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Fun PVP ,Finally!
GeritolX
Member Posts: 14
I've not played DAoC that much ,but the praise is everywhere on how they actually made PVP fun and/or exciting .The only real game that I've contributed any real time to PVP is WoW and it is to say the least ,drudgery.The other MMO's I've played "CoV,CoH,GW,EVE,AA,DDO,EQ2,L2,RFO,ROSEonline"I either did'nt care for it's PVP system or never got into the PvP part or It just didn't have PVP .I really never got to enjoy DAoC's PVP due to the fact I did'nt play very long, I don't know why I didn't play very long,other than I'd just got out of WoW and did'nt know if I really wanted to start all over again on another game,so I slowed down in the MMO area,especially since RFO let me down to.WAR has me excited,a game made to make you feel like your apart of something and from a veteran company of well named MMO's, who don't make you cringe at the word PVP......I am hopefull,for me the word PVP gives me a pain right between my eyes; either its boring ,or gank city with no profit just loss and repitition.
If you keep picking at it ,it won't heal.
Comments
DaoC's problem was that RvR was mostly a endgame affair. they introduced battlegrounds at a certain points and they almost stole the spotlight from the actual RvR as they were much more immediate and "instant" fun. So much that certain players just choose to remain at the level for the last battleground just because.
Its other problem was that getting to the endgame wasn't a particular appealing process. the PvE wasn't the worse, but wasn't anything special. Especially, classes felt a bit limited as skill progression was quite slow.
Now it seems they learned from their mistakes. Can't say about the slow PvE progression, but they removed "endgame" from RvR. It is surely still there, at the end, but is now also at the beginning.
In addition, they learned from the battlegrounds, both theirs and Wow's, and build scenarios... withouth (hopefully!) remove the importance of World PvP. So, in theory, you get best of both (3?) worlds.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
DAoC never made RvR for lvl 50 players only... The players did that to themselves. When it first released you would commonly see lvl 30ish people skimishing in the frontiers. As a number of people got to lvl 50, the players simply implemented the fact, that you need to be "yellow con" in order to PvP in the frontiers (when I left you needed to be 50 or probably couldn't get a group).
My guess it that mythic assumed people would lvl/pvp in there own frontier lvl 30+ and then lvl 50s would be the attackers. To my knowledge at release there were only 2 places you could find lvl 40+ mobs, the frontier and then the lvl 40ish dungeon. They later added in areas that were 40+ that held the Epic Armor quests.
As far as leveling speed, it was fine. They dumbed it down to uber fast in the present build. But even 6months after release lvling felt even paced to me. Soling was hell. But if you were able to join a server not that long after it's release you could find full groups from 1-50 easily. The main problem with lvling arose after the main wave of lvling died off. Anyone joining a server 1 year after it open would be pained by the difficultity of finding a group of solo grinding. I know as a caster at times when your "in between spells" (you get a new damage spell about every 7 lvls so, at lvl 6 your crying your damage is so wimpy, but once you tick over your uber vs even cons for a few lvls) you'd be crying, that is one reason grouping made things seem to group much faster.
Lvling didn't feel painful until 43+... Don't ask me why 43. But that is the point from which I'd drop from at least 1lvl a day to .5 a lvl a day. However, I did like the lose EXP when you died deal. I weeded out all the idiot players from reaching 50 and ending up in my groups. Face it, in a game like WoW a 6year old can eventually hit lvl 60. Even if they are only able to kill 1 mob before they die. Kill 1 mob, die, kill 1 mob, die, IN TIME they will still hit lvl 60 in WoW. In DAoC a person would never make it to 50. You probably need to be able to kill 150mobs without dieing, that causes player to play slower and more maturely. How often in DAoC does some idoit run off and agro half the dungeon compared to WoW. I liked that descriminating factor.
The only battleground the ever seemed to be busy to me was the 20-25 one. It was tons of fun though, exspecially as a steathler before they put in the destealth when you attack code... Use to be if you 1shot someone you'd remain steathed. A Mid shadowblade packing a certain axe could even 1shot armsmen unless there gear was up to date.
