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Why won't anyone make this kind of MMO?
Mihos
Member Posts: 24
Here's the list of requirements for a MMO I feel *needs* to be produced:
1. Monsters do not give experience. Instead they exist as pseudoPCs, congregating into societies, leveling up from killing real people, raiding settlements ect. The higher a monsters level the better item quality of what they drop.
2. There are no friendly NPC cities save the ones the players themselves build. This building process would be similar to a Real Time Strategy. A player gains money, purchases materials from various lumber yards or what have you, hires workers and builds a city.
3. There are no predetermined factions. Everyone in the game is a possible hostile target. Guilds will form and allegiances will be made.
4. Every player city that is created can be sieged, pillaged and destroyed. Guilds can be annhiliated by destroying all settlements affiliated with that guild.
5. Experience is gained by completing quests given by a city leader. IE. "Raid Guild Cheesehead's Lumber yard (500xp for its destruction). Experience is also gained by defeating other players in combat.
6. Developers follow along with the game progression on the server. Periodic updates are made to reflect the ongoing situations the players have created for themselves. For example, if a huge guild makes its way into power and has declared genocide upon a certain race, that race may be temporarily disabled as an available choice for new players, to reflect their dwindling numbers. Or perhaps a special "bonus to hide" would be given to that race, because they are getting good at trying to evade this overwhelming guild.
7. Finally, from time to time, developers will have world quests. These quests are available for completion a single time, they affect the entire world and are very important. They may give a chance for a smaller guild to rise up against an older guild that has become something unstoppable and thus tip the game back into conflict.
8. There will be no classes. This is a skill based game. You have a limited number of skill point allotments. Hitpoints, Magic Power, Skills and Spells are increased based on use, and capped along with your current level, which can only be increased through experience detailed above.
9. The game would be advanced enough to allow for more "twitch" style gaming. You can jump out of the way of fireballs or arrows. To block you have to lift your shield ect ect. Dice roll combat is best left for the top of a table.
10. All items can be lost, stolen, looted or destroyed. However realism is taken into affect. A rogue can't steal the full plate off of your back as you stand there, but may be able to pick your pocket. If you are killed by another player, removing all of your clothes and items would take a period of time. (10 minutes or more to remove a full set of armor ect)
I know it's a long post, but if someone would develop this game, I would play it until the servers were shut down or the world ended. Alas, it doesn't seem like producers realize there would be a huge market for this kind of game. Perhaps one day.
Comments
Sounds good to me, some things could be problematic but the general ideas/themes are great.
All in all it sounds a lot like Darkfall.
Pretty much the type of mmo I would love to play.
Tired of the old EQ combat system.
Tired of nearly all mmorpgs being level based instead of skill..
A game with a combat system simular to d&d online MINUS THE DICE ROLLS would rock. No miss, block, reposte, fumble, fizzle or whatever decided by random numbers. If you swing your weapon or cast a spell and it makes contact with the target, unless the target manually blocks or gets the hell out of the way or has some type of magical barrier it gets hit. nuff said!
And for the love of god NO CON SYSTEM!! Hows about a system where size actually counts. Your not gonna go kill that elephant or giant all by yourself unless you have some buddies with you or your fast enough to avoid its attacks.
See an enemy player you want to kill, you better take a good look at the kind of gear he has and decide if you really want to take him on.
I just want something new to put an end to all the EQ clone wars.
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
cuz when Devs see WoW so successful they think, by making the exact same game, they will have 5mil subscribers...
Great idea but how dyou know 1 guild wont rule all :P
I think they forget that the money is made in the long haul apposed to getting that quick buck. They spend so much on these games, its hard to keep the long term prospect in check.
Executive A: We have spent million's on this game we want payback now!
Dev A: Hey wait a minute dont you realize keeping 5 million customer's for 5 years is better than 1 million for 2 months?
Executive B: No, I want money now, gimme, gimme, gimme!!!!!
Dev B: Okay thanks for ruining our reputation.
Executive C: You long term thinking fool!
