Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Devalon Originally posted by Gameloading Graphics have NOTHING to do with the lack of depth. anybody who thinks graphics is the cause of the lack of depth these days needs a checkup. its we, the gamers, that decided which kind of games we want. we picked everquest over old UO. We picked WoW over EVE. its us, the gamers that made the choice. its not because of the graphics, hell no. if that was true, then everybody would be playing EVE, Everquest 2 and Lineage 2 now. but instead, everybody is playing WoW in the west and Lineage 1 in asia.
You got to be kidding your saying EvE a better game to sign up to?? There more content in WoW just in the patch every month then EvE could dream of. WoW is a good example on ok graphics and gameply... It not about how much polygons you have but how the art drawn togethor. like, Does it make you feel like your in another world/time. Maybe that why people said the gameplay good but the graphics sucks. The graphics just need to make you believe you are in another world. Also, I played Darwinia. I didn't like the type of game but it ok.
I'm sorry, I can't remember I said EVE was a better game?
wow, this is something to remember. someone is accusing Gameloading of saying that EVE is better than WoW. Now i have seen everything
so, Gameloading, how does it feel to be an EVE fanboy for some seconds?
Feels good, I just noticed the light lately when I played the 14 day trial
(www.eve-online.com for the 14-day free trial, you should really check it out right now!)
I never liked EVE untill recently. I geuss I just wasn't mature and inteligent enough to play EVE before, But I am proud to say that I have finally caught up to the maturity and inteligence of my fellow EVE players. I still realise there are many people who don't like EVE, but hey, we can't all be as mature and smart as me and the other EVE players, right? I mean, they can just go back to WoW and have fun there, along with the other 6 million kids. its not that WoW is better then EVE, its just that so many people don't have the IQ that is required to play EVE. besides, most of them are carebear. they can't play real games, like EVE. they are sucky gamers, those carebears. they don't have the inteligence and guts required to be a real pvp pro, like an EVE players. they should stick with their carebear Wow.
anyway, I have to stop typing now. my friend is here, he bought the Star Trek Collecters edition. it has those awesome behind the screen scenes. we are going to watch all of them!
oh one more thing, you really HAVE to try the EVE 14-day free trial. its at www.eve-online.com , don't forget and try it!
"Ruined" is a bit extreme, or maybe I'm just clinging to a shred of optimism, due to the absurdity of such a problem. At the very least, however, I'd say modern graphics are a huge impediment to good games. It's not just graphics, either. Graphics are the worst of it, but look at games like Oblivion, sacrificing tons of dialogue possibilities, so that that the NPCs can discuss mudcrabs all day long, in full 3d sound.
I miss the days when small groups of devs could make a game. It just takes too many to do all the graphics and everything, and creativity gets totally lost along the way. MMORPGs suffering the worst of it, maybe due to the further complication of net code, and the much higher overhead costs to run servers.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Yes graphics have ruined computer games. Why? How? Simple. COST. Modern video games cost way more to develop than games 10 years ago because the engine and art development costs are so much higher. So the end result is that developers/publishers cant gamble very much on niche games. Almost everything these days are sequels, rehashes and spinoffs. Another doom, another quake, another sims, another madden etc. Basically sure bets. Publishers have 1 major failure and they are basically out of business. There have been plenty of articles posted on this subject.
Originally posted by keke` Once upon a time, there were games that would hold you in the same spot for hours or even force you to start all over, wondering if you had missed something important. There were games with a world in which you could go amazingly deep, explore all the wonders, all the easter eggs and all the cleverness of the developers' minds. These games were of course single player games for the Amiga, NES/SNES and the various other consoles and console lookalikes, and of course also the early PC stages.
Then we reached the era of online gaming, with MUDs and the ever-so-popular UO, providing massive worlds and loads of possibilities, and worlds that could easily be expanded due to the low graphical requirements. I actually thought online gaming would be brilliant, however I was wrong...
So now we have what? We have the anime games where at any stage in game, there exist only one or two useful combinations of attack spells, only one efficient sword and only one efficient bow. Everyone wears the same kind of armor as it's the best, and everyone builds their characters the same way, and then we have World of Warcraft which is exactly the same, where every person strives to get a hold of that best armor and that best weapon.
And then I ask, where has the depth gone? Although single player games like Zelda and Final Fantasy strive to keep up with the depth and many hours of gameplay they were once able to provide, we still see that it gets easier and easier to get through these games, and they have decreasingly little extra features compared to what was once offered. So what could be the reason? Are developers simply not as clever as they once were, or is simply because the evil companies always strive to have that wow-factor on their side, seeing as they keep hiring more and more 3D modellers?
The requirements for making games, they say, are sky-high. The costs, they say, are insane. But why oh why is it, that even though the big gaming corporations can keep hiring more and more people, yet they still produce worse and worse games, when it was once possible for 10 people to create a game, that even to this day can still make the youngsters go "wow" if they actually bother sitting down and play the game?
So I'm wondering; where did it go wrong? Was it the invention of the CDROM, that instead of 1.44MB now gave developers 700MB to play with, or are the new game developers simply dumber than those before them?
If anyone working within the game-developing world wants to answer any of my questions then go ahead, but for everyone else, these are just my thoughts (and many others'). It's just thoughts I want to let out, it's not flaming or namecalling, no matter how you read it, and I'm not going to bother answering people who think that it is.
What happened, happened to you, not the games, just like it happened to me and 99% of the people who come to this site. In fact, the fact that we came to this site is pretty much the main symptom of what happened to us.
We grew up, we got jaded, we got spoiled. Take your pick, but that's what happened.
Graphics haven't ruined anything. HL2 was more fun than HL, Virtua FIghter 5 is a hell of a lot better than the original and I had a lot more fun in WOW than UO. Good games have depth, fun and great graphics. I've never played an amazing game thinking the whole time, the graphics really stink. Way back in pre-Atari 2600 days when grapahics were bad across the board, gameplay was all that mattered. Now, I've got to have it all, or its just a waste of my time.
Graphics don't ruin games. Bad developers ruin games. I've played plenty of cool games with lousy graphics and lousy games with great graphics. I just can't play the lousy looking games any more, but I can still have fun with an awesome looking game even if the gameplay is a bit derivitive. Amazing graphics can overcome certain gameplay deficiences=) Times have changed.
We shouldn't have to settle for one or the other, graphics or gameplay, we can have both and deserve both. It's up to us collectively as gamers to demand both by voting with our dollars and not accepting less.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by Vhaln I think it only holds true for RPGs, because of thier complexity. Action games are still getting better and better.
Well to be honest, Counter-Strike 1.6 is still the most popular first person shooter, like it or not. Why? Because it's got so much depth to it, rather then all those pathetically ridiculous and useless features which are in the Source version. Knocking over barrels, shooting stuff around the maps. Who gives a ? Sure the companies think it's great to have those niche details, but players don't care apparently. You also see the 1on1 FPS games such as Quake4, the people who play those games on a high level also wish QuakeWorld (a Quake 1 mod, for those of you who don't know it) and Q3 CPMA (a Quake 3 Pro mod for those of you who don't know) around, simply because those games were so damn simple, but it took so much skill to be the best. To me, Quake4 is more about pleasing the executives who want good graphics rather than making a good and playable game.
Originally posted by Jorev We shouldn't have to settle for one or the other, graphics or gameplay, we can have both and deserve both. It's up to us collectively as gamers to demand both by voting with our dollars and not accepting less.
But you are doing a cop out. To say what you are saying is not interesting. gameplay>graphics.
Comments
You got to be kidding your saying EvE a better game to sign up to?? There more content in WoW just in the patch every month then EvE could dream of.
WoW is a good example on ok graphics and gameply... It not about how much polygons you have but how the art drawn togethor. like, Does it make you feel like your in another world/time. Maybe that why people said the gameplay good but the graphics sucks. The graphics just need to make you believe you are in another world.
Also, I played Darwinia. I didn't like the type of game but it ok.
I'm sorry, I can't remember I said EVE was a better game?
wow, this is something to remember. someone is accusing Gameloading of saying that EVE is better than WoW. Now i have seen everything
so, Gameloading, how does it feel to be an EVE fanboy for some seconds?
Feels good, I just noticed the light lately when I played the 14 day trial
(www.eve-online.com for the 14-day free trial, you should really check it out right now!)
I never liked EVE untill recently. I geuss I just wasn't mature and inteligent enough to play EVE before, But I am proud to say that I have finally caught up to the maturity and inteligence of my fellow EVE players. I still realise there are many people who don't like EVE, but hey, we can't all be as mature and smart as me and the other EVE players, right? I mean, they can just go back to WoW and have fun there, along with the other 6 million kids. its not that WoW is better then EVE, its just that so many people don't have the IQ that is required to play EVE. besides, most of them are carebear. they can't play real games, like EVE. they are sucky gamers, those carebears. they don't have the inteligence and guts required to be a real pvp pro, like an EVE players. they should stick with their carebear Wow.
anyway, I have to stop typing now. my friend is here, he bought the Star Trek Collecters edition. it has those awesome behind the screen scenes. we are going to watch all of them!
oh one more thing, you really HAVE to try the EVE 14-day free trial. its at www.eve-online.com , don't forget and try it!
I miss the days when small groups of devs could make a game. It just takes too many to do all the graphics and everything, and creativity gets totally lost along the way. MMORPGs suffering the worst of it, maybe due to the further complication of net code, and the much higher overhead costs to run servers.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Yes...absolutely...my gaming experience has been absolutely ruined by Myst, Unreal, Half-Life, and countless games with spectacular graphics.
What happened, happened to you, not the games, just like it happened to me and 99% of the people who come to this site. In fact, the fact that we came to this site is pretty much the main symptom of what happened to us.
We grew up, we got jaded, we got spoiled. Take your pick, but that's what happened.
Graphics haven't ruined anything. HL2 was more fun than HL, Virtua FIghter 5 is a hell of a lot better than the original and I had a lot more fun in WOW than UO. Good games have depth, fun and great graphics. I've never played an amazing game thinking the whole time, the graphics really stink. Way back in pre-Atari 2600 days when grapahics were bad across the board, gameplay was all that mattered. Now, I've got to have it all, or its just a waste of my time.
Graphics don't ruin games. Bad developers ruin games. I've played plenty of cool games with lousy graphics and lousy games with great graphics. I just can't play the lousy looking games any more, but I can still have fun with an awesome looking game even if the gameplay is a bit derivitive. Amazing graphics can overcome certain gameplay deficiences=) Times have changed.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
=====================
-Just My Thoughts-
Max
Currently playing: Nothing
many of these posts are truely philosophical...
anyway, i do not believe graphics have to do anything with the subpar games of lately.
Graphics ruined the players not the games. Whats the most whined topic? OMG.. this graphics in the MMO teh sux.
All canceled. Waiting on Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning.