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Are all corporations this anal and near sighted?
kjemper
Member Posts: 181
EDIT: Check out page two or the links in this post to see just how dictated this corp was by draconian law. If anything, they scared me out of the corp for being so crazy.
(Draconian Law: You break a rule, you die basically. For those who might not know the historical reference.)
I replaced names in this little fiasco, all shown below, that started with a simple notification I gave to one of my corp leaders in reguard to a corp mail sent out. Seems they are reallly anal about the small things
, but hey... what do I know?
So I am asking, is every corp this anal and horrid about such things?
If you don't want to read all that was said below, I'll sum it up for you.
It is required for members to be logged into teamspeak at all times while in the game so that if someone needs help and calls for it over teamspeak, other members logged in can rush to their aid. Makes perfect sense so far.
Right now I am playing around 98 hours a week because my allergies are trapping me inside my house. So during those 98 hours a week (+ or - 14 hours) I usually spend about 30 mins on another teamspeak server talking to friends from high school that still play WoW -- once a week. My corp leaders are telling me that I cannot login to play in EVE Online as a member of their corp while talking to my friend on another teamspeak server. They seem to disreguard the fact it is only .0051% of the total time I play during a week that I would not be on their teamspeak server. To top it all off, I only hear about 5-10 mins of conversation a day on the server...
What is so different from being on a different server to talk to friends the way I have been for years and those who are logged into this Teamspeak server and the game during nearly all hours and almost always afk, not truly present to respond to a cry for aid as they appear to be? We have alot of those in this corp. So you see 20-25 some people on the TS server with only a good 5-10 people actually present.
I just don't get this line of logic coming from these corp leaders of mine, although I am not sure if there is a logic behind this one.
(Copied from my post on page two showing some crazy corp e-mails:)http://pic2m.com/files/pic2m140606/wwwpic2mcom140606194805DraconianLaw.jpg
http://pic2m.com/files/pic2m140606/wwwpic2mcom140606200609DraconianLaw2.jpg
http://pic2m.com/files/pic2m140606/wwwpic2mcom140606200726DraconianLaw3.jpg
--------------------
2006.06.02 23:14
##########################
DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE
##########################
ALL PILOTS NEED TO USE TEAM SPEAK.
ALL PILOTS NEED TO USE TEAM SPEAK.
ALL PILOTS NEED TO USE TEAM SPEAK.
ALL PILOTS NEED TO USE TEAM SPEAK.
ALL PILOTS NEED TO USE TEAM SPEAK.
PLEASE LOG ON EACH TIME YOU PLAY.
Server Address: 00.00.00.000 LOG ON as ANONYMOUS.
There is a SERVER PASSWORD....Star Trek.
USE A NICK NAME like this...
[CORP] "Mr Big"
Log on anonymous.
THANKS!
TS is needful in 0.0 corp!
"Mr Big" VICE-CEO CORP
PS IF someone logs on looking for info about CORP, please assist them.
All members are asked to recruit new peeps and use the recruitment
chat ch to talk to peeps. It is CORP06. Thanks!
--------------------
2006.06.09 01:39
I will not be able to be on TS any time I am logged in. TS only allows you to be connected to one
server at a time. There is no way I am aware of to get around this. Quite often I am on another
server to talk to my friends (in real-life, not in-game friends) on another server. It is usually the
only way we can get together to talk for various reasons. I'm not going to stop talking to my real
life buds I've known for years since high school. This is something I am sure you can understand.
Thank you for your time,
Kjemper
--------------------
2006.06.10 22:11
ADJUTANT Head Trainer:
Please consult with Apprentice Pilot Kjemper.
As you know, TS is mandatory in 0.0 space.
This pilot will need to choose between playing EVE and using the "telephone". A tough choice to be
sure.
Perhaps you can assist him in managing both.
I will appreciate your report on this pilot in a few days.
BTW...I will need a list of 20 to expel from CORP in 5 days if you can. Please post same in
EXECUTIVE forum please.
"Mr Big", VICE-CEO, CORP
cc: Apprentice Pilot Kjemper
--------------------
2006.06.11 19:18
"Mr Big" accidentally sent me this mail (below my letter) instead of sending it to you in response
to a concern I addressed him about. Figured you would like to get it. Of course I'll keep the
information in his letter to you confidential. As far as I am concerned, I never saw it.
