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For those SOE haters

I understand there are alot of SOE haters out there that are bad mouthing Vanguard because of the new switch to coproduce with SOE. My question for you all is why? They are not touching the game at all and only doing boxing/shipping/billing/advertising. What effect does that have on the game? Zero. I even look forward to the switch because they have alot of experience in these ares, albeit some good and some bad. Their experience handling many MMORPGs will be usful in minimizing early hickups in their areas. I believe that is a good thing. I understand most peole's worries about how gameplay decisions will be affected by SOE but both parties involved have stated that SOE will not be involved whatsoever with development. I was shocked as anyone else by the news. However, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and realize that it may not be such a bad thing. Give Vanguard and Sigil a chance until they are proven wrong.




Comments

  • EthanaelEthanael Member UncommonPosts: 194
    People are too hell bent on past experiences from SoE games and wont wake up to look at the big picture regarding Sigil/SoE.   Brad is too freaking ambitious and dedicated to produce his vision to let someone just trample the hell all over it.   Evidently that was shown by them buying the publishing rights (not being droped) and heading over to his friend to help.

    I'd just wait for more information to be released about the gameplay.  The gameplay is what should be attracting people to the game.  Who gives a flying rats butt about SoE.  ;)  Play Vanguard because you love the concept behind the story and want to experience a truely dynamic world. 

    We'll see what happens when the release date approaches.  I'm sure there will be a lot of faces that go, "oh, I might have been a bit harsh.. This game looks awsome *buys a copy*".

    Then there will be those who just are up there own creek and are to stubborn.  Can't help that and we can't please 100% of the population of this world.

    m_dave


  • TymoraTymora Member UncommonPosts: 1,295

    Yes, people have been jaded by SOE, and perhaps they are justified in how they feel.  I know I was pretty upset with SOE after the NGE.  But overall,  SOE has been doing what all other companies are trying to do - make  mmorpgs and earn money.

    As mentioned, SOE, in their deal with Sigil, will not be making any mmorpg, nor will they have any input into how Vanguard is made.  So you can look at this as being a turn for the worse based on past experiences, or look at the potential it offers to Vanguard to become more widely marketed and distributed.

  • PashoPasho Member Posts: 85


    Originally posted by Tymora

    Yes, people have been jaded by SOE, and perhaps they are justified in how they feel.  I know I was pretty upset with SOE after the NGE.  But overall,  SOE has been doing what all other companies are trying to do - make  mmorpgs and earn money.
    As mentioned, SOE, in their deal with Sigil, will not be making any mmorpg, nor will they have any input into how Vanguard is made.  So you can look at this as being a turn for the worse based on past experiences, or look at the potential it offers to Vanguard to become more widely marketed and distributed.


    Yes, SOE is trying to make money as other companies in the field....the BIG, BIG difference between SOE and the other companies,  is the way they do it: Lies, Deception, Treachery and, disregard for the gamers requests and input.

    WAIT until SOE delete your char profession after investing 1 year of gaming time, WAIT until SOE decide to "revamp" your class and trash all your efforts, WAIT until you start getting your posts deleted and yourself banned from them just because you ask what happened to your class, WAIT until you cancel your subscription and you still get charged in your credit card......just WAIT and you will see.

    Brad says that SOE will not have any input in the game?? Pffft!!!!  Didn't he say too, some time ago that he decided to leave SOE because of different visions?? Wasn't he saying that EQ was a different game after he left and SOE took over? ......What do you possibly think would make me think different this time about what says???

    Dont forget the SOE-EXCHANGE servers (money for in-game items)  and BAM!! you have a nice picture of what vanguard will become after one year.

    You dont need to be a future-reader to know what is going to happened: in 1 - 1.5 year Brad will say that he decided to leave SOE in charge of the game, then he will be giving support and then he leaves without a notice to start a new game.

    Sorry man....i won't bite that same trick twice.


  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529
    1. $OE is pure evil and I won't allow one thin dime to go into their pockets.
    2. Brad sold out EQ to $OE once before.
    3. Brad likes Smed. Smed is evil. Brad therefore likes EVIL.
    4. The over/under on $OE totally buying it out is 2 years.



