Originally posted by Phoenixs I would love to play a free mmo. But besides Guild Wars there are no valuable free options.
Even if a game has no monthly fee it should have:
*Content, and new content released. *Good gameplay. *Fun. *Production values. *Nice graphics. *Nice sound and music. *A nice friendly and mature playerbase. *A community that is monitored by the devs, and stuff done by the devs to keep it healthy. *Developers that care. *Working server, up 24/7. *No cheating tolerated. Bots, hacks and so on should be banned asap.
So far I haven't found any game that can offer this. Except Guild Wars to a certain extent. But even Guild Wars has it's issues. Specially the community. You know what the first sentence i read in the Guild Wars chat was? "Wanna touch my boobs?" Great eh? Last night when I logged of Faction there was a swedish guy screaming out sexual insults to everyone in general.
Stuff like this seems to trouble all free mmo's and the devs don't really care. I have seen official screenshots of free mmo where you can see stuff like this.
That is why I pay for my mmo's, except Guild Wars.
Official games that are free that fit this (just off the top of my head):
Guild Wars
Anarchy Online - the graphics may not be cutting edge but they are certainly good enough).
Shadowbane - It's now officially staying online and being supported despite the WolfPack closure). Graphics aren't the greatest but they aren't horrid either. They are '3rd person', however, so that does take a little getting used to if you're newer to MMO's and don't remember UO at all.
PlanetSide (Reserves) - Very fun shooter. Awesome graphics. Largest MMOFPS on the market.
And of course there are a slew of unofficial free games out there that we won't talk about, suffice to say they are out there.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Zindaihas Remember the old saying, "you get what you pay for?" I mean I know it would be great if we didn't have to work for a living and could spend our entire lives playing MMO's, but the developers need to eat too. I agree that devs have a responsibility to do the best they can and put out a good product that is worth our hard earned dollars, to expect them to work for free is just asking too much.
Simple reason:
Because the fee based MMORPG's have, rather than improving, over the years actually gotten worse. It's widely agreed that UO (a 10 year old MMORPG) has better gameplay than almost any other MMORPG on the market. It also had better PVP than the vast majority of them as well.
So why on earth would I want to pay some company $15 a month when all they're doing is re-hashing the same features of games that have been out 6+ years (and generally do it worse than the original games) ??? I'm sorry, I just don't see why I should waste my money on a product that's sub-par. If game companies keep throwing garbage out just to make a buck eventually that market will dry up.
By the way, you're deluding yourself if you honestly think the lack of a monthly fee means the Devs would be working for free. box sales more than make up for the cost of developing a game if the game sells enough quantity. Guild Wars made over 60 million dollars ($US) in it's first year after release. There aren't many fee based MMO's that can make that claim besides WoW. Matter of fact I can't think of any.... Guild Wars devs get paid just fine... or do you really think Arena Net's development team is working for free?
The bottom line is simple:
Now that there are several very decent to high quality games out there that charge no monthly fee anyone who wants to charge a monthly fee is going to have to start upping the ante'. Because as people realize that they can get nearly the same quality of game for less than 1/4 the price they will continue to move to free to play MMORPG's.
Just as an example:
Standard Fee based MMO: $50 for the game... $15/month to play = $230 for a year of play.
Standard Non-Fee MMO: $50 for the game... No monthly fee = $50 for a year of play.
Standard Fee based MMO - 2 years: $410
Standard Non-Fee MMO - 2 years: $50
The math explains it better than my words possibly could.
So if you play an MMO for 2+ years it's insane to pay a monthly fee for it unless the quality is 8x that of the free game In my opinion.
QFT! The whole post is worth repeating. WOW is a perfect example of a game that was better at launch and has gotten worse with each patch. The more money you give these companies, the worse the games seem to get.
We're going on two years since WOW launched, and the devs seem focussed on creating more camp content and "fixing" class balance. I guess Blizzard is just to lazy to work on any REAL innovations. The best part of their company has become Flagship studios.
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Originally posted by Souldrainer Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Zindaihas Remember the old saying, "you get what you pay for?" I mean I know it would be great if we didn't have to work for a living and could spend our entire lives playing MMO's, but the developers need to eat too. I agree that devs have a responsibility to do the best they can and put out a good product that is worth our hard earned dollars, to expect them to work for free is just asking too much.
Simple reason:
Because the fee based MMORPG's have, rather than improving, over the years actually gotten worse. It's widely agreed that UO (a 10 year old MMORPG) has better gameplay than almost any other MMORPG on the market. It also had better PVP than the vast majority of them as well.
