up X game need to read what Brad McQuaid has said about the contract between Sigil and SoE.
Here I'll fill you in since you are too busy crying like little bitches:
Sony handles only OUT OF GAME support, billing and hardware.
Sigil handles IN GAME support
Sigil handles ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of gameplay decisions.
That's where your EQ / SWG comparisons fall way short. SWG and EQ had SoE involved in gameplay. Even before SoE officially took over Verant, they had gameplay decisions. In this case SOE has NO gameplay decisions.
SOE HANDLES ONLY OUT OF GAME SUPPORT / BILLING / HARDWARE <--- READ OVER AND OVER.
HmMm, wonder if it will make it to the All Access Pass then!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Some of us have had experience with SOE and it's been positive. I've been playing SOE games for over 6 years now, and have never had a bad CS experience. They havent' always been able to answer my requests in a way I like, but they have always responded. AND, unlike many of the hardcore players that populate MMORPG message boards, they changes SOE has made to some of thier games have made them much more accessable to those with limited time.
I think Brad made a smart business decision in chosing SOE for business partner.
SOE is the devil and anything they touch is tainted.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
I'm mostly just standing on the sidelines watching all of this but there is one thing that I keep seeing people say that I find extremely childish. Well ok, to be honest about it this all would probably seem a little silly to people who don't play MMORPGs and have no emotional investment in the games and the genre. But anyway...
The thing that I find to be almost unbearably childish about all of this is after people say they won't play the game now; and then some guy comes in behind them and says, "Oh yes you will. You'll play it anyway."
Ex-Fan: I'm not going to play Vanguard now.
Mocker: Oh yes you will!
Ex-Fan: No, I really have lost interest in it.
Mocker: Oh no you haven't!
Ex-Fan: Look, I feel very strongly about this.
Mocker: Oh no you don't!
Ex-Fan: Um...yes...I do. Don't tell me how I feel.
Mocker: You don't feel anything!
Ex-Fan: Whatever man.
Mocker: Hah!!!! I win!!!!
It's so...so...annoying. Don't tell people what they think or feel or what they will or won't do. Some people might very well change their minds. But for the most part I would bet that the majority of people who feel strongly enough about it to vent on a message board will probably stick to what they say.
At some point I said I was quitting EQ...and I did.
I said I would never buy WoW...and I haven't.
If someone says they won't play Vanguard with SOE stinking the place up...they probably won't. It's not like it's the only mmorpg available after all.
Anyway, that was my little bit of venting for the day.
Originally posted by Copeland EQ was fine until SOE took it over. EQ was more than fine with SOE involved as the publisher. I don't understand why people would be upset. I'll only be upset when SOE starts developing Vanguard expansions.
1) SOE never "took it over" EQ has always, since development, been a SONY title. Notice that QEYNOS is "Sony EQ" spelled backwards. Qeynos was the first set of zones ever built in the EQ engine. Ever. That's why so many dev's chat handles are featured in the Qeynos quest areas (Fippy, etc). It's also, by the way, the reason that Qeynos is still in existence in EQ2
2) Correct
3) Won't happen. Sony doesn't have control of concept, design, code or development. They're only going to handle marketting, hosting and billing of the product. Sigil retains 100% control over the game. Brad has clarified that multiple times on the official Vanguard forums.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Copeland EQ was fine until SOE took it over. EQ was more than fine with SOE involved as the publisher. I don't understand why people would be upset. I'll only be upset when SOE starts developing Vanguard expansions.1) SOE never "took it over" EQ has always, since development, been a SONY title. Notice that QEYNOS is "Sony EQ" spelled backwards. Qeynos was the first set of zones ever built in the EQ engine. Ever. That's why so many dev's chat handles are featured in the Qeynos quest areas (Fippy, etc). It's also, by the way, the reason that Qeynos is still in existence in EQ2 :)2) Correct3) Won't happen. Sony doesn't have control of concept, design, code or development. They're only going to handle marketting, hosting and billing of the product. Sigil retains 100% control over the game. Brad has clarified that multiple times on the official Vanguard forums.
However Brad has also said other things such as the wonderful marriage between them and MS. Public statements don't hold alot of water to me anymore, that is more damage control then anything else. And there is nothing to say the relationship couldn't change in the future. Such as Sigil decides to sell itself to SOE just as Verrant sold itself to SOE long ago.
Anything could happen, I wouldn't discount SOE's involvement now as an absolute.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Copeland EQ was fine until SOE took it over. EQ was more than fine with SOE involved as the publisher. I don't understand why people would be upset. I'll only be upset when SOE starts developing Vanguard expansions.
