Well, my original question certainly hit a nerve somewhere. It is good to see that I'm not the only one who has had a hard time finding good wholesome gamer fun after the death of SWG. I really want a game like Vanguard to succeed and have a great RP community, but SOE is lurking in the shadows which makes me shiver. LOTR seems to be another well-known IP going down the drain due to corporation-thinking. *Sigh* still no home for us Refugees, it seems...
PS: It seems that the Refugees have shaken off the initial shock ,however ... ( clicky)
Actually not for me I just won't play anything that SOE has to offer, I do play the ps2 games from lucas arts, and i'm looking to play some MMO that will fill the gap, I'm just burned out on SOE lies, has made me gun shy of sony online entertainment. I played swg for 2 years and would be playing now had they not brought out the NGE I could take the Combat upgrade even though it basically wreaked my play style I did adapt to the changes but the NGE really did it in for me. Mostly all my freinds left the game and besides the game changed in ways that I didn't like not to mention the ghost towns that used to have thousands of players in them.
There are so many people who lament the ongoing death of SWG. My question turns toward that bitterness and sense of loss. Do you guys feel that after the CU/NGE "Night of the Long Knives" changes that you just can't seem to enjoy other games be they single or MMO. Yes you can go play great singleplayer games, but after some time you realize you want human interaction, not AI one-way interaction. You find yourself playing WoW and realize how much greater pre-CU was. You play ffp games over the net and get bored within the first 10 minutes.
As for myself I just can't seem to enjoy other games because I keep thinking back and comparing these games to what I had. I guess this is way I visit this site from time to time...
"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this is mine" Dritzz Darkwood rifleman/Doc Corbantis
I agree on the single-player part...once you get involved with a game that's all about its community, its players...its hard to go back to a single-player only (except for a very well-crafted RPG, like KOTOR in my opinion...because in some cases its like a good book). Even with games (like shooters) that have a single-player aspect, those of us who have experienced whats it like vs other people always go back to it - not the singleplayer experience. That's boring once you're done, but with other folks...its always something new.
At any rate, of how SWG has been handled in the last 3 years...it didn't necessarily put me off games or mmos in general, just SOE products. It's the only sony game Ill even think of playing for the forseable future...and its only because of the community that's still left. Kinda sad in a way, but true.
SWG was my first real MMORPG ... what came as a real surprise, as someone who works at a company that makes security software, is just the shockingly low standard of quality that the industry accepts as ROUTINE.
At least, people tell me that SOE's quality is not exceptionally bad, by game industry standards. I'll take their word on it. But ... it's still pretty bad.
SWG has made me cautious ... I need to hear word-of-mouth that a game looks great, plays great, and is RUN great before I'll invest the money now. SWG looked great ... it occasionally played great .... but almost from day 1, it was only run in one direction ---- into the ground.
I never found a better game than SWG. I know NGE is boring but Star Wars is Star Wars. And i can be without those friends i had there and i have there.
SWG was never a good game. Yes, I said never. What it was, was a game that in it's pre-CU form, carried the most promise of any mmorpg released other than possibly EVE. What I mean by that is that it carried the best hope for nonlinear progression, open content, open economy, with an excellent social atmosphere that everyone fully understood and participated.
I know that some of you might argue that once player cities, ridable mounts, and space were implemented, it fulfilled the role of "good game" as close as you could get at the time. You may be right. But I still say that when looked at objectively over it's entire timeline, SWG has never truely been able to maintain a standard that I consider a "good game." This is where SOE's flaws in development come into play. I am not going to list them all, suffice to say, from content promised at release but not delivered through the recent ranking system, they have made one mistake after another.
Anyhow, back on topic, SWG ruined nothing as far as gaming. When I played SWG, I always felt it was a game not to be taken too seriously. Therefore, as long as I was having some fun, I played. When it grew boring or annoying, I moved on.
I loved the game as it was before the changes because it was casual and the community was second to none. Due to work and RL sometimes I could only log in and play for 30-60 minutes or less. Games like EQ, EQ2 and wow seem to require hours of gameplay in a session to accomplish something. I could log into SWG and just chat with friends, go to the cantina and socialize, or I could craft and restock my vendors. On the nites I had time to play, there were also lots of options as well. I could go sell my buisiness, go to parties, or do whatever I like. To me nothing has come close to replacing SWG because of this. Yes I tried EQ2 and WOW. But I find that I quickly fell behind everyone and all the friends I made quickly out leveled me because I could not keep up with the pace. I did play EQ1 before SWG and it took me 4 years to reach the top level. Yes it was a great game, and still is, however I do not have 4-6 hours to play everynite to get my full use out of the game. I find that I play EQ1 now again after the game changes killed my proffesions .I only go to raids anymore because I do not have the time to go out for XP sessions. I miss SWG because I find that just going to the cantina to socialize with the other 2 people in there nowadays is no longer fun like it used to be. I ran a tailor shop for 2 years and made lots of friends and had thousands of customers. But after the game changes it all changed. I stuck it out through the Combat Upgrade, and my buisiness still did well. The game changes did kill my Doctor, but I had my tailor still to fall back on. After the NGE changes, my customer base went from hundreds to a handfull. I went from making 2-3million a week to making 50k a week. And yes 90% of my profit was Bio Enhanced clothing, which was made useless. There is no point in staying and selling some hawtpants for 800 credits anymore to the 3 people a week that came into my shop. I loved the interaction between me and the customers. Loved helping them pick out outfits. Loved going to weddings and dressing everyone. Was exiting when I would be making a jedi some bio enhanced clothing and a Bounty Hunter would come in and attack him, in my shop! lol. I miss going to the parties, dancing in the cantina's and interacting with all the players. And the best part was If I only had 30 minutes to play, I could get things accomplished. I didnt have to play for 5 hours to get something accomplished like the other games out there, such as EQ or WOW.
Originally posted by daeandor Okay, so here's my take:
SWG was never a good game. Yes, I said never. What it was, was a game that in it's pre-CU form, carried the most promise of any mmorpg released other than possibly EVE. What I mean by that is that it carried the best hope for nonlinear progression, open content, open economy, with an excellent social atmosphere that everyone fully understood and participated.
I know that some of you might argue that once player cities, ridable mounts, and space were implemented, it fulfilled the role of "good game" as close as you could get at the time. You may be right. But I still say that when looked at objectively over it's entire timeline, SWG has never truely been able to maintain a standard that I consider a "good game." This is where SOE's flaws in development come into play. I am not going to list them all, suffice to say, from content promised at release but not delivered through the recent ranking system, they have made one mistake after another.
Anyhow, back on topic, SWG ruined nothing as far as gaming. When I played SWG, I always felt it was a game not to be taken too seriously. Therefore, as long as I was having some fun, I played. When it grew boring or annoying, I moved on.
How could pre-cu not be a good game? We all obviously would love to play it again in a heartbeat. Is good rated on enjoyment factor, or how polished it was?
Yes, SWG had its flaws, and most games do to some extent. But it was MY kind of flaws.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
People are remembering the old game with unrealistic zeal. Shayde for instance has said time and time again how he hated the old Jedi stuff, yet thats all PvP ever was in the old game. Battles were won by jedi and jedi alone. Lag was insane, more bugs than I can count and man what a grindfest it was...
Yea I would still rather they had continued to devolpe the old game rather than going to the new PvP point and shoot style it is now, but I remember clearly what the old game was like. As a last comment I would say this about the old game...
Didn't like it? Wait 5 seconds and they will completely change it. There was never any consistancy in the old game.
No but it did open my eyes to seeing somthing happen that I am not sure ever has at this level.
You have a Franchise that we all loved before SOE was around, add in some coders and now you have a "SETUP" to love somthing like this.
SWG/SOE has done things that I never thought companies would do this boldly to customers, I know in our company or most that you could not shit on your customers and they would stay or come back.
I have learned that people for no matter what reason, will accept sub-par programing, sub-par customer support and allow themselves to be lied to, misslead, let down and more or less bait and switched and then just lay down and accept it.
I have learned that alot of people will trust and believe anything they are told or sold based on heresay.
I have learned that when your having the most fun in a game that it can be ripped from you in a heartbeat and to never trust a producer. Even if they bold face tell you that somthing is coming or "in the works"
I have learned that while "Paying no attention to the man behind the curtain" you can be pick pocketed your goods extremely fast all in the name of progress or using the excuse there of.
But most of all I think I have learned that even the most loved Name and Franchise that you grew up with, invested in, enjoyed , shared with your family CAN BE SEMI- RUINED by a simple exec staff making half assed choices for people based on some testing group that does not even matter. Or as they like to call it "The magical player base"..
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by maxanto People are remembering the old game with unrealistic zeal. Shayde for instance has said time and time again how he hated the old Jedi stuff, yet thats all PvP ever was in the old game. Battles were won by jedi and jedi alone. Lag was insane, more bugs than I can count and man what a grindfest it was...
Yea I would still rather they had continued to devolpe the old game rather than going to the new PvP point and shoot style it is now, but I remember clearly what the old game was like. As a last comment I would say this about the old game...
Didn't like it? Wait 5 seconds and they will completely change it. There was never any consistancy in the old game.
Thank goodness the last 9 months have just been great though....lol
I do like how a track record and common sense wins these battles though.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
There are still good games out there, you just have to look harder for them. Some of them don't get the attention they deserve, such as X3, a very open ended space sim, some do, like the excellent TES: Oblivion.
The gaming industry will eventually see a renaissance of sorts. Someday.
I wasn't into MMOs before SWG, probably because I'm fairly antisocial. I do enjoy having a small cadre of trusted friends with whom I can undertake missions and challenges, however, and I've learned to tolerate the mass of idiots while finding that cadre. SWG made MMOs fun. I currently alternate between CoX and WoW. I do solo alot, but once I find the right group of ppl I enjoy group activities as well. My only lament is that I haven't found a game as complex and challenging as pre-NGE SWG. Further, the NGE target market is generally that class of idiots whose company I enjoy the least. I've lost a terrific pasttime, but I'll find another eventually.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005 Now Playing: World of Warcrack Forum Terrorist
Originally posted by MrArchy No. I wasn't into MMOs before SWG, probably because I'm fairly antisocial. I do enjoy having a small cadre of trusted friends with whom I can undertake missions and challenges, however, and I've learned to tolerate the mass of idiots while finding that cadre. SWG made MMOs fun. I currently alternate between CoX and WoW. I do solo alot, but once I find the right group of ppl I enjoy group activities as well. My only lament is that I haven't found a game as complex and challenging as pre-NGE SWG. Further, the NGE target market is generally that class of idiots whose company I enjoy the least. I've lost a terrific pasttime, but I'll find another eventually.
I'm a bit like that. I never played a MMO before SWG, and I really haven't been able to like any of the MMO's that I've tried since. None of them have the complexity, scope, the feeling of individuality, the feeling of limitless potential that pre-CU SWG had.
Was it perfect? No. Was the CUNGE the answer? No, the numbers do not lie...
Originally posted by azhrarn After the old SWG, nothing else measures up anymore. Everything else just lacks the depth and possibility. It all seems so small, ugly and boring now. Unless some major miracle happens, once I leave SWG, I'm prolly leaving gaming behind as well. At least until somebody kicks the market in the jimmies hard enough to wake them up so that they start remembering that fun is more than kill-loot-repeat.
What she said.............
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
It hasn't destroyed my love for games, but it has seriously destroyed my opinion of Sony. I was one of the first to get a playstation when it came out, I got the second wave of the playstation 2s to hit the US. With what SOE did to SWG and with the fact that SOE will be running the PS3 live service, free or not, I will not be upgrading my playstation this time around. The arrogance of the parent company is apparant and it just filters down through the subsidiaries.
In short, SOE made me a future 360 owner. (waiting for their first price drop....probably at ps3 launch)
Originally posted by gladiatory2k It hasn't destroyed my love for games, but it has seriously destroyed my opinion of Sony. I was one of the first to get a playstation when it came out, I got the second wave of the playstation 2s to hit the US. With what SOE did to SWG and with the fact that SOE will be running the PS3 live service, free or not, I will not be upgrading my playstation this time around. The arrogance of the parent company is apparant and it just filters down through the subsidiaries.
In short, SOE made me a future 360 owner. (waiting for their first price drop....probably at ps3 launch)
Yeah, I refuse to buy Sony anything. And they are at the extreme scale of corporate arrogance to be sure, ie: the Sony rootkit scandal, etc.
Originally posted by Shayde How could pre-cu not be a good game? We all obviously would love to play it again in a heartbeat. Is good rated on enjoyment factor, or how polished it was?Yes, SWG had its flaws, and most games do to some extent. But it was MY kind of flaws.
Good to me incorporates both enjoyment and polish. SWG throughout it's history has varying amounts of each, but taken in their whole, I think some of our recollections of pre-CU are a little rosey. When the game first came out, I did not like it. Not because it was too complicated for my thirty-something brain at the time, but because the nuances of the game that were broken were frustrating. I saw potential and stuck with it. In the end, I have come and gone to a game which has lived in a perpetually half-broken state. A perpetually half-broken game is not good in my opinion.
BTW, no, we would not all love to play it again in a heartbeat. Maybe if they reincorporated pre-cu combat, classes and crafting, some of the class fixes from the CU (like CH, SL revamps), reimplemented all of the expansions / upgraded content, reimplimented GCW in a meaningful manner, made smugglers smuggle, made Jedi have perma-death, dropped the efficiency of buffing and the effectiveness of armor (pre-CU), reinvented a meaningful decay and death penalty, made space combat worth something other than a pve sidegame, made entertainers more useful than BF recovery, fixed the quest, graphics, ability, etc bugs, then maybe.
Originally posted by daeandor Originally posted by Shayde
How could pre-cu not be a good game? We all obviously would love to play it again in a heartbeat. Is good rated on enjoyment factor, or how polished it was?
Yes, SWG had its flaws, and most games do to some extent. But it was MY kind of flaws.
Good to me incorporates both enjoyment and polish. SWG throughout it's history has varying amounts of each, but taken in their whole, I think some of our recollections of pre-CU are a little rosey. When the game first came out, I did not like it. Not because it was too complicated for my thirty-something brain at the time, but because the nuances of the game that were broken were frustrating. I saw potential and stuck with it. In the end, I have come and gone to a game which has lived in a perpetually half-broken state. A perpetually half-broken game is not good in my opinion.
BTW, no, we would not all love to play it again in a heartbeat. Maybe if they reincorporated pre-cu combat, classes and crafting, some of the class fixes from the CU (like CH, SL revamps), reimplemented all of the expansions / upgraded content, reimplimented GCW in a meaningful manner, made smugglers smuggle, made Jedi have perma-death, dropped the efficiency of buffing and the effectiveness of armor (pre-CU), reinvented a meaningful decay and death penalty, made space combat worth something other than a pve sidegame, made entertainers more useful than BF recovery, fixed the quest, graphics, ability, etc bugs, then maybe.
Actually if they rolled a server back to day 7 (so we get the patches that fixed the launchday crashes), I would be there in a heartbeat, despite knowing that Commando would have a hard time getting XP for anything, as the only commando weapon working was the launcher pistol with a max damage of 20.
Yet I would be there and be a Commando, because by the end of the day, THAT game gave me satisfaction and the feeling of acomplishment.
The NGE don't give satisfaction or feeling of acomplishment. On the contrary, playing the NGE and getting something done, feels like you've just used a cheat for your singleplayer game.
As for the topic, yes.
SWG let me taste a world, a world where you could be anyone you wanted, a world where you were just a person making your way, a world where you needed other persons, a world that you can't find in MMO's or SP's now, because they ain't worlds, and they are all aimed at telling THEIR story, with you as the main uberduper whack-a-mole babestealing superhero of galaxysaving extraordinaire.
Simply put, SWG showed me what it would be to play in a world without being the superhero....And now, I know that being a superhero is not as exciting and fun as the way of life/game SWG showed me.
....Do you guys feel that after the CU/NGE "Night of the Long Knives" changes that you just can't seem to enjoy other games be they single or MMO......
To me it felt more like Krystalnacht. I just stood around while the game burned down and I (the player) was blamed for it happening.
I certaintly am more cautious when looking at other games. I pay attention the track record of the game designers to see if they might pull an SOE and trash all I might work for in that game.
As a side note, I am curious how I ended up in perpetual italics on that last post? Is it some side effect of Firefox I have not run into before? I vaguely recall people complaining that Firefox did strange stuff on these boards.
Originally posted by wolfmann Actually if they rolled a server back to day 7 (so we get the patches that fixed the launchday crashes), I would be there in a heartbeat, despite knowing that Commando would have a hard time getting XP for anything, as the only commando weapon working was the launcher pistol with a max damage of 20. ___________________________________________________________________________
To be honest wolfmann, I loved comando in those days too, but preferred it when they finally got our flamethrowers working. I think around publish 5 we were working quite well. IIRC we were on the verge of becoming FOTM then, but still, they were good days. One thing that I kicked myself for post-NGE was that I never reground Master Commando once badges were introduced. To this day, my first mastered elite profession goes unrecognized.
Comments
Well, my original question certainly hit a nerve somewhere. It is good to see that I'm not the only one who has had a hard time finding good wholesome gamer fun after the death of SWG. I really want a game like Vanguard to succeed and have a great RP community, but SOE is lurking in the shadows which makes me shiver. LOTR seems to be another well-known IP going down the drain due to corporation-thinking. *Sigh* still no home for us Refugees, it seems...
PS: It seems that the Refugees have shaken off the initial shock , however ... ( clicky)
Has it changed my preception of Star Wars?
Yes
You could tell the SWG players at EPIII Because they were the ones Cheering and laughing as the Jedi were slaughtered.
Thanks to SWG I HATE JEDI
SWG: 3 years, 3 game systems, 28 publish systems, 2 chapters, 0 smuggeling
Actually not for me I just won't play anything that SOE has to offer, I do play the ps2 games from lucas arts, and i'm looking to play some MMO that will fill the gap, I'm just burned out on SOE lies, has made me gun shy of sony online entertainment. I played swg for 2 years and would be playing now had they not brought out the NGE I could take the Combat upgrade even though it basically wreaked my play style I did adapt to the changes but the NGE really did it in for me. Mostly all my freinds left the game and besides the game changed in ways that I didn't like not to mention the ghost towns that used to have thousands of players in them.
ACE pilot: Radiant Server
Master shipwright
Master Architect
Lietza
Jumpgate
Admiral
The Lode Star
At any rate, of how SWG has been handled in the last 3 years...it didn't necessarily put me off games or mmos in general, just SOE products. It's the only sony game Ill even think of playing for the forseable future...and its only because of the community that's still left. Kinda sad in a way, but true.
At least, people tell me that SOE's quality is not exceptionally bad, by game industry standards. I'll take their word on it. But ... it's still pretty bad.
SWG has made me cautious ... I need to hear word-of-mouth that a game looks great, plays great, and is RUN great before I'll invest the money now. SWG looked great ... it occasionally played great .... but almost from day 1, it was only run in one direction ---- into the ground.
I loved classic UO and I loved classic SWG. I'll most likely love Raph's next MMO too.
Former SWG beta tester and player
I know NGE is boring but Star Wars is Star Wars.
And i can be without those friends i had there and i have there.
Nothing to compare with SWG,
The last hope is a SWG2 made by some smart ppl
DAKSHA - the Weaponsmith
proud member of KDS
SWG- DAKSHA, Quietus, Decebal, Deceneu -retired
EVE - Daksha - retired
WOW - Daksha - retired
COV - Daksha - retired
EQ2- Daksha - retired
SOR- Daksha - retired
Vanguard - Daksha - retired
LOTRO - Daksha - retired
AOC - Daksha - retired
Warhammer - Daksha - retired
Aion - Daksha -almost retired
Waiting for SWTOR
SWG was never a good game. Yes, I said never. What it was, was a game that in it's pre-CU form, carried the most promise of any mmorpg released other than possibly EVE. What I mean by that is that it carried the best hope for nonlinear progression, open content, open economy, with an excellent social atmosphere that everyone fully understood and participated.
I know that some of you might argue that once player cities, ridable mounts, and space were implemented, it fulfilled the role of "good game" as close as you could get at the time. You may be right. But I still say that when looked at objectively over it's entire timeline, SWG has never truely been able to maintain a standard that I consider a "good game." This is where SOE's flaws in development come into play. I am not going to list them all, suffice to say, from content promised at release but not delivered through the recent ranking system, they have made one mistake after another.
Anyhow, back on topic, SWG ruined nothing as far as gaming. When I played SWG, I always felt it was a game not to be taken too seriously. Therefore, as long as I was having some fun, I played. When it grew boring or annoying, I moved on.
I miss SWG because I find that just going to the cantina to socialize with the other 2 people in there nowadays is no longer fun like it used to be. I ran a tailor shop for 2 years and made lots of friends and had thousands of customers. But after the game changes it all changed. I stuck it out through the Combat Upgrade, and my buisiness still did well. The game changes did kill my Doctor, but I had my tailor still to fall back on. After the NGE changes, my customer base went from hundreds to a handfull. I went from making 2-3million a week to making 50k a week. And yes 90% of my profit was Bio Enhanced clothing, which was made useless. There is no point in staying and selling some hawtpants for 800 credits anymore to the 3 people a week that came into my shop. I loved the interaction between me and the customers. Loved helping them pick out outfits. Loved going to weddings and dressing everyone. Was exiting when I would be making a jedi some bio enhanced clothing and a Bounty Hunter would come in and attack him, in my shop! lol. I miss going to the parties, dancing in the cantina's and interacting with all the players. And the best part was If I only had 30 minutes to play, I could get things accomplished. I didnt have to play for 5 hours to get something accomplished like the other games out there, such as EQ or WOW.
Mah
Yes, SWG had its flaws, and most games do to some extent. But it was MY kind of flaws.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Yea I would still rather they had continued to devolpe the old game rather than going to the new PvP point and shoot style it is now, but I remember clearly what the old game was like. As a last comment I would say this about the old game...
Didn't like it? Wait 5 seconds and they will completely change it. There was never any consistancy in the old game.
No but it did open my eyes to seeing somthing happen that I am not sure ever has at this level.
You have a Franchise that we all loved before SOE was around, add in some coders and now you have a "SETUP" to love somthing like this.
SWG/SOE has done things that I never thought companies would do this boldly to customers, I know in our company or most that you could not shit on your customers and they would stay or come back.
I have learned that people for no matter what reason, will accept sub-par programing, sub-par customer support and allow themselves to be lied to, misslead, let down and more or less bait and switched and then just lay down and accept it.
I have learned that alot of people will trust and believe anything they are told or sold based on heresay.
I have learned that when your having the most fun in a game that it can be ripped from you in a heartbeat and to never trust a producer. Even if they bold face tell you that somthing is coming or "in the works"
I have learned that while "Paying no attention to the man behind the curtain" you can be pick pocketed your goods extremely fast all in the name of progress or using the excuse there of.
But most of all I think I have learned that even the most loved Name and Franchise that you grew up with, invested in, enjoyed , shared with your family CAN BE SEMI- RUINED by a simple exec staff making half assed choices for people based on some testing group that does not even matter. Or as they like to call it "The magical player base"..
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Thank goodness the last 9 months have just been great though....lol
I do like how a track record and common sense wins these battles though.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
The gaming industry will eventually see a renaissance of sorts. Someday.
No.
I wasn't into MMOs before SWG, probably because I'm fairly antisocial. I do enjoy having a small cadre of trusted friends with whom I can undertake missions and challenges, however, and I've learned to tolerate the mass of idiots while finding that cadre. SWG made MMOs fun. I currently alternate between CoX and WoW. I do solo alot, but once I find the right group of ppl I enjoy group activities as well. My only lament is that I haven't found a game as complex and challenging as pre-NGE SWG. Further, the NGE target market is generally that class of idiots whose company I enjoy the least. I've lost a terrific pasttime, but I'll find another eventually.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Was it perfect? No. Was the CUNGE the answer? No, the numbers do not lie...
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
In short, SOE made me a future 360 owner. (waiting for their first price drop....probably at ps3 launch)
Originally posted by Shayde
How could pre-cu not be a good game? We all obviously would love to play it again in a heartbeat. Is good rated on enjoyment factor, or how polished it was?Yes, SWG had its flaws, and most games do to some extent. But it was MY kind of flaws.
Good to me incorporates both enjoyment and polish. SWG throughout it's history has varying amounts of each, but taken in their whole, I think some of our recollections of pre-CU are a little rosey. When the game first came out, I did not like it. Not because it was too complicated for my thirty-something brain at the time, but because the nuances of the game that were broken were frustrating. I saw potential and stuck with it. In the end, I have come and gone to a game which has lived in a perpetually half-broken state. A perpetually half-broken game is not good in my opinion.