So why on earth would I want to pay some company $15 a month when all they're doing is re-hashing the same features of games that have been out 6+ years (and generally do it worse than the original games) ??? I'm sorry, I just don't see why I should waste my money on a product that's sub-par. If game companies keep throwing garbage out just to make a buck eventually that market will dry up.
By the way, you're deluding yourself if you honestly think the lack of a monthly fee means the Devs would be working for free. box sales more than make up for the cost of developing a game if the game sells enough quantity. Guild Wars made over 60 million dollars ($US) in it's first year after release. There aren't many fee based MMO's that can make that claim besides WoW. Matter of fact I can't think of any.... Guild Wars devs get paid just fine... or do you really think Arena Net's development team is working for free?
The bottom line is simple:
Now that there are several very decent to high quality games out there that charge no monthly fee anyone who wants to charge a monthly fee is going to have to start upping the ante'. Because as people realize that they can get nearly the same quality of game for less than 1/4 the price they will continue to move to free to play MMORPG's.
Just as an example:
Standard Fee based MMO: $50 for the game... $15/month to play = $230 for a year of play.
Standard Non-Fee MMO: $50 for the game... No monthly fee = $50 for a year of play.
Standard Fee based MMO - 2 years: $410
Standard Non-Fee MMO - 2 years: $50
The math explains it better than my words possibly could.
So if you play an MMO for 2+ years it's insane to pay a monthly fee for it unless the quality is 8x that of the free game In my opinion.
QFT! The whole post is worth repeating. WOW is a perfect example of a game that was better at launch and has gotten worse with each patch. The more money you give these companies, the worse the games seem to get.
We're going on two years since WOW launched, and the devs seem focussed on creating more camp content and "fixing" class balance. I guess Blizzard is just to lazy to work on any REAL innovations. The best part of their company has become Flagship studios.
Thanks for the props.
However I would point out that WOW has never been about 'innovation' or even 'new ideas'. The entire game is built around the concept of 'take the best ideas from other games and stick them in ours'. Everything in WoW has been done before. Blizzard just simplified it and stuck it into WoW.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Their all initial pay monthly mmo's. So they got all that up and running (Support, community and so on).
The "troubles" as I see them, are hitting the games that are totally free.
I agree. However, now that those games are out there, free to play the gauntlet has been thrown. Make a significantly better game or risk people realizing they get almost as much from these for free.
Bottom line: Guild Wars started a trend and AO jumped all over it. then Shadowbane and Planetside jumped aboard. The more established MMO's that wind up free-to-play the more pressure on the greater market there will be to make truely great games. Personally I'm GLAD AO went free to play and PS and SB. I hope even more do. I hope UO does (boy would that kick everyone in the teeth). Because then, and only then, will game companies start to realize (some already have) that you can't keep charging a monthly fee and expect people to keep forking it out hand-over-fist with little or no return on their investment.
To add insult to injury some of those players out there even charge you for expansions after suckering you into $180/year for a game that's barely supported as it is.
Yes, bandwidth costs money. Yes, dev teams cost a little money. So charge me a monthly fee... OR charge me for expansions that I have to buy. Do NOT expect me to do both. And the content updates BETTER be worth at least half of my monthly fee. Because less than half of what we pay in most MMO's is actually used for 'operating costs'. The large bulk of it is pure profit... especially once the game pays for it's development costs (usually in the 1st year).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I got reasons y. First u dont feel like u have to play because ur "paying" to play. If u gotta free game u can tkae a break when u dont want to play insted of cancling ur feee then like 2 months later u want to play for like 1 week u gotta send in the query and crap an then u cancle it. Its ya basically alot more freedom in free games
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience. 'cause everyone thinks they're right, And nobody thinks that there just might Be more than one road to our final destination--
I have recently taken up playing free games, and will likely let my pay-to-play subscriptions lapse, unless the EQ progression server turns out to be fun and interesting past the first two weeks.
Like some of the other posters, it isn't a money issue for me. I'm just not getting $15 worth of fun out of my subscriptions. EQ was once fun, but it has gotten to be a drag for me lately. I bought and tried WoW. I bought and tried FFXI. I did trials of DDO and RF Online recently. I even went back to UO at one point. I liked EQ2 ok, but my husband hated it, so that was a no go... At this point, I am not going to buy another box or pay another monthly fee without hearing good things from people I know personally who have a playstyle similar to mine. Or I will just wait to see if there is anything that can draw my husband away from EQ1.