As for the "need to choose between playing EVE and using the 'telephone'" comment, I can't exactly
talk to multiple people on the telephone at a time without paying extra fees. On teamspeak I can,
and that is why all my friends use it to talk amongst ourselves and keep in touch easily. We are
all gamers who are members of clans/guilds/corps and still like to chat at times with each other
while playing our games. I do have a life outside EVE and having to choose one or the other seems
silly. Especially when I will still be on the CORP TS server 98% of the time while logged into EVE. I
hope I am mis-understanding CB here as I am not going to tell my friends, "sorry, but to be a
member of this corp in EVE I can't talk to you guys on TS anymore if I am going to be logged in
to play EVE." I enjoy EVE and really enjoy this corp within it's universe, but I am not going to ditch
friends and real life relationships for a game. I'm sure you can help me out with this.
Looking forward to learning all about mining later from ya. I have that LAN party going on this
week and a friend is bringing me over an extra monitor so I can be logged into my secondary
account (Kjemper 2) at the same time. I can't wait to get out there and learn about the industrial
side of EVE with him. Take care.
-Kjemper
--------------------
2006.06.12 17:44
so u cant talk or be on TS while being on eve ?
-ADJUTANT Head Trainer
--------------------
2006.06.12 17:48
That isn't it at all. There are just times here and there I am talking to real-life friends I've known
since high school on another TS server and you can't be on two servers at once. They all play
world of warcraft and have a server for that, so I go there to keep up with them and visit. I am
almost always on TS when logged in. There are times though when I am on another server to talk
to friends before logging on to the CORP server.
-Kjemper
--------------------
2006.06.12 18:08
Oh i see, so let me asked, what happens if someone calls out for help and gives a location can
you assit them.?
-ADJUTANT Head Trainer
---------------------------------------------------------------
Channel ID: 2108953246
Channel Name: Private Chat (alone)
Listener: Kjemper
Session started: 2006.06.12 18:08:48
---------------------------------------------------------------
?[ 2006.06.12 18:08:56 ] Head Trainer > hey better..
?[ 2006.06.12 18:09:08 ] Kjemper > lol, better than tag mail?
?[ 2006.06.12 18:09:17 ] Head Trainer > oh ya..
?[ 2006.06.12 18:10:14 ] Head Trainer > so can you respond if someone calls for help on TS
?[ 2006.06.12 18:10:41 ] Kjemper > About the whole TS thing, my friends and I have always used it to keep in touch. I'm logged in around 12-16 hours a day. Once a week I might have a 15-45min period where I am on another server to TS. That's all it is.
?[ 2006.06.12 18:10:46 ] Kjemper > Not sure what ya mean.
?[ 2006.06.12 18:12:36 ] Head Trainer > well donw south we only use TS, for most parts, So when someone calls for help they are on TS, and they give detailswhile they are being attacked with location and details need to help them out,, .. Can you hear them on TS..
?[ 2006.06.12 18:13:25 ] Kjemper > Not if I am on another TS chatting with my friends, no. I realize that. Would you rather have me log out of the game just to talk to them if I'm not on TS?
?[ 2006.06.12 18:14:50 ] Head Trainer > yes, cause other wise that would make you avaible for war duty , or homegaurd protection
?[ 2006.06.12 18:15:17 ] Head Trainer > in fact if you are log in to CORP, you have to be on TS..
?[ 2006.06.12 18:15:30 ] Head Trainer > same as the 0.0 corp...
?[ 2006.06.12 18:16:31 ] Kjemper > I can do that. So if I want to chat with my friends on TS I just wont be logged in while I do it. Guess it works for me.
?[ 2006.06.12 18:16:45 ] Head Trainer > if your talking to your friends, would not be a good idea to on line in eve...
?[ 2006.06.12 18:17:18 ] Head Trainer > ya just log out of eve, so nonone can expect help from ya..
?[ 2006.06.12 18:18:04 ] Head Trainer > its so important to have people that are online to respond in a moments notice to help out..
?[ 2006.06.12 18:20:17 ] Kjemper > Just did some numbers. I would still be on TS 99.59% of the time I am logged into this game (around 98 hours a week)
?[ 2006.06.12 18:20:30 ] Kjemper > /emote shrugs
?[ 2006.06.12 18:20:38 ] Kjemper > Rules are rules though I guess.
?[ 2006.06.12 18:20:51 ] Kjemper > I'm one to follow them, not break them
?[ 2006.06.12 18:21:10 ] Head Trainer > ya , just logg out while talking to your friends..
?[ 2006.06.12 18:21:22 ] Head Trainer > i do that alot myself..
?[ 2006.06.12 18:21:33 ] Kjemper > Alright, well... back to mining. Unless there was something else.
?[ 2006.06.12 18:23:02 ] Head Trainer > , ok, are u mining alone ./?
?[ 2006.06.12 18:23:23 ] Kjemper > Ninja mining with instans in 0.8, yea.
?[ 2006.06.12 18:23:47 ] Head Trainer > ok, watch out for the [mercenary at war with us] logging in...
?[ 2006.06.12 18:24:02 ] Head Trainer > catch ya later...fly safe...
?[ 2006.06.12 18:24:06 ] Kjemper > I am. It is 10 jumps away, but trust me... I am.
?[ 2006.06.12 18:24:10 ] Kjemper > You too, fly safe
Comments
Rules are good, and structure is a must to move forward in 0.0. Being on teamspeak is a good rule, but some people can't see the line between helping and hurting the corp when it comes to enforcing the rules. Common sense does have a place, and they fail to see it.
Bottom line: its up to the corp and its leaders to make these decisions. But its not up to them if you stay or leave.
Look me up if you need a new home in a casual corp in 0.0 that likes to fight pirates and chill. (ventrilo optional) :P
The Brotherhood Of Light Home
-Rychek
There are people that are inbetween as well, but for the most part these are the two kinds of leadership I've witnessed personally. The rules-lawyers are tend towards making rules just to make it inconvientent for some people to exist, and to them, rules are never stupid and should be changed.
This is a bit of a personal issue to me... I've met a few rules-lawyers in my time that get into a position of power, think they're all that, and then start throwing their weight around. Both online and off.
Not all corp leaders are like this. Best thing you can do is give them the finger, steal as much crap as you can, and steal as many disgruntled members as you can.
Sounds like you joined Shattered Star Confederation! Bunch of anal buggers! I quit Eve because of them... I came back though. My present corp uses a Vent server. We're not required to get on, but we all "mandatorialy" do.
Yes, TS is important for anything. Even if you're not in 0.0... just floating around low-sec... or to just talk with your corp. It builds friendship and communication. All of which you need/want to have.
Of course, comparing talking with friends to using a "telephone" is simply rediculous. Real life will ALWAYS come before a video game. Even if these are only friends from another video game, they are YOUR friends. Do what I did... simply tell them "I'm a grown damn man. I will quite easily do whatever the hell I choose. Until you begin paying for my account, don't ever tell me how I can play. Piss off!"
*quit corp*
*be happy*
*join better corp*
*be happier*
My only problem was coming back and having BoB all thoughout the Fountain Region. I wanted to join, but... well... I forgot to change my bio, and it still said I was a member of the Fountain Alliance. Needless to say, I didn't get safe passage back to empire. It worked out for the better though. BoB is fine... but I much prefer the corp I'm in today to some big 0.0 alliance.
Quit the corp, mate. People who take games that serious take away the "game" aspect of it.
Right, the hell, ON!!SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
In any case, its their corp and their rules. If you dont like it, quit your bitching and leave. Looking at what you posted, it seems more like you were whining in hopes of getting yourself a special exemption so you could feel special then actually having an issue with the policy. I honestly would have thrown you out of the corp after your second evemail. Drama queens are quite an annoyance.
More to the point, he has more right to bitch than you have telling him what to do.
ps. it is kinda drama queen to post all this. agreed.
pps. in my corp you don't get shot for being in pvp without mic. Just if you do something stupid that gets others killed.
More to the point, he has more right to bitch than you have telling him what to do.
ps. it is kinda drama queen to post all this. agreed.
pps. in my corp you don't get shot for being in pvp without mic. Just if you do something stupid that gets others killed.
You dont have to have a mic unless youre in a leadership position, but you do have to be able to listen at all times in ops (this applies to combat ops as well as hostile-area mining/NPCing ops). Not being able to at least listen on voice coms IS in fact something stupid that gets others killed in combat.
Youre right that the big alliances have a lot of people - thats why they rely on corps to manage their own members. I've never been big on absolutely requiring things in corps, but people who consistantly fail to do whats expected of them (such as being on voice coms in hostile areas) will eventually find themselves getting the boot. Its not a corp rule which I would have implemented, but its a corp rule, so if you dont like it, leave the corp. Getting pissy because some corp asked you to follow their rules is just laughable.
To my knowledge there is a difference between, "getting pissy" and asking if all corps are this anal. Those on the actual EVE forums were much more helpful in answering this question rather than trying to analyze my psychological make-up without as much as meeting me.
To each their own.
Note: I am taking the advice of the more constructive posters who answered my question and quitting the corp to find a much better one since this did not in-fact apply only to gang-ops in the slightest. Thank you for the advice and letting me know this is not common.
Haha.
Look, there's common sense and discipline and there's idiotic near-roleplay military-wannabee organisation.
This corp (judging from the unneccesarily formal mails) falls into the latter category.
My corp has mandatory TS activity too. You want in a gang, you must be on TS. You NPCing somewhere in our home regions: be on TS. If you die while not on TS, you're in for a bollocking.
But we also know how to keep things sensible. If your GF is having her period and is nagging your arse off all night in the background: get off TS please ! If you've got sixteen babies you're taking caring of during daytime: get off TS ! And if you wanna talk to some friends on a different TS sometimes, go ahead and do it. Just don't expect to be spared that bollocking if you manage to get killed while being on the wrong TS server
In short: there's little wrong with dicipline and organisation. People saying " tell him to fuck off, noone can tell me what to do cause i pay for the game myself !" are not the type of people you want in a corporation that is planning on actually achieving something. So, that's the choice you've got to make. If you want to get somewhere, you adapt and accept being forced to be disciplined.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Its ironic that you'd use BoB as an example of what a militaristic corp is trying to be when replying to someone from BoB explaining how discipline in a corp is good.
Some corps in EVE are more "serious minded", for lack of a better word, than others. Some are more "casual" than others.
My own 0.0 corp uses vent, and it's mandatory to have a mic and have access to vent in order to be a member. You do not have to be on vent all the time you are logged onto EVE, but it is absolutely mandatory for any combat operations (you will get people killed otherwise ... it's really not an option in EVE PvP these days). So we have a middle ground approach. Other corps I've been in previously have had the mandatory "always on vent" rule, with the idea being that this way a combat group can be much more easily assembled on short notice (noone ignoring chat, turning off channel blinks and stuff like that) if needed. That was their rule, and I followed it while I was there, whereas other people got pisssy and bitched and eventually ended up fucking off because of it ... it really is a personality issue. To me, if I belong to a corp and I don't trust the leadership or like the rules, I will leave, but if I am there and I trust the leadership I will follow their rules.
That's more or less it.
In Eve, to get to anywher near the pinnacle of power (which seems to be something this corp is trying), you need to ahve a tight-knit group of people in your corp, bound by trust. Trust is affected alot by discipline. If I;m on TS when you get in trouble two jumps over I might be in time, the next guy that's not probably won't be in time or won't know where to go in system.
That's simply E$ve gameplay reality. Good communications win over bad ones EVERY SINGLE TIME.
And that measn more trust, better bonds, more efficiency and thus more power. It *is* that simple.
And yes, not liking that is fine. And I already said that common sense always keeps its place even in a disciplined corp. But even if you don't like any form of obligation to your corp and want to wing it semi-alone or very casually, then that's perfectly fine of course.
Just never expect to get anywhere near to a powerfull position that way, that's all.
edit: oh, and BoB is far from militaristic, we;re just a pretty close bunch that mostly share an interest and an idea of what we consider fun. People in Eve shouldn't believe half of what's said about us sometimes.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
I'd agree with that tbh.
They look a bit constipated, altho the intention is probably right for their goals.
I'm in an alliance that uses ventrilo, everyone's given the server details and encouraged to use it however it's not mandatory or a rule or anything. Ventrilo/team speak helps alot and is a neccessity in 0.0 for large fleets but I play EVE to relax and have fun. If I wanted to be ordered about and spoken down to like that I'd either join the army or get slung in prison! I mean I've had enough crappy jobs with bosses who think they're f***ing "Ming the Merciless" in my life already! I'm not going to pay a monthly fee for some 17 year old spotty turd to shout down at me like he's Colonel Klinkerhoffen sending me to the bloody eastern front!
If you want to join a more laid back corp/alliance that's on vent (so you can talk to your buddies on TS at the sametime) then send me a PM.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
This letter (click the link below) was a reminder that all leaders had the right to pod kill members who didn't follow the rules and was sent as I was deciding whether or not I truly wanted to quit. So yea... I left for my own safety. Not just because of the whole teamspeak thing, but it definately got me thinking!
http://pic2m.com/files/pic2m140606/wwwpic2mcom140606194805DraconianLaw.jpg
Here are some other disturbing ones from the same corp I figured others would get a kick out of reading that were all sent during the week I was in the corp alone.
