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I like the NGE
Squidi
Member Posts: 419
I think the NGE was a necessary step for SWG to make. The game was getting progressively emptier. Sure the NGE hurried that process, but it was already in play. People complain about how much they've lost, but it is still far less than they would've lost if SOE had been forced to shut down SWG. They had a buggy game where the number of people leaving outnumbered those new people coming in. It was hemorraging, and for a genre where the decade old Everquest is still releasing new expansions, that was a bad thing - especially in light of the overwhelmingly popular license.
A change was coming. It had to. The question is whether that change could've been something smaller than the admittedly significant NGE changes. It is impossible to know for sure, but I think they made the right decision to dump a lot of legacy elements which made the game too complicated - stuff like different types of xp (some of which was no longer used, like apprentice xp) or combine professions which very few people played, like Chef or Droid Engineer or many of the melee professions. When it comes down to it, most people wanted to play one of the heroic combat classes and only dabbled in the other combat professions when they were unbalanced and powerful like TKM or to augment their core heroic class. I think they took out a lot of freedom in the game with the intent of adding it back in later under a more suitable guise.
I think they broke the news of the NGE poorly. It was too soon after the CU, which had already embittered many players who were just then getting back into the game after six months. They did it a day after a new expansion hit without telling anyone who bought the expansion about it. And they made significant changes to the game without even making a half assed attempt at feedback, leading many players to blame SOE for not wanting to listen to them. If they screwed up anything, it's how the NGE was brought to the players, forgetting that the internet never forgives or forgets.
Regardless of how the NGE was broached, the changes themselves were not nearly as bad as people would like to make them out to be. They were buggy to begin with, but they've made a special effort to include the players in the design process, focused much of their efforts on bug fixes, and have generally gone to lengths to communicate their ideas well in advance of implementing them. What was once unplayable is now quite playable and even enjoyable to some and it's getting better. If the stuff on Test Center 2 is any indication, the combat will be far more agreeable to most people soon enough.
Whatever you thought of SOE or the NGE, the fact remains is that they are making it better. The game is improving day by day and much of the stuff you loved about SWG is not lost forever. It's time to put differences aside and let go. Either move on to some other game, or come back to SWG and give it a fair chance without your self importance dictating what you believe the game owes you. It's been six months and it's time to let the grudge go and allow new players a fair shake at enjoying that which is actually there rather than smacking them repeatedly over the head with that they never played and will never play.
A change was coming. It had to. The question is whether that change could've been something smaller than the admittedly significant NGE changes. It is impossible to know for sure, but I think they made the right decision to dump a lot of legacy elements which made the game too complicated - stuff like different types of xp (some of which was no longer used, like apprentice xp) or combine professions which very few people played, like Chef or Droid Engineer or many of the melee professions. When it comes down to it, most people wanted to play one of the heroic combat classes and only dabbled in the other combat professions when they were unbalanced and powerful like TKM or to augment their core heroic class. I think they took out a lot of freedom in the game with the intent of adding it back in later under a more suitable guise.
I think they broke the news of the NGE poorly. It was too soon after the CU, which had already embittered many players who were just then getting back into the game after six months. They did it a day after a new expansion hit without telling anyone who bought the expansion about it. And they made significant changes to the game without even making a half assed attempt at feedback, leading many players to blame SOE for not wanting to listen to them. If they screwed up anything, it's how the NGE was brought to the players, forgetting that the internet never forgives or forgets.
Regardless of how the NGE was broached, the changes themselves were not nearly as bad as people would like to make them out to be. They were buggy to begin with, but they've made a special effort to include the players in the design process, focused much of their efforts on bug fixes, and have generally gone to lengths to communicate their ideas well in advance of implementing them. What was once unplayable is now quite playable and even enjoyable to some and it's getting better. If the stuff on Test Center 2 is any indication, the combat will be far more agreeable to most people soon enough.
Whatever you thought of SOE or the NGE, the fact remains is that they are making it better. The game is improving day by day and much of the stuff you loved about SWG is not lost forever. It's time to put differences aside and let go. Either move on to some other game, or come back to SWG and give it a fair chance without your self importance dictating what you believe the game owes you. It's been six months and it's time to let the grudge go and allow new players a fair shake at enjoying that which is actually there rather than smacking them repeatedly over the head with that they never played and will never play.
Comments
To me, this is the definition of a shutdown. Nothing, that once was, anymore is.
Yes, some people subscribed, started over, play the NGE.
Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided has shut down on April 27th, 2005.
What you are advertising for, is another game, one that has absolutely nothing in common with SWG, except for part of the name. Nothing more.