On the other hand, since I don't mind a grindfest, there are plenty of games out there that I can mess around in without making any commitment while I wait to see if any of the next round of pay-to-play releases pans out. I don't think I am going to get into them in the same way I was once into UO and EQ, but they are fun little games if you don't expect too much.
Just my $0.02. That and $2.98 will buy you a decent cup of coffee.
... This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Originally posted by Elnator You keep sinking your $200 a year into a fee based MMO and I'll continue to play the free one that costs me nothing more than the original box cover and gives me almost as good (if not better) gameplay as the one you're playing. We'll see who's happier in the end
If that makes you happy, more power to you. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the games I'm playing. Who's happier? Happiness is not measurable by a meter, so good luck figuring that out.
Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by RollinDutch Mainly its younger-aged players who simply are unable or unwilling to pay for a MMOG.
The large majority of any free MMOG are these players, and in terms of the community that they bring, you get what you pay for.
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by RollinDutch Mainly its younger-aged players who simply are unable or unwilling to pay for a MMOG.
The large majority of any free MMOG are these players, and in terms of the community that they bring, you get what you pay for.
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom? I've never done silkroad or those other titles... But I have played WoW and Guild Wars... and the communities really aren't any different.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by RollinDutch Mainly its younger-aged players who simply are unable or unwilling to pay for a MMOG.
The large majority of any free MMOG are these players, and in terms of the community that they bring, you get what you pay for.
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom? I've never done silkroad or those other titles... But I have played WoW and Guild Wars... and the communities really aren't any different.
I can't agree here. Wow's community is not good, but it's better than in the free games. Since Blizzard enforces naming policies and let's you report users, cheaters and so better than in the free games. You also have rp servers and can change servers to find yourself a better community.
Are we seing another game turning free? Saga of Ryzom has a unlimited free trail now. Your locked to the starter island, yes, but it's a move more towards free. If that game turns free I would celebrate
Originally posted by Phoenixs Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by RollinDutch Mainly its younger-aged players who simply are unable or unwilling to pay for a MMOG.
The large majority of any free MMOG are these players, and in terms of the community that they bring, you get what you pay for.
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom? I've never done silkroad or those other titles... But I have played WoW and Guild Wars... and the communities really aren't any different.
I can't agree here. Wow's community is not good, but it's better than in the free games. Since Blizzard enforces naming policies and let's you report users, cheaters and so better than in the free games. You also have rp servers and can change servers to find yourself a better community.
Are we seing another game turning free? Saga of Ryzom has a unlimited free trail now. Your locked to the starter island, yes, but it's a move more towards free. If that game turns free I would celebrate
Errmmm... AO, SB & PS have all those features as well. and Guild Wars does have a naming rule set as well and they do actually smack players around that get too creative with the naming system.
But I agree... if SoR goes F2P they will really make a stir... That's another one I wouldn't subscribe to for a fee but free? Heck yes.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Phoenixs Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by RollinDutch Mainly its younger-aged players who simply are unable or unwilling to pay for a MMOG.
The large majority of any free MMOG are these players, and in terms of the community that they bring, you get what you pay for.
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom? I've never done silkroad or those other titles... But I have played WoW and Guild Wars... and the communities really aren't any different.
I can't agree here. Wow's community is not good, but it's better than in the free games. Since Blizzard enforces naming policies and let's you report users, cheaters and so better than in the free games. You also have rp servers and can change servers to find yourself a better community.
Are we seing another game turning free? Saga of Ryzom has a unlimited free trail now. Your locked to the starter island, yes, but it's a move more towards free. If that game turns free I would celebrate
Errmmm... AO, SB & PS have all those features as well. and Guild Wars does have a naming rule set as well and they do actually smack players around that get too creative with the naming system.
But I agree... if SoR goes F2P they will really make a stir... That's another one I wouldn't subscribe to for a fee but free? Heck yes.
Yes AO, SB and PS have it. I was thinking about Silkroad Online, Ryl2 and games like that. Yes Guild Wars has naming rules, but it's more about not allowing words like c*** and Hitler and stuff like that. But stuff like Mr T and all sorts of names you usually find in Cs aren't banned. These aren't exactly offensive but I find it rather sad to play the campaign alongside people named "retarded" names.
Originally posted by Phoenixs Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Phoenixs Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by RollinDutch Mainly its younger-aged players who simply are unable or unwilling to pay for a MMOG.
The large majority of any free MMOG are these players, and in terms of the community that they bring, you get what you pay for.
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom? I've never done silkroad or those other titles... But I have played WoW and Guild Wars... and the communities really aren't any different.
I can't agree here. Wow's community is not good, but it's better than in the free games. Since Blizzard enforces naming policies and let's you report users, cheaters and so better than in the free games. You also have rp servers and can change servers to find yourself a better community.
Are we seing another game turning free? Saga of Ryzom has a unlimited free trail now. Your locked to the starter island, yes, but it's a move more towards free. If that game turns free I would celebrate
Errmmm... AO, SB & PS have all those features as well. and Guild Wars does have a naming rule set as well and they do actually smack players around that get too creative with the naming system.
But I agree... if SoR goes F2P they will really make a stir... That's another one I wouldn't subscribe to for a fee but free? Heck yes.
Yes AO, SB and PS have it. I was thinking about Silkroad Online, Ryl2 and games like that. Yes Guild Wars has naming rules, but it's more about not allowing words like c*** and Hitler and stuff like that. But stuff like Mr T and all sorts of names you usually find in Cs aren't banned. These aren't exactly offensive but I find it rather sad to play the campaign alongside people named "retarded" names.
Right but you're missing the point: There are free options out there that are just as good (an in many cases better) than the vast majority of fee Based MMORPG's. That offer all the same features of the fee based ones.
Because of that many people are starting to re-evaluate their willingness to sink $200 a year into an MMO when there are free ones that are *almost* or *equally* as good, if not *better* than the ones charging $15 a month.
I listed four off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others in the same quality range that are free... Even if there aren't just those 4 is enough to start making people think. I know I am not the only one that has let all their subs lapse and is playing exclusively on those 4 games other than free trials and beta's.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
When EVE was abit new, I bought the game for $50 + tax. I joined a corp(guild) and started harvesting for the corp to earn myself a nice ship. I played harvested hardcore for 3 weeks. I gave the harvest to the corp in the promise of a nice ship in return. Then I was kicked from the corp and every member started PKing me. Noone would tell me what was going on. The corp leaders said it was a mistake and kept on luring me out to go to some place to be invited back to the guild. I gave them a benefit of the doubt, but I can only give them three times. Three times I left the safe haven and the corp tried to PK me. I keep pestering the local channel to tell me the reason for the PKing. After a long while, a corp member whispered me that I stole millions from the corp.
Seems like I got scammed, or maybe someone did steal millions. Or maybe the guild leaders stole millions and blame it on me.
I petition the Game Master (EVE staff), and he said he can do nothing.
I apologize for repeting this story a few times, but I just hate EVE so much.
This was the worst $50 I spent. Monthly fees dont guarantee good players and fun. Good thing this happened before the 3 month subscription kicked in. Would have been nice if this was a free game and I never spent the $50. I have never experienced this much hatred in other game (free or subscription base).
Seems like there are much more assholes in PvP games, whether free or subscriptions.
Originally posted by amappala >>When EVE was abit new, I bought the game for $50 + tax.I joined a corp.......
lol. owned. EVE is griefer's paradise, after all... The only game where scamming is not only supported by the staff but also encouraged by most of the "community". Then people talk about the quality of the community and payment relation... So, when considering the quality of the people who plays the game, a free vs. fee game is the last thing that comes to mind.
On the other hand, I can find a general correlation in terms of technical quality between fee and free games. Unfortunately, this difference in terms of quality and what the game can offer is not so big, and the two groups are kind of mixed. So it becomes necessary to consider it in a case by case basis.
Also, on the other hand, free/fee is the last thing that I consider when playing a mmorpg. Specially nowadays where it's only a matter of 200-300$ per year, tops. Consider the number of hours you play it.
People want free MMO's because the game companies are putting out mostly dogshit. But a free MMO does't mean that a developer doesn't have to get paid. There are plenty of options for people to put ads in game, and they don't have to take away the immersion. I would expound more but I am feeling lazy today.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
only the younger player base really want free games and they dont care much about if the game is really good and has great content...
its sad that the trend is going to this direction, that more and more cheap clone games, specially from asian are comming out with really not any new features or game content. they are just "free to play" and the youngster believe that, what is utter bullshat.
these games are not free at all, they have ingame stores and live well from it...the horrid grind is the reason, people buying xp pots etc..
all in all, most of the free games are just crap...i would rather pay for a game if the game is really good.
As interesting as this post is, i gotta say there's really no point for it. It seems to me when reading a bunch of these posts that ignorance is a virtue for many. There will always be ppl lookin for free games for w/e the reason. Who cares? The devs who made the game obviously knew what they were doing when they made the game which is why theyre not charging for it. And for those of u free-gamer haters well what do u want, a pat on the back cuz u can say that u are part of a superior community in a game world that contains superior graphics? Well then heres a virtual pat on the back..
In every game I have played (both free and monthly fee) there have been times when the community was great and times when ppl have been asses, it's part of life - you'll always find asses. Just cuz u pay for a game doesn't mean ur gonna be ass-free and cuz u dont pay a monthly fee doesnt mean u will have to put up w/ a bunch of garbage from players.
So basically, let the ppl who want to pay for a game pay - they have their reasons for paying. And let the ppl who don't want to pay look for free games - they have their reasons as well, and i can think of many - lookin for something new out of a game(like planeshift which is open source and some of their ideas seemed pretty good), can't afford monthly fees(yes there are ppl who can't afford a monthly fee but can afford a computer stop analyzing why and get over it), etc.
Originally posted by spizz only the younger player base really want free games and they dont care much about if the game is really good and has great content...
That true i play alot of free games but im not sayin that p2p games arnt fun msot of them are but f2p games like GW are fun its only $40US(at gamestop) Im not sayin WoW isnt good but it gets old
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience. 'cause everyone thinks they're right, And nobody thinks that there just might Be more than one road to our final destination--
QFT! The whole post is worth repeating. WOW is a perfect example of a game that was better at launch and has gotten worse with each patch. The more money you give these companies, the worse the games seem to get.
We're going on two years since WOW launched, and the devs seem focussed on creating more camp content and "fixing" class balance. I guess Blizzard is just to lazy to work on any REAL innovations. The best part of their company has become Flagship studios.
In a way it reminds me of movie sequels. Sequels are almost never as good as the original. But, of course, that doesn't always hold true. There are times when the sequels surpass the original. As far as MMORPGs go, I think that was true with EQ. To me, the game improved with Kunark and peaked with Velious. But then went downhill after that. That's the only game I stuck around long enough to play the expansions, so I don't know if its true for other ones. But I don't think there's any question that an MMORPG has to leave the gate strong or its in trouble. I hear EQ2 is better now than it was at launch, but for me it's too late, I have no intention of going back to it. If it doesn't fascinate me from the start, chances are I'll move on to something else.
Comments
Official games that are free that fit this (just off the top of my head):
And of course there are a slew of unofficial free games out there that we won't talk about, suffice to say they are out there.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
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3.
4.
Their all initial pay monthly mmo's. So they got all that up and running (Support, community and so on).
The "troubles" as I see them, are hitting the games that are totally free.
Simple reason:
Because the fee based MMORPG's have, rather than improving, over the years actually gotten worse. It's widely agreed that UO (a 10 year old MMORPG) has better gameplay than almost any other MMORPG on the market. It also had better PVP than the vast majority of them as well.
So why on earth would I want to pay some company $15 a month when all they're doing is re-hashing the same features of games that have been out 6+ years (and generally do it worse than the original games) ??? I'm sorry, I just don't see why I should waste my money on a product that's sub-par. If game companies keep throwing garbage out just to make a buck eventually that market will dry up.
By the way, you're deluding yourself if you honestly think the lack of a monthly fee means the Devs would be working for free. box sales more than make up for the cost of developing a game if the game sells enough quantity. Guild Wars made over 60 million dollars ($US) in it's first year after release. There aren't many fee based MMO's that can make that claim besides WoW. Matter of fact I can't think of any.... Guild Wars devs get paid just fine... or do you really think Arena Net's development team is working for free?
The bottom line is simple:
Now that there are several very decent to high quality games out there that charge no monthly fee anyone who wants to charge a monthly fee is going to have to start upping the ante'. Because as people realize that they can get nearly the same quality of game for less than 1/4 the price they will continue to move to free to play MMORPG's.
Just as an example:
The math explains it better than my words possibly could.
So if you play an MMO for 2+ years it's insane to pay a monthly fee for it unless the quality is 8x that of the free game
In my opinion.
QFT! The whole post is worth repeating. WOW is a perfect example of a game that was better at launch and has gotten worse with each patch. The more money you give these companies, the worse the games seem to get.
We're going on two years since WOW launched, and the devs seem focussed on creating more camp content and "fixing" class balance. I guess Blizzard is just to lazy to work on any REAL innovations. The best part of their company has become Flagship studios.
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The best part of their company has become Flagship studios.
Let's wait with that untill they release their first game
Simple reason:
Because the fee based MMORPG's have, rather than improving, over the years actually gotten worse. It's widely agreed that UO (a 10 year old MMORPG) has better gameplay than almost any other MMORPG on the market. It also had better PVP than the vast majority of them as well.
So why on earth would I want to pay some company $15 a month when all they're doing is re-hashing the same features of games that have been out 6+ years (and generally do it worse than the original games) ??? I'm sorry, I just don't see why I should waste my money on a product that's sub-par. If game companies keep throwing garbage out just to make a buck eventually that market will dry up.
By the way, you're deluding yourself if you honestly think the lack of a monthly fee means the Devs would be working for free. box sales more than make up for the cost of developing a game if the game sells enough quantity. Guild Wars made over 60 million dollars ($US) in it's first year after release. There aren't many fee based MMO's that can make that claim besides WoW. Matter of fact I can't think of any.... Guild Wars devs get paid just fine... or do you really think Arena Net's development team is working for free?
The bottom line is simple:
Now that there are several very decent to high quality games out there that charge no monthly fee anyone who wants to charge a monthly fee is going to have to start upping the ante'. Because as people realize that they can get nearly the same quality of game for less than 1/4 the price they will continue to move to free to play MMORPG's.
Just as an example:
The math explains it better than my words possibly could.
So if you play an MMO for 2+ years it's insane to pay a monthly fee for it unless the quality is 8x that of the free game
In my opinion.
QFT! The whole post is worth repeating. WOW is a perfect example of a game that was better at launch and has gotten worse with each patch. The more money you give these companies, the worse the games seem to get.
We're going on two years since WOW launched, and the devs seem focussed on creating more camp content and "fixing" class balance. I guess Blizzard is just to lazy to work on any REAL innovations. The best part of their company has become Flagship studios.
Thanks for the props.
However I would point out that WOW has never been about 'innovation' or even 'new ideas'. The entire game is built around the concept of 'take the best ideas from other games and stick them in ours'. Everything in WoW has been done before. Blizzard just simplified it and stuck it into WoW.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
However, now that those games are out there, free to play the gauntlet has been thrown. Make a significantly better game or risk people realizing they get almost as much from these for free.
Bottom line: Guild Wars started a trend and AO jumped all over it. then Shadowbane and Planetside jumped aboard. The more established MMO's that wind up free-to-play the more pressure on the greater market there will be to make truely great games. Personally I'm GLAD AO went free to play and PS and SB. I hope even more do. I hope UO does (boy would that kick everyone in the teeth). Because then, and only then, will game companies start to realize (some already have) that you can't keep charging a monthly fee and expect people to keep forking it out hand-over-fist with little or no return on their investment.
To add insult to injury some of those players out there even charge you for expansions after suckering you into $180/year for a game that's barely supported as it is.
Yes, bandwidth costs money. Yes, dev teams cost a little money. So charge me a monthly fee... OR charge me for expansions that I have to buy. Do NOT expect me to do both. And the content updates BETTER be worth at least half of my monthly fee. Because less than half of what we pay in most MMO's is actually used for 'operating costs'. The large bulk of it is pure profit... especially once the game pays for it's development costs (usually in the 1st year).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
I have recently taken up playing free games, and will likely let my pay-to-play subscriptions lapse, unless the EQ progression server turns out to be fun and interesting past the first two weeks.
Like some of the other posters, it isn't a money issue for me. I'm just not getting $15 worth of fun out of my subscriptions. EQ was once fun, but it has gotten to be a drag for me lately. I bought and tried WoW. I bought and tried FFXI. I did trials of DDO and RF Online recently. I even went back to UO at one point. I liked EQ2 ok, but my husband hated it, so that was a no go... At this point, I am not going to buy another box or pay another monthly fee without hearing good things from people I know personally who have a playstyle similar to mine. Or I will just wait to see if there is anything that can draw my husband away from EQ1.
On the other hand, since I don't mind a grindfest, there are plenty of games out there that I can mess around in without making any commitment while I wait to see if any of the next round of pay-to-play releases pans out. I don't think I am going to get into them in the same way I was once into UO and EQ, but they are fun little games if you don't expect too much.
Just my $0.02. That and $2.98 will buy you a decent cup of coffee.
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
If that makes you happy, more power to you. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the games I'm playing. Who's happier? Happiness is not measurable by a meter, so good luck figuring that out.
I completely disagree.
So where does that leave us?
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom?
I can't agree here. Wow's community is not good, but it's better than in the free games. Since Blizzard enforces naming policies and let's you report users, cheaters and so better than in the free games. You also have rp servers and can change servers to find yourself a better community.
Are we seing another game turning free? Saga of Ryzom has a unlimited free trail now. Your locked to the starter island, yes, but it's a move more towards free. If that game turns free I would celebrate
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom?
I can't agree here. Wow's community is not good, but it's better than in the free games. Since Blizzard enforces naming policies and let's you report users, cheaters and so better than in the free games. You also have rp servers and can change servers to find yourself a better community.
Are we seing another game turning free? Saga of Ryzom has a unlimited free trail now. Your locked to the starter island, yes, but it's a move more towards free. If that game turns free I would celebrate
Errmmm... AO, SB & PS have all those features as well. and Guild Wars does have a naming rule set as well and they do actually smack players around that get too creative with the naming system.
But I agree... if SoR goes F2P they will really make a stir... That's another one I wouldn't subscribe to for a fee but free? Heck yes.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom?
I can't agree here. Wow's community is not good, but it's better than in the free games. Since Blizzard enforces naming policies and let's you report users, cheaters and so better than in the free games. You also have rp servers and can change servers to find yourself a better community.
Are we seing another game turning free? Saga of Ryzom has a unlimited free trail now. Your locked to the starter island, yes, but it's a move more towards free. If that game turns free I would celebrate
Errmmm... AO, SB & PS have all those features as well. and Guild Wars does have a naming rule set as well and they do actually smack players around that get too creative with the naming system.
But I agree... if SoR goes F2P they will really make a stir... That's another one I wouldn't subscribe to for a fee but free? Heck yes.
Yes AO, SB and PS have it. I was thinking about Silkroad Online, Ryl2 and games like that. Yes Guild Wars has naming rules, but it's more about not allowing words like c*** and Hitler and stuff like that. But stuff like Mr T and all sorts of names you usually find in Cs aren't banned. These aren't exactly offensive but I find it rather sad to play the campaign alongside people named "retarded" names.
Th/en can you explain the WoW community at $15 a month? The PSO community at $10 a month? Or why MxO which as far as gameplay isn't very well done and cost $15 a month but trumps the community in almost every other game on the market?
Cost has proven little relation to community nor quality of a game.
the WoW community is considered mature compared to games like Silkroad, runescape,guild wars and Maple story.
By whom?
I can't agree here. Wow's community is not good, but it's better than in the free games. Since Blizzard enforces naming policies and let's you report users, cheaters and so better than in the free games. You also have rp servers and can change servers to find yourself a better community.
Are we seing another game turning free? Saga of Ryzom has a unlimited free trail now. Your locked to the starter island, yes, but it's a move more towards free. If that game turns free I would celebrate
Errmmm... AO, SB & PS have all those features as well. and Guild Wars does have a naming rule set as well and they do actually smack players around that get too creative with the naming system.
But I agree... if SoR goes F2P they will really make a stir... That's another one I wouldn't subscribe to for a fee but free? Heck yes.
Yes AO, SB and PS have it. I was thinking about Silkroad Online, Ryl2 and games like that. Yes Guild Wars has naming rules, but it's more about not allowing words like c*** and Hitler and stuff like that. But stuff like Mr T and all sorts of names you usually find in Cs aren't banned. These aren't exactly offensive but I find it rather sad to play the campaign alongside people named "retarded" names.
Right but you're missing the point:
There are free options out there that are just as good (an in many cases better) than the vast majority of fee Based MMORPG's. That offer all the same features of the fee based ones.
Because of that many people are starting to re-evaluate their willingness to sink $200 a year into an MMO when there are free ones that are *almost* or *equally* as good, if not *better* than the ones charging $15 a month.
I listed four off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others in the same quality range that are free... Even if there aren't just those 4 is enough to start making people think. I know I am not the only one that has let all their subs lapse and is playing exclusively on those 4 games other than free trials and beta's.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
When EVE was abit new, I bought the game for $50 + tax.
I joined a corp(guild) and started harvesting for the corp to earn myself a nice ship.
I played harvested hardcore for 3 weeks.
I gave the harvest to the corp in the promise of a nice ship in return.
Then I was kicked from the corp and every member started PKing me.
Noone would tell me what was going on.
The corp leaders said it was a mistake and kept on luring me out to go to some place to be invited back to the guild.
I gave them a benefit of the doubt, but I can only give them three times.
Three times I left the safe haven and the corp tried to PK me.
I keep pestering the local channel to tell me the reason for the PKing.
After a long while, a corp member whispered me that I stole millions from the corp.
Seems like I got scammed, or maybe someone did steal millions.
Or maybe the guild leaders stole millions and blame it on me.
I petition the Game Master (EVE staff), and he said he can do nothing.
I apologize for repeting this story a few times, but I just hate EVE so much.
This was the worst $50 I spent.
Monthly fees dont guarantee good players and fun.
Good thing this happened before the 3 month subscription kicked in.
Would have been nice if this was a free game and I never spent the $50.
I have never experienced this much hatred in other game (free or subscription base).
Seems like there are much more assholes in PvP games, whether free or subscriptions.
Originally posted by amappala
>>When EVE was abit new, I bought the game for $50 + tax.I joined a corp.......
lol. owned. EVE is griefer's paradise, after all... The only game where scamming is not only supported by the staff but also encouraged by most of the "community". Then people talk about the quality of the community and payment relation...
So, when considering the quality of the people who plays the game, a free vs. fee game is the last thing that comes to mind.
On the other hand, I can find a general correlation in terms of technical quality between fee and free games. Unfortunately, this difference in terms of quality and what the game can offer is not so big, and the two groups are kind of mixed. So it becomes necessary to consider it in a case by case basis.
Also, on the other hand, free/fee is the last thing that I consider when playing a mmorpg. Specially nowadays where it's only a matter of 200-300$ per year, tops. Consider the number of hours you play it.
Personally i dont no why people would whant free mmorpgs purley for the reason i would rarver pay for good graphics , dont you agree?
Monkeytroll
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion , even if it is totally wrong." (Johny Depp)
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
My computer sucks, I don't wanna pay for something that barely runs.
until i get my new computer I will stay addicted to free MMO's such as Shadowbane, StargateGE and NWN
its sad that the trend is going to this direction, that more and more cheap clone games, specially from asian are comming out with really not any new features or game content. they are just "free to play" and the youngster believe that, what is utter bullshat.
these games are not free at all, they have ingame stores and live well from it...the horrid grind is the reason, people buying xp pots etc..
all in all, most of the free games are just crap...i would rather pay for a game if the game is really good.
As interesting as this post is, i gotta say there's really no point for it. It seems to me when reading a bunch of these posts that ignorance is a virtue for many. There will always be ppl lookin for free games for w/e the reason. Who cares? The devs who made the game obviously knew what they were doing when they made the game which is why theyre not charging for it. And for those of u free-gamer haters well what do u want, a pat on the back cuz u can say that u are part of a superior community in a game world that contains superior graphics? Well then heres a virtual pat on the back..
In every game I have played (both free and monthly fee) there have been times when the community was great and times when ppl have been asses, it's part of life - you'll always find asses. Just cuz u pay for a game doesn't mean ur gonna be ass-free and cuz u dont pay a monthly fee doesnt mean u will have to put up w/ a bunch of garbage from players.
So basically, let the ppl who want to pay for a game pay - they have their reasons for paying. And let the ppl who don't want to pay look for free games - they have their reasons as well, and i can think of many - lookin for something new out of a game(like planeshift which is open source and some of their ideas seemed pretty good), can't afford monthly fees(yes there are ppl who can't afford a monthly fee but can afford a computer stop analyzing why and get over it), etc.
Which FF Character Are You?
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by Souldrainer
QFT! The whole post is worth repeating. WOW is a perfect example of a game that was better at launch and has gotten worse with each patch. The more money you give these companies, the worse the games seem to get.
We're going on two years since WOW launched, and the devs seem focussed on creating more camp content and "fixing" class balance. I guess Blizzard is just to lazy to work on any REAL innovations. The best part of their company has become Flagship studios.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
In a way it reminds me of movie sequels. Sequels are almost never as good as the original. But, of course, that doesn't always hold true. There are times when the sequels surpass the original. As far as MMORPGs go, I think that was true with EQ. To me, the game improved with Kunark and peaked with Velious. But then went downhill after that. That's the only game I stuck around long enough to play the expansions, so I don't know if its true for other ones. But I don't think there's any question that an MMORPG has to leave the gate strong or its in trouble. I hear EQ2 is better now than it was at launch, but for me it's too late, I have no intention of going back to it. If it doesn't fascinate me from the start, chances are I'll move on to something else.