BTW, no, we would not all love to play it again in a heartbeat. Maybe if they reincorporated pre-cu combat, classes and crafting, some of the class fixes from the CU (like CH, SL revamps), reimplemented all of the expansions / upgraded content, reimplimented GCW in a meaningful manner, made smugglers smuggle, made Jedi have perma-death, dropped the efficiency of buffing and the effectiveness of armor (pre-CU), reinvented a meaningful decay and death penalty, made space combat worth something other than a pve sidegame, made entertainers more useful than BF recovery, fixed the quest, graphics, ability, etc bugs, then maybe.
Yes, SWG had its flaws, and most games do to some extent. But it was MY kind of flaws.
Good to me incorporates both enjoyment and polish. SWG throughout it's history has varying amounts of each, but taken in their whole, I think some of our recollections of pre-CU are a little rosey. When the game first came out, I did not like it. Not because it was too complicated for my thirty-something brain at the time, but because the nuances of the game that were broken were frustrating. I saw potential and stuck with it. In the end, I have come and gone to a game which has lived in a perpetually half-broken state. A perpetually half-broken game is not good in my opinion.
BTW, no, we would not all love to play it again in a heartbeat. Maybe if they reincorporated pre-cu combat, classes and crafting, some of the class fixes from the CU (like CH, SL revamps), reimplemented all of the expansions / upgraded content, reimplimented GCW in a meaningful manner, made smugglers smuggle, made Jedi have perma-death, dropped the efficiency of buffing and the effectiveness of armor (pre-CU), reinvented a meaningful decay and death penalty, made space combat worth something other than a pve sidegame, made entertainers more useful than BF recovery, fixed the quest, graphics, ability, etc bugs, then maybe.
Actually if they rolled a server back to day 7 (so we get the patches that fixed the launchday crashes), I would be there in a heartbeat, despite knowing that Commando would have a hard time getting XP for anything, as the only commando weapon working was the launcher pistol with a max damage of 20.
Yet I would be there and be a Commando, because by the end of the day, THAT game gave me satisfaction and the feeling of acomplishment.
The NGE don't give satisfaction or feeling of acomplishment. On the contrary, playing the NGE and getting something done, feels like you've just used a cheat for your singleplayer game.
As for the topic, yes.
SWG let me taste a world, a world where you could be anyone you wanted, a world where you were just a person making your way, a world where you needed other persons, a world that you can't find in MMO's or SP's now, because they ain't worlds, and they are all aimed at telling THEIR story, with you as the main uberduper whack-a-mole babestealing superhero of galaxysaving extraordinaire.
Simply put, SWG showed me what it would be to play in a world without being the superhero....And now, I know that being a superhero is not as exciting and fun as the way of life/game SWG showed me.
To me it felt more like Krystalnacht. I just stood around while the game burned down and I (the player) was blamed for it happening.
I certaintly am more cautious when looking at other games. I pay attention the track record of the game designers to see if they might pull an SOE and trash all I might work for in that game.
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Wyeth - Chilastra 8/30/03-6/1/05 Master Artisan, Master Weaponsmith, Master Shipwright (after giving up Weaponsmith), Master Merchant
Zadox - Chilastra 12/1/03-6/3/05 Master Rifleman, Master Scout, Master Ranger.
As a side note, I am curious how I ended up in perpetual italics on that last post? Is it some side effect of Firefox I have not run into before? I vaguely recall people complaining that Firefox did strange stuff on these boards.
Editing in traditional BBML got rid of it.
Originally posted by wolfmann
Actually if they rolled a server back to day 7 (so we get the patches that fixed the launchday crashes), I would be there in a heartbeat, despite knowing that Commando would have a hard time getting XP for anything, as the only commando weapon working was the launcher pistol with a max damage of 20.
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To be honest wolfmann, I loved comando in those days too, but preferred it when they finally got our flamethrowers working. I think around publish 5 we were working quite well. IIRC we were on the verge of becoming FOTM then, but still, they were good days. One thing that I kicked myself for post-NGE was that I never reground Master Commando once badges were introduced. To this day, my first mastered elite profession goes unrecognized.