1) SOE never "took it over" EQ has always, since development, been a SONY title. Notice that QEYNOS is "Sony EQ" spelled backwards. Qeynos was the first set of zones ever built in the EQ engine. Ever. That's why so many dev's chat handles are featured in the Qeynos quest areas (Fippy, etc). It's also, by the way, the reason that Qeynos is still in existence in EQ2 :)2) Correct3) Won't happen. Sony doesn't have control of concept, design, code or development. They're only going to handle marketting, hosting and billing of the product. Sigil retains 100% control over the game. Brad has clarified that multiple times on the official Vanguard forums.
However Brad has also said other things such as the wonderful marriage between them and MS. Public statements don't hold alot of water to me anymore, that is more damage control then anything else. And there is nothing to say the relationship couldn't change in the future. Such as Sigil decides to sell itself to SOE just as Verrant sold itself to SOE long ago.
Anything could happen, I wouldn't discount SOE's involvement now as an absolute.
Very true. Then again I trust *Brad* more than most other MMO developers out there. As I said, I don't have a pony in this race because I have no plans to play Vanguard. I just don't like it when people trash a game before even trying it.
Sure SOE might get a larger role sometime in the nebulous future. Then again any other MMO might collapse sometime in the nebulous future. God knows THAT has happened before too. So worrying too much about what *might* happen *if X happens* is silly.
Bottom line: Try the game. If you like it, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it. But don't bash on a game when you've ever even seen it yet. That's just silly.
As far as whether sigil has "sold out"? Personally I considered them working with Microsoft a LOT worse than working with SOE. Name 1 good MMO that Microsoft has been involved with please?
Didn't think so.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Anybody in closed beta already knew something like this was going to happen a long time ago.
After beta 2 ended I never bothered to login again as the game was years shy of being what they wanted. Unless they were testing 2 year old builds of the game?
Originally posted by mstic Anybody in closed beta already knew something like this was going to happen a long time ago.
After beta 2 ended I never bothered to login again as the game was years shy of being what they wanted. Unless they were testing 2 year old builds of the game?
Bingo.
Speaking as a Vanguard beta tester myself, I have my own theory as to what went down. Basically, Microsoft finally realized where the development of this game was going (nowhere) and bailed. SoE couldn't care less about the quality of any of their own games, much less Vanguard (which will still be developed by Sigil), and so picked up a publishing/hosting/customer-service deal to cash out on all the artificial hype that mysteriously built up around the game. SoE will undoubtedly add it to its Station Access plan, which would con many of their current customers into upgrading to Station Access, as well as bringing in new people who will just opt for the Station Access right from the start since it would appear to be the best "bargain".
Of course, that's just my theory. And what do I know?
The fundamental difference between MS and SOE is that MS has a history of making bad games, while SOE has a history of making games bad.
I had already previously decided not to play Vanguard because of it's forced interdependence for both adventuring and crafting, but I would certainly feel more comfortable with a MS/Sigil partnership because of Brad's reputation as a good game designer/producer which seems to be MS's weakness.
SOE however, is known for destructive meddling.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
I've ended my 10 years run on MUDs and MMOs about a couple of months ago. This is the first time I heard about Sigil and SOE working together. I had no interest in playing Vanguard before I heard about this, and now I"m considering on continueing my online gaming when this comes out. One of the things WoW went wrong is the instablility of servers. With Sigil picking SOE to handle the technical stuff will guarantee in having good and stable servers.
Comments
The drama queens saying SoE screwed up X game need to read what Brad McQuaid has said about the contract between Sigil and SoE.
Here I'll fill you in since you are too busy crying like little bitches:
Sony handles only OUT OF GAME support, billing and hardware.
Sigil handles IN GAME support
Sigil handles ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of gameplay decisions.
That's where your EQ / SWG comparisons fall way short. SWG and EQ had SoE involved in gameplay. Even before SoE officially took over Verant, they had gameplay decisions. In this case SOE has NO gameplay decisions.
SOE HANDLES ONLY OUT OF GAME SUPPORT / BILLING / HARDWARE <--- READ OVER AND OVER.
Get it? No? Still gonna cry eh? Brutal
HmMm, wonder if it will make it to the All Access Pass then!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I think Brad made a smart business decision in chosing SOE for business partner.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
EQ was fine until SOE took it over.
EQ was more than fine with SOE involved as the publisher.
I don't understand why people would be upset. I'll only be upset when SOE starts developing Vanguard expansions.