They didn't really need the nge for that.. they needed to fix the damn bugs in game.. much as they seem to be more focused on now then ever before, I kept breaking off to play other stuff because even after 1.5-2 years my Carbineer/Squadleader STILL killed himself faster then the enemy could
That the change could have been smaller is no longer even remotely in doubt evidenced by the sheer amount of things they are bringing back into the game that were removed by the nge.
Agreed on the fact that the announced changes and launch were so far beyond being pisspoor that they drifted into the realm of criminal (thus the reason for the refund offered for the expansion.. bait and switch are not your friend in court
).
That effort only came about due to the HUGE backlash they faced not just from the players but from every media outlet that even brushes on computer gaming.
Yes the patch on TC right now shows a great deal of promise.. I like it and you can see in it what many people have been asking for since the nge launched.
TC patched combat is currently a blend of NGE/CU/PRE-CU combat.
NGE provides mouse over targetting and player initiated attacks, and level based weapon variations
CU provides level modifiers, special move cooldowns, tough to kill npc/mobs
PRE-CU provides weapon speed/damage/type modifiers, Armour resistance modifiers, Kneeling/Prone defensive modifiers.
To me right now it looks like they are finally listening at least a little to the voices of reason that have been calling for a blending of the best parts of all 3. I am unsure how happy many of those that have come to love soloing npcs/mobs that are more then double their level are going to be finding out that 3 level 80 graul can incap a level 90 player, but to me the return of challenge is long overdue.
I am playing other games, but im going to enjoy these forums by talking about the game i used to love with people who understand. I dont know why you are under the impression that we are not allowing new players to enjoy the game. We are not physically making anyone read nor adhere to our opinions. We are not physically stopping someone from subscribing or logging in. Whatever they take away from reading these forums is up to them entirely. It is up to them entirely to even READ these forums. You act like this place is part of the subscription.
For the Horde!
Smedley said it best. They couldnt figure out how to fix the code. But instead of hiring people who know or redesigning from the ground up they cut out the major problems completely. Like amputating your arms and legs because you walked through a field of rose bushes. Basically they were too incompetant to do the job so they took the easy way out. But its come back to bite them in the rump. They thought having "Star Wars" in the title would keep the majority playing. It didnt. And now they are scrambling with even worse ideas like this restuss thing in hopes it will save the game.
Kai
SWG died with the CU. It will be reborn with the return of pre-cu servers.
I believe the current game is total poop and it is a mystery why someone would play it. But this is my opinion, yours may differ.
SWG is still there. You can still live in player cities, decorate your house, ride your vehicles over great expanses, visit Jabba's Palace, craft, become a merchant, yell outside of starports, dance in cantinas, fly through space, and take missions from terminals. They've changed a few details about these things, and admittedly not always for the better, but it's still the same game. They've ever added quite a bit to it as well.
True the game was loosing people during pre cu.. And also during CU... I would wager that once the NGE hit it was like lemming off a cliff, and this confused SOE as to why they went from loosing people on a steady basis to a HUGE drop off. I would guess that instead of loosing any more people they decided the best course of action was to keep the NGE and try to fix that as the game they wanted (imho a bad choice.. but hind sight is 20/20).
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
As of 3/24/2006, the NGE was still losing net subscriptions (losing more than they were adding new). This is a proven fact as stated by the president of SOE. Using the same logic, the NGE has been "getting progressively emptier" for two thirds of it's lifetime. Since the CU only lasted for 6 months as well, doesn't this mean that the NGE has failed and needs to be changed? I personall don't think so, but according to your statement, it should be.
The NGE brought about changes that I didn't like. The changes were extensive enough for me to cancel my account. Effectively for me, this means that SWG was shut down. Therefore it is not "far less than [I] would've lost if SOE had been forced to shut down SWG." Actually, this is worse. If SOE had been forced to shut down SWG, there might have been another company willing to take up SWG instead. Now there is little hope of that happening.
Expansions were still being released in the CU. Only since the NGE has come out has SOE been forced to stop releasing expansions. Therefore, in the last part of that quoted statement, the NGE is "a bad thing"
Yes a change had to come. Change is inherrent in all functioning MMORPGs. Yes, it is impossible to know for sure if the devs had decided to stick with the CU that was only a half a year old, wether or not it could have succeeded.
One of the major complaints against the NGE is that players liked the more complicated system. I will admit that not all did. Combining, or removing, the professions seems to have harmed the game more than helped it. This was what was wrong with the developers in the first place. They focused on two professions more than any other. If they had instead spent time on professions that weren't being played as much, they might have encouraged people to play those instead. However, this is now a moot point since it is impossible to go back in time to prove or disprove this theory.