    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • SelothSeloth Member Posts: 388


    Originally posted by Nattik
    I understand there are alot of SOE haters out there that are bad mouthing Vanguard because of the new switch to coproduce with SOE. My question for you all is why? They are not touching the game at all and only doing boxing/shipping/billing/advertising. What effect does that have on the game? Zero. I even look forward to the switch because they have alot of experience in these ares, albeit some good and some bad. Their experience handling many MMORPGs will be usful in minimizing early hickups in their areas. I believe that is a good thing. I understand most peole's worries about how gameplay decisions will be affected by SOE but both parties involved have stated that SOE will not be involved whatsoever with development. I was shocked as anyone else by the news. However, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and realize that it may not be such a bad thing. Give Vanguard and Sigil a chance until they are proven wrong.




    the concern (yes in some cases hatered) it that SoE is going to NOT jsut control the "boxing/shipping/billing/advertising" but also the SERVERS and CUSTOMER SUPPORT. this leaves what could be the best game (SoE  we all agree at this point can not touch the code), totally at the mercy of another company that has not the most customer friendly enviroment.

    Does this make sense to anyone?  It is NOT just the 200k or so disenfranchised swg players. It is also the MxO players that saw the one good thing of thier game die (live events), the people like me that have had to deal with sony's rootkits that are worried. Some call us knee jerking, but face it there is precidence to have a concern about investing time, money and effort into something that is goign to be VERY dependant on SoE and its good will.

  • BlackWhysperBlackWhysper Member Posts: 113


    Originally posted by Nattik
    I understand there are alot of SOE haters out there that are bad mouthing Vanguard because of the new switch to coproduce with SOE. My question for you all is why? They are not touching the game at all and only doing boxing/shipping/billing/advertising. What effect does that have on the game? Zero. I even look forward to the switch because they have alot of experience in these ares, albeit some good and some bad. Their experience handling many MMORPGs will be usful in minimizing early hickups in their areas. I believe that is a good thing. I understand most peole's worries about how gameplay decisions will be affected by SOE but both parties involved have stated that SOE will not be involved whatsoever with development. I was shocked as anyone else by the news. However, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and realize that it may not be such a bad thing. Give Vanguard and Sigil a chance until they are proven wrong.





    I totaly agree with you. But people will still be blowing this up for awhile, b/c thats just the nature of humans, we dont forget and most of us just cant handle change =P (even i can't, but i have come to realize the bigger picture and looked outside the box). But i think people will realize that its a KICK ASS game when it comes out.

  • swiftflowswiftflow Member Posts: 239
    Why can't you SOE crotch sniffers understand that alot of us DO NOT want SOE to profit from our money no matter how small the percentage they take in is. SOE will not get one cent off me and that is non-negotiable.
  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    It is only a matter of time before SOE got their way inside the design room.

    Vanguard is sticking to design choices who are almost as bad as SoR, a game struggling to maintain 3 servers UP.  And to everyone blasting SoR, I will deny you, it is very nice, very well done...it is just poor basic design decisions.  Vanguard is thinking in a similar way, will meet similar results.

    With poor/bad results, Sigil will become unable to maintain their half of the billing, they will sell to SoE every right.  It is only a matter of time.

    Unless Brad start to really think over the non-raiding server on a serious basic, the scenario above will happen in less than 2 years.

    But all this is soooo irrelevant, do you realize that with Bioware coming out, even WoW will have issues to maintain reasonable profits vs. expense?  Most companies making MMOs are in for some reality check, in a few years, when a real RPG company release a MMORPG...brace yourself...it is going to rock!    See, while most MMOs companies are struggling over basic concepts, like not screwing someone who doesn't 'insert random end-game for this game', Bioware is well aware of such flaws and working on REAL addictive and FUN aspects, they master the basics!  BIOWARE is going to change the MMORPG world, forever.  Behold true devs at work! 

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • BissrokBissrok Member Posts: 1,002
    It's not that I think SOE will screw up the game. It's that I hate SOE and I don't want to spend money on anything associated with them.

  • BlackWhysperBlackWhysper Member Posts: 113


    Originally posted by swiftflow
    Why can't you SOE crotch sniffers understand that alot of us DO NOT want SOE to profit from our money no matter how small the percentage they take in is. SOE will not get one cent off me and that is non-negotiable.


    I'm talking about the people who keep bringing it up on the forums and blowing it up. I totaly understand if you do not want to play b/c of SOE, thats your choice and I respect that. lol SOE crotch sniffers, nice one

  • angerrangerr Member Posts: 865


    Originally posted by Anofalye
    It is only a matter of time before SOE got their way inside the design room.Vanguard is sticking to design choices who are almost as bad as SoR, a game struggling to maintain 3 servers UP.  And to everyone blasting SoR, I will deny you, it is very nice, very well done...it is just poor basic design decisions.  Vanguard is thinking in a similar way, will meet similar results.With poor/bad results, Sigil will become unable to maintain their half of the billing, they will sell to SoE every right.  It is only a matter of time.Unless Brad start to really think over the non-raiding server on a serious basic, the scenario above will happen in less than 2 years.

    oh its because of the raiding that vanguard will fail in two years? shhh don't tell blizzard that *rolls eyes*

    what a tired argument...

    image

    read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433


    Originally posted by angerr



    oh its because of the raiding that vanguard will fail in two years? shhh don't tell blizzard that *rolls eyes*
    what a tired argument...



    See, most MMOs are struggling over such basics concept!  A joke.

    Check and behold for BIOWARE!  They will rake that market, rightfully!

    I am pretty sure that Blizzard regrets those raiding choices now (or will the next time they release ANY game)...but it is too late, they can't turn back now.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • dragonacedragonace Member UncommonPosts: 1,185


    Originally posted by Seloth

    the concern (yes in some cases hatered) it that SoE is going to NOT jsut control the "boxing/shipping/billing/advertising" but also the SERVERS and CUSTOMER SUPPORT...

    Actually the press release said SOE would be in charge of TECHNICAL support - Sigil is still in charge of CUSTOMER support. Also by being co-publisher Sigil has "greater control" of things like boxing and advertising. Just thought I would point that out.

    Here's the quote:
    "As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan."

  • cumbomcumbom Member CommonPosts: 544


    Originally posted by Shayde
    2. Brad sold out EQ to $OE once before.


    QFE

    SWG RIP
    moctodumegws
    Can't WAIT!

  • angerrangerr Member Posts: 865


    Originally posted by Anofalye

    Originally posted by angerr
    oh its because of the raiding that vanguard will fail in two years? shhh don't tell blizzard that *rolls eyes*
    what a tired argument...See, most MMOs are struggling over such basics concept!  A joke.Check and behold for BIOWARE!  They will rake that market, rightfully!I am pretty sure that Blizzard regrets those raiding choices now (or will the next time they release ANY game)...but it is too late, they can't turn back now.

    i hope for your sake Anofalye, bioware makes the game or a server you want with no raiding. god knows after making 2k posts about raiding you deserve it lol.

    i actually would want to play a game like that as well, but at the same time I'm not going to shoot other games down because they do have raiding. i am one of those gamers that just likes to have fun, i don't need to be the best or have the best items.

    i played eq on a teams pvp server where all other big guilds cheated and cross teamed besides my guild and a few others. yeah i was at a huge disadvantage and got killed alot, but i still had fun and that is all that matters to me.

    with or without raids i will play a game if it sounds fun, even if that means being at a disadvantage...that is just me, i kind of like being the underdog anyways......::::02::

    image

    read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....

  • zethcarnzethcarn Member UncommonPosts: 1,558


    Originally posted by swiftflow
    Why can't you SOE crotch sniffers understand that alot of us DO NOT want SOE to profit from our money no matter how small the percentage they take in is. SOE will not get one cent off me and that is non-negotiable.

    Well why can't you understand that most people following this game support Sigil,  not SOE?  Also you act like SOE is the only bad company that makes poorly, under-developed games for fast cash.  How about EA??  Anyway I could care less if you don't play.

    The door's that way -----------------------> 

    you won't be missed.

  • HarafnirHarafnir Member UncommonPosts: 1,350

    I completly understand your willingness to finance a company that only see you as a cashcow, where you have no rights or any influence and all they want is for you to shut up and give them your money, no matter if they deliver the product you wanted or not...

    You and your kind is the only reason things like the Home Shopping Network is as succesful as it is. Just normal victims and suckers that are willing to pay for anything, satisfied or not does not matter.

    Lucky us.. we are not you. Some people actually demand somehting in return. When a company, not only fails, but refuse to deliver... we stop our payments. If someone has not been able to give anyhting back for the last 8 years, and suddenly run in and once again and want to sell you things, well...

    I know, way too advanced concept for you to understand... now go bid on that nosehair trimmer and be quiet.

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • TymoraTymora Member UncommonPosts: 1,295


    Originally posted by swiftflow
    Why can't you SOE crotch sniffers understand that alot of us DO NOT want SOE to profit from our money no matter how small the percentage they take in is. SOE will not get one cent off me and that is non-negotiable.

    If you were interested in Vanguard and can't somehow find it in yourself to get past your hatred for SOE, then that's too bad.  There are plenty of other mmorpgs out there, and many more to come.  There will be a game for everyone. 

    I've been playing SOE games for years and never had a bad experience until the NGE.  I've seen other companies make mistakes, although not as huge.  Nothing has been so bad that I would avoid a game from a company, even Funcom after Anarchy Online was released still has my respect, because they've showed that they can make things right.  SOE still has a place in the mmorpg market, and maybe they will make up for their mistakes.  Maybe teaming with Sigil will be a positive thing for them and for the players who are still looking forward to playing Vanguard.  So all I can say is go your own way and we'll go ours. 

  • zethcarnzethcarn Member UncommonPosts: 1,558


    Originally posted by Harafnir

    I completly understand your willingness to finance a company that only see you as a cashcow, where you have no rights or any influence and all they want is for you to shut up and give them your money, no matter if they deliver the product you wanted or not...
    You and your kind is the only reason things like the Home Shopping Network is as succesful as it is. Just normal victims and suckers that are willing to pay for anything, satisfied or not does not matter.
    Lucky us.. we are not you. Some people actually demand somehting in return. When a company, not only fails, but refuse to deliver... we stop our payments. If someone has not been able to give anyhting back for the last 8 years, and suddenly run in and once again and want to sell you things, well...
    I know, way too advanced concept for you to understand... now go bid on that nosehair trimmer and be quiet.


    Well you just described 95% of ALL the game companies in current existence,  most of which produce UTTER CRAP for games in my opinion.  I'm curious to know which game(s) you play so maybe I can start bashing you for playing them,  sounds like fun.  Of all the games in development,  I only plan on buying Warhammer Online,  Vanguard, and MAYBE Age of Conan.  
  • SelothSeloth Member Posts: 388


    Originally posted by dragonace


    Originally posted by Seloth

    the concern (yes in some cases hatered) it that SoE is going to NOT jsut control the "boxing/shipping/billing/advertising" but also the SERVERS and CUSTOMER SUPPORT...

    Actually the press release said SOE would be in charge of TECHNICAL support - Sigil is still in charge of CUSTOMER support. Also by being co-publisher Sigil has "greater control" of things like boxing and advertising. Just thought I would point that out.

    Here's the quote:
    "As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan."


    Thank you for correcting me,

    I think that is going to be a mess to be honest. Sigil is goign to have to answer if the servers, billing, or account issues come up from SoE.  That or play the "hey now our fault game, go talk to tech support."

  • dragonacedragonace Member UncommonPosts: 1,185

    I definitely agree with you there Seloth.

    I hope that they have the server thing nailed down. We all know that players will complain "in-game" about server issues. So does that make it a Customer Support issue or a Technical Support issue? I really couldn't tell you how they will handle that, but I sure hope it's not the standard "It's not me, it's them" answer.

    That really would spell trouble for them. But, that is quite a ways down the road; so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they are working on a good solution for just that scenario.

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