Make a difference!
I'm mostly just standing on the sidelines watching all of this but there is one thing that I keep seeing people say that I find extremely childish. Well ok, to be honest about it this all would probably seem a little silly to people who don't play MMORPGs and have no emotional investment in the games and the genre. But anyway...
The thing that I find to be almost unbearably childish about all of this is after people say they won't play the game now; and then some guy comes in behind them and says, "Oh yes you will. You'll play it anyway."
Ex-Fan: I'm not going to play Vanguard now.
Mocker: Oh yes you will!
Ex-Fan: No, I really have lost interest in it.
Mocker: Oh no you haven't!
Ex-Fan: Look, I feel very strongly about this.
Mocker: Oh no you don't!
Ex-Fan: Um...yes...I do. Don't tell me how I feel.
Mocker: You don't feel anything!
Ex-Fan: Whatever man.
Mocker: Hah!!!! I win!!!!
It's so...so...annoying. Don't tell people what they think or feel or what they will or won't do. Some people might very well change their minds. But for the most part I would bet that the majority of people who feel strongly enough about it to vent on a message board will probably stick to what they say.
At some point I said I was quitting EQ...and I did.
I said I would never buy WoW...and I haven't.
If someone says they won't play Vanguard with SOE stinking the place up...they probably won't. It's not like it's the only mmorpg available after all.
Anyway, that was my little bit of venting for the day.
2) Correct
3) Won't happen. Sony doesn't have control of concept, design, code or development. They're only going to handle marketting, hosting and billing of the product. Sigil retains 100% control over the game. Brad has clarified that multiple times on the official Vanguard forums.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
However Brad has also said other things such as the wonderful marriage between them and MS. Public statements don't hold alot of water to me anymore, that is more damage control then anything else. And there is nothing to say the relationship couldn't change in the future. Such as Sigil decides to sell itself to SOE just as Verrant sold itself to SOE long ago.
Anything could happen, I wouldn't discount SOE's involvement now as an absolute.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
However Brad has also said other things such as the wonderful marriage between them and MS. Public statements don't hold alot of water to me anymore, that is more damage control then anything else. And there is nothing to say the relationship couldn't change in the future. Such as Sigil decides to sell itself to SOE just as Verrant sold itself to SOE long ago.
Anything could happen, I wouldn't discount SOE's involvement now as an absolute.
Very true. Then again I trust *Brad* more than most other MMO developers out there. As I said, I don't have a pony in this race because I have no plans to play Vanguard. I just don't like it when people trash a game before even trying it.
Sure SOE might get a larger role sometime in the nebulous future. Then again any other MMO might collapse sometime in the nebulous future. God knows THAT has happened before too. So worrying too much about what *might* happen *if X happens* is silly.
Bottom line:
Try the game. If you like it, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it. But don't bash on a game when you've ever even seen it yet. That's just silly.
As far as whether sigil has "sold out"? Personally I considered them working with Microsoft a LOT worse than working with SOE. Name 1 good MMO that Microsoft has been involved with please?
Didn't think so.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
After beta 2 ended I never bothered to login again as the game was years shy of being what they wanted. Unless they were testing 2 year old builds of the game?
Speaking as a Vanguard beta tester myself, I have my own theory as to what went down. Basically, Microsoft finally realized where the development of this game was going (nowhere) and bailed. SoE couldn't care less about the quality of any of their own games, much less Vanguard (which will still be developed by Sigil), and so picked up a publishing/hosting/customer-service deal to cash out on all the artificial hype that mysteriously built up around the game. SoE will undoubtedly add it to its Station Access plan, which would con many of their current customers into upgrading to Station Access, as well as bringing in new people who will just opt for the Station Access right from the start since it would appear to be the best "bargain".
Of course, that's just my theory. And what do I know?
The fundamental difference between MS and SOE is that MS has a history of making bad games, while SOE has a history of making games bad.
I had already previously decided not to play Vanguard because of it's forced interdependence for both adventuring and crafting, but I would certainly feel more comfortable with a MS/Sigil partnership because of Brad's reputation as a good game designer/producer which seems to be MS's weakness.
SOE however, is known for destructive meddling.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I've ended my 10 years run on MUDs and MMOs about a couple of months ago. This is the first time I heard about Sigil and SOE working together. I had no interest in playing Vanguard before I heard about this, and now I"m considering on continueing my online gaming when this comes out. One of the things WoW went wrong is the instablility of servers. With Sigil picking SOE to handle the technical stuff will guarantee in having good and stable servers.
(1995-2006)