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The lost art of PvP.
robbykl1415
Member Posts: 294
Simple question: What game (remotly new) has the best PvP?
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.-
Frank Zappa
Comments
It's actually kind of complex, because people have really different preferences.
DAOC has the best realm vs realm, Guild wars has the easiest to get started in (from what I hear), EVE has the full-loot no safe zone type.
DAoC has the most imbalanced PVP
EVE has the best PVP imho.
http://www.TheGamersAssociation.com
Battlefield 2
Dawn of War
Magic: The Gathering Online
Guild Wars
Counter-Strike Source
Soldat
And one of my favorites from Korea...
War Rock
Honorable mention goes to Gunz: The Duel.
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.-
Frank Zappa
eh.. -.-
EVE is very interesting and different, but bit hardcore, as not all people like losing ship and all modules after death. But it's very good. And you can also say, that is unbalanced, Amarr ships suck (hehe, couldn't resist)
I play both, DAoC and EVE and like both games, but they are very different.
How does your question tie into your topic title?
As far as the "best" I would think it depends what you like and want.
WoW is pretty good if you want to be able to one on one fairly well. All the classes have some degree of PvP ability. This game is built on individual "inclussion". Some goes for GW. Both are pretty straight forward and easy to get get into.
Games like DAoC and L2 are more difficult because they are group centered. This means not all classes will be able to fight effectively but instead have a specific role to play. Teamwork in other words. These types of games tend to leave classes vulnerable in different respects to keep "balance".
Also it depends what you are doing the PvP for in the first place. Games like WOW and GW basically have no dynamic impact on the gameworld. Players are basically fighting for points/loot or a latter for a rank.
Games like DAoC and L2 have more impact on the gameworld. Players here fight for control of actual ingame castles and keeps and in the case of DAoC realm relics and L2 brings local economic influence in the form of taxes with castle control. Possession brings a direct benefit to the winning group and side or server.
All of these games are "fun" it just really depends on what your taste and skill level is. If you are a dabbler or individual focused player, WoW and GW will suit. If you are more of a "hardcore" player and desire more depth, DAoC or L2 are probably a better choice. (can't speak for EVE, never tried it)
The only truely "broken" PvP in a game I know of is SWG. Jedi just kill everyone and there is no reason to PvP at all anyway. I mean no reason at all, period....
We also have Lineage 2 and CAoC. Both really nice and group oriented. You really have an impact on the world (not as much as ShadowBane but meh).
The King of PvP is currently EVE. But it takes months to really mean anything in PvP, and even more to get in real Alliance politics.
A forgotten diamond in PvP is StarPort. Very small scale, but higly dependant on personal skill an strategic insight. But mostly too hard for many mmo'ers.
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What kind of PVP?
Realm vs. Realm:
DAOC wins hands down. PVP is not balanced for 1 on 1 combat. It's team oriented (8 man group) and army/zerg (multiple groups) warfare. It's NOT 1v1 PVP and never was designed for it. But for realm WARFARE it's one of the best.
AO is also very good in this area. It's probably one of the best kept secrets of the MMO community but the factional PVP in AO is very well done. Again... it's balanced for team/army combat... not 1v1
Arena:
Guild Wars has very good arena combat PVP. It's mainly designed for group vs group or guild vs. guild but you can also do 1v1 battles. PVP is fairly balanced across the board but there are some minor class imbalances.
WoW has decent PvP in it's "BG's" but I wouldn't call it "good"
Open:
EVE: Need I say more?
UO: Again
Lineage 2: (Actually L2 fits into both open and siege/warfare categories) the PVP is very good but it's COMPLETELY open and LEVEL based so you won't want to even think about PvP till you hit level 50-75... preferably 75 (max) or you'll be at an insurmountable dissadvantage. Certain classes are better than others for 1v1 PVP but for the siege/warfare combat it's team oriented. The grind in this is the WORST of any MMORPG on the market. It's not only the longest but also the most boring imnsho.
Shadowbane: Very nice PVP system. It's also both Open and Siege/Warfare. It's also level based so..... be prepared to die... alot.... till you level up. The grind isn't bad, however.
As you can see, the BETTER PVP MMO's (with the exception of EVE) are typically the older ones
LOL. That's just my opinion, however.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
quick question here if I may......
When I played a free week of EVE, the PvE combat basically consisted of targeting a mob, hitting "fire" and sitting back and waiting till it finished.........is this how they handle PvP in EVE as well?
wow - it's pvp is like everything else in the game, pretty colors, made so a 10 year old can master it - easy.
cox - the new pvp zone in i7 should be real fun. as you take spots, named hero/villain npcs join the fight on your side. otherwise, travel in a large group because pvp in COx is jacked.
shadowbane is something not a lot mentioned. the game is built around pvp. just have to get used to the controls.
daoc, not from experience, but from friends, the rvr stuff can be fun.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Damian7 - you have a wide assortment of skills and modules with which to outfit your ship. long story short - you equip your ship for what you want to do. skills add to what you can/can't equip, can/can't fly, and give bonuses on top of that. bleh, i haven't gotten much into the pvp in eve, yet. from what i hear, you could be equipped to take down a ship a class or two higher than you, but in doing so, you neglect certain defenses, which would leave you vunerable to smaller ships. or you can be a tank, essentially, or probably just a dps machine with no defenses. hopefully some eve vet would expound upon this.
I see.....So its alot like SWG land-based combat in that you choose a loadout(weaps/armor/systems/etc) and then just choose a target, hit "fire" and sit back 'til its done. No twitch invloved, no skill involved, no manouvre involved(at least in SWG's Jump to lightspeed you can out manouvre your opponent), just do the math, loadout your ship, target your opponent, and then fire and forget. Gee......sounds like it might get a bit repetitive
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
You are completely correct in that estimation. There is no twitch, maneuvering gives limited advantages but you can shoot through "terrain" such as asteroids and stuff and EVE's movement is all point and click based.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
You are completely correct in that estimation. There is no twitch, maneuvering gives limited advantages but you can shoot through "terrain" such as asteroids and stuff and EVE's movement is all point and click based.
Not really. Again, in order to "win" consistently at PvP in EVE you need to juggle ranges and transversal velocity on the fly. That is, your range and your foe's range in terms of: weapon, energy drain/neutraliser, webifier, warp scrambler, electronic warfare, etc., and then the transversal velocity to maximise (or minimise) hits from/to your opponent due to turret tracking.
If you take the click and orbit approach, you will get hammered, a LOT, in EVE's PvP. While the click and orbit approach is effective enough for PvE in EVE, it will get you roasted a lot in PvP.
Compared to what I beleive the OP is looking for that is going to hold little water since that is still all point and click, selecting orbit, approach, and so on. Every aspect of it is turn it on and let it shoot and from my interpretation of what the OP is looking for this isn't it.
I am not downing EVE but he specifically said twitch based and cited SWG which if fighter to fighter first person twitch based space combat. EVE would be about as exciting as watching paint dry to someone that wants that style of PvP.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Lafitte
Not really, no. First, there's definitely a maneuver aspect. Your ship and your opponent's ship will each have optimum ranges, which will depend on exactly what loadout you selected. You'll be trying to keep the enemy in your optimum range while staying out of his. Furthermore, there's modules that allow you to lend aid to allied ships, giving them shields, capacitor (energy), even performing repairs on them--but you have to be close enough to the allied ship to use it on them. A fleet of any size will have ships with a loadout for this "logisitics" role. So in fleet battles you have to keep an eye not only on your range to the enemy ships, but your range to own logistics ships as well. Fleet actions actually add a lot, since there's lots that can be done with proper coordination. Then there's all kinds of modules that have to activated, but eat capacitor, and do all kinds of things--slow the enemy down, repair your own systems, boost your speed, and more. But you have to watch that your capacitor doesn't get drained (repair modules in particular can't be run all the time). And if you have drones, you have to decide how you want to deploy them; depending on the situation, you may be retrieving them and relaunching them in order to replenish their shields. And so on. It's not twitch based, no, but there's still a lot going on.
Chris Mattern
Thanks for the responses gentlemen...........they certainly clarify the issue. And as Fadeus correctly guesses, I'm more attracted to twitch-based PvP like SWG's JTL, WWIIOL, PSide, and what Darkfall Online is planning. So I dont think EVE is for me.
Again, thanks.
Lafitte
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As far ar pure PvP goes there EVE is the best I have found....equally unfair to all
A noob can get blasted by a long time player but then again I have seen some excellent players go down to a swarm of semi-noobish players. It rewards those that work together well and punishes the unwise or unwary.
Witty saying to amuse you goes here.
shadowbane for PvP still... but we need something new.
PvP isn't lost, but the game developers damn sure are. Once again, takes money to make a MMO.. people that invest money want a return... pvp games don't make much money.. we are screwed.