I don't think DAoC downfall had anything to do with it's RvR. DAoC downfall start rolling when they release the ToA xpack. Getting to end game RvR did take time, but it made it feel meaningful once you got there. ToA basicacly resulted in everyone that was 50 and RvRing to have to go back and do some insanely annoying and long PvE quests in order to stay "up to date." Face it if a developer puts in a item that is better then you have, and all it takes to get it time, your expected to get it. Thus you old set up becomes obsolet and your forced to go quest to get the new better gear, or suffer a disadvantage when facing people that do have it. After the first wave of people doing ToA in became incredibilty hard to find a group to do the quests with. This is when I left the game. I spent tons of time lvling, tons of time grinding gold to get a perfect spellcrafting set. Relax, now I can PvP at my own pace, I have the best of everything yay. Then it comes out saying, if you want this new stuff, you have to do all these multi hour raids. I'm not talking items here, I'm talking skills. Do ToA and you can become invicible for 15seconds, don't do it and you don't get that skill.
ToA sucked, and wasn't what the majority of players wanted.... Numbers started dropping... Point is proven by the fact the Mythic recently released "classic servers" which don't have ToA skill and items on them. Go to the DAoC boards, most of the people there are saying something like "They have classic servers now, come on back." The change just came too late, the population numbers dropped too far and people moved on to other games. The fact that people paid $20+ dollar for an xpac and would rather play the game without it, shows how much players disliked the changes ToA brought.
I have a lot of confidence in this game. I never played the tabletop version, but I have faith in mythic. This game is going to be amazing.
Most games PvP gets boring quickly. The only two games I really stuck to once I got higher level were DAoC and Shadowbane. I quit DAoC because I think buff-bots killed it. I quit SB because of the crappy servers.
Supposedly, you can PvP from 1-max level. You gain xp from killing other players. I love this idea, and I can't wait.
These two things tell me all I need to know in order to be very optimistic about WAR!
Well put and all very true.
The expansion packs ruined DAOC, as did Jewel Crafting. It was difficult for Mythic because they released an unfinished game in the begining. Jewel Crafting helped balance out the crafting system, but in turn ruined the "magic items" trade for people like myself, who would sell gear to buy potions and arrows, poisons, etc.
I remember when the only dungeon that had drops off mobs was Mithras Tomb. It was also a blast in the frontier in the early days, just a bunch of lvl 20's and 30's running around, chopping each other to bits and trying to take Dun Crauchon. Relic raids were a blast, although quite laggy, with the new graphic style it should help cut back on lag, as well as other new gen technology.
My last thought is on leveling. At the time, in DAOC, it felt that the grind took forever, but it was well worth it. I remember taking my first cahracter to 50, i was so freggin happy. It felt like I actually accomplished something, and the icing on the cake was getting my level 50 MErc suit of armor.(which basically became a waste of time when they implemented jewel crafting). The problem with may of the newer games like Wow etc.. is that leveling is too fast. You don't feel like you've accomplished anything when you had gotten lvl 60 in 2 months. In the time it took me to get 50 in DAOC i think i had 3 or so 60's in WoW. It will be a shame if Mythic makes the leveling equally as fast to other newer titles.
Well I heard that WAR is about 80% RvR and 20% PvE but yes, you can enjoy the PvE in WAR without doing PvP/RvR, tho I dont advice it since it's the heart of the whole game. If you dont enjoy doing PvP/RvR then I dont recommend you getting WAR.
I feel the opposite way; I want absolutely no sense of 'accomplishment' for being bored in what's allegedly a game, and hope they don't force you to do a bunch of boring crap to play the real game. Everyone talks about how great the level 50 RVR is in DAOC, but what I discovered when I tried the game was that the PVE to get there was just plain boring. According to some people on the DAOC forums here, it takes about 120 hours of gameplay to get a character to level 50. However good the gameplay at level 50 is in DAOC there is no way it is worth 3 grand (3 full-time weeks of work) for me to try.
I don't care about the arbitrary level marker, or 'hitting the level cap', but I do play games for entertainment, not boredom. If you need to be level 50 to get into the fun part of the game, then there better be a /level 50 command because I'm not going to pay money to be bored. Oddly, I wished the leveling in WOW was slow for the opposite reason - the fun part of WOW for me was going from 1-60, the game at 60 was the part I didn't like.
OTOH, from what I've heard they've solved the problem here - you should be able to engage in PVP from the very start of the game, and can level and gear up entirely (or pretty much entirely) from the RVR fighting that's going to provide the core gameplay. In that case, who cares if it takes a long time to reach the level cap? They could pretty much make it take whatever time they feel like and I'd be fine with it, since I wouldn't have to do work to get to the fun part of the game.