Don't accidentally reply to a corp message or you'll regret it!
http://pic2m.com/files/pic2m140606/wwwpic2mcom140606200609DraconianLaw2.jpg
This pilot was listed as KOS for being "insubordinate" according to the Vice-CEO
NOTE: This was his only so-called offense while in the corp!
http://pic2m.com/files/pic2m140606/wwwpic2mcom140606200726DraconianLaw3.jpg
Someone once said Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
So true.
I play EVE for fun. I will never be the master of all the universe nor do I want to be. If I wanted to be treated like a robot I would quit EVE and join the military.
Some people play EVE that way and I guess it works for them but not for me. It reminds me of the battle between Raiders and non raiders in some MMO's. Each camp thinks that their way is the only way to play and they will never agree. In EVE its taken to an extreme. If you want to see some blood letting arguments just look at the EVE forums. Actually its really fun to read those posts. I guess its a good thing they dont know where each other is in RL as I am sure physical violence would occur.
In EVE if you want to get FLAMED do the following
1. Suggest that 0.0 space be open to more players.
2. Suggest that new players be given a place where they can be safe.
3. Suggest any change to the game that the vets dont like.
4. Be against Gate camping.
5. Support the rule that allows new players to stay in Newbie Corps.
Anyway I still like EVE and I just play my own game and they play theirs. That is the one thing I like about EVE is the freedom to play the way you want regardless of the people in EVE that think you are not a real player unless ypu play their way.
Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.
I've got half a mind to make an alt and join his corp just so that I can give him some grief
cold blade: "Why are you flying alone and not on teamspeak ranger?"
Me: "I can't be bothered"
CB: "what!!!! report to Delvar Jove immedeatly!!!!!!"
me: "Sorry I'm too tired at the moment, maybe later?"
CB: "To tired??!!!"
me: "Yeh, your momma kept me up all night again!"
CB: "Ranger that is insubordinate behaviour, report to Delvar Jove ASAP!"
me: "that's not what your momma said last night!"
CB: "Now you have a 25 mil isk fine and must report to Delvar Jove"
me: "Oh and by the way "needful" isn't a word you moron"
CB: "Ranger, report to delvar Jove now!"
me: "Sorry I can't, he's humping your momma right now 20 minutes ok?"
CB: "Hmmm it was alot easier than this in "The Dirty Dozen" "
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
some people think these games are life and death. You obviously do not.
There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't
I'm not on TeamSpeak, Ventrillo, or any of that crap.
I never will be.
I'm still in EVE. EVE was playable before TS/Vent came into vouge, and is still playable today.
You don't need it to succeed in EVE. It causes as many problems as it solves. Like the above points in the OP.
If it ever gets to a point where I can't play without it, I'll just leave and go find something that doesn't impose so much on my recreation.
I am not alone.
Every game that has tried to bring in integrated voice chat has failed to meet its subscription quotas. It caters to a hardcore minority, of which most of us here are, but which most subscribers to games are not.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
-iCeh
I love how they'd rather have you log out than be on eve and on a different TS...like it makes a difference. You definately can't respond to a help plea if you arent in the game.....
but maybe im the only one that realizes this as multiple people have said that if you are logged on to eve its good that you HAVE to be on TS.....
Who is this Cold Blade guy?
What is his corp's name, what alliance, and where are they at?
How many players real players are there, as opposed to their alts? You obviously know, because you know their voices. Such information can really put them in the gutter, if all the other corps know.
Who owns the TS server? What is its IP? What is its password? Get this info in the right hands, and there are alliances that would just love to sneak in an ear, or maybe even hack into it and cause a crash in the middle of PvP play.
Who seems to be "on the outs," and who are the "golden children" who can't do wrong? Can they be bought with ISK? Can they be persuaded to "listen in," maybe make some recordings? Maybe simulcast the transmissions to the enemy?
What are their jobs? Where are each of their timezones? Do they have websites with PayPal donations? Would they take RL money for their RL things they do, in exchange for screwing over these idiots like Cold Blade?
Yes I know it sounds cold, downright nasty, and crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed. Just like they are doing to you, and everyone else. And don't think for a moment that if they had the capacity to do it, they wouldn't do it, kjemper. They have no qualms about making people miserable over a video game, and using every advantage they know to make a game a "real life thing."
They opened the door to having all this stuff done to them that I described, because they feel like they can cross lines that shouldn't be crossed, just to make people miserable and take the game to a place where it shouldn't ever go.
So do likewise. After all, if they want to act all serious, then give them serious problems.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE