America: Freedom to Fascism

hartam · July 2006

Trailer

I hope this movie opens up in as much theaters as possible.

hazmats · July 2006

I recognize some of the police clips... all of which to my recollection were legitimate uses of force.

Another scare tactic movie trying to scare me to pay them money.

Kyoruto · July 2006

I want to see it. I have an unhealthy fixation on these sorts of things. They intrust me so much to see others veiws and takes on what could be or will be.

admriker444 · July 2006

Originally posted by Gunblade

There is a law for income tax. Most people who say there isn't spend all their money in courts trying to win a futile battle.
Incorrect. The 16th Amendment does not give the goverment the power to tax labor. In fact, there are at least 6 different Supreme Court rulings that state the 16th amendment does not allow for such a tax. Futhermore, the amendment was actually meant to tax corporate gains but corporations have tried to pass this tax along to employees by labeling their labor as a capitol gains.
Right now according to the IRS, there are over 60 million people who havent filed a W2 for taxes. Thats roughly 20% of the country that not paying their taxes. Factor in the numbers that cant pay taxes (children, unemployed, etc) and the percentage rises to close to 50% of americans not paying taxes.
And its far from futile court fight. In the instances where the judge isnt a political tool and has allowed a reputable defense, the defendant has won many cases. Typically, the argument is "show me the law im violating" and since the goverment cant, the defendant wins. And by the way, my Mother is an accountant and so is my father-in-law. Both agree there technically isnt any law requiring you to file a W2.
I have studied facism since I was 11, and love WWII history. I can tell you America is no where NEAR a facsist system and anyone portraying a sign, or title as such is mis-informed and does not quite understand what exactly fascism is.
Musolini stated that fascism is really goverment and corporations colluding together, we certainly are living in such an environment.
Fascism was imported to this country long before WW2 begun. A secret group known as the Illuminati (means enlightened ones) in Germany allowed a charter group to be formed in the United States. Its only location is at Yale University and is called Skull and Bones. President Bush is a member.
I am only going to be scared of my government when they want to take away my right to bear arms.
You should be more scared of the 800 concentration camps througout the country all empty but fully manned and operational. That and an Attorney General that feels that american citizens should be allowed to be labeled enemy combatants and have their rights stripped. You should be afraid of the many executive orders out there (which by the way is unconstitutional as only congress may legislate) which with the stroke of a pen can institute martial law. Some of the more scarey ones include forced labor camps, taking away all modes of transportation, complete control of media, etc.
Oh and I like the remark near the end of the trailer....uhm times have changed "salvation" (as he put it) is the government, and it is not the most dangerous threat we will face in our lives, what is this the 17th century?

Dabble · July 2006

Originally posted by admriker444

Originally posted by Gunblade

There is a law for income tax. Most people who say there isn't spend all their money in courts trying to win a futile battle.
Incorrect. The 16th Amendment does not give the goverment the power to tax labor. In fact, there are at least 6 different Supreme Court rulings that state the 16th amendment does not allow for such a tax. Futhermore, the amendment was actually meant to tax corporate gains but corporations have tried to pass this tax along to employees by labeling their labor as a capitol gains.
Right now according to the IRS, there are over 60 million people who havent filed a W2 for taxes. Thats roughly 20% of the country that not paying their taxes. Factor in the numbers that cant pay taxes (children, unemployed, etc) and the percentage rises to close to 50% of americans not paying taxes.
And its far from futile court fight. In the instances where the judge isnt a political tool and has allowed a reputable defense, the defendant has won many cases. Typically, the argument is "show me the law im violating" and since the goverment cant, the defendant wins. And by the way, my Mother is an accountant and so is my father-in-law. Both agree there technically isnt any law requiring you to file a W2.
I have studied facism since I was 11, and love WWII history. I can tell you America is no where NEAR a facsist system and anyone portraying a sign, or title as such is mis-informed and does not quite understand what exactly fascism is.
Musolini stated that fascism is really goverment and corporations colluding together, we certainly are living in such an environment.
Fascism was imported to this country long before WW2 begun. A secret group known as the Illuminati (means enlightened ones) in Germany allowed a charter group to be formed in the United States. Its only location is at Yale University and is called Skull and Bones. President Bush is a member.
I am only going to be scared of my government when they want to take away my right to bear arms.
You should be more scared of the 800 concentration camps througout the country all empty but fully manned and operational. That and an Attorney General that feels that american citizens should be allowed to be labeled enemy combatants and have their rights stripped. You should be afraid of the many executive orders out there (which by the way is unconstitutional as only congress may legislate) which with the stroke of a pen can institute martial law. Some of the more scarey ones include forced labor camps, taking away all modes of transportation, complete control of media, etc.
Oh and I like the remark near the end of the trailer....uhm times have changed "salvation" (as he put it) is the government, and it is not the most dangerous threat we will face in our lives, what is this the 17th century?

and to what end? Do you really think that this government would upset our economy buy cattle-caring us off to the gas chambers?

The U.S. government doesn't need to do any of this drastic shit. After all the crazy shit this administration has done, it still has the approval of half the country.

We americans are fat and happy. We are stupid and ignorant. The government has already won.

Dabble · July 2006

Oh and btw...

When was this country EVER free?

Never, in the history of this country has it ever been free to all the people living within its borders.

Slavery, American Indians, Mormons, etc. etc.

Merodoc · July 2006

Admiriker, do you think before you post? Oh, silly question. Of course you don't. You believe any news article with a fancy typeface you read online and consider it canon. Skull and Bones is a drinking, partying, getting-trashed-with-other-rich-kids social club at Yale. Bush happened to go to Yale. Bush is rich and was a heavy drinker in his better years. He didn't conspire to rule the world, and the Illuminati have no real connections to anything and have been debunked--but it's your (fake) sources against mine, so let's not pursue the subject.

As for you thinking that the government has terror camps set up in the United States (800 of them, no less), I cannot believe you actually think the government has the money, excess manpower, and secrecy needed to keep such an operation covert.

But, anyway, you are a lost cause--already brainwashed and stoked on your conspiracies.

hazmats · July 2006

Originally posted by Merodoc

Admiriker, do you think before you post? Oh, silly question. Of course you don't. You believe any news article with a fancy typeface you read online and consider it canon. Skull and Bones is a drinking, partying, getting-trashed-with-other-rich-kids social club at Yale. Bush happened to go to Yale. Bush is rich and was a heavy drinker in his better years. He didn't conspire to rule the world, and the Illuminati have no real connections to anything and have been debunked--but it's your (fake) sources against mine, so let's not pursue the subject.

As for you thinking that the government has terror camps set up in the United States (800 of them, no less), I cannot believe you actually think the government has the money, excess manpower, and secrecy needed to keep such an operation covert.

But, anyway, you are a lost cause--already brainwashed and stoked on your conspiracies.

OMG, you are just part of the Illuminati cog machine man! (I am totally joking here, and actually agree with you. The main problem nowadays is that they have this illuminati stuff on the History Channel.. they never say it's real, just that they do conspiracy theory stuff now.

Merodoc · July 2006

The same government that set up the ever-incompetent Department of Motor Vehicles can meanwhile set up a plot to send all Americans (most of whom give 30% of their paycheck to the government) to gas chambers.

Bravo, top-notch thinking on your behalf.

Dabble · July 2006

Originally posted by Merodoc

The same government that set up the ever-incompetent Department of Motor Vehicles can meanwhile set up a plot to send all Americans (most of whom give 30% of their paycheck to the government) to gas chambers.

Bravo, top-notch thinking on your behalf.

lol, OFT...

On another note, ever see that movie Loose Change? It's a whole 911 conspiricy thing. And while it does raise some very interesting facts and satistics, one thing keeps creeping in my brain just before they convince me that Bush and Co. did 911...

It is the U.S. government we are talking about here. These clowns can't do anything right. Also, we have leaks about phone taps and bank records...

Like the 911 mission, which would have to include thousands of people, wouldn't leak anything?

Ni99a, please

94Z07 · July 2006

Normally I dont flame even when I disagree. However, there are several absolutely stupid statements in this thread.

First off, fascism is a system where private parties own the factors of production and government directs the factors of production. While there are fascist elements in our society (minimum wage laws, racial quotas, gender quotas, regulated trading of securities, etc) the government, excepting WWII Roosevelts orders, does not tell private businesses when and what to produce. Therefore, this is not a fascist society.

Fascism has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with alleged police and paramilitary forces exceeding their authorities.

The 16th amendment does give the federal and state governments the power to tax all income.

Some clueless head full of mush wrote: Right now according to the IRS, there are over 60 million people who havent filed a W2 for taxes.

W2 forms are given from employers to employees. Not all income earners are W2 employees. There are the self employed and those whos only income is capital gains.

And this gem: Both agree there technically isnt any law requiring you to file a W2.

Of course, I file a 1040 long form. When I was younger and earned less I used form 1040EZ. If you claim income from wages you are required to attach a form W2 to those returns. I dont think there is a law requiring you to file the W2. There is a law requiring you to pay your income taxes and to submit form 1040, 1040a or 1040ez.

Bravo to whomever wrote this is mis-informed and does not quite understand what exactly fascism is.

More garbage: Musolini stated that fascism is really goverment and corporations colluding together, we certainly are living in such an environment.

So are you saying that since Musolini said it that makes it so? I think colluding is a convenient euphemism for do it my way or I will use the police power of the sate to compel you to do so.

Illuminati are not skull and bones. Maybe youve watched too many Michael Moore films to know what is fantasy and what is fact.

Someone offered this: I am only going to be scared of my government when they want to take away my right to bear arms.

Actually the freedom guaranteed in the second amendment is that your rights to arms shall not be infringed. They are under constant infringement, sadly. The gun grabbing leftist will point to the freedom of the press and extend that to propaganda arms like CNN. But will say about the second amendment that the framers could not known of machine guns, metallic cartridges, etc. The framers meant you could keep black powder weapons that were not riffled and muzzle loading only. So they are very willing to accept technology in one area and not at all in another. Sadly this is only one example of activist judges.

What a load of crap this is: You should be more scared of the 800 concentration camps througout the country

Where exactly is one of these? When exactly did the federal government post these job openings?

Dabble · July 2006

lol..

gotta love it

noname12345 · July 2006

Originally posted by Dabble

Originally posted by Merodoc

The same government that set up the ever-incompetent Department of Motor Vehicles can meanwhile set up a plot to send all Americans (most of whom give 30% of their paycheck to the government) to gas chambers.
I'm sure if they have a plan to send innocent Americans into prisons then they probably don't give a shit about the DMV's performance. The same people the set up the DMV are not involved in the prisons either. We have a thing called "departments" in our government. It's so people don't have to do everything in America but instead specialize.

Bravo, top-notch thinking on your behalf.

lol, OFT...

On another note, ever see that movie Loose Change? It's a whole 911 conspiricy thing. And while it does raise some very interesting facts and satistics, one thing keeps creeping in my brain just before they convince me that Bush and Co. did 911...
Not "did" it... complicit.

It is the U.S. government we are talking about here. These clowns can't do anything right. Also, we have leaks about phone taps and bank records...
Wow some people in the US government actually do give a shit about the America's well-being. You think they are all after blood? Most of them are good people, so they leak things.

Like the 911 mission, which would have to include thousands of people, wouldn't leak anything?
You think all of those "thousands" of people had to hear the entire story (big picture) of the plan they were involved in? Ever heard of a "need to know basis"? You don't think they could have just done little parts that seemed normal and indirect to what happened on 9/11? Heck they could have been lied too for all I know. These types of things happen all the time in the government/military.
Anyways I don't know where you get "thousands", but it doesn't really matter to me. These "thousands" of people involved in the conspiracy could have been from all over the world including the US. It's all specualtion regarding the "thousands" of people.

Ni99a, please

Kyoruto · July 2006

Well, on the gun thing. I'm guessing you are saying about the higher heavy assult weapons? Which one can own, but not only do you have to have a FFL (I think thats what it is) But to own something like a Quad Cannon you'd have to go through the government to aquire a license.

94Z07 · July 2006

Why is it that many of the same idiots who think Vince Foster actually did kill himself are the very same idiots who think 911 was anything other than an attack by islamofascists? I bet they like NASCAR since there are only left turns.

94Z07 · July 2006

Originally posted by Kyoruto
Well, on the gun thing. I'm guessing you are saying about the higher heavy assult weapons? Which one can own, but not only do you have to have a FFL (I think thats what it is) But to own something like a Quad Cannon you'd have to go through the government to aquire a license.

Nothing so exotic as that. I own an M1 carbine. It shoots rounds smaller than many handguns. But it was banned under Clinton's pandering bill which labeled many guns "assault weapons My gun was so labeled because it has a bayonet lug on it. Tell me the times youve heard of someone being bayoneted outside a warzone?

Firearms were not regulated very much at all before 1968. My point is that shall not be infringed is very clearly written. What do you think would happen if newspapers were limited to no more than 1,000 copies per day circulation? Exactly where is the language in the constitution that says Al Frankin can go on the air each day and show his ass? If people wanted to limit firearms there is a legal way to do it. The constitution can be amended. The process is purposely long and difficult. The reason it hasnt been attempted is that the anti-gun left know that they would never get two thirds of the states to agree with it. So where does the left go when they cant win elections? They go to court. And judges effectively nullify rights for them. They interpret words shall not be infringed to mean that gun looks scary even though it only shoots .22 caliber rounds it shall be banned.

Kyoruto · July 2006

Hmmm.. This is very intrusting too. What falls under that catagory of assult weapons? Because, I mean I know I can go and really looking forward to purchasing a FAL along with other firearms I might be so inclinded to buy.

noname12345 · July 2006

Originally posted by 94Z07

Why is it that many of the same idiots who think Vince Foster actually did kill himself are the very same idiots who think 911 was anything other than an attack by islamofascists?
Because those handful of "islamofascists" with boxcutters outsmarted the most powerful country in the world even though we had been forewarned. Excuse me as I question it.
I bet they like NASCAR since there are only left turns.
I hate Nascar and I think you are implying that i'm a liberal when i'm in fact a libertarian/conservative. I swear to God it's like saying someone is a liberal is half you people's argument.

94Z07 · July 2006

Fortunately the Brady bill expired. The firearms listed were selected by a staffer who sat at her desk and paged through a catolog. When she saw a gun that looked scary to her she added to the list. To answer your question the definition was not a scientific one. It was a list of known models. Also, no removable magazine could have a greater than 10 round capacity. Existing weapons and paraphernalia could be owned and maintained by their current owners. Federal Firearms License (FFL) are for dealers and brokers. You don't need one unless you want to buy and sell guns and ship them via common carriers.

If you want a machine gun or sub-machine gun (the former shoots rifle rounds the later shoots pistol rounds), if you want a silencer, if you want a large caliber gun or cannon, if you want a flash suppressor, then you need yourself an exotic weapons license. Had you owned these before 1968 you could get the license for free. That is you not your father or your uncle but you. Suppose you want to buy one today or, God forbid, your father dies and leaves one to you in a will, you will need the following: First, find a class three dealer have the gun brought to the dealer in person. Pay the BATF a $200 non-refundable fee for tax transfer. Pay the dealer a fee. Pay for your very own FBI background screening. Get a letter from local law enforcement endorsing you to own such a weapon in their jurisdiction. Send the letter to the BATF and hope all the is are dotted and ts are crossed or else you may have to re-file everything. When you get the license you can then have the dealer enter your name in his book and take the gun home. You can never bare the gun in public. You can use it on your land and others land with their permission. All the while you do this you can question the meaning of shall not be infringed :P

Kyoruto · July 2006

Well, I can see the Silencer. That thing is meant to bassically kill without being noticed. I almost don't understand without having to go through the procedures to get a fully automatic rifle. If we are allowed to have weapons to protect ourselves... I'd think if an invading force would come in... They wouldn't be using semi automatic weapons. BTW Yay! Milita!

94Z07 · July 2006

Your words: I swear to God it's like saying someone is a liberal is half you people's argument.

Obviously you are not very bright, Alex.

You cannot form a sentence but you expect us to believe you have something more complex all figured out?

How do you account for the eyewitnesses? How do you account for the surveillance video record?

Never mind. Dont answer. Enjoy the extra chromosome or the extra pot that makes you so special.

admriker444 · July 2006

All one needs to do is google internment camps or concentration camps in USA and you'll see the proof. But folks will always disbelieve the seemingly impossible because its too horrible to fathom. FEMA who manages the camps even has a list of them (their list contains only 300 but there are more)

Folks, there are pictures of these camps on the web. The goverment doesnt even deny they exist. In fact they admit to this fact. They claim these camps are in case we get a massive wave of illegal immigrants and need a place to keep them to process back to their land. Of course thats total BS as we have 12+ million immigrants in this country now.

And perhaps you arent familiar with history at all ? Our goverment in 1942 used some of the very same camps then to detain american citizens of japanese / german / italian heritage because it deemed them a threat. Despite a Constitution and a Bill of Rights, these americans were locked up. Many thousands died from the horrid conditions. And 50 years later, our goverment quietly apologized and payed some reparations.

To the person who says Skull and Bones is nothing but a drunken frat house, again total ignorance there. If you do any research at all you'll find the names of the most powerful people in this country's history have all been members.

Finally about taxes. Again do some research on the subject. You'll learn that first off, the 16th amendment was designed to be a tax on corporate gains. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with a tax on labor. In addition, if you read the constitution you'll know that it is illegal to apply a tax unapportioned on americans. This means any tax must be equal for all, ie you cant have a 10% tax bracket...20% tax bracket, etc. The Constitution is very clear on this. Also, if you read the 16th amendment you'll see that the tax on corporate gains is only for income gains on non-US citizens and corporations. Therefore if you are a US citizen, you dont PAY !!!

All documents pertaining to taxes, W2 1040 etc have no law requiring us citizens to fill them out. Doing so is voluntary. Also, there is NO law stating one must pay a tax on labor. It doesnt exist. Ask your IRS office to submit a copy of the law to you....they cant. The only thing they can provide is an IRS tax code which says you must but this is NOT a law.

Again, do some research and stop being a naysayer without any facts to back it up. The IRS itself states anywhere from 60-68 million people didnt file to pay income taxes last year...this isnt my opinion this comes from the IRS.

Oh and finally do some additional research on the 16th amendment. Even if you somehow think this amendment gives the goverment the right (6 different supreme court decisions say it doesnt) to tax us....guess what, it was never properly and legally ratified. Again do the research. It is a FACT that the necessary 38 states needed to ratify this amendment didnt happen. To date, only 22 states ratified this amendment but it was bogusly claimed to be law.

I and several other professors whom Ive worked with have done extensive research on this subject. We arent speculating our opinions or spewing out media propaganda like some here are. The facts are on our side, whether you wish to believe is up to you.

noname12345 · July 2006

Originally posted by 94Z07

Your words: “I swear to God it's like saying someone is a liberal is half you people's argument.”
Obviously you are not very bright, Alex.
Oh well.
You cannot form a sentence but you expect us to believe you have something more complex all figured out?
If grammar is your thing, then this forum may not be your cup of tea. I have already seen some grammar mistakes from you and Kyoruto and yet you don't bitch at him or yourself. I can only conclude you are just trying to discredit me.
How do you account for the eyewitnesses?
On the plane? Those cell phone calls were not possible.
How do you account for the surveillance video record?
There are problems with the video because Khalid al-Mihdhar that was apparently on the video (with no timestamp) and then allegedly boarded the plane....he is actually alive. Then there is that other video with another hijacker with two timestamps with different times on them (not sure what that is about). It's also wierd how there isn't more video of them when airports have video everywhere including people actually boarding the plane. http://www.vialls.com/wtc/clueless.html
Never mind. Don’t answer. Enjoy the extra chromosome or the extra pot that makes you so special.

admriker444 · July 2006

Some links to help open minded people do some research.

About taxes and the constitutional right to petition the goverment see here....

http://www.givemeliberty.org/ This group has been trying to get the goverment to show the law requiring taxes for years. They have since then gone to court to try and force the goverment to respond. The right to petition for answers is a basic right of americans in the constitution and yet the goverment refuses to respond

A bit of info on Skull and Bones...

http://skullandcrossbones.org/articles/skullandbones.htm

And finally, look at the entity behind a need for taxes. Before 1913, this country had no income tax. How did we pay bills, build roads, schools, etc ? Simple, we have more than enough funds from sales, tarrifs, and excise taxes. The Federal Reserve act of 1913 (same year income tax collections started) required the goverment pay interest on money the Fed prints. To get funding to cover that debt, the income tax was born. Simple...get rid of the Federal Reserve and we have no need for an income tax system.

Oh and by the way for the naysayers...the Federal Reserve is also unconstitutional as only congress can print coin / money AND it must be backed by gold or silver.

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/today/articles/fedprivatelyowned.htm

modjoe86 · July 2006

Originally posted by admriker444

All one needs to do is google internment camps or concentration camps in USA and you'll see the proof. But folks will always disbelieve the seemingly impossible because its too horrible to fathom. FEMA who manages the camps even has a list of them (their list contains only 300 but there are more)
Folks, there are pictures of these camps on the web. The goverment doesnt even deny they exist. In fact they admit to this fact. They claim these camps are in case we get a massive wave of illegal immigrants and need a place to keep them to process back to their land. Of course thats total BS as we have 12+ million immigrants in this country now.
And perhaps you arent familiar with history at all ? Our goverment in 1942 used some of the very same camps then to detain american citizens of japanese / german / italian heritage because it deemed them a threat. Despite a Constitution and a Bill of Rights, these americans were locked up. Many thousands died from the horrid conditions. And 50 years later, our goverment quietly apologized and payed some reparations.
To the person who says Skull and Bones is nothing but a drunken frat house, again total ignorance there. If you do any research at all you'll find the names of the most powerful people in this country's history have all been members.
Finally about taxes. Again do some research on the subject. You'll learn that first off, the 16th amendment was designed to be a tax on corporate gains. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with a tax on labor. In addition, if you read the constitution you'll know that it is illegal to apply a tax unapportioned on americans. This means any tax must be equal for all, ie you cant have a 10% tax bracket...20% tax bracket, etc. The Constitution is very clear on this. Also, if you read the 16th amendment you'll see that the tax on corporate gains is only for income gains on non-US citizens and corporations. Therefore if you are a US citizen, you dont PAY !!!
All documents pertaining to taxes, W2 1040 etc have no law requiring us citizens to fill them out. Doing so is voluntary. Also, there is NO law stating one must pay a tax on labor. It doesnt exist. Ask your IRS office to submit a copy of the law to you....they cant. The only thing they can provide is an IRS tax code which says you must but this is NOT a law.
Again, do some research and stop being a naysayer without any facts to back it up. The IRS itself states anywhere from 60-68 million people didnt file to pay income taxes last year...this isnt my opinion this comes from the IRS.
Oh and finally do some additional research on the 16th amendment. Even if you somehow think this amendment gives the goverment the right (6 different supreme court decisions say it doesnt) to tax us....guess what, it was never properly and legally ratified. Again do the research. It is a FACT that the necessary 38 states needed to ratify this amendment didnt happen. To date, only 22 states ratified this amendment but it was bogusly claimed to be law.
I and several other professors whom Ive worked with have done extensive research on this subject. We arent speculating our opinions or spewing out media propaganda like some here are. The facts are on our side, whether you wish to believe is up to you.

Considering almost every politician attends Yale at some point, being a member of Skull and Bones isn't a huge stretch. But by all means, believe it runs the country.

Aldaron · July 2006

1st ammendment...freedom to speech. So they could verbally stick it to the man!

2nd ammendment...freedom to bear arms. So if verbal use didn't work, some lead would.

Militia's, decentralization, states being sovereign, freedom for everyone to own things that go, *pow* - It was all so the federal government wouldn't become like it is now - Controlling all of us...

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