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Brad McQuaid - Today's Tom Sawyer

AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Many of you probably know the story of Tom Sawyer and the whitewashed fence. Tom's Aunt told him he had to paint a fence. Instead, he duped the other boys into believing that spending the day painting a fence wasn't work - it was a privilege. So effective was this con that the boys were willing to pay Tom in order to be "lucky enough" to spend the day painting.

And so it is with Vanguard. Sigil has sold some people on the idea that if you make a game where everything is slower, harder, more tedious and less fun (in other words, work), well by golly that's not poor design - it makes you elite! If you play Vanguard, you're a powergamer! You're hardcore! *chuckle*

I have a mental image of this line of "powergamers" painting Aunt Polly's fence day after day after monotonous day because it somehow means they are "hardcore". Then I see old Tom sitting back, collecting their donations, and laughing himself silly.

EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

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Comments

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    *giggles*

      I think you pretty much hit it on the nail.

    Hard could be fun, but the way Brad envision it, it is anything but fun. 

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • TamalanTamalan Member Posts: 1,117

    The Vanbois cometh...

    *Sits back in chair with Popcorn and snuggles into Flame retardant suit*

  • ZindaihasZindaihas Member UncommonPosts: 3,662

    Your post smacks of sour grapes.  What do you care how the game plays?  Just don't play it and let others decide if they like it for themselves.  I have no idea whether VG is going to be good or bad at this point, but I'm not going to try to influence someone else's opinion.  And besides, with most of the other stuff that's been coming out recently, I wouldn't exactly say you're in a position to criticize this game over them.

    Of course, you're not really criticizing VG are you?  You're criticizing Brad McQuaid personally.  Why?  What did he ever do to you?  Tell you what, if you think you can do it better than him, don't tear him down, just go out there and do it.

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529

    I can just hear all the fans googling "Tom Sawyer" now. Then they wonder who Rush is.

    Literaracy FTW!



    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • ItlanChodeItlanChode Member Posts: 69

    Originally posted by Shayde

    I can just hear all the fans googling "Tom Sawyer" now. Then they wonder who Rush is.

    Literaracy FTW!




    I LOL'd.
  • TithrielleTithrielle Member Posts: 547
    Some people find the grind/camp cycle fun. Besides, show me a decent MMO that doesn't revolve around grinding these days. WoW is just a glorified grindathon, at least in Vanguard you should be able to grind with a bit of dignity.

  • sebbonxsebbonx Member Posts: 318
    Thank you Captain Obvious for the post. Lets see, Everquest Hate raids 40+ times, plus Fear, plus Naggy, plus Vox, then Kunark more raiding, then Velious even more raiding. I got off the train then, screw that, raiding sux. Waiting for WAR and some PvP action, I am never raiding again, and no Captain Obvious fan bois, I don't play that crap WoW, even though some tards think I do.

    If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)

  • dinkdink Member Posts: 438

    Originally posted by Amathe

    Many of you probably know the story of Tom Sawyer and the whitewashed fence. Tom's Aunt told him he had to paint a fence. Instead, he duped the other boys into believing that spending the day painting a fence wasn't work - it was a privilege. So effective was this con that the boys were willing to pay Tom in order to be "lucky enough" to spend the day painting.
    And so it is with Vanguard. Sigil has sold some people on the idea that if you make a game where everything is slower, harder, more tedious and less fun (in other words, work), well by golly that's not poor design - it makes you elite! If you play Vanguard, you're a powergamer! You're hardcore! *chuckle*
    I have a mental image of this line of "powergamers" painting Aunt Polly's fence day after day after monotonous day because it somehow means they are "hardcore". Then I see old Tom sitting back, collecting their donations, and laughing himself silly.

    Believe it or not, there really are people who LIKE masochistic game design.  However, they are a much smaller number than the amount of people who THINK they want masochistic game design due to nostalgia they have from when the genre was new and thus more exciting to them. 

    I'm not sure there are enough masochists with PCs in the world to make this game popular.