Dev C: Hi, ive just been hired to raise this sinking ship. Too bad you all have moved on and now hate us for being morons.
Congratz on your great buisness sense!
Sounds Good
411 W1LL F34R JBUNNY!
Sounds like you have a lot of great ideas there. I would love to play a game like this....especially the whole monsters lvl too think and the "twitch" system. I'm game if you can ever get some developers to do it....
But I have a few complaints/comments though....
It would be easy for a large group of people to just take over and control everthing (no one would be able to build up an opposition because they could just show up with their large group and take your small new guild down).
I want to see where the skills and levels cap off....I didn't like GW because it just didn't feel like I could do enough with only 8 abilities to use at a time and only reaching a lvl of 20 and such.
Also, with the whole experience only from city leaders thing....kinda boring. I think more experienced players should be able to give out quest to low level ones. Like "get 10 logs" or "collect 5 Pendents of the Sun" or some crap. That way, the higher lvl players can get stuff they need for building/crafting/etc and the lower lvls get the xp they want. (oh...and the amount of xp recieved should be based on the program calculating the difficulty of the task)
With no friendly NPCs....how would new players be able to get good gear fast? I have no doubt that players who have been in the game longer would make a highly inflated economy with out NPC mercents keeping prices somewhat low and reasonable.
If the looting dead body system does happen (which would be cool and annoying at the same time...try Tibia), then how would the rezing part work? Would you default to a graveyard and have to run to your body like WoW? Would you just have a time penalty?....I think it would be fun (and probably a little less repetative) if you had to play some mini-game that you had to finish before you could rez. That way it is skill based and not just how fast you can get to your body.
Where would the lumber yard to start a new city be..?
The only idea I really think is bad in there is the guild-destruction thing. Otherwise it sounds like a PVP game (kind of like shadowbane without the relatively dull xp grind and newbie area). Guilds are social organizations, not just gameplay ones. I can understand being able to destroy their city but it sounds like you're suggesting that they'd have to completely regather their members and re-form. That seems like heaping insult on top of injury.
The monster hunting thing could work if the drops are common. Otherwise it seems to me that you're replacing an XP grind with a perpetual item grind. Personally, I dislike rare item hunting a lot more than XP grinding.
I've proposed something similar, so I'd like to see a game like this made as well.
One difference is that it's too PvP-intense for me. EVE Online has a number of the same features, but the constant competition for every little thing is just exhausting.
Just as another data point, I'd be a lot more interested in a game like you described if it also had the following features:
Now that would be a game that satisfies both those who want to "play in" a world as well as those who like to "live in" a game world.
--Flatfingers
They did, it was called Shadowbane. It's closing on May 15th (or so we think)
To the original poster, check this game out:
www.darkfallonline.com
Love,
Vyre
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
That would be a shame, I haven't had a chance to do much in it yet. I wish there was a really definitive reason behind SB's apparent collapse. The only thing I've been able to garner with any certainty is that the population went low and stayed that way. One lesson to take away would be that you need a decent population density when you rely on player interactions, though.
Inital bugs, then when they were mostly fixed it was dated graphics. While open pvp sounds good on paper, people tend to change their toon when their city they spent so much time and gold is destroyed in the course of a night. It's not for everyone.
Those reasons and that UBIsoft is the devil, about sums up SB's problems.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I appreciate all of the feedback. To the two posters who suggested Darkfall, thank you. I've been following the game for awhile now and anxiously await its fate. The presence of the game at E3 gives me hope that it isn't just vaporwear. On another note I wish their PR skills were a little more professional. I personally believe a lot of what World of Warcraft has achieved today was due to how well they promoted their game (and how their company promoted itself) before its release.
As for other comments, they were all very constructive. Perhaps one day a truely player-driven game will be created. Because honestly no company can ever create satisfactory "end-game" content without giving the tools of the world to the players and letting them change their own environment.
What MMORPGs today need is a progressive environment. With most MMORPGs today, nothing your character does has any lasting effect on the game world as a whole. This in my opinion is the downfall of these games.
So it really comes down to dynamic vs static gaming environments. I am very very tired of static environments. I see hope though with games like Darkfall. Warhammer would be nice if the factions weren't artificial (another example of stasis). It is so silly that I cannot talk to my enemy, have discussions and maybe make the choice for myself that I'm on the wrong side. That's the heart of roleplaying right? Making choices for your character. The game that does that in every capacity, will dominate the market.
Wow. (Note that the second 'w' is not capital, so I can't be talking about the game).
This is where I will be going. I have a strong preference for dangerous danger, and you better understand what that means. Danger as something uncommon, and meaningful - that you would generally benefit from avoiding. I don't want huge rewards (ie. unique items that make no sense) for exposing yourself to danger. (No swords, shields or money dropping from unarmed beasts that have no interesting in purchasing apples at the local market)
I'd like a few hard to kill, occasionally appearing monsters that will more likely be driven back than killed - when they make their appearance at all. And if they are killed (sought out in their lair, or destroyed while plaguing humans) they do not come back. The motivation for killing the monster is not XP, it is not the inconceivable presence of a blessed sword in its tummy, it is the fact that this monster will never again slay a citizen of your hometown - and you are officially a real hero. (That might hold its own rewards, because people will remember what you did for them)
Of course, this doesn't work unless dying is a bad thing. A truly bad thing for your character.
I'm waiting for Adellion myself, but in that game there will be no monsters as such - at all. Only animals, and they are primarily hunting targets, not threats.
Twitch, stat based, hybrid... I'm no huge fan of twitch myself - but would like to see that armour slowed you down so that wearing a full plate and trotting about on foot would prove a really bad idea. You can't flee a battlefield in that armour, too slow. If you're by yourself, a single archer can shoot you, run away (or keep up with your miserable attempt at fleeing) and shoot again until you - eventually, croak.
For that to be meaningful you would have to make equip / unequip take time and concentration. If you insist on taking your full plate off while being pelted with arrows, you'll have to stand still while the archer can keep shooting, until you're actually out of it. Even if there are rolls to hit, you should have no chance of evading an attack while getting out of a full plate.
So I am looking for tactical positioning, equipment, troop combinations.
The french once lost to the english because of strategical folly. An enclosed battlefield, the english longbowmen on the narrow end, french riders on the wider end. The french charge, the english fire. The french get trouble with lack of space, and with fallen allies in their way.
I'm not sure the french even made it to the archer lines that day. And I want useless strategy to be the most crippling element of warfare.
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
I agree, this is closest to what you described. Do go check it out.
Great ideas; some of them I've had myself. My poll answer reflected that I'd rather have some NPC cities. NPC's can be very useful in flavoring the game play experience and, for me, lead to better immersion. It would be cool, though, to either be able to gradually replace NPC roles in a pre-established city (where your faction is the same as the city's NPC's), or to wage siege war against an NPC city to acquire that territory for your guild.
Perhaps, if the players wanted to be in charge of something of there own, rather then a guild, there could be gangs, which is just groups of people within guilds, gang leaders couldn't actually assign missions for xp, but could lead operations for guilds or start rebellions, I believe gangs would play a big role in the community.
I think specific jobs should be assigned to players from guilds as well, such as guards, defense, soldiers to wage war and such. I realize this would be too much for one guild leader (gm) to handle, so much of this would be automaticly assigned. There would also have to be a system for training new players, and of course low levels wouldn't start out with an important role in the city, they would have to build up there reliability and reputation to the guild and/or faction leaders.
Other planes of existance would also be very important, once you get to a certain level its time to leave behind your old world, you have higher matters to attend to. This is where the true elites would go, and it would be ran directly by the factions, or even better yet, since this would be a small group, a united good and evil faction, through this sytem higher level characters could obtain angellic or demonic abilities. If the higher level players could only gain experience from going to the higher planes, then they would have no reason to stay back and interfere with the lower level players. And, if they refuse to do as they're told by the faction leaders, then they would be dubbed renegades, and of course, be hunted down. This would definitly put SOME sense of order to the game.
Overall, great idea.