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wow(not WoW)!- re: poll.

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  • ozmonoozmono Member UncommonPosts: 1,211


    Originally posted by Greyface

    Alright, I admit I got a little carried away in my previous post.  I was having a crappy RL day -- when stressed I tend to speak in absolutes.  Sue me.

    That said, I'm still very nervous about the tendency in our culture to group any self-destructive, compulsive behaiviors with chemical dependencies.  Whether it's gambling, sex, food or computer games, the vast majority of people are capable of enjoying pleasurable things without causing themselves any harm.  Yes, even a well-adjusted individual can overeat or spend too much time online during the first flush of a new MMO, but that does not define them as sick.  As I have stated, I also believe that it is possible to become compulsive and obsessive about anything pleasurable to such an extent that it becomes self-destructive.  What I do not accept is the assertion that video games, MMO or otherwise, are any more prone to triggering these sorts of behaiviors than any other activity. 

    While no one here advocates the banning of video games, that's exactly where this road leads.  In America, we're entering into a new election cycle.  If you live here, you know that this country has some big problems.  Problems that have no easy answers.  In these circumstances, politicians have always looked for scape goatsThey are already doing it.   And it's not like this sort of thing has not happened before

          


    I understand what you are saying and accept it. I to and concerned about the tendency of irrational politics getting played upon and used to manipulate people for whatever purposes. Whilst I do not no wethar video have more of a tendency to cause harm to their users than other activities(depends which but generally I'm not informed enough to say) however it seems unlikely that it is as big of a problem as some try to present it as when considering the amount and dedication of some groups to recieve publicity about there cause and the huge numbers of video gamers or potential sources of evidence.(were the road leads) however whilst I understand and can relate to " I was having a crappy RL day -- when stressed I tend to speak in absolutes.  Sue me." such a situation I also agree that it was the wrong thing to try and dismiss discussion on it in any capacity. However its no big deal and I agree with you.(although I'm not an American, I can and do choice to pay attention to your mass media and deffinetely do see alot of your politics as irrational and carried away with based only upon the relatively amount of your little variety(but your largest) media sources I am able to easily pay attention to.

    EDIT:
    back to the specific discussion though I didn't read anything in your last post I disagree with(and haven't disagreed) with what you've said in your last post and whilst I'm also concerned about the hyped politics you mention I also am concerned about opposite attitudes to those you've mentioned saying or implying overly that life is tough everyone should deal with it and booh hoo if they don't. I did point out things like mental illnesses and the most level headed people having the potential(nothing more than that) of  getting carried away with things that can do them harm and downwards spirals which can lead to other problems and hide the orginal causes(which as you said can be almost anything).

    Mainly I wanted to give space for people to express there opinion that it's addictive if they choose to as I believe it is but am not overly concerned that it will make it harder for people to live a happy and satisfifing life that is not self destrutive to themselves or others. Mainly because like you I accept, many things can trigger or make it harder for someone to make a good choice and I don't see this as a major one affecting the massess. Tragically I agree that it's like most things in life, something can almost always have ill desired consequences that someone may slip on
    (which is why some people stress moderation) but to dismiss it as stupidy, laziness and so forth is to simplify the many huge range of problems people may encounter which they for whatever reason struggle to handle. I see the reason why people react so strongly and say such things which is they are taking the opposite viewpoint to those who they believe to be carried away but two wrongs don't make a right and Iin the case of opposing extremes I think one is best to consider the middle ground even if its hard to find people as vocal or to put it as excitingly as those who take the extremes, fighting one extreme with the other is difficult to do while keeping your head and I wish I could do it better :)

  • GreyfaceGreyface Member Posts: 390


    Originally posted by ozmono

    Tragically I agree that it's like most things in life, something can almost always have ill desired consequences that someone may slip on
    (which is why some people stress moderation) but to dismiss it as stupidy, laziness and so forth is to simplify the many huge range of problems people may encounter which they for whatever reason struggle to handle. I see the reason why people react so strongly and say such things which is they are taking the opposite viewpoint to those who they believe to be carried away but two wrongs don't make a right and Iin the case of opposing extremes



    I reacted strongly to the topic because of the absolutely idiotic response I expect from my government should things like video game addiction become established as mainstream science.  Americans typically do not react rationally to problems like this.  We are a country that tolerates  - even expects - government to take a paternalistic role when it comes to so-called personal morality.  What's more, we expect that every part of popular culture be sanitized and dumbed down to the point where it is appropriate for toddlers. 

    I also reacted strongly because I am very uncomfortable with the therapy culture I see developing around me.  People are too willing to transfer responsibility for their personal failings to some external factor.  They are too willing to seek treatment for diseases that may or may not even exist.  Now, I do not dispute that some compulsive behaviors do require outside intervention - compulsive gambling for one.  But I believe that the move to label gaming as "addictive" was too quick and driven more by hysteria than by real science.  The more talk there is about gaming addiction in the mass media, the more people will become convinced that they suffer from it.   Of course there are lonely and troubled people who spend excessive amounts of time playing games - particularly MMOs.  But I reject the assertion that someone can be transformed negatively (or positively for that matter) by exposure to an electronic game.

       

  • ozmonoozmono Member UncommonPosts: 1,211

    Originally posted by Greyface
    I reacted strongly to the topic because of the absolutely idiotic response I expect from my government should things like video game addiction become established as mainstream science.  Americans typically do not react rationally to problems like this.  We are a country that tolerates  - even expects - government to take a paternalistic role when it comes to so-called personal morality.  What's more, we expect that every part of popular culture be sanitized and dumbed down to the point where it is appropriate for toddlers.

     I also reacted strongly because I am very uncomfortable with the therapy culture I see developing around me.  People are too willing to transfer responsibility for their personal failings to some external factor.  They are too willing to seek treatment for diseases that may or may not even exist.  Now, I do not dispute that some compulsive behaviors do require outside intervention - compulsive gambling for one.  But I believe that the move to label gaming as "addictive" was too quick and driven more by hysteria than by real science.  The more talk there is about gaming addiction in the mass media, the more people will become convinced that they suffer from it.   Of course there are lonely and troubled people who spend excessive amounts of time playing games - particularly MMOs.  But I reject the assertion that someone can be transformed negatively (or positively for that matter) by exposure to an electronic game."People are too willing to transfer responsibility for their personal failings to some external factor."




         Despite the differences in our wording I think we're agreeing on most of it but
        disagreeing on slightly less significant details :) Were getting closer though :)

        u say

    "People are too willing to transfer responsibility for their personal failings to some external factor"

    Well lets look at what makes an idividual or a human being. In short its genetics from mum and dad and than experiences in life and the evolution of our personality in the mean time, more complex than I put it there.

    I caution underestimating the external factor(I talk of course of experience, all experiences I've no idea if anything is beyond that but if their is a almighty god or gods I wouldn't underestimate them either:))

    I don't know wethar I need to clafiy the impact of all/any experiences one has in life as far as characther development goes. Wethar its listening and learning to how to use language to communicate or playing a computer game they all have varying importance of which some are of special noteworthyness and genetics are out of ones control aswell

     Despite how intelligent or informed someone may believe they are they'll make mistakes and won't understand why unless they've been fortunate enough to learn how to deal with it either directly by someone else or by experience which taught them trial and error and even then they need something to happen in there life so they'd identify it as a mistake for whatever reason they'd consider it a mistake(if they're dealing with it alone offcourse, otherwise the dynamics of a community can and will help the person identify a problem aswell as create other problems :), depending on the community)

     I don't see a therapy culture as a problem, therapy isn't irrational(many irrationall theories going around in every corner of the globe and every profession) Generally I view Phycology as communication about ones life and a (hopefully) reserved and proffessional person listening and responding whilst reserving judgement. Psychiatry however deals with the actuall functioning of the human brain. Which of these you have a problem with I'm usure but don't share your fear of a therapy culture(I don't mean Oprah culture lol) but other than being predanitic thats about it


    PS Despite being able to do some extronidary things we are not and will never be in complete control of our lives, once again don't underestimate the external, wethar it be genetics experiences or a god/gods/supernatural)

    Afterall were born dependent on others and things out of our control, at which stage do we gain control (after our predestined genetics have caused the body to develop to a certain degree, after we've gone through schools with goverment controlled educational policies, after traditional or cultural expiences or our parents have eduacted/raised us or after a combination of the whole thing?
    Should the sins/mistakes of the mother father the state or anyone else or thing ever condeem someone to a life of misery?


    RECOGNISING THE INFLUENCES ON OUR LIVES HELPS US TAKE CONTROL OF THEM
    easier said than done!

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