  • dinkdink Member Posts: 438

    Originally posted by sebbonx
    Thank you Captain Obvious for the post. Lets see, Everquest Hate raids 40+ times, plus Fear, plus Naggy, plus Vox, then Kunark more raiding, then Velious even more raiding. I got off the train then, screw that, raiding sux. Waiting for WAR and some PvP action, I am never raiding again, and no Captain Obvious fan bois, I don't play that crap WoW, even though some tards think I do.
    sebbonx - Warhammer isn't untill 2008.  Check out Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, and Gods & Heroes (beta signup has started for this one - just join their forums).  All of these games, especially Gods & Heroes, which is being made by the designer of Diablo II, look awesome (I saw them at E3) and you might actually play them this year instead of 2 or more years from now.
  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378

    Originally posted by Amathe

    Many of you probably know the story of Tom Sawyer and the whitewashed fence. Tom's Aunt told him he had to paint a fence. Instead, he duped the other boys into believing that spending the day painting a fence wasn't work - it was a privilege. So effective was this con that the boys were willing to pay Tom in order to be "lucky enough" to spend the day painting.
    And so it is with Vanguard. Sigil has sold some people on the idea that if you make a game where everything is slower, harder, more tedious and less fun (in other words, work), well by golly that's not poor design - it makes you elite! If you play Vanguard, you're a powergamer! You're hardcore! *chuckle*
    I have a mental image of this line of "powergamers" painting Aunt Polly's fence day after day after monotonous day because it somehow means they are "hardcore". Then I see old Tom sitting back, collecting their donations, and laughing himself silly.

    Well perfect then, the games not for you. Apparently though, you're bored as the rest of us with the drivel that is out right now or you wouldn't have time to post your glorious literary metaphor. Same as all the other bored denizens of the MMORPG world. If you have time to come to the Vanguard forums and make a post just to hate on it, then there is a definite need for a new good game in your life. It will be Vanguard for me, I wish you luck finding yours.

    However, I can remember a time when I was playing an MMORPG that I just didn't have time to post in forums like these even for a second in as much as years at a time because I was so consumed by it. Can you? Was that game easy or hard?

    image
  • sebbonxsebbonx Member Posts: 318

    Originally posted by dink

    sebbonx - Warhammer isn't untill 2008.  Check out Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, and Gods & Heroes (beta signup has started for this one - just join their forums).  All of these games, especially Gods & Heroes, which is being made by the designer of Diablo II, look awesome (I saw them at E3) and you might actually play them this year instead of 2 or more years from now.


    I will dink, thanks for the suggestion! Diablo 2 is still fun in its own way. I still would enjoy EQ1, and WoW, but I feel neither is worth $15 to play a month. GW and Diablo 2 are at least free and I play both a very little now and then.

    If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)

  • VengefulVengeful Member Posts: 473

    Tee hee!

    I will say this though... I was shopping around for a harder, more involved, no bells, no whistles, no flashy lights, "feeling of accomplishment" sort of MMO when I found out about Vanguard. Somehow, reaching max level and decking yourself out in uber l33t gear isn't as gratifying if you can do it in a month. It's hardly enough to warrant me showing my character off as some sort of trophy.

    image

  • neschrianeschria Member UncommonPosts: 1,406

    Originally posted by Amathe

    And so it is with Vanguard. Sigil has sold some people on the idea that if you make a game where everything is slower, harder, more tedious and less fun (in other words, work), well by golly that's not poor design - it makes you elite! If you play Vanguard, you're a powergamer! You're hardcore! *chuckle*

    While it may not appeal to the masses, you might be surprised how many people really do enjoy the "work" aspect. It's like my mom spending her whole weekend working in her garden. It's her hobby and her pride and joy, even if I personally can't imagine how anyone could possibly enjoy spending their time off from work outside WORKING. I don't want to spend my weekends weeding flowerbeds, for sure, but apparently SOME people do. It's slow, it's tedious, and it isn't fun. Except to my mom. She must think she's a hardcore powergardener or something.

    Not everyone looking forward to Vanguard is walking around feeling all proud and puffed up over being "hardcore" or "a powergamer". Some people are just waxing nostalgic for their EQ1 days, of course... But it seems to me that there are plenty of people who are looking for a particular kind of game experience and think that Vanguard will supply it. You might think that they have to be tricked into thinking they want that kind of game, but they actually know what they want and have been feeling despair and disappointment over recent games that seem watered down compared to what they want and what they have expected.

    It may not be a monster game like WoW, in terms of sheer numbers of accounts, but I think there will be some happy Vanguard players out there who feel like they found just the right game for them. I don't know that I will be one of them. I don't know that I am going to play Vanguard at all, but I figure the people who do end up playing are probably best equipped to tell what kind of gameplay they enjoy.