Regarding the "heroic" class. Throughout most of my gameplay I was in a support role. I liked grouping, even during Pre-CU when many people (myself included) could solo. By catering to the "heroic" ideology, they have essentially killed group play. I would also like to state one thing. Pre-CU I couldn't solo a Krayt dragon (though it was possible, I just had a different template), yet during the NGE and without the "godlike" doctor buffs, I could and did solo a krayt easily. Probably even easier than I could have during the Pre-CU with the right template.
I agree. I most definately agree. This paragraph is the biggest reason why I don't trust SOE (and LA to an extent), and it is my lack of trust for SOE that keeps me from resubscribing to their game.
Four months after the changes, I logged into my trial period. The game was still buggy (specials, non-combat targeting, newly broken quests), and I had lost (completely removed from the game) 4 out of 6 of my professions. I had three toons, a Jedi/CH, a BE/CH and a SL/commando. I would say that the changes were incredibly bad. However, this is my opinion. Yours obviously differs.
I would like to see any post where they actually made a "special effort to include players into the design process." Most likely any post that you can refer to contains devs stating "no, we will not do this, only this" Example is the speed of combat discussion thread by Helios (no link as it is sticked to the gameplay forum). He stated quite clearly, despite a multitude of people asking for it, that they would not revert back to the prior combat system. I would not call this "an effort to include players into the design process." It is more like "an effort to fool players into believing they are part of the design process."
After this you start delving into opinion again. The Pre-CU was not unplayable to me. The CU was not unplayable to me. The NGE is unplayable to me. This is merely an opinion, and yours obviously differs. It may be getting better to you, but to me it is still unplayable. As long as SWG continues it's FPS like system, it will remain unplayable to me. Now, the new combat changes being tested might make the game playable for me, but my distrust of SOE will keep me from resubscribing until they are finished with their beta test. That means that until the expertise system is in place and a GCW revamp has been finished, I will not resubscribe.
No, that is not a fact. That is an opinion. You are entitled to your opinion, but you have provided no facts to me that suggests the game or the company is improving. I am willing to put any differences with you aside, in fact I have no problems with you or anyone else that enjoys paying SOE for an unfinished product. I have seen no reason to trust SOE though, and you have not changed my mind in that regard. I will also not move on either. You see until there is either another Star Wars MMORPG or until SOE hires a competent development team, you are stuck with me. I greatly desire to play a SW MMORPG, but I cannot play SWG as it is now, and especially with the current developing company.
I have never told a new player to avoid SWG. I have warned them of SOE business ethics, and I encourage them to use the free trial before paying a dime. If that isn't a fair shake, then nothing is.
If you have any counterpoints, please feel free to provide them.
Heh. That was fun, I haven't done a good fisking in a long time!
The levels in SWG are an artificial form of content. They're designed (in theory) to guide players from place to place, to experience the different planets worth of content as they level. Thing is, the planets are still practically sans-content. In order for the NGE to be a success, every planet in the game would have to rival Kashyyyk or Mustafar in terms of quests, POIs, and generally cool niches. So, in trying to address a big issue, they failed to acknowledge the smaller ones. This looks even worse in light of the FACT that they were aware of content being a #1 issue for a very long time.
I tend to think that the NGE would've had a better reception if the base game was fully functional for the type of system it wanted (more like wants) to be. The theory behind NGE was and is still good, but its execution alienated many, made the suspicious into the paranoid, and turned many a fan into a flamer.
I am outraged that SOE has the gall to charge you people for the game that the NGE is. They'll continue to do so happily, however, as you express contentment for their incompetence.
More power to you.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Thats super......
I like pizza.
The difference being I have a choice of whether or not to eat it and I get to decide how it is presented to me.
The NGE is like ordering a pepperoni sausage and black olive with extra cheese and getting a Big mac instead. It is especially disheartening considering what they started with WAS pizza. Maybe it wasnt the supreme but I would rather have the plain cheese pizza that at least resembled what I wanted (ie. a star wars universe where I could be anything I wanted) than the big mac I got downgraded to **star warsy Iconic crap**.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
just a more well thought out NGE fanboi..... he posted this to get everyone pissed because the post he made showed he spent time thinking this one out unlike the others. Squidi get a life, if SWG is so great, WHY ARE THERE ONLY 20-30k SUBS??? in all your posts its all bullshit, do everyone a favor and go away.
I DUB THEE, THE WEPPS OF MMORPG.COM
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
NONE of the reasons we were given for the NGE have been resolved by the NGE:
publishes do not come any quicker or more polished.
continues to bleed subscribers even quicker than before
customer support still maddeningly poor
still no GCW (a one time event does not solve this)
no more timesink (imo the key to keeping a subsriber long term) for jedi
no end game content
nothing pertaining to SW lore & cannon in game
could go on all day but time to go home from work.
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
SWG is still there. You can still live in player cities, decorate your house, ride your vehicles over great expanses, visit Jabba's Palace, craft, become a merchant, yell outside of starports, dance in cantinas, fly through space, and take missions from terminals. They've changed a few details about these things, and admittedly not always for the better, but it's still the same game. They've ever added quite a bit to it as well.
90% is a bit high...it's likely the files still exist but are not in use anymore. The game had to move considerably more to client side then it was to facilitate the shooter style of combat...a lot more then 10%
The developers saw the majority running to holocrons as a desire for jedi by the whole. But again they didnt look at the bigger picture. People werent running for holocrons to be jedi. They were running to them for something to do. The monthly story arc was laughable at best. The themeparks at the time gave nothing really useful. And the content in general was non-existent. It was a sandbox game. But even sandbox games need content.
So the developers, thinking jedi was wanted, started devoting more time to them. This dropped time on bigger issues such as smuggling or player bounties or even the GCW. While the majority grinded, the few actually trying to play the game were left wading through the aftermath left by them. The developers didnt care. The more people they could get to grind to jedi was more people guarunteed to pay longer subscription fees. Jedi became the SOE/LEC advert mule.
Then came the JTL. The numbers actually rose again for that. But again another poor implmentation. After you got your master pilot there really was no real use for JTL except as a way to get free travel (not good IMO. The game needed money sinks bad) and getting cash. After a month (the time to master a pilot profession casually I might add) the numbers started dropping again.
If they had never dropped holocrons and stuck to the original plan then people would have just played and the developers would have been able to fix the issues with the code. The players, as a whole, didnt care about jedi. They had been informed it might be a year or more before a jedi showed up. Yes some did try to find the path, like myself, but it was more fun then trying to find it then it was to just grind out X number of professions til you popped.
Now onto the bugs. A hand-me-down buggy engine coupled with a database that couldnt handle the load and you got a recipe for disaster. Vets that were around for launch can tell you about that. 70% of the bugs before NGE could be attributed to the database. The thing wasnt designed to handle the SWG data. Each item in game had a minimum of 8 links to other entries in the database and those entries had links and so on. Basically, everytime the database had to accessed it would take precious moments to call up every single thing on it.
But instead of hiring people that knew what they were doing, replacing the database, and cleaning things up... they opted to just scrap everything they didnt know how to fix. Smedley did say they didnt know how to fix the game and that was alot of things were cut in the NGE. I wish I had the link.
Kai
Pre-Holocron was probably even better...because it was even more mysterious on how to become a Jedi.
Anyway I disagree...people didn't try to become Jedi just to have something to do. People wanted to be Jedi from day 1. It was all the griping at how impossible it was to find the path to Jedi that prompted the devs to implement the hologrind. Then it was the griping of the players at how hard and boring the hologrind was that brought about the villiage. Most new players I met when I asked them what profession they were pursuing said they wanted to be a Jedi.
To me, this is the definition of a shutdown. Nothing, that once was, anymore is.
Yes, some people subscribed, started over, play the NGE.
Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided has shut down on April 27th, 2005.
What you are advertising for, is another game, one that has absolutely nothing in common with SWG, except for part of the name. Nothing more.
-virtual tourist
want your game back?
While I agree with most of your post, I do have a problem with that statement. Actually, by providing other examples, you refute this yourself.
People have their own opinions, that leads them to their own reasons for leaving or staying with a game. There is no one reason for people leaving the game.
What else is there to do with that but getting bored and closing the account?
Now that it's been some 2 years since I closed the account, enough time has passed. I'd still create a new character and start brand new once again.
Too bad SWG has closed down.
-virtual tourist
want your game back?
But that's me. Instead, I could've been smuggling. Or raiding PvP bases (a la DAoC). Or questing. Or any number of other things that SWG never had and (unfortunately) will never have.
Second, yeah, Jedi turned a lot of people (including myself) off once the holocrons entered the picture. But for the longest time, players (again including myself) were enfatuated with the notion of an organic Jedi system. Was it foolish? Sure, in retrospect. But a great many players hounded the Jedi boards posting theories and this and that. That is until the path was revealed, and the flood gates opened.
The stuff that they did add was decent, but they didn't add enough. Arguably, the game shipped with so little content that even their most admirable efforts could not possibly fill the void.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW