Originally posted by razzielle One other note on the merger. WAR beta comes out at the end of this year. Now check this from the article: The acquisition is subject to customary closing conditions, including regulatory approvals, and is expected to close during EA’s second quarter of fiscal 2007. Financial terms of the transaction were not disclosed. That's about a year away.
Let's see. End of SECOND QUARTER OF FISCAL 2007. Let's get a check on that. Yeah I'm sure. Economics rule. And before you try another repost, I did not say EXACTLY a year or IN JUNE, I said ABOUT a year meaning close to, near, in the proximity. In any case it's still pass the beta release.
Originally posted by JulianDracos As for WAR, I would not worry. WAR will mostly if not completly be done prior to the accusition. Further, WAR is a licensed product. They must work with GW to ensure that GW is happy. So, if EA tries to take the game in a wrong direction, they can say that EA Mythic is in violation of the terms of the contract and pull the license.
Yup, they pull the license. Then what? Oh, they pulled the license that means we won't be able to play WAR.
You're right, GW would pull the license. Then sell it to another MMO company which would set back our play date, EA and mythic would lose profit, and GW would conitnue with it's plans. But this is a HUGE what if. Personally I still think the initial shock is overplayed and people naturally are taking it to extremes. We all keep tearing out little sections of articles and trying to decipher them like a davinci code and the 2 companies have barely shaken hands (yes I know this started in february). The talks haven't even started yet, they'll last for months due to legal processes, then we'll see the finished product. People can decide then. What ever happened to the old days when you jumped ship AFTER the iceberg struck
ea is just like soe get that. They are ruled by shareholders and profit. The people who own soe and ea dont even know what a mmog is. For see able future. Daoc will be scraped and the free games will be sued and stamped out. War will most likely be toned down on the violence to hit a pg rateing and be pushed to be compatable with consoles. The game we were hopeing for is probly dead. GW more than likely is gonna pull the plug and find yet another company.
Granted its a doomsday prophacy but if satan said he reformed and learned his lessons and made a church youd still say its a church of satan.
Ill wait and see but im in shock and have deep reservations.
Originally posted by JulianDracos As for WAR, I would not worry. WAR will mostly if not completly be done prior to the accusition. Further, WAR is a licensed product. They must work with GW to ensure that GW is happy. So, if EA tries to take the game in a wrong direction, they can say that EA Mythic is in violation of the terms of the contract and pull the license.
Like with SWG?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by JulianDracos As for WAR, I would not worry. WAR will mostly if not completly be done prior to the accusition. Further, WAR is a licensed product. They must work with GW to ensure that GW is happy. So, if EA tries to take the game in a wrong direction, they can say that EA Mythic is in violation of the terms of the contract and pull the license.
Like with SWG?
I learned my lesson with $OE. Will EA be any different? I have my doubts. The future of WH is in jeopardy!
Originally posted by kyme Originally posted by FadeusOriginally posted by JulianDracosAs for WAR, I would not worry. WAR will mostly if not completly be done prior to the accusition. Further, WAR is a licensed product. They must work with GW to ensure that GW is happy. So, if EA tries to take the game in a wrong direction, they can say that EA Mythic is in violation of the terms of the contract and pull the license. Like with SWG? I learned my lesson with $OE. Will EA be any different? I have my doubts. The future of WH is in jeopardy!
EA has already proven to be worse. They have cancelled 3 mmo projects I beleive now and re-released UO with a spoonful of new content about 5 times. And we all know how well TSO is doing.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
This news made me cancel my accounts today, sadly... DAOC is a great game but my money is NOT going to anyone even remotely involved with EA. No Warhammer for me either...
What a bunch of lousy Sell-Outs and Liers. After months upon months of maintaining that Mythic would remain independent, they do this!
What good can come of it for DAoC and the upcomming Warhammer?
Time to change my Warhammer Hype to 1.0. No way am I going to plunk down cash for any MMORPG associated with EA. They have absolutely not a CLUE as to how to run one.
Where in the article did they mention the sky was falling?
OMG people.. chill out! Mythic has long been regarded as one of the greatest MMORPG companies around. Give them some slack... I'm sure the decision wasn't made lightly.
With my respect for Mythic, I will defintely wait and see how things pan out before deciding if it was a good move or not... and I'm certainly not pressing the /cancel button on a company and it's game based on what I or others *think* might happen!
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Originally posted by Terridol Originally posted by freethinker Hey guys...chill out now. They COULD have been bought out by SOE
AMEN... Can you imagine if they did.
Hmm lets compare: EA: 6 MMO's in their history. 3 collapsed, 2 on life support 1, the all time greatest MMO ever, is slowly dying because of the changes they've made to it.
SOE: 4 MMO's in their history. 3 of which were in the top 8 subscriber wise, 2 still are. One was the de-facto industry leader for 7 years.... 4th is the #1 MMOFPS on the market.
Much as I don't like the way SOE handles most of it's titles I have to say that they'd have been better than EA.
Also, if you honestly believe Mythic will still exist 5 years from now I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. Every company they bought out has been utterly destroyed within 2-5 years. Origin, Kesmai and others all gone now. Once trend-setters in the gaming industry.
EA is the kiss of death. I won't touch 'em with a 10 foot pole. Ask some E&B players... or MPBT players how well EA handles MMO projects.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by JonMichael Where in the article did they mention the sky was falling? OMG people.. chill out! Mythic has long been regarded as one of the greatest MMORPG companies around. Give them some slack... I'm sure the decision wasn't made lightly. With my respect for Mythic, I will defintely wait and see how things pan out before deciding if it was a good move or not... and I'm certainly not pressing the /cancel button on a company and it's game based on what I or others *think* might happen!
Origin Systems Incorporated was once regarded as the PREMIER maker of video games too. They were the creators of Ultima 3-XI, Wing Commander, Privateer, etc.
Guess who bought them out.: EA
Do they still exist?: NO
Sorry... EA's track record is a flawless, impeccable, history of utterly destroying every company they buy out and devastating every MMO they touch. They don't have a SINGLE successful MMO title (and they've had 6, MORE than SOE has put out). They're the kiss of death in this industry.
Will history repeat itself with Mythic? I honestly don't know.... but given the track record involved here? I would be VERY surprised if Mythic survives past 3 years as a subsidiary of EA.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I see lots of people throwing around facts, truths, half-truths, fabrications and lots of things in between. Let's really look at some incontrovertible facts:
1) There is nobody who is posting here who knows all the facts regarding the closing of EA studios. Unless you are Richard or Robert Garriot, Louis Castle, Brent Sperry or my good friends John Taylor and Kelton Flinn (from Kesmai), you cannot say why those studios were closed. Thus, either defending the studios or attacking them or defending EA or attacking it is pointless.
2) EA has never closed down an online game that was highly profitable at the time it was shutdown. EA has kept UO running for almost 9 years. I think it is safe to say that most of the games that were shut down were not financial successes for the studios/EA.
3) EA is a business, Mythic is a business and GW is a business. Speaking for Mythic and GW, I can say that we are both driven to make great products everytime we create something. I believe that EA feels the same way but since I am new here (I'm writing this from BC), I can't say that they always wanted to make great games simply because I wasn't part of EA until now. Judging by what I saw today, I think they are absolutely driven to make great games. However, we are also all businesses and need to make profits and survive. EA and GW are publicly traded comapnies and thus have a duty to their shareholders to be profitable.
4) The risks to Mythic and WAR are less today because of the EA deal than they were two days ago. If Mythic had screwed up with WAR's development and we were very late in delivering it, there was nobody who could bail us out. Making anything of the scale of WAR is hard and I would be guilty of hubris if I said that there was no chance Mythic would screw up. No company nor any individual gos through life without making mistakes. In the case of WAR, if we made a mistake and we were independent, bad things would happen, that is a simple fact of life.
5) The MMO market is getting more competitive every year and while I thought we would be just fine, if I was wrong, 170+ people would have lost their jobs.
6) EA is more than just interested in WAR, they have become true believers in the game. It took many months, lots of conversations and demos and finally E3 for them to share our faith. It was that faith that led to the deal. If they didn't share that faith we wouldn't have done the deal, period. All the guys who will be involved going forward with Mythic (marketing, etc.) are not only DAoC players but WoW players as well. These guys know and love the genre. Mythic is not dealing with some guys who said "Gee, we know this MMO thing is hot so we want in" (as some companies who talked to Mythic said) but rather, a bunch of hardcore gamers who know and love these types of games.
7) As I've said before, nobody from Mythic is going anywhere from EA's perspective (meaning no layoffs, riffs, etc.) and I'm not going anywhere either. I made a promise to GW that we were going to bust a gut in order to make a great Warhammer MMO. I make very few promises and I do not break my promises, ever. I love the guys at GW (but not in a LoTR hobbits jumping up on the bed way, thank you very much) and I'm not going to let anything bad happen to their beloved IP.
I know that no matter what I say, there will be people saying the exact opposite. I will remind people (especially the new folks here) that many months ago when I first started posting here many people were skeptical and some were downright hostile. I said that I could accept that but I asked for people to judge our results for themselves. Since then Mythic has done what no other maker of a large-scale MMO has ever done before, go to E3 with only 9 months into development and create a kick-Royal Hiny game that won a lot of awards and got lots of people (fans of WH and non-fans) talking about the game and not talking about hype, demos, renders, etc. but talking about the playable game that they saw working. I will say the same thing to you now, watch what we do and decide for yourselves whether I am telling you the truth or not. And if I'm wrong, I'll be the first one here to say so and the blame will fall squarely on my shoulders.
I am truly sorry that the EA deal has caused so much concern and upset in the community. I hope to make it up to you by releasing a game that will stand as the finest game Mythic has ever done and something that EA, Mythic and GW can be proud of now and in the future.
It reminds me too much of other corporate things. Big corporations buying little corporations and then imposing their business model on them. And then eventually all of them merge into one. And then squashing us with no remorse.
I liked Mythic. I always had this feeling that they were the rebel company. The one that was bucking the trend and actually listening to us. Now, I'm afraid they're going to go the way of all the other mergers.
I hate the corporate world. I understand it's a necessity, but I still hate it never the less.
Originally posted by Fabled1 Aw common guys, we cant just assume that DAoC and WAR are gonna be killed. Im sure the DEVs will be the same and evrything , it will be called EA Mythic, not just EA.
Originally posted by Terridol Originally posted by freethinker Hey guys...chill out now. They COULD have been bought out by SOE
AMEN... Can you imagine if they did. Considering EA history of canning 5 or 6 mmorpg how can it compare to SoE or any other company.Yes your precious SWG has been changed but it exists.Wish the E&B fans could say the same for their game!
Originally posted by razzielle I see lots of people throwing around facts, truths, half-truths, fabrications and lots of things in between. Let's really look at some incontrovertible facts:
1) There is nobody who is posting here who knows all the facts regarding the closing of EA studios. Unless you are Richard or Robert Garriot, Louis Castle, Brent Sperry or my good friends John Taylor and Kelton Flinn (from Kesmai), you cannot say why those studios were closed. Thus, either defending the studios or attacking them or defending EA or attacking it is pointless.
2) EA has never closed down an online game that was highly profitable at the time it was shutdown. EA has kept UO running for almost 9 years. I think it is safe to say that most of the games that were shut down were not financial successes for the studios/EA.
3) EA is a business, Mythic is a business and GW is a business. Speaking for Mythic and GW, I can say that we are both driven to make great products everytime we create something. I believe that EA feels the same way but since I am new here (I'm writing this from BC), I can't say that they always wanted to make great games simply because I wasn't part of EA until now. Judging by what I saw today, I think they are absolutely driven to make great games. However, we are also all businesses and need to make profits and survive. EA and GW are publicly traded comapnies and thus have a duty to their shareholders to be profitable.
4) The risks to Mythic and WAR are less today because of the EA deal than they were two days ago. If Mythic had screwed up with WAR's development and we were very late in delivering it, there was nobody who could bail us out. Making anything of the scale of WAR is hard and I would be guilty of hubris if I said that there was no chance Mythic would screw up. No company nor any individual gos through life without making mistakes. In the case of WAR, if we made a mistake and we were independent, bad things would happen, that is a simple fact of life.
5) The MMO market is getting more competitive every year and while I thought we would be just fine, if I was wrong, 170+ people would have lost their jobs.
6) EA is more than just interested in WAR, they have become true believers in the game. It took many months, lots of conversations and demos and finally E3 for them to share our faith. It was that faith that led to the deal. If they didn't share that faith we wouldn't have done the deal, period. All the guys who will be involved going forward with Mythic (marketing, etc.) are not only DAoC players but WoW players as well. These guys know and love the genre. Mythic is not dealing with some guys who said "Gee, we know this MMO thing is hot so we want in" (as some companies who talked to Mythic said) but rather, a bunch of hardcore gamers who know and love these types of games.
7) As I've said before, nobody from Mythic is going anywhere from EA's perspective (meaning no layoffs, riffs, etc.) and I'm not going anywhere either. I made a promise to GW that we were going to bust a gut in order to make a great Warhammer MMO. I make very few promises and I do not break my promises, ever. I love the guys at GW (but not in a LoTR hobbits jumping up on the bed way, thank you very much) and I'm not going to let anything bad happen to their beloved IP.
I know that no matter what I say, there will be people saying the exact opposite. I will remind people (especially the new folks here) that many months ago when I first started posting here many people were skeptical and some were downright hostile. I said that I could accept that but I asked for people to judge our results for themselves. Since then Mythic has done what no other maker of a large-scale MMO has ever done before, go to E3 with only 9 months into development and create a kick-Royal Hiny game that won a lot of awards and got lots of people (fans of WH and non-fans) talking about the game and not talking about hype, demos, renders, etc. but talking about the playable game that they saw working. I will say the same thing to you now, watch what we do and decide for yourselves whether I am telling you the truth or not. And if I'm wrong, I'll be the first one here to say so and the blame will fall squarely on my shoulders.
I am truly sorry that the EA deal has caused so much concern and upset in the community. I hope to make it up to you by releasing a game that will stand as the finest game Mythic has ever done and something that EA, Mythic and GW can be proud of now and in the future.
Mark>>>>
Thank you very much. It's posts like these that keep me going when the weight of negative posts start to come crashing on my head.
Originally posted by razzielle I see lots of people throwing around facts, truths, half-truths, fabrications and lots of things in between. Let's really look at some incontrovertible facts:
5) The MMO market is getting more competitive every year and while I thought we would be just fine, if I was wrong, 170+ people would have lost their jobs.
Mark>>>>
And that drive and responsibility is what pushes people to excel, diamonds are made under pressure. What will you do when the EA executives and upper management start telling you what to do based upon their studies, when you have a gut feel they are wrong?
Here is a fact for you, I have been playing computer games for over 25 years. Graphics aside, Ultima Online in it's original form and design is the absolute best game I have ever played, period.
Whatever EA did to cause the original Origin developers to leave, they did cause them to leave. After they left, under the control of EA and it's own appointed developers, EA immediately began making huge changes to the core game.
As a result, Ultima Online went from THE best game I have ever played to one of the worst MMOGs I have ever played. That's pretty drastic.
Well, you made your bed (with EA in it) now you get to sleep in it. Seriously, it's your guys company so you can do what ever you want with it. If this turns out to be a bad move on your part, then being under EA's leash will be punishment enough. Good luck, I REALLY hope you know what your doing.
DON'T LEAVE EA AND WARHAMMER IN THE SAME ROOM TOGETHER ALONE!
.....................................
...but time flows like a river...
...and history repeats...
-Leader of "The Fighting Irish" in DAoC on Hib/Kay-
Originally posted by razzielle I see lots of people throwing around facts, truths, half-truths, fabrications and lots of things in between. Let's really look at some incontrovertible facts:
1) There is nobody who is posting here who knows all the facts regarding the closing of EA studios. Unless you are Richard or Robert Garriot, Louis Castle, Brent Sperry or my good friends John Taylor and Kelton Flinn (from Kesmai), you cannot say why those studios were closed. Thus, either defending the studios or attacking them or defending EA or attacking it is pointless.
2) EA has never closed down an online game that was highly profitable at the time it was shutdown. EA has kept UO running for almost 9 years. I think it is safe to say that most of the games that were shut down were not financial successes for the studios/EA.
3) EA is a business, Mythic is a business and GW is a business. Speaking for Mythic and GW, I can say that we are both driven to make great products everytime we create something. I believe that EA feels the same way but since I am new here (I'm writing this from BC), I can't say that they always wanted to make great games simply because I wasn't part of EA until now. Judging by what I saw today, I think they are absolutely driven to make great games. However, we are also all businesses and need to make profits and survive. EA and GW are publicly traded comapnies and thus have a duty to their shareholders to be profitable.
4) The risks to Mythic and WAR are less today because of the EA deal than they were two days ago. If Mythic had screwed up with WAR's development and we were very late in delivering it, there was nobody who could bail us out. Making anything of the scale of WAR is hard and I would be guilty of hubris if I said that there was no chance Mythic would screw up. No company nor any individual gos through life without making mistakes. In the case of WAR, if we made a mistake and we were independent, bad things would happen, that is a simple fact of life.
5) The MMO market is getting more competitive every year and while I thought we would be just fine, if I was wrong, 170+ people would have lost their jobs.
6) EA is more than just interested in WAR, they have become true believers in the game. It took many months, lots of conversations and demos and finally E3 for them to share our faith. It was that faith that led to the deal. If they didn't share that faith we wouldn't have done the deal, period. All the guys who will be involved going forward with Mythic (marketing, etc.) are not only DAoC players but WoW players as well. These guys know and love the genre. Mythic is not dealing with some guys who said "Gee, we know this MMO thing is hot so we want in" (as some companies who talked to Mythic said) but rather, a bunch of hardcore gamers who know and love these types of games.
7) As I've said before, nobody from Mythic is going anywhere from EA's perspective (meaning no layoffs, riffs, etc.) and I'm not going anywhere either. I made a promise to GW that we were going to bust a gut in order to make a great Warhammer MMO. I make very few promises and I do not break my promises, ever. I love the guys at GW (but not in a LoTR hobbits jumping up on the bed way, thank you very much) and I'm not going to let anything bad happen to their beloved IP.
I know that no matter what I say, there will be people saying the exact opposite. I will remind people (especially the new folks here) that many months ago when I first started posting here many people were skeptical and some were downright hostile. I said that I could accept that but I asked for people to judge our results for themselves. Since then Mythic has done what no other maker of a large-scale MMO has ever done before, go to E3 with only 9 months into development and create a kick-Royal Hiny game that won a lot of awards and got lots of people (fans of WH and non-fans) talking about the game and not talking about hype, demos, renders, etc. but talking about the playable game that they saw working. I will say the same thing to you now, watch what we do and decide for yourselves whether I am telling you the truth or not. And if I'm wrong, I'll be the first one here to say so and the blame will fall squarely on my shoulders.
I am truly sorry that the EA deal has caused so much concern and upset in the community. I hope to make it up to you by releasing a game that will stand as the finest game Mythic has ever done and something that EA, Mythic and GW can be proud of now and in the future.
Mark>>>>
No offense to Mark, and like I said, this doesn't affect my willingness to try WAR out when it is released... it does give me concerns over the long term viability of Mythic.
I know why Origin was destroyed by EA because the former CEO of Origin gave a very detailed account of what happened to the company. Bottom line: EA killed the company. In 1992 when they bought Origin it was largely unchanged, much like the Mythic Deal actually. Origin was allowed to 'do their own thing'. Then in 1997 after UO was released EA decided to make Origin's focus "online only" once they released Ultima IX. However in 1999 they completely subsumed the company. Partially due to project delays and process failures on Origin's part (their own fault, I know) revolving around Ultima Online 2 and UO IX. Privateer Online (which was in early concept development at the time) was cancelled as well.
If you wikipedia the company you'll find a lot of this detail but it does look like someone added "Harry Potter Online" to the list of titles they were working on, which I believe is incorrect.
After Origin's projects were cancelled they were reduced to a 'project team' within EA that was soley focussed on supporting and maintaining UO. They were later tasked with developing Ultima X: Odyssey, but that one got cancelled too.
As for Kesmai, I don't know a great deal about what went on there. However I do know that even the developers on MBPT:3025 didn't know why EA was cancelling the game. All their projected numbers showed them that the game should have been a huge hit. From one of the largest open betas ever (remember this was before DAOC released even) with thousands upon thousands of players to the fact that the BattleTech name was HUGE in PC gaming at the time. Theories abound but, as Mark said, nobody but EA knows the real reason the project was canned. And I suspect even John and Kelton don't really know why EA decided to subsume/destroy Kesmai. Though I'm sure they have a better clue than I.
But the fact remains:
Under EA's Management the following MMORPG's have failed:
Privateer: Online - Cancelled during early development (note this was based on probably the single most popular Sci-Fi game ever. EVE probably would never have seen the light of day if this had been released properly)
Ultima Online 2 - Cancelled despite MASSIVE interest in the entire MMO community.
Ultima X: Odyssey - Cancelled despite MASSIVE interest in the Ultima community, and the RPG community in general.
Earth & Beyond - Cancelled at 37k subs (and it was growing)
Motor City Online - This one was a flop from day 1
The Sims (The Sims 2 isn't exactly doing well either)
MPBT 3025 (Cancelled literally, weeks, prior to release despite massive interest from the BattleTech community from all angles: Microsoft games players (mechwarrior), Tabletop players, and long time followers of Kesmai through all the previous iterations of Battletech Online.)
There's another but I can't remember it at the moment.
The only MMORPG under their management that's remotely profitable is UO and ever since they canned almost everyone at Origin it's been going steadily downhill (2000).
So while I appreciate that Mark is trying to allay everyone's fears I have to call "BS" on his statements. While I agree that EA and Mythic are businesses and that EA does give Mythic a much needed 'safety net'. I am very concerned that Mythic is in very dangerous waters with a very nasty shark that WILL pounce at the first sign of blood in the water.
The track record is there. Hell we've ALREADY been lied to. Need we quote Mark's letter to the community not more than 3 months ago that specifically stated that Mythic would NOT be selling to EA (or any other company).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
As much as everyone is talking doom, there are ceratin things people need to remember. EA is a billion dollar company. In 2005 it took in over 3 billion in revenue. If EA was so incompetent it would be out of buisness.
I have no idea what went on with UO, but here are some basic facts:
EA bought Origin in 1992 UO did not come out until 1997 UO hit 250,000 subscribers in 2003 UO has 130,000 subscibers in Jan. 2006
So, EA can run Origins fine for 11 years. Maybe they made mistakes, maybe not, yet I find it odd people are willing to not give EA any credit for the success and then blame them for UO problems. But lets think about UO2. It was cancelled shortly after AC2 came out. If you look at AC and AC2 numbers, it seems as though AC2 was in competition with AC. In the same way maybe UO2 would be in competition with UO.
Earth and Beyond was DOA. Whether that is EA or not, I cannot say. But it only sold 53,000 copies. E&B lasted 2 years. A good showing for such low numbers. If in 2 years you cannot grow your product, and it is underperforming, you cut your losses and move on. EVE online is about the only way to have slow long-term steady growth. EVE is an anomoly and not the standard to judge the success of games with.
The pros and cons of EA buying Mythic are the same thing - EA is a large company looking for quality games and profit. With EA's considerable wealth, Mythic will be in a good position financially to compete with SOE and WoW. The money EA can afford to spend to develop DAOC is consierable. Further, the more put into WAR will only add to the content and quality of WAR on release. EA money can be used to advertise both WAR and DAOC.
Mythic going it alone will have problem. Vivnendi owns Blizzard - one of the reasons why DAOC is not on sheleves. Viviendi is not going to pressure to get DAOC on the shelves when they barely make any money off of it. On the other hand WoW makes them millions every month. EA gives them shelf space. Without this, Mythic would stay a small company. If WAR did badly at first or something went even worse for DAOC, it could be a problem financially. Maybe not immediately, but in a few years.
On the hand hand with EA being involved, they want a return on their investment. I am sure they will be patient with Mythic for a few years, but if EA looks at things and see something is loosing money then it will be closed down. If EA looks at what is on Mythic's plate and thinks it is too much, then projects will get cancelled. Maybe for the "long term" health of Mythic as a creative force there are problems. But, until something starts showing a direct negative impact, for the moment I think EA buying Mythic is good for Mythic over the next 5 years. It is also good for WAR and perhaps DAOC.
As much as everyone is talking doom, there are ceratin things people need to remember. EA is a billion dollar company. In 2005 it took in over 3 billion in revenue. If EA was so incompetent it would be out of buisness.
I have no idea what went on with UO, but here are some basic facts:
EA bought Origin in 1992 UO did not come out until 1997 UO hit 250,000 subscribers in 2003 UO has 130,000 subscibers in Jan. 2006
So, EA can run Origins fine for 11 years. Maybe they made mistakes, maybe not, yet I find it odd people are willing to not give EA any credit for the success and then blame them for UO problems. But lets think about UO2. It was cancelled shortly after AC2 came out. If you look at AC and AC2 numbers, it seems as though AC2 was in competition with AC. In the same way maybe UO2 would be in competition with UO.
Minor correction: From 1997 to 2000 UO was run by the original Origin Dev team. In 2000 Origin was disbanded. In 2000 Lord British left to found his own company due to disputes over EA Management of the game. In 2001 much of the rest of the staff left and/or was fired or moved to other projects within EA as they put a new dev team in place, one that would implement their new 'direction' for the game better.
For a while that worked but once Trammel was released it only took about 6 months for it to become apparent to the players that the playerbase was rapidly dwindling because of Trammel. UO, up till then, had been the one truely sandbox world... still was more of a sandbox than anything else... but in 2003 two things happened: 1) Trammel had occurred in 2002, alienating a large portion of the PVP community. 2) Raph Koster and crew (much of the original UO Dev team) released SWG with SOE... A LOT of SOE's initial player base were UO refugees. One could make the arguement that had SOE released a more stable and completed game when they released SWG they may very well have killed UO altogether. Instead they just gave it a slowly festering wound that hurt it badly but didn't kill it.
UO never recovered and has been steadily declining since.
However, we agree... in the SHORT term this could very well be a good thing. But long term? I'm not so sure. I hope so... but history has proven otherwise with EA.
On the flip side I heard a rumor that EA is looking at CCP as well.....
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by JulianDracos As much as everyone is talking doom, there are ceratin things people need to remember. EA is a billion dollar company. In 2005 it took in over 3 billion in revenue. If EA was so incompetent it would be out of buisness.
They are competent at one thing, buying many popular licenses, putting many boxed games on the shelves and as a result producing some of the top selling boxed games each year.
$3 billion in revenue from pumping out 30 top-selling games hardly compares to $1 billion in revenue from a single MMOG.
MMOGs are an entirely different matter. MMOGs require quality gameplay that is sustainable, as players spend much more time on them. Not only has EA had poor success with their ideas for 'mainstream' MMOs, but the one single MMO that was a success, Ultima Online, they completely destroyed with drastic changes, non-existant or poor technology updates, no advertising and forced boxed expansions.
Players in their own UO community were warning of these changes, even back in 1999, but were ignored.
this will either drastically IMPROVE warhammer since they have more money to do things now, or it will kill the game...byt they will still make some money because people will try it out...personally i dont care to much if they kill warhammer, DAOC is another story......
Comments
FISCAL 2007. You sure about that year away thing?
________________________________________________________________________________________
Let's see. End of SECOND QUARTER OF FISCAL 2007. Let's get a check on that. Yeah I'm sure. Economics rule. And before you try another repost, I did not say EXACTLY a year or IN JUNE, I said ABOUT a year meaning close to, near, in the proximity. In any case it's still pass the beta release.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by JulianDracos
As for WAR, I would not worry. WAR will mostly if not completly be done prior to the accusition. Further, WAR is a licensed product. They must work with GW to ensure that GW is happy. So, if EA tries to take the game in a wrong direction, they can say that EA Mythic is in violation of the terms of the contract and pull the license.
Yup, they pull the license. Then what? Oh, they pulled the license that means we won't be able to play WAR.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
You're right, GW would pull the license. Then sell it to another MMO company which would set back our play date, EA and mythic would lose profit, and GW would conitnue with it's plans. But this is a HUGE what if. Personally I still think the initial shock is overplayed and people naturally are taking it to extremes. We all keep tearing out little sections of articles and trying to decipher them like a davinci code and the 2 companies have barely shaken hands (yes I know this started in february). The talks haven't even started yet, they'll last for months due to legal processes, then we'll see the finished product. People can decide then. What ever happened to the old days when you jumped ship AFTER the iceberg struck
==========================
Granted its a doomsday prophacy but if satan said he reformed and learned his lessons and made a church youd still say its a church of satan.
Ill wait and see but im in shock and have deep reservations.
Orky Name Generator, only at www.bigchoppaz.com
Like with SWG?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Like with SWG?
I learned my lesson with $OE. Will EA be any different? I have my doubts. The future of WH is in jeopardy!
EA has already proven to be worse. They have cancelled 3 mmo projects I beleive now and re-released UO with a spoonful of new content about 5 times. And we all know how well TSO is doing.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
What a bunch of lousy Sell-Outs and Liers. After months upon months of maintaining that Mythic would remain independent, they do this!
What good can come of it for DAoC and the upcomming Warhammer?
Time to change my Warhammer Hype to 1.0. No way am I going to plunk down cash for any MMORPG associated with EA. They have absolutely not a CLUE as to how to run one.
R.I.P DAoC
Where in the article did they mention the sky was falling?
OMG people.. chill out! Mythic has long been regarded as one of the greatest MMORPG companies around. Give them some slack... I'm sure the decision wasn't made lightly.
With my respect for Mythic, I will defintely wait and see how things pan out before deciding if it was a good move or not... and I'm certainly not pressing the /cancel button on a company and it's game based on what I or others *think* might happen!
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Hmm lets compare:
EA: 6 MMO's in their history. 3 collapsed, 2 on life support 1, the all time greatest MMO ever, is slowly dying because of the changes they've made to it.
SOE: 4 MMO's in their history. 3 of which were in the top 8 subscriber wise, 2 still are. One was the de-facto industry leader for 7 years.... 4th is the #1 MMOFPS on the market.
Much as I don't like the way SOE handles most of it's titles I have to say that they'd have been better than EA.
Also, if you honestly believe Mythic will still exist 5 years from now I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. Every company they bought out has been utterly destroyed within 2-5 years. Origin, Kesmai and others all gone now. Once trend-setters in the gaming industry.
EA is the kiss of death. I won't touch 'em with a 10 foot pole. Ask some E&B players... or MPBT players how well EA handles MMO projects.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Guess who bought them out.: EA
Do they still exist?: NO
Sorry... EA's track record is a flawless, impeccable, history of utterly destroying every company they buy out and devastating every MMO they touch. They don't have a SINGLE successful MMO title (and they've had 6, MORE than SOE has put out). They're the kiss of death in this industry.
Will history repeat itself with Mythic? I honestly don't know.... but given the track record involved here? I would be VERY surprised if Mythic survives past 3 years as a subsidiary of EA.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
1) There is nobody who is posting here who knows all the facts regarding the closing of EA studios. Unless you are Richard or Robert Garriot, Louis Castle, Brent Sperry or my good friends John Taylor and Kelton Flinn (from Kesmai), you cannot say why those studios were closed. Thus, either defending the studios or attacking them or defending EA or attacking it is pointless.
2) EA has never closed down an online game that was highly profitable at the time it was shutdown. EA has kept UO running for almost 9 years. I think it is safe to say that most of the games that were shut down were not financial successes for the studios/EA.
3) EA is a business, Mythic is a business and GW is a business. Speaking for Mythic and GW, I can say that we are both driven to make great products everytime we create something. I believe that EA feels the same way but since I am new here (I'm writing this from BC), I can't say that they always wanted to make great games simply because I wasn't part of EA until now. Judging by what I saw today, I think they are absolutely driven to make great games. However, we are also all businesses and need to make profits and survive. EA and GW are publicly traded comapnies and thus have a duty to their shareholders to be profitable.
4) The risks to Mythic and WAR are less today because of the EA deal than they were two days ago. If Mythic had screwed up with WAR's development and we were very late in delivering it, there was nobody who could bail us out. Making anything of the scale of WAR is hard and I would be guilty of hubris if I said that there was no chance Mythic would screw up. No company nor any individual gos through life without making mistakes. In the case of WAR, if we made a mistake and we were independent, bad things would happen, that is a simple fact of life.
5) The MMO market is getting more competitive every year and while I thought we would be just fine, if I was wrong, 170+ people would have lost their jobs.
6) EA is more than just interested in WAR, they have become true believers in the game. It took many months, lots of conversations and demos and finally E3 for them to share our faith. It was that faith that led to the deal. If they didn't share that faith we wouldn't have done the deal, period. All the guys who will be involved going forward with Mythic (marketing, etc.) are not only DAoC players but WoW players as well. These guys know and love the genre. Mythic is not dealing with some guys who said "Gee, we know this MMO thing is hot so we want in" (as some companies who talked to Mythic said) but rather, a bunch of hardcore gamers who know and love these types of games.
7) As I've said before, nobody from Mythic is going anywhere from EA's perspective (meaning no layoffs, riffs, etc.) and I'm not going anywhere either. I made a promise to GW that we were going to bust a gut in order to make a great Warhammer MMO. I make very few promises and I do not break my promises, ever. I love the guys at GW (but not in a LoTR hobbits jumping up on the bed way, thank you very much) and I'm not going to let anything bad happen to their beloved IP.
I know that no matter what I say, there will be people saying the exact opposite. I will remind people (especially the new folks here) that many months ago when I first started posting here many people were skeptical and some were downright hostile. I said that I could accept that but I asked for people to judge our results for themselves. Since then Mythic has done what no other maker of a large-scale MMO has ever done before, go to E3 with only 9 months into development and create a kick-Royal Hiny game that won a lot of awards and got lots of people (fans of WH and non-fans) talking about the game and not talking about hype, demos, renders, etc. but talking about the playable game that they saw working. I will say the same thing to you now, watch what we do and decide for yourselves whether I am telling you the truth or not. And if I'm wrong, I'll be the first one here to say so and the blame will fall squarely on my shoulders.
I am truly sorry that the EA deal has caused so much concern and upset in the community. I hope to make it up to you by releasing a game that will stand as the finest game Mythic has ever done and something that EA, Mythic and GW can be proud of now and in the future.
Mark>>>>
It reminds me too much of other corporate things. Big corporations buying little corporations and then imposing their business model on them. And then eventually all of them merge into one. And then squashing us with no remorse.
I liked Mythic. I always had this feeling that they were the rebel company. The one that was bucking the trend and actually listening to us. Now, I'm afraid they're going to go the way of all the other mergers.
I hate the corporate world. I understand it's a necessity, but I still hate it never the less.
Considering EA history of canning 5 or 6 mmorpg how can it compare to SoE or any other company.Yes your precious SWG has been changed but it exists.Wish the E&B fans could say the same for their game!
Thank you very much. It's posts like these that keep me going when the weight of negative posts start to come crashing on my head.
Take over Everything
Here's to hoping the best of luck to DAoC, and hoping that EA doesn't screw up Warhammer.
Looking for something new.
Well, you made your bed (with EA in it) now you get to sleep in it. Seriously, it's your guys company so you can do what ever you want with it. If this turns out to be a bad move on your part, then being under EA's leash will be punishment enough. Good luck, I REALLY hope you know what your doing.
DON'T LEAVE EA AND WARHAMMER IN THE SAME ROOM TOGETHER ALONE!
.....................................
...but time flows like a river...
...and history repeats...
-Leader of "The Fighting Irish" in DAoC on Hib/Kay-
I know why Origin was destroyed by EA because the former CEO of Origin gave a very detailed account of what happened to the company. Bottom line: EA killed the company. In 1992 when they bought Origin it was largely unchanged, much like the Mythic Deal actually. Origin was allowed to 'do their own thing'. Then in 1997 after UO was released EA decided to make Origin's focus "online only" once they released Ultima IX. However in 1999 they completely subsumed the company. Partially due to project delays and process failures on Origin's part (their own fault, I know) revolving around Ultima Online 2 and UO IX. Privateer Online (which was in early concept development at the time) was cancelled as well.
If you wikipedia the company you'll find a lot of this detail but it does look like someone added "Harry Potter Online" to the list of titles they were working on, which I believe is incorrect.
After Origin's projects were cancelled they were reduced to a 'project team' within EA that was soley focussed on supporting and maintaining UO. They were later tasked with developing Ultima X: Odyssey, but that one got cancelled too.
As for Kesmai, I don't know a great deal about what went on there. However I do know that even the developers on MBPT:3025 didn't know why EA was cancelling the game. All their projected numbers showed them that the game should have been a huge hit. From one of the largest open betas ever (remember this was before DAOC released even) with thousands upon thousands of players to the fact that the BattleTech name was HUGE in PC gaming at the time. Theories abound but, as Mark said, nobody but EA knows the real reason the project was canned. And I suspect even John and Kelton don't really know why EA decided to subsume/destroy Kesmai. Though I'm sure they have a better clue than I.
But the fact remains:
Under EA's Management the following MMORPG's have failed:
- Privateer: Online - Cancelled during early development (note this was based on probably the single most popular Sci-Fi game ever. EVE probably would never have seen the light of day if this had been released properly)
- Ultima Online 2 - Cancelled despite MASSIVE interest in the entire MMO community.
- Ultima X: Odyssey - Cancelled despite MASSIVE interest in the Ultima community, and the RPG community in general.
- Earth & Beyond - Cancelled at 37k subs (and it was growing)
- Motor City Online - This one was a flop from day 1
- The Sims (The Sims 2 isn't exactly doing well either)
- MPBT 3025 (Cancelled literally, weeks, prior to release despite massive interest from the BattleTech community from all angles: Microsoft games players (mechwarrior), Tabletop players, and long time followers of Kesmai through all the previous iterations of Battletech Online.)
There's another but I can't remember it at the moment.The only MMORPG under their management that's remotely profitable is UO and ever since they canned almost everyone at Origin it's been going steadily downhill (2000).
So while I appreciate that Mark is trying to allay everyone's fears I have to call "BS" on his statements. While I agree that EA and Mythic are businesses and that EA does give Mythic a much needed 'safety net'. I am very concerned that Mythic is in very dangerous waters with a very nasty shark that WILL pounce at the first sign of blood in the water.
The track record is there. Hell we've ALREADY been lied to. Need we quote Mark's letter to the community not more than 3 months ago that specifically stated that Mythic would NOT be selling to EA (or any other company).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
As much as everyone is talking doom, there are ceratin things people need to remember. EA is a billion dollar company. In 2005 it took in over 3 billion in revenue. If EA was so incompetent it would be out of buisness.
I have no idea what went on with UO, but here are some basic facts:
EA bought Origin in 1992
UO did not come out until 1997
UO hit 250,000 subscribers in 2003
UO has 130,000 subscibers in Jan. 2006
So, EA can run Origins fine for 11 years. Maybe they made mistakes, maybe not, yet I find it odd people are willing to not give EA any credit for the success and then blame them for UO problems. But lets think about UO2. It was cancelled shortly after AC2 came out. If you look at AC and AC2 numbers, it seems as though AC2 was in competition with AC. In the same way maybe UO2 would be in competition with UO.
Earth and Beyond was DOA. Whether that is EA or not, I cannot say. But it only sold 53,000 copies.
E&B lasted 2 years. A good showing for such low numbers. If in 2 years you cannot grow your product, and it is underperforming, you cut your losses and move on. EVE online is about the only way to have slow long-term steady growth. EVE is an anomoly and not the standard to judge the success of games with.
The pros and cons of EA buying Mythic are the same thing - EA is a large company looking for quality games and profit. With EA's considerable wealth, Mythic will be in a good position financially to compete with SOE and WoW. The money EA can afford to spend to develop DAOC is consierable. Further, the more put into WAR will only add to the content and quality of WAR on release. EA money can be used to advertise both WAR and DAOC.
Mythic going it alone will have problem. Vivnendi owns Blizzard - one of the reasons why DAOC is not on sheleves. Viviendi is not going to pressure to get DAOC on the shelves when they barely make any money off of it. On the other hand WoW makes them millions every month. EA gives them shelf space. Without this, Mythic would stay a small company. If WAR did badly at first or something went even worse for DAOC, it could be a problem financially. Maybe not immediately, but in a few years.
On the hand hand with EA being involved, they want a return on their investment. I am sure they will be patient with Mythic for a few years, but if EA looks at things and see something is loosing money then it will be closed down. If EA looks at what is on Mythic's plate and thinks it is too much, then projects will get cancelled.
Maybe for the "long term" health of Mythic as a creative force there are problems. But, until something starts showing a direct negative impact, for the moment I think EA buying Mythic is good for Mythic over the next 5 years. It is also good for WAR and perhaps DAOC.
For a while that worked but once Trammel was released it only took about 6 months for it to become apparent to the players that the playerbase was rapidly dwindling because of Trammel. UO, up till then, had been the one truely sandbox world... still was more of a sandbox than anything else... but in 2003 two things happened:
1) Trammel had occurred in 2002, alienating a large portion of the PVP community.
2) Raph Koster and crew (much of the original UO Dev team) released SWG with SOE... A LOT of SOE's initial player base were UO refugees. One could make the arguement that had SOE released a more stable and completed game when they released SWG they may very well have killed UO altogether. Instead they just gave it a slowly festering wound that hurt it badly but didn't kill it.
UO never recovered and has been steadily declining since.
However, we agree... in the SHORT term this could very well be a good thing.
But long term? I'm not so sure. I hope so... but history has proven otherwise with EA.
On the flip side I heard a rumor that EA is looking at CCP as well.....
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas