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My problems and delights with Horizons

brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092

This gameworld is pretty devoid of players. Once outside the starting area, I have yet to run into someone. I'm actually ok with that. There are channels to ask questions and socialize. However, what makes no sense is the fact that later on in the game I am going to have to group to advance. Group with who? I already see the gripes in the forums about no one wanting to group up. I already know how hard it is to get people together, and that is coming from games like WoW, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, where there are thousands of players per server, instead of 100-300. I've also heard how the devs can't even get their ingame events set up correctly.

Crafting is a must. You don't like crafting? Then you will be walking around in horrible gear. At first I thought crafting wouldn't be tedious, but once past lvl 10 I noticed its a huge timesink. If they had one zone where people sold their goods, this would help out people who don't want to craft. Or somehow link the consignment merchants up. Instead there are consignment merchants in every single city that don't share their resources.

The thing I like is multiclassing. Pretty darn cool. The community is great, but I guess they'd have to be to put up with the crafting and adventuring. Combat isn't terrible. Customer service is wonderful.

It certainly has potential to be a great game. But I can't play a game that has forced grouping(at mid-to higher lvls), but no players to group with. That is my major gripe.

PS: The music is absolutely amazing.

Comments

  • ZarcharienZarcharien Member Posts: 36
    How did you come to the conclusion that you MUST group later to advance?

    I've played since release and have several chacacters of different classes and at a range of different lvls (1-100) and have never had to group to advance at all ... never. Actually, I like this game for the simple fact that I do not have to group to accomplish things or to advance.




  • KlausWKlausW Member Posts: 165

    Generally the consigners which will have starting equipment will be New Trismus and Kion. You can search all the consigners from the community website if you wish, or you can search in-game for a crafter who can make the gear you need. Perhaps you can work out a trade or exchange of services.

    It is possible to be a pretty much straight adventurer; I know several folks that play that way.

    Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos

  • OrlenaOrlena Member Posts: 22
    There are a number of ways to avoid crafting in Istaria if you choose not to.

    The first would be to join the marketplace channel and submit a request for someone to make what you require.  You can even use the Horizons Craft Calculator to figure out how you want your items teched.  There are almost always people around looking for work, or willing to craft with a bit of notice.

    In addition there are the forums that you can post what you require and someone can respond with a time to meet you in game to supply you with what you need.

    Should you wish to purchase a plot and build it up in some manner, you can design your plot and simply set the buildings to being able to be built by the public and set up payment, you don't even need to be there to make it happen. :)

    So it is highly possible to just adventure.  There are even special "adventuring only" quests which you can get from Town Marshalls which give you a coin reward bonus to help afford to hire someone.

    And there are new quests in Sslanis to give you extra experience as well to help you level.

    To be honest, I too don't understand why you feel you must group to advance in this game.  My personal experience is much like what those who have posted before me said.  I solo primarily out of choice.

    I have sometimes found new friends to group with using the "Player Search" command.  You can use this to look for others in your area, others in your level range, or crafters even.  It is quite the powerful tool. :)

    I hope that you start to make friends with people in game and find people willing to craft for you if you don't wish to yourself, and people to group with if that's your choice.  My own personal experience on the Chaos server says they are out there. :)


  • OpheleaOphelea Member Posts: 85
    Brostyr,

    Much of what you mention I'd attribute to gameplay style rather than the game.

    You can find people to group with - they're just not going to be localized in towns as the game doesn't require supplies well, of any kind so unless you're selling items there isn't a lot of reason to go to town.

    Crafting (unless you're a dragon trying to become an Adult) is optional. Adventurers hunt for the items necessary for crafters as well as coin.

    Consigners are not linked for two reasons. The first is that even if they were, they'll only load a set number of items starting with the consigner you're at. But, more importantly, the consigners are not linked so that you're using the one appropriate to your hunting area. There is an external source on the community site that updates every half hour if you're looking for something specific: http://community.istaria.com/consigners

    I'm glad you like the rest and I hope you stick around long enough to contribute to the areas you find lacking.

    I'm not sure why you feel or have heard that the designers don't arrange the events in a timely manner. Recently, 3 new designers started (and I mean in the last 3 weeks) so events were put on hold for a bit, but beyond that there's not been an issue I am aware of...however I'm open to listening.

    Continue to post questions. I'll check back.
  • ZarcharienZarcharien Member Posts: 36
    Upon first reading the post I thought the original poster felt that they MUST group in order to advance later for some reason, not that they wanted to group, hence my initial reply. Sorry if I misunderstood.


  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092
    Ok, firstly I have been playing MMOs long enough to listen to the gripes on forums. I find that I tend to agree with these types of people. So they are the ones I listen to. I've read that to find forms and techniques at higher lvls you must group. That getting people to group is a very difficult thing to do. I know this from experience from other games, as I've stated. The less people per server, and it only compounds the problem. Didn't the devs forget to put some master forms in the current event, so the players can't even progress?

    Here are is a quote:

    "I've spent a large amount of my time here (and I've been here over 2
    years now) working on my own. Some can be done, quite a bit can't. And
    I'm not talking bout the Uber Event Monsters. Those should need a
    group. But things like, for example, Slay 40 Winter Wolves. Now, when I
    did that quest, there was 1 place in the whole world to find them (not
    sure if that's changed) I could barely kill 1 at a time. (It was the
    last quest I had to do, so I wasn't just starting the quests). I spent
    a week trying to finish it, mostly cuz I could get bout 1 wolf by
    itself every half hour or so. I finally begged help, and 1 adult
    basically finished the last bout 3/4 of the quest in bout 15 mins. He
    was somewhere round twice my lvl.


    I know I'm rambling a bit, but there feels like a lot of "forced grouping" trying to go on,"

    Obviously, this is my major concern. I don't want to put time into a game that can't even support its own playstyle due to low population. I've played games where you spend 3 hours lfg, while diddling your thumbs in front of the computer. I'm over them.


    So far, I find this to be a very enjoyable game. The experience is way better than when I played some 1-2 years ago. In fact, I'm debating whether to leave EQ2, since I'm enjoying it so much. I just don't want the gameplay I enjoy to change once I get to mid-high level.
  • ZarcharienZarcharien Member Posts: 36
    Hmm .. in the qoute your refering to the poster is obviously a dragon trying to complete the Right of Passage, which I hear is a long, hard, but yet very fun dragon specific quest, for a dragon to become an adult. I believe in this case (the Right of Passage) grouping is essential at some points of it, although you may be able to solo it I guess if you was high enough level (?). I dunno for sure since I don't play a dragon; I'll let an expereinced dragon comment on that one. But, I will say for all I have seen, you should have no trouble at all finding people to help with this quest, if indeed you are a dragon trying to complete it, as most dragons, and others, are well aware how difficult this one can be and are more then willing to help others complete it.

    There is a few cases in the game such as some specific quests (like the Right of Passage) and some mob bosses that may require you to group, but I can assure  you other then  a few specific areas this game is not  based on "forced grouping", and is actually quite the opposite imo.

    Some mobs do travel in pairs, groups or packs (such as the wolves mentioned) and this can make hunting them solo a pain the the a**, but if you're willing to be patient and hunt these mobs intelligently and realize your limits, you shouldl have no problems isolating the single mobs around them and killing them by yourself , and even in some cases taking on multiple enemies of the same type and dispatching them successfully too. It can be difficult at times, but thats part of the fun imo.

    Anyways, welcome to Horizons, glad you are enjoying the game and hope you stick around for awhile.


  • OpheleaOphelea Member Posts: 85
    Zacharien is correct in that it is a dragon attempting to do the Adult Rite of Passage on his own. Something so grand as learning to fly - changing your entire avatar appearance, etc is SUPPOSED to be hard; it's supposed to be something that other dragons help you with. It's lore-based.

    I haven't the foggiest what the "missing master forms in the current event" comment is, truly.

    There IS a school - confectioner - think cook; it's been the bane of the game since the merging of the shards when expert forms were put in. Confectioner was a poorly thought out school when the game launched and not taken care of properly at merge. It is missing it's expert forms to this day. However, it's going through an incredible revamp that's taken a lot of time. A lot. It's going to affect the death penalty system so it's not being done lightly.

    Perhaps that is what you are confusing?

    But this game is specifically designed NOT to require grouping. It's specifically designed so that it can be played in 30 minute increments.

    Even the account/subscription management is designed in such a way to be able to add children to the system so to build a game that required that level of interaction would defeat the purpose.

    I do HOPE you give up EQ2 to stay. Our population will only grow if you do. But, I'm not going to encourage you to do so until you're ready.

    Spend time on the official forums as well as these. Get to know the full community.


  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092
    I'm sorry I must certainly did get confused.



    Working hard to finish the cenotaphs, just to realize that they, Um, forgot two of the master resources.





  • OpheleaOphelea Member Posts: 85


    Originally posted by brostyn
    I'm sorry I must certainly did get confused.



    Working hard to finish the cenotaphs, just to realize that they, Um, forgot two of the master resources.







    That's an OLD event.

    OLD

    And fixed LONG ago.



    I just realized, I'm arguing with you in this thread and that's just silly. The only way you're going to make a decision about this game is to play and interact with the community.

    You can pull anecdotal evidence, but without context (like the cenotaphs) it will be skewed at best, meaningless at worst. And that puts me on the defensive - a place I never want to be.

    Play the game! There are things about it you've said you like...enjoy those!

    Get involved in the community and ask them. Participate on the official boards, the in-game chat channels, etc.

    And ask questions. Questions you have based upon your experience, not that of others. Those I can help with.

    Now...go have some fun. In HZ, EQ2 or playing Frogger.

    But have fun!
  • SvayvtiSvayvti Member Posts: 160

    The in-game community was the selling point for me (not the forum community).

    People there are incredibly helpful and if you want some good opinions you should ask there. On the forums you don't even have to have an active account to post and you get some posts that are really out of context from the game itself.

  • vengeful85vengeful85 Member Posts: 65

      I really must agree with Ophelea on this,   you  have only produced  old quotes and based an opinion on those,  that is truely undeserved .  This is one of the best MMO's out there and has very few short comings that have not been adressed or have a fix in the works. Your first point about needing to craft to obtain any decent gear is totally incorrect i have NEVER made any armor or weapons for my toons (all has always been made by another player that i either found in the crafting channels or a friend.  You really should make an honest attempt to make  it to the mid levels before deciding whether or not this game  is for you or not, as all games you will try have a sharp learning curve. Once you learn how to actually play the game and find out where you can and cannot  hunt,  you will find that it is a well rounded and extremely fun game.   Your second gripe about the need to group is totally un warranted as well i managed to get my toon to 100 (the first time) with very little grouping (mostly for fun and friendship) so it is absolutley possible to play without grouping  and the fact that your dragon toon couldn't solo the mobs to complete the RoP quests only shows that you have begun trying to do so at far to low of lvl.  Secondly just because the quests are available at lvl 30  its recommended to get to lvl 40+ before making the quests your sole purpose for playing  (or get some friends, they are always a good thing in a MMO, after all why play in a virtual world where socializing and group play are available if ya dont want to make friends with other players) .  Give it an honest effort and ya will always be rewarded

  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092
    My intent certainly was not to start an argument with you or anyone. I apologize for making you feel like you were on the defensive. I really do enjoy the game.


  • KlausWKlausW Member Posts: 165


    Originally posted by Ophelea

    Originally posted by brostynI'm sorry I must certainly did get confused.
    Working hard to finish the cenotaphs, just to realize that they, Um, forgot two of the master resources.
    That's an OLD event.OLDAnd fixed LONG ago.

    OK, I need to throw out some corrections here.

    The Cenotaph/Outpost event was a while back, yes. The two master resources referenced in that quote were not forgotten. They were not included by design. The intention was - and is - to introduce them in later events. Now, in fact. The fifth master form, master cut gem, was introduced during the current event a few weeks ago. The master fabric spool form should (if I read today's patch notes correctly) be going in today.

    How do I know this for a fact?

    Because Amadan, the event designer, asked me to write the dialog for the cenotaph NPCs. I asked why he only needed four and he flat out told me the other two forms were going to be introduced in subsequent events.

    There is no forced grouping in Horizons, except in the case of a few specific quests (Rite of Passage, Ancient Rite of Passage, the current event quests) and the boss mobs. Everything else can be done solo if you are careful and skilled. The dragon that was quoted could have completed that task solo, had they stuck with it. I did it on my dragon solo, I KNOW it can be done.

    There are times when it is to your advantage to group, such as when two dragons have to do the same ability quest. By grouping, they can kill faster and more effectivly while both get credit for the same kill. However, they are not in any way required to do so.


    Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos

  • OpheleaOphelea Member Posts: 85


    Originally posted by brostyn
    My intent certainly was not to start an argument with you or anyone. I apologize for making you feel like you were on the defensive. I really do enjoy the game.




    Oh, don't apologize! I love a good argument! Debate is wonderful. Yes, I'm a little nuts.

    I just realized I was getting defensive and that's just silly. I'm not here to "convince" you to play. I don't want to convince anyone to play. I want them to play because they enjoy it - and you do, you've said as much.

    I just wanted to address those issues that I felt needed better clarification.

    So...what have you been doing that you enjoy? *waits expectantly*
  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092
    Well, I multiclassed as a Druid and cleric. I am finding the druid class to be very entertaining. He seems to be doing very well. I made some healing spells to sell on the consignment merchant. I've been enjoying the music, which I must say is unbelievable. It reminds me of my favorite anime Rurouni Kenshin, which also had some nice pieces in it.

    Waiting for the servers to come up, so I can check out Kion or Sslanis. Hopefully find some gear on the consignment merchants.
  • OpheleaOphelea Member Posts: 85
    I love Cleric but have never done Druid.

    It won't work now (because the shards are down for this huge patch!) but there is this to help you find items:

    http://community.istaria.com/consigners

    It updates every 30 minutes so it's best to check it at 10 after and 40 after.

    Also, if you can't find what you're looking for, try the marketplace channel.

    And yes, I'm not being biased because I work here. It IS incredible music.


  • dotcherdotcher Member Posts: 9
    Actually... the consigners listing on the web page should still work while the shards are down. It probably won't be updated, though (and there wouldn't be much point in doing so, what with the shards being down and all...)
  • mlambert890mlambert890 Member UncommonPosts: 136


    Originally posted by brostyn
    Ok, firstly I have been playing MMOs long enough to listen to the gripes on forums. I find that I tend to agree with these types of people. So they are the ones I listen to. I've read that to find forms and techniques at higher lvls you must group. That

    This isnt a Horizons specific comment, just some advice on this notion.  Personally, I think you've got to really take what you read on forums with a BIG grain of salt.  I've also been playing MMOs for a long while now (nearly 8 years), and I've found that the forum gripes are nearly always very exaggerated.  It's a simple rule of human nature that the most disgruntled, disatisfied and unhappy people yell the loudest.  I really feel that I've never had the level of emotional attachment and distress over any game that the typical forum ranter seems to have with ALL of them.

    There may be some grain of truth behind certain issues that get discussed, but when a group of chronically unhappy martyrs get together and work hard to make some small issue in a videogame the focal point of their disappointment with life in general, the conversation quickly becomes counter productive.

    What I've learned to do over the years is just totally ignore the forums and play the game.  These games all have a free trial.  I've had the most fun in two of the most reviled games there are: EQ1 and EQ2.  Personally, I think EQ2 is the best MMO currently out, yet it is bashed CONSTANTLY on forums.

    Just ignore that noise, play, and decide for yourself if you like the scenery ;-)  And yes, I played Horizons (back in beta), and while it wasnt for me, I thought it was a solid game and may check it out again.

  • Billius8Billius8 Member Posts: 574


    Originally posted by brostyn
    This gameworld is pretty devoid of players. Once outside the starting area, I have yet to run into someone. I'm actually ok with that. There are channels to ask questions and socialize. However, what makes no sense is the fact that later on in the game I am going to have to group to advance. Group with who? I already see the gripes in the forums about no one wanting to group up. I already know how hard it is to get people together, and that is coming from games like WoW, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, where there are thousands of players per server, instead of 100-300. I've also heard how the devs can't even get their ingame events set up correctly.

    Crafting is a must. You don't like crafting? Then you will be walking around in horrible gear. At first I thought crafting wouldn't be tedious, but once past lvl 10 I noticed its a huge timesink. If they had one zone where people sold their goods, this would help out people who don't want to craft. Or somehow link the consignment merchants up. Instead there are consignment merchants in every single city that don't share their resources.

    The thing I like is multiclassing. Pretty darn cool. The community is great, but I guess they'd have to be to put up with the crafting and adventuring. Combat isn't terrible. Customer service is wonderful.

    It certainly has potential to be a great game. But I can't play a game that has forced grouping(at mid-to higher lvls), but no players to group with. That is my major gripe.

    PS: The music is absolutely amazing.


    I tried this game when it first came out and I have to agree with you.  Population dropped off pretty fast, but this game got beat up way more than it deserved. 

    And yes, the music was truly amazing.  I might give this game another shot; try out the free trial or something.


  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341

    I've been back to this game a few times and... it always disappoints :(

    Great concept, great ideas, just not implemented so well.

    Can play dragons - way cool. Playing dragons... not so much.

    Hated that you had to download and install 3rd part mod software to have a chance of completing quests. "Go kill 10 skeletons"... um where are they? Does the quest giver tell you? Nope. Have to install a player-designed mod. Design problems like that are just shameful - and that was after having been reinvited back to try the game after they'd supposedly fixed a lot of things.

    Also, after this invitation, I'm trying a dragon (again). Ran into so many other problems and the response on chat was "oh yeah they've fixed everything, just not the dragon stuff". Well with a game that flogs being able to play dragons as a major drawcard, why not fix their stuff before throwing out a major reinvitation to former players?? Doesn't make sense.

    Lag wasn't as much of a problem as the first time I'd played, but was still there and they had noticably fixed other things.

    Player population is a mixed bag. Most players were incredibly nice. Like super nice. Like really really incredibly helpful. But there are also the bitter and twisted ones... the ones who "had it hard" back before the devs started fixing things and seem to resent how easy the new people have it (easily spotted when reading various forums). Like I listened to several of them do nothing but be genuinely and pointlessly mean to other players on general chat for two hours straight. It was incredible.

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