    ...
    This is where I draw the line: __________________.

  • zethcarnzethcarn Member UncommonPosts: 1,558

    Originally posted by Amathe

    Many of you probably know the story of Tom Sawyer and the whitewashed fence. Tom's Aunt told him he had to paint a fence. Instead, he duped the other boys into believing that spending the day painting a fence wasn't work - it was a privilege. So effective was this con that the boys were willing to pay Tom in order to be "lucky enough" to spend the day painting.
    And so it is with Vanguard. Sigil has sold some people on the idea that if you make a game where everything is slower, harder, more tedious and less fun (in other words, work), well by golly that's not poor design - it makes you elite! If you play Vanguard, you're a powergamer! You're hardcore! *chuckle*
    I have a mental image of this line of "powergamers" painting Aunt Polly's fence day after day after monotonous day because it somehow means they are "hardcore". Then I see old Tom sitting back, collecting their donations, and laughing himself silly.

    it's guys like Amathe that think everyone wanting to play Vanguard wants to be a powergamer or a "OMG I'm so much better than you elite".  It's a very moronic thing to think and simply not true.  For me it's going to be about the community mostly.  Let me put it this way,  If I were to log into EQ today I could still talk to friends who I met 7 years ago.  That's community for you. 

  • GrimSkunk2GrimSkunk2 Member Posts: 451

    Originally posted by zethcarn

    Originally posted by Amathe

    Many of you probably know the story of Tom Sawyer and the whitewashed fence. Tom's Aunt told him he had to paint a fence. Instead, he duped the other boys into believing that spending the day painting a fence wasn't work - it was a privilege. So effective was this con that the boys were willing to pay Tom in order to be "lucky enough" to spend the day painting.
    And so it is with Vanguard. Sigil has sold some people on the idea that if you make a game where everything is slower, harder, more tedious and less fun (in other words, work), well by golly that's not poor design - it makes you elite! If you play Vanguard, you're a powergamer! You're hardcore! *chuckle*
    I have a mental image of this line of "powergamers" painting Aunt Polly's fence day after day after monotonous day because it somehow means they are "hardcore". Then I see old Tom sitting back, collecting their donations, and laughing himself silly.

    it's guys like Amathe that think everyone wanting to play Vanguard wants to be a powergamer or a "OMG I'm so much better than you elite".  It's a very moronic thing to think and simply not true.  For me it's going to be about the community mostly.  Let me put it this way,  If I were to log into EQ today I could still talk to friends who I met 7 years ago.  That's community for you. 

    And what is so bad about being elite anyway?  I always viewed becoming elite as a goal, not something to be frowned on: elite special forces, elite doctors, etc. I see nothing wrong with that.

    -W.

  • zethcarnzethcarn Member UncommonPosts: 1,558
    There's nothing wrong with wanting to be elite.  It's just some players chose to rub it in your face every chance they get,  whether it be obvious or subtle suggestions.
  • synergisynergi Member UncommonPosts: 133

    Originally posted by Amathe

    Many of you probably know the story of Tom Sawyer and the whitewashed fence. Tom's Aunt told him he had to paint a fence. Instead, he duped the other boys into believing that spending the day painting a fence wasn't work - it was a privilege. So effective was this con that the boys were willing to pay Tom in order to be "lucky enough" to spend the day painting.
    And so it is with Vanguard. Sigil has sold some people on the idea that if you make a game where everything is slower, harder, more tedious and less fun (in other words, work), well by golly that's not poor design - it makes you elite! If you play Vanguard, you're a powergamer! You're hardcore! *chuckle*
    I have a mental image of this line of "powergamers" painting Aunt Polly's fence day after day after monotonous day because it somehow means they are "hardcore". Then I see old Tom sitting back, collecting their donations, and laughing himself silly.
    Well gosh, I thought I was the only one that felt EQ was one of the most boring games i've ever had the misfortune to play. For 4 years I tried to 'make' myself like it. Never happened. Anything that was remotely fun or worth getting they'd nerf...oh if only i'd gotten my rubicite armor :) To much work, to many time sinks..to tedious, to boring. Nice post ..

