Originally posted by JediGeek OK Hercules, STFU. Seriously. You have your little opinion and you've been attacking anyone that gives examples to dispute it.
You want to see links? Go find them. You've been given plenty of information to find them yourself.
In the future, try checking your facts before making your generalizations and attacking anyone that disagrees with you.
This is why ive not posted in this thread, its a one way street. All this crap has been ran over a hundred times forward and backward, scraped up, rehashed, and ran over again another hundred times. All the information you will ever need hercules is on this site, the regular posters up here such as MX, Xcathdra, Admarak, Rekrul, Shayde and Obraik to name some, have posted and quoted plenty of information via links and copy/paste, which show both sides of the argument. Just read the forums and learn, no need to start a thread on stuff you should already know according to the way and things youve posted in this thread, not to mention have been debated to death.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by JediGeek OK Hercules, STFU. Seriously. You have your little opinion and you've been attacking anyone that gives examples to dispute it.
You want to see links? Go find them. You've been given plenty of information to find them yourself.
In the future, try checking your facts before making your generalizations and attacking anyone that disagrees with you.
This is why ive not posted in this thread, its a one way street. All this crap has been ran over a hundred times forward and backward, scraped up, rehashed, and ran over again another hundred times. All the information you will ever need hercules is on this site, the regular posters up here such as MX, Xcathdra, Admarak, Rekrul, Shayde and Obraik to name some, have posted and quoted plenty of information via links and copy/paste, which show both sides of the argument. Just read the forums and learn, no need to start a thread on stuff you should already know according to the way and things youve posted in this thread, not to mention have been debated to death.
Tsk Tsk... Thats 3 demerits for being Logcal and Msart at the same time Spathotan... But I agree... The links I provided can be taken however you want to take em Hercules... Im not here to argue this to death.. Just saying what Ive seen...
Do I dislike both compaines... Yes... Is LA to blame jsut as much as SOE... It could be argued that way sure... The thing to keep in mind is SOE is the one that has its Devs working on the game, not LA. All LA has are some executive producers who approve or disapprove additions or changes. A couple items have gone all the way up to george Lucas, like the addition of Naboo and Wookie world since both were in Episode 3, Revenge of the Sith.
What it boils down to, and this IMHO only, that the reason all the hate flows towards SOE is becuase of the 2 compaines, SOE is always at the forefront since they are the ones devloping and running the day to day operations fo the game. LA forums have stated they have nothing to do with the gae in terms of changing stuff and to take the conversations / complaints back to the SOE SWG forums..
Not sure what else I can place in here to amke the argument so I will let it go for now...
Peace
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Out of curisosity what is your deal with LA anyways?
Good link .
It might be better for SOE as a company to sit back and let you all think that LucasArts forced this stuff on us. Guess what, they didn't. We all sat around a table and read the same data.
Smed
Other link is meaniless as it had no offical bearing.But i like this one as its from smed .
Can insult all you want means nothing from ppl who spent months crying over a game .
Originally posted by JediGeek OK Hercules, STFU. Seriously. You have your little opinion and you've been attacking anyone that gives examples to dispute it. Nancy MacIntyre is the one who said they wanted to, "Kill, loot treasure, repeat." She was a PR person at LA, she recently got promoted to VP. She also said there was, "too much reading" in the old system. Jeff Freeman, who is a developer for SOE, stated in his blog that he was the brainchild of the NGE. People have been giving plenty of examples of why SOE gets a lot of the blame. They asked for it. You want to see links? Go find them. You've been given plenty of information to find them yourself.
FYI, I don't hold LA blameless for this mess. I haven't bought an LA game since NGE went live and I won't as long as NGE is the version of SWG available for PC. For a Star Wars fan that sucks, but I'm not going to support LA while they allow this to continue. In the future, try checking your facts before making your generalizations and attacking anyone that disagrees with you.
Yawn .I suppose she told you this and in your little town your courts base their decision on what nancy's mum heard in the beauty palour.
Out of curisosity what is your deal with LA anyways?
Good link .
It might be better for SOE as a company to sit back and let you all think that LucasArts forced this stuff on us. Guess what, they didn't. We all sat around a table and read the same data.
Smed
Other link is meaniless as it had no offical bearing.But i like this one as its from smed .
Can insult all you want means nothing from ppl who spent months crying over a game .
The other link did have bearing as it stated how the concept of the NGE came about, and which company was behind it (SOE), not to mention Jeff Freeman was one of the Directors of SWG. Not sure how more official you want to get with that one.
As for your comment in the above post it was Nancy McCyntire and you can find it here:
"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."
She was the Senior Director for SWG, Promoted to Vice President of Global Marketing and Sales. Can be found here:
And last but not least I was not insulting you.. I was asking what your beef is with LA.
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Maybe because LA did none of the actual coding of the game, nor did they set the creative direction, customer service, bug fixes, content neglection, nor did they create not one but two shytty combat upgrades.
Yes, they allowed it to happen, but there's conflicting reports on actually how much veto power LA actually had.
They didn't code line one. They didn't create the CU or the nge.
$OE id the drunken angry abusive father that beat us. LA is the mom who allowed it.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by cooldevo Originally posted by wolfmann Oh we hate LEC equally. Not only did they wreck SWG, but also KOTOR 2.
I think part of this problem was they changed companies between the 1st and 2nd game. They went from a big name company they couldn't make unreasonable demands on (such as shortenting release time) because they would have said "no, if you don't like it leave" because of the world-renowned reputation they have. In the 2nd one they picked a much smaller less well-known company, and then shortened the timeframe on the game's release.
If you play it you can tell this. As you get close to the end of the game the content gets thinner, and the storyline gets that much weaker and flimsier. I saved just before the end and played through several of the endings and was left saying "What? How did that happen? That makes no sense in context of the game."
LA is often very demanding on their products, and they will often shorten times, or not allow for push-backs to ensure the game is better. This was very evident in KOTOR2. I will admit I did like the first 1/2 to 3/4 of KOTOR2, but after that it just started going downhill.
I also liked the Beginning of KOTOR 2, I played the worlds in this order: Nar Shadda(Sp), 1st part of Onderon, Dant, 2nd of Onderon, and then Korriban. And you're absolutely right.
Nar Shadda (Sp Again) By far had the most content, the first part of onderon was pretty sparse, Dant also was Sparse, but the 2nd onderon had almost as much content as Nar Shadda, but then Korriban left me EXTREMELY disappointed, taking about 20 minutes, the cave adding maybe 10 minutes to that. Pretty pathetic.
And then the endings made little sense. Kreia was just randomly crytic and made no sense for the whole rest of the game after the enclave. If they had created lots more content like the beginning of the game at the end, it would have surpassed the first one, but instead it just left me unsatisfied.
Sorry for jacking the thread, you can have it back now.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment; We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Originally posted by JediGeek OK Hercules, STFU. Seriously. You have your little opinion and you've been attacking anyone that gives examples to dispute it. Nancy MacIntyre is the one who said they wanted to, "Kill, loot treasure, repeat." She was a PR person at LA, she recently got promoted to VP. She also said there was, "too much reading" in the old system. Jeff Freeman, who is a developer for SOE, stated in his blog that he was the brainchild of the NGE. People have been giving plenty of examples of why SOE gets a lot of the blame. They asked for it. You want to see links? Go find them. You've been given plenty of information to find them yourself.
FYI, I don't hold LA blameless for this mess. I haven't bought an LA game since NGE went live and I won't as long as NGE is the version of SWG available for PC. For a Star Wars fan that sucks, but I'm not going to support LA while they allow this to continue. In the future, try checking your facts before making your generalizations and attacking anyone that disagrees with you.
Yawn .I suppose she told you this and in your little town your courts base their decision on what nancy's mum heard in the beauty palour. Unimpressed sorry.
If you'd get off your lazy ass and search this, or other forums.. and all the other websites who have extensively covered the tragic unfolding of the nge, you would fins ALL these quotes you dispute.
We're not going to spoon feed you what has now become COMMON KNOWLEDGE.
Maybe you can loot yourself a clue.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I for one have never been shy about voicing my hate LA, although you are right that many on here seem to excluce them from the blame for SWG. Surely there is enough hate to go around, as LA is equally to blame for what happened. I boycott both, equally and completely.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Originally posted by chlaos I for one have never been shy about voicing my hate LA, although you are right that many on here seem to excluce them from the blame for SWG. Surely there is enough hate to go around, as LA is equally to blame for what happened. I boycott both, equally and completely.
There are many sides of this argument to take . La is responisble for allowing the continuity of the story to be trampled on . They also took SOE's side over the NGE fiasco . But none of us know what happens behind closed doors . I find it hard to believe at present LA's communication with SOE is as sugar-coated as they show publicly . The game is still hurting , There is no question about that . LA has no hand in development , Therefor I can't find them at fault over gameplay problems .
If anything I would think LA is internally talking about this mess .Star wars is their Nest egg , Allowing its name to carry on under heavy scrutiny , is not something I see them doing for a long time .
It is no secret most found the star wars aspect of pre-cu to be severly lacking . That is what LA probably wanted fixed , Allowing a rewrite of the original game , Or even demanding one . That Job would fall in the hands of SOE , Therfor any failure would be their responsiblity .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by hercules You see people spam i never buy a SoE game again because they ruined 3 years of work . Well hello there its SoE/LA. The reason you see the SoE trolls not touch LA is because they are hippocrites plain and simple. To say i bycott LA products simply means no more future star wars game for them as LA owns the rights to star wars.. So ofc they sit around thinking hey there will be a KOTOR or SWG2 mmorpg so i will eventually have to deal with LA once again and its pointless bashing them. this famous quote is from a LA producer meaning they were quite aware of any chances going on and think no one here can deny LA knows every change happening in SWG ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Senior Game Designer at LucasArts is quoted in the New York Times in an article on their dumbing down of Star Wars Galaxies. In order to appeal to a broader player base, LucasArts believes that:
"We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes i am sure we will have answers like i had bad experience with SoE before.Well considering SoE has 3 or so other mmorpg under its belt and has never made a major revamp in this games.It had nerfs and boost but never anything that affects general gameplay at this scale and imho not even close to the archer nerfs of DAoC. So if in 7 years SoE never made an overhaul of their other games maybe its worth considering that LA brought up the idea in the first place. Since LA leaves the CSR to SoE it would fall on SoE to answer any question on the changes and put them in the frontline but LA is well behind the changes .
So if you really feel SWG changes robbed you of your time and effort time to start saying you bycott SoE and LA.But then again that would be too much for jedi wannabies i am sure.
Got to agree not really SOE's fault with whats gone down with SWG its in the hands of LA..
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by chlaos I for one have never been shy about voicing my hate LA, although you are right that many on here seem to excluce them from the blame for SWG. Surely there is enough hate to go around, as LA is equally to blame for what happened. I boycott both, equally and completely.
There are many sides of this argument to take . La is responisble for allowing the continuity of the story to be trampled on . They also took SOE's side over the NGE fiasco . But none of us know what happens behind closed doors .
This is why, just to be safe, I make sure to hate both. LOL. No seriously, I know SOE is at fault for the sorry implementation of things. But Nancy and Julio's comments since the nge have earned them my eternal scorn, not to mention that little jimmy ward should not be allowed withing a square mile of a mmo.
Its always seemed strange to me that people discuss so much who is at most fault, when like you said we can never know for sure. There is plenty of fault and hate to go around, in my own humble opinion. /cheers
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
LEC deserves its share of the blame for the current fiasco, BUT it was $OE that really screwed all this up. All in search of the mighty dollar. It was $OE that started the lies. It was $OE that continues those lies even now. It is $OE that still has real project management issue.
For what it's worth, I don't see me buying anything from any Lucas Arts franchise. Not after the way they and $OE were so willing to screw their current customers.
Actually for those of you that don't realize it, LucasArts is in charge of Marketing for SWG, so any 'lies" you heard, came from them first. Not to mention any time ANYONE says anything it get attributed to SOE. George Lucas himself could release a statment saying "the NGE is FUN" and the very first post would quote that and the poster would say: "Look SOE is lying again!". Don't believe me? Go back about 10 pages and you'll see the posts where I point this out.
Something else a lot of you are missing is that LucasArts is the LEAD Quality Assurance. Every bug in the game since release LucasArts has known about and signed off on (or should have if they were doing their job).
Third point: If I hire someone to kill my wife. He comes up with a plan, and I say 'yeah that's a good plan do that', and the person I hire does exactly what I said he could or should, according to most of you people, I'm totally innocent of any wrong doing. In the eyes of the law, I'm MORE guilty than the person that actually pulled the trigger. LucasArts is in charge they say what is or isn't going in the game. SOE comes up with the ideas, LucasArts says if they will use those ideas or not.
Finally, Herc a bit of advice coming from someone who, correct me if I'm wrong, convinced you that LucasArts was just as at fault, give it up man. No one is going to see what they don't want to see. SOE is evil, doesn't matter if they do the exact same thing as another company, when the other company does it, it's good, when SOE does it it's evil. A fine example of this: The Station Exchange for EQ2. When that came out everyone said how evil SOE was for promoting ingame selling, they're just trying to make a buck etc etc. And yet those very same people voted EvE developers the BEST in the business, even though the same thing has been going on there for much much longer.
The hyprocracy is there, but no one wants to see that they're are hypocrit.
I have said previously that I will no longer purchase SOE nor LA based products. When Indiana Jones comes out, I certainly won't be spending any money on it.
Comments
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Tsk Tsk... Thats 3 demerits for being Logcal and Msart at the same time Spathotan... But I agree... The links I provided can be taken however you want to take em Hercules... Im not here to argue this to death.. Just saying what Ive seen...
Do I dislike both compaines... Yes... Is LA to blame jsut as much as SOE... It could be argued that way sure... The thing to keep in mind is SOE is the one that has its Devs working on the game, not LA. All LA has are some executive producers who approve or disapprove additions or changes. A couple items have gone all the way up to george Lucas, like the addition of Naboo and Wookie world since both were in Episode 3, Revenge of the Sith.
What it boils down to, and this IMHO only, that the reason all the hate flows towards SOE is becuase of the 2 compaines, SOE is always at the forefront since they are the ones devloping and running the day to day operations fo the game. LA forums have stated they have nothing to do with the gae in terms of changing stuff and to take the conversations / complaints back to the SOE SWG forums..
Not sure what else I can place in here to amke the argument so I will let it go for now...
Peace
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=874858#M874858
Out of curisosity what is your deal with LA anyways?
Good link .
It might be better for SOE as a company to sit back and let you all think that LucasArts forced this stuff on us. Guess what, they didn't. We all sat around a table and read the same data.
Smed
Other link is meaniless as it had no offical bearing.But i like this one as its from smed .
Can insult all you want means nothing from ppl who spent months crying over a game .
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=874858#M874858
Out of curisosity what is your deal with LA anyways?
Good link .
It might be better for SOE as a company to sit back and let you all think that LucasArts forced this stuff on us. Guess what, they didn't. We all sat around a table and read the same data.
Smed
Other link is meaniless as it had no offical bearing.But i like this one as its from smed .
Can insult all you want means nothing from ppl who spent months crying over a game .
The other link did have bearing as it stated how the concept of the NGE came about, and which company was behind it (SOE), not to mention Jeff Freeman was one of the Directors of SWG. Not sure how more official you want to get with that one.
As for your comment in the above post it was Nancy McCyntire and you can find it here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/arts/10star.html?ex=1291870800&en=1ee43597bdcca355&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
"We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base," said Nancy MacIntyre, the game's senior director at LucasArts. "There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."
She was the Senior Director for SWG, Promoted to Vice President of Global Marketing and Sales. Can be found here:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=8468
And last but not least I was not insulting you.. I was asking what your beef is with LA.
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Yes, they allowed it to happen, but there's conflicting reports on actually how much veto power LA actually had.
They didn't code line one. They didn't create the CU or the nge.
$OE id the drunken angry abusive father that beat us. LA is the mom who allowed it.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
For the Horde!
Entertainers can ID you into a Drunken angry abusive father ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you play it you can tell this. As you get close to the end of the game the content gets thinner, and the storyline gets that much weaker and flimsier. I saved just before the end and played through several of the endings and was left saying "What? How did that happen? That makes no sense in context of the game."
LA is often very demanding on their products, and they will often shorten times, or not allow for push-backs to ensure the game is better. This was very evident in KOTOR2. I will admit I did like the first 1/2 to 3/4 of KOTOR2, but after that it just started going downhill.
I also liked the Beginning of KOTOR 2, I played the worlds in this order: Nar Shadda(Sp), 1st part of Onderon, Dant, 2nd of Onderon, and then Korriban. And you're absolutely right.
Nar Shadda (Sp Again) By far had the most content, the first part of onderon was pretty sparse, Dant also was Sparse, but the 2nd onderon had almost as much content as Nar Shadda, but then Korriban left me EXTREMELY disappointed, taking about 20 minutes, the cave adding maybe 10 minutes to that. Pretty pathetic.
And then the endings made little sense. Kreia was just randomly crytic and made no sense for the whole rest of the game after the enclave. If they had created lots more content like the beginning of the game at the end, it would have surpassed the first one, but instead it just left me unsatisfied.
Sorry for jacking the thread, you can have it back now.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
If you'd get off your lazy ass and search this, or other forums.. and all the other websites who have extensively covered the tragic unfolding of the nge, you would fins ALL these quotes you dispute.
We're not going to spoon feed you what has now become COMMON KNOWLEDGE.
Maybe you can loot yourself a clue.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
If anything I would think LA is internally talking about this mess .Star wars is their Nest egg , Allowing its name to carry on under heavy scrutiny , is not something I see them doing for a long time .
It is no secret most found the star wars aspect of pre-cu to be severly lacking . That is what LA probably wanted fixed , Allowing a rewrite of the original game , Or even demanding one . That Job would fall in the hands of SOE , Therfor any failure would be their responsiblity .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Got to agree not really SOE's fault with whats gone down with SWG its in the hands of LA..
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
This is why, just to be safe, I make sure to hate both. LOL. No seriously, I know SOE is at fault for the sorry implementation of things. But Nancy and Julio's comments since the nge have earned them my eternal scorn, not to mention that little jimmy ward should not be allowed withing a square mile of a mmo.
Its always seemed strange to me that people discuss so much who is at most fault, when like you said we can never know for sure. There is plenty of fault and hate to go around, in my own humble opinion. /cheers
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
LEC deserves its share of the blame for the current fiasco, BUT it was $OE that really screwed all this up. All in search of the mighty dollar. It was $OE that started the lies. It was $OE that continues those lies even now. It is $OE that still has real project management issue.
For what it's worth, I don't see me buying anything from any Lucas Arts franchise. Not after the way they and $OE were so willing to screw their current customers.
Actually for those of you that don't realize it, LucasArts is in charge of Marketing for SWG, so any 'lies" you heard, came from them first. Not to mention any time ANYONE says anything it get attributed to SOE. George Lucas himself could release a statment saying "the NGE is FUN" and the very first post would quote that and the poster would say: "Look SOE is lying again!". Don't believe me? Go back about 10 pages and you'll see the posts where I point this out.
Something else a lot of you are missing is that LucasArts is the LEAD Quality Assurance. Every bug in the game since release LucasArts has known about and signed off on (or should have if they were doing their job).
Third point: If I hire someone to kill my wife. He comes up with a plan, and I say 'yeah that's a good plan do that', and the person I hire does exactly what I said he could or should, according to most of you people, I'm totally innocent of any wrong doing. In the eyes of the law, I'm MORE guilty than the person that actually pulled the trigger. LucasArts is in charge they say what is or isn't going in the game. SOE comes up with the ideas, LucasArts says if they will use those ideas or not.
Finally, Herc a bit of advice coming from someone who, correct me if I'm wrong, convinced you that LucasArts was just as at fault, give it up man. No one is going to see what they don't want to see. SOE is evil, doesn't matter if they do the exact same thing as another company, when the other company does it, it's good, when SOE does it it's evil. A fine example of this: The Station Exchange for EQ2. When that came out everyone said how evil SOE was for promoting ingame selling, they're just trying to make a buck etc etc. And yet those very same people voted EvE developers the BEST in the business, even though the same thing has been going on there for much much longer.
The hyprocracy is there, but no one wants to see that they're are hypocrit.