    "It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees,"

  • ZindaihasZindaihas Member UncommonPosts: 3,662

    _________________________________________________________________________________________

    Originally posted by synergi

    Well gosh, I thought I was the only one that felt EQ was one of the most boring games i've ever had the misfortune to play. For 4 years I tried to 'make' myself like it. Never happened. Anything that was remotely fun or worth getting they'd nerf...oh if only i'd gotten my rubicite armor :) To much work, to many time sinks..to tedious, to boring. Nice post ..
    _________________________________________________________________________________________

    There's something I don't understand.  If you hated the game so much, why did you stick with it for four years?  I loved EQ and only played it for two.

  • SalvatorisSalvatoris Member Posts: 1,360

    Originally posted by anarchyart

    Originally posted by Amathe

    Many of you probably know the story of Tom Sawyer and the whitewashed fence. Tom's Aunt told him he had to paint a fence. Instead, he duped the other boys into believing that spending the day painting a fence wasn't work - it was a privilege. So effective was this con that the boys were willing to pay Tom in order to be "lucky enough" to spend the day painting.
    And so it is with Vanguard. Sigil has sold some people on the idea that if you make a game where everything is slower, harder, more tedious and less fun (in other words, work), well by golly that's not poor design - it makes you elite! If you play Vanguard, you're a powergamer! You're hardcore! *chuckle*
    I have a mental image of this line of "powergamers" painting Aunt Polly's fence day after day after monotonous day because it somehow means they are "hardcore". Then I see old Tom sitting back, collecting their donations, and laughing himself silly.

    Well perfect then, the games not for you. Apparently though, you're bored as the rest of us with the drivel that is out right now or you wouldn't have time to post your glorious literary metaphor. Same as all the other bored denizens of the MMORPG world. If you have time to come to the Vanguard forums and make a post just to hate on it, then there is a definite need for a new good game in your life. It will be Vanguard for me, I wish you luck finding yours.

    However, I can remember a time when I was playing an MMORPG that I just didn't have time to post in forums like these even for a second in as much as years at a time because I was so consumed by it. Can you? Was that game easy or hard?

    Speaking of bored.... shouldn't you be playing DnL right now? ;)

    image
    -----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----

  • synergisynergi Member UncommonPosts: 133
    I played with my husband..and because there just wasn't anything out worth playing... I jumped ship as soon as there was trust me :)

    Although i should say I had a on and off relationship.. play 4-6 months.. quit for 4-6 months.. come back try again..remembered why I hated and quit the last 10 times..and quit again :)


    "It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees,"

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378


    Originally posted by Salvatoris

    Speaking of bored.... shouldn't you be playing DnL right now? ;)


    Lol maybe you have tried DnL then. I just happen to have high hopes for it because the pvp idea could rock and the game is so vast it could be better than UO if they can get it to work properly.

    image
  • jimmyman99jimmyman99 Member UncommonPosts: 3,221
    I dont want Vanny to become EQ3, but I dont want Vanny to be "beaten" in 1 month either. I guess what im looking for is a hybrid... EverWoW of sort. Big world, lotsa quest some soloability, no time sink for group waiting, raiding, lotsa items.. and i mean ITEMS, not rusty/steel/bronze/crappy items that weight like a cow but cost like my crap... ever tried to sell your crap ? Thats how i felt when i was selling rusty/bronze/steel weapons in EQ1
    The only trully great memory from EQ1 was the laugh your pet skelly did when sitting up/down... ah, the memories...


    I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
    image
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
    imageimage

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529
    I;m beginning to hate this thread... Every time I see the topic I hear..

    Dun Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnnn

    Dun Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnnn

    Though his mind is not for rent

    Dun Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnn


    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378

    Originally posted by Shayde
    I;m beginning to hate this thread... Every time I see the topic I hear..

    Dun Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnnn

    Dun Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnnn

    Though his mind is not for rent

    Dun Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnn

    Ugh now you put it in my head lol

    image
  • ShadusShadus Member UncommonPosts: 669

    I have one thing to say in defense of vanguard:

    At least they're professionals, it *CAN'T* be as bad as D&L :P *shudder* or Galaxies NGE.

    Will it be a good game? I dunno, depends on the lessons they learned from EQ1, EQ2, DAOC, WOW, etc... somethings really do need slowed down a bit, others need sped up, it really depends. It could be a great game or it could be a worthless pile of trash, I'll end up giving it a try to see what I think because I did enjoy the first everquest and alot of the early games in the genre (m59, lok, nwn, eq1, uo, ac, etc)

    Shadus

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