Originally posted by lysanding "The web site is www.ic3.gov that is the internet crime complaint site of the FBI and they work with Interpol." anyone who actually goes there and fills this out for a video game is the biggest loser there is do you really think the FBI gives a shit about video games.
Then complain to your government for giving FBI the task of internet crime, which involves money & faulty and or imaginary products (which D&L very much is).
Yah dont complain if you bought a crappy product & lost money, I wonder on whos side you are on
Probably works for Farlan or AD, wants to throw things out there like this, to discourage people from making a complaint against the game.
Declaing you were defrauded by Farlan means you'd have to admit you actually went out and spent money on this game. I'm not sure which is a bigger crime.
Perhaps we all should just do a bit of jail time for being so stupid. Heck, it beats actually playing the game.
BTW I made that post and I do not like the way some of you have interpreted it out of context here. Note I make no excuses for AD and use the term understandable rather than justifiable. If anything my post can be read as siding with rick and being critical of AD in this instance.
Declaing you were defrauded by Farlan means you'd have to admit you actually went out and spent money on this game. I'm not sure which is a bigger crime.
Perhaps we all should just do a bit of jail time for being so stupid. Heck, it beats actually playing the game.
No shame in admitting you have been duped by Farlan. The people I can't respect are those that let Farlan bend them over on a daily basis and still smile.
Well glad to see that some feel that reporting attempted criminal fraud on the internet is a joke. It is people like you that perpetuate this type of crap and let the mournings and DnL's of the world prosper.
Stick your collective heads in the sand and hope it goes away. Someday you will wake up and realize that if you do nothing then you deserve nothing in return and that is the crap that most MMORPG companies heap on the bleeting sheep consumers.
BTW I made that post and I do not like the way some of you have interpreted it out of context here. Note I make no excuses for AD and use the term understandable rather than justifiable. If anything my post can be read as siding with rick and being critical of AD in this instance.
I honestly dont see any other way "subjected to coordinated attacks" can be interpreted or implied, or given any other rein. It was an idiotic and irresponsible statement. It was pointed out and shown here at these boards to further show the horrendous actions of a "professional" moderatoring company.
"understandable"? how? If it wasnt a "coordinated attack" then what is there to understand about the total lack of professionalism and the trigger happy gestapo actions?
Your response to the reactions here at this board doesnt make any sense either.
First, I am stating fact from observation and analysis of several sets of forums. You will be able to view such 'swarming attacks' when i release a network animation of them for all to see. Note i didnt name who was involved in the attacks i cite and I stand by that line and use of those terms.
Second, if you take my post in its entirety you will see that I point out other bad practices that extend beyond bad moderation i.e. the last paragraph of that post. So, when you critique the use of my terms 'coordinated flame swarm attack' and 'understandable' to argue that this shows a lack of professionalism on AD's behalf, I take issue with you.
Now, with regards to interpretation you initially imply that my post is pro-current-moderation-actions. You do this, first, by the title of this thread ' DNL/AD spreading the excuses' which sets up the first association between my post, me and AD. You imediatley place me into a subject position and imply that I am an associate of AD or at least a brain washed fanboy, which I am not.
You reinforce this subject position in the first line of you opening post and immediatley after quoting me, where your use of the collective pronoun 'their' bound up with the term 'AD' and the term 'coordinated' used by myself, strengthens the association between myself and AD.
Now, your paragraph after quoting me is interesting for a second reason (as are some of the replies in this thread) as, technically, you (and the others) just repeat the information and opinion I give in my post and completley fail to understand its position as critiquing the moderation at dnl.net. For example, my last paragraph where i say 'IMO what is more reprehensible' presupposes that I find the forum moderation reprehensible though, as i state, still understandable.
A second example is that you reuse the term guistapo and here, just like me, you use this term to critique AD but still postion me and my post as pro-AD and focus on but a few terms that you have not asked to be expanded upon.
I will stop here as this post is already far too long, though if you would like me to expand upon my point and why i think you ( and others) have done me a dis-service through your interpretations, please do not hesitate to ask and to take this to PMs.
First, I am stating fact from observation and analysis of several sets of forums. You will be able to view such 'swarming attacks' when i release a network animation of them for all to see. Note i didnt name who was involved in the attacks i cite and I stand by that line and use of those terms.
If you think ADs practice of removing any opposition to DnL acceptable, than mass posts about the game being so bad by a community that has every right to be pissed off is acceptable as well. And not just acceptable, justifiable.
These 'swarm attacks' are merely droves of wronged fans expressing their dissatisfaction with the way AD has handled the forums.
Yes, they are in a tough position, and since I assume Farlan is their client, can't outright say yes the game sucks. But to call every critique a flame and lock the thread is a bit much. To ban one negetive poster after a single negetive post, but allow the fanbois almost complete reign is unacceptable. With the goos comes the bad, and if AD thinks there's going to be more good than bad, they are as blind as Ztyx.
Go ahead and post your 'network animation'. All it's going to show is that there is a 1000:1 ratio of disappointed customers to people still hopeful the game might be something.
Farlan, and AD by association, deserve an infinite number of 'swarm attacks' plus 1 (which, yes, I know, is also infinite, but you get my point).
I havn't said anywhere that the removal of 'opposition to dnl' is acceptable, though i understand why it is done, hence the use of my term understandable.
I have actually put complaints forwards regarding the moderation of mine and others threads @ dnl.net and i say this here to reinforce the intended interpretation of the post that Cholayna (and others) cite and subvert.
Yes alot of the flames are wronged fans legitimatley complaining and i do not view this as a 'flame-swarm-attack'. Indeed the instances i am refering too happened many months ago before the current amplification in bad feeling that dnl.net is experiencing.
I have quite a tight definition as to what a 'flame-swarm-attack' is and will be more than happy to discuss this with you via email, once i finalise the fields in my tables/matrices and implement procedures to populate the elements.
In sum i think i have been mis-interpreted and mis-represented by some of you and would just like this to be acknowledged and clarified.
p.s.
I justed want to note that IMO much of the negativity and failings of DNL are down to the senior managment @ NP3 and Farlan rather than down to what i refered to by 'flame swarm attacks'. Indeed the former can be seen as contributing to the later. Finaly, MITSoxFan, I just wanted to say that I agree to most of your points and the opinion that you cant justify the deletion of posts by wronged players who are critical of dnl.
Originally posted by Quintilian First, I am stating fact from observation and analysis of several sets of forums. You will be able to view such 'swarming attacks' when i release a network animation of them for all to see. Note i didnt name who was involved in the attacks i cite and I stand by that line and use of those terms.
There you go again..."swarming attacks" ---- you dont possibly believe that the game is simply horrible and many many many many ppl are angry for all the lies and feel the need to post where they usually hang out the FACTS about this game? You call them "coordinated" -- pffft!!! They are most probably a bunch of ppl who felt jipped by Farlan and posted where any of the shills posted their lies and falsehoods. There is the distinct possibility that many many many players belong to SEVERAL forums. You are taking this further than it should go and stating "coordinated attacks". Total fantasy.
Second, if you take my post in its entirety you will see that I point out other bad practices that extend beyond bad moderation i.e. the last paragraph of that post. So, when you critique the use of my terms 'coordinated flame swarm attack' and 'understandable' to argue that this shows a lack of professionalism on AD's behalf, I take issue with you.
Why take an issue? I wasnt talking about anything more than the moderation of the game forums and the treatment of paying customers. Banning ppl who actually PAY for the play is truly reprehensible. Those are facts. Those are already evidenced. I took issue with your statement about "coordinated attacks" regarding the moderation. That little paragraph there is enough for me to dismiss the rest of the asinine comments.
Now, with regards to interpretation you initially imply that my post is pro-current-moderation-actions. You do this, first, by the title of this thread ' DNL/AD spreading the excuses' which sets up the first association between my post, me and AD. You imediatley place me into a subject position and imply that I am an associate of AD or at least a brain washed fanboy, which I am not.
And may I direct you to the FIRST line of my original post:
Seems the blame for the outrageous, totally unprofessional and unethical ways of the moderation team , Alchemic Dream, has allowed for the following belief in its fans:
No implication there of any employment anywhere. The "implication" is that you are a gullible fan who sees any hard ugly truth about this game as simply 'coordinated attacks". Never occuring to you that the only reason for one would be the big boys trying to ruin DNL? PFFT!!! They dont even care about DNL, never have, never will. DNL is way too small for them to even give a scratch to. So you saying "coordinated attacks" is again proven utterly ridiculous.
You reinforce this subject position in the first line of you opening post and immediatley after quoting me, where your use of the collective pronoun 'their' bound up with the term 'AD' and the term 'coordinated' used by myself, strengthens the association between myself and AD. It meant what it stated,plain and simple. Stop reading paranoid bs into it and you may just see how making this statement is completely and utterly irresponsible.
your paragraph after quoting me is interesting for a second reason (as are some of the replies in this thread) as, technically, you (and the others) just repeat the information and opinion I give in my post and completley fail to understand its position as critiquing the moderation at dnl.net. For example, my last paragraph where i say 'IMO what is more reprehensible' presupposes that I find the forum moderation reprehensible though, as i state, still understandable. Based on an erroneous thought-- again "coordinated attacks" ---- sounds more paranoid and outlandish than Men in Black. And the understanding is the "critiqueing" of the moderation -- look what it has led to -- paranoid fans. A second example is that you reuse the term guistapo and here, just like me, you use this term to critique AD but still postion me and my post as pro-AD and focus on but a few terms that you have not asked to be expanded upon. Your statement is incredibly irresponsible, displays paranoia and gullibility. "understanding" gestapo and outright horrendous unprofessionalism does not fit when the base of the matter is erroneous- again, your statement is utterly ridiculous.
stop here as this post is already far too long, though if you would like me to expand upon my point and why i think you ( and others) have done me a dis-service through your interpretations, please do not hesitate to ask and to take this to PMs.
No please, your post is long-winded and full of so much double talk its already old. You ASSume quite a bit and I can see instantly where your paranoia and gullibility can hit heights of new records sometimes. It was and remains an irresponsible, erroneous and totally ridiculous statement. Live with it.
I am not a dev, and yeah i am for real, strange though it may be!
p.s
Cholayna,
You have failed to read my reply correctly where i state that i dont consider players expressing legitmate criticism regarding a shite game as a swarm attack. I will reply later to your other comments and a number of contradictions. You have not understood my point and it will be for others to decide who is correct. I stand by my initial comment that you are mis-representing me and my post.
Originally posted by Quintilian Yes alot of the flames are wronged fans legitimatley complaining and i do not view this as a 'flame-swarm-attack'. Indeed the instances i am refering too happened many months ago before the current amplification in bad feeling that dnl.net is experiencing.
*Get over the fact that the "attack" was on your statement, not a personal attack and you may just see the light.*
Hmmm, you dont think that 18,881 for SOG who were the first wave of angry and disappointed ppl have ANYTHING at all to do with the record high of posts bad-mouthing DNL? THOUSANDS refunded. Even the FREE ACCOUNTS DROPPED OUT. Coordinated? Get a grip!!
Even some of the early BETA testers did the same. The game was sooo bad in BETA they just didnt give a rats azzz to the NDA and posted the TRUTH about the game before SOG was released.
Then we have SOG. I for one, was one of the 1,000's (note plural) that refunded at that time. Due to moderation at the board, two more of my colleagues refunded due to bs banning at that time. 1,000's...hear me? THOUSANDS refunded. C&B stated (at the beginning of the refund wagon in SOG that over 3500 had refunded out of the 8881 pioneer accounts and that was just the first couple of weeks!!!)
There is no CURRENT amplification....its been ongoing!!!! Since the release of SOG, many many have refunded, found out the truth of the lies and continue to refund. Currently even the hard core fanbois are refunding simply due to the horrendous and unplayable state of the game as well coupled with customer service. The lies about this game the developers have allowed to flourish are second-hand knowledge by now. The hard core fanbois are beginning to see the light in the entire scene of DNL. Your "coordinated attack" is a paranoid and gullible train of thought already on a track with a train wreck that was seen coming by thousands "several months ago".
**BTW - you are also now implying that the game only sux because of ppl bad-mouthing it. That the failure of DNL can be based, in part, on "coordinated" bad mouth posts. Again, utterly ridiculous. Farlan/NP3/AD are solely and utterly to blame for this miserably failed game. There is no outside destruction team or coordinated attack by any other company or group (unless you wish to call an entire guild being pissed off and posting where they hang out which could, of course, be a few forums at once. Does it strain you too much to believe that ppl can will and do hang out at a couple of forums and post the exact same thots at all of them? <shakes head> incredible.
The only coordinated attacks here have been coordinated by Farlan. Farlan has raised and armed a kiddie army to spread their lies and deception on many game forums and silence any legitimate discussion of the game. People that talk realistically about the game are insulted, called names and told to leave whatever forum they are on by Farlan's gestapo kiddie squad.
Is it not suprising that people hate DnL and want to express thioer anger, outrage and let people know the truth about Farlan. Lets look at the reasons people post negatively about DnL. DnL is simply the worst MMO ever released. It is the most unstable game ever released and has the least content and poorest design of any game we have ever seen. But being bad in itself does not generate the amount of hate people have for DnL. What has generated the hate is the deceptive practices of Farlan. Farlan overhyped this game, outright lied to people, hired and organized fanboys to lie and insult people. Because Farlan lied and overpromised people are much more upset than if it was just a bad game like Irth Online or Mourning. But more so they way farlan has treated its customer base and the way AD and Farlan run the offical forums. The mods and fanboys insult anyone there that posts the truth about the game. They lock, ban and cleanse the forums so people can't see the truth. Its not just one thing that stirs peopels passion against Farlan its the whole package. The bad game, the overhype, the blatant lies, the obnoxious troll fanboys and moderators, the forum cleansing and farlan being the most unethical development company anyone has ever seen. Look at how much passion there is over SOE's unethical practices. Farlan makes SOE look like choir boys. All this and they have the nerve to charge the most expensive price in the history of MMO's.
Again its just not one thing that makes peoiple hate and fight against Farlan. Its the whole package. They could not make a worse game, they could not have more unethical business practices, and they could not in anyway even if they tried make people hate them more. I doubt we will ever find a game compnay that is so easy to hate as Farlan. No one is coordianting efforts here except Farlan. People are simply rebelling agaionst Farlan's deceptive practices and lies. Simply make a bad game and people will move on. Continually lie to someone, attempt to steal their money and then call them names and you will obviously have some very upset people.
No I am not implying that the game sucks just because people are bad mouthing it. Though I will imply that the game sucks due to bad coding ,bad project management and poor customer relations. In fact I have always maintained this position and have referenced it already in this thread.
Considering that my previous posts @ moorpg, dnl.net and the comments i have made in irc have been critical of dnl, I dont think my actions identify me as a fan boy; though i still do play dnl i dont think it is a very good game at present.
Again you have mis-understood the terms I have used and quoted me out of context. The post you cite is actually critical of AD and the Devs and your subversion appears to reverse that fact.
So stop accusing me of beliefs I dont hold and taking my use of the term flame-swarm-attack as applicable to the complaining fans and other events that you care to introduce. I have already stated that such an interpretation would be erroneous.
Finaly, like you, I also saw this 'train wreck' coming and this is the reason why I started to play dnl and hang out with its players....my motivations stem beyond dnl as just a game.
p.s.
Zippy while i dont agree that the only coordinated attacks are by Farlan et al, I do agree they they have been guilty of instigating a few through choice words to die hard fans. I have also stated to members of AD, that I find some of the 'techniques' used in the dnl profit making venture to be ethically dubious, so again i think we agree.
Good post. Thats exactly what ive been saying in the last couple of months to all the whining fanbois, if D&L did not have a premium price tag, was not so hard to cancel/get refund, did not double/tripple charge, did not have a premium monthly charge to beta-test then all it would get is an occasional review or post for or against it. It would of been just another badly designed MMORPG. Unfortunately Farlan's business practice is so close to being fraudulent, that it draws much negative attention to it, hence all hte bad posts and hatered.
Id care less about D&L but i myself almost bought into the hype and misinformation and almost preordered it. I can imagine how much trouble I would of been in trying to cancel it and get my refund. I trully feel for all those people who had high hopes for D&L and whos hopes got shattered by Farlan-raud. Thats why I have voiced myself soundly since the release of D&L to prevent others who did not know the reality from getting trapped in the D&L illusion.
No I am not implying that the game sucks just because people are bad mouthing it. Though I will imply that the game sucks due to bad coding, project management and poor customer relations. In fact I have always maintained this position and have referenced it already in this thread.
yes you have along with the statement of the "coordinated attacks" thus rendering your double talk baseless. You made an irresponsible and well idiotic statement,now you are trying to move the thread to other than what it originally was meant for.
Spreading the belief that there were "coordinated attacks" against DNL "several months ago" is and continues to be total hogwash and quite simply paranoid bs. BS. Considering that my previous posts @ moorpg, dnl.net and the comments i have made in irc have been critical of dnl, I dont think my actions identify me as a fan boy; though i still do play dnl i dont think it is a very good game at present.
the word was 'fan" not "fanboi", there is a difference.
Again you have mis-understood the terms I have used and quoted me out of context. The post you cite is actually critical of AD and the Devs and your subversion appears to reverse that fact.
of which your back up is a "coordinated attack' which is again, totally irresponsible and utterly foolish.
So stop accusing me of beliefs I dont hold and taking my use of the term flame-swarm-attack as applicable to the complaining fans. I have already stated that such an interpretation would be erroneous.
Stop twisting what this thread and my own statements are saying. Mine do not come with a hidden agenda, nor any other implication other than what is stated. You are trying to make it sound as tho there is. Again, another paranoia delusion. I stated your "coordinated attack" is utterly ridiculous and you seem to think all the rest was included. Its not. The statement is a perfect example of what fans (those who still play and NOT fanbois , altho those COULD be included but was not stated) will stretch any sort of bad mouthing as an excuse.
Again, there was no "coordinated attack" in which to base your "understanding" of the mods totally unprofessional actions of the DNL forums. Your "understanding" is the result of a baseless and false statement of "coordinated attacks". The bad mouthing was in fact a direct result of THOUSANDS of unhappy customers. Over the course of MANY MANY MONTHS. Period.
I have also stated to members of AD, that I find some of the 'techniques' used in the dnl profit making venture to be ethically dubious, so again i think we agree.
And if you read it, Zippy was in full agreement with my own statement. Comprehension is the core issue here. You seem to be lost. Your statement was irresponsible, false and only furthering the idea that the game really doesnt suck but its only a "coordination" of a group of naysayers. Pfft! Utterly and totally ridiculous as WELL as irresponsible.
Dont start an argument when you cant even comprehend the issue at hand. Dont try to find other motives or implications in a flat out statement that the MAJORITY of ppl here can fully understand and take as it was written. Your statement is ignorant, paranoid and above all, irresponsible.
End of convo.
Considering that my previous posts @ moorpg, dnl.net and the comments i have made in irc have been critical of dnl, I dont think my actions identify me as a fan boy; though i still do play dnl i dont think it is a very good game at present.
the word was 'fan" not "fanboi", there is a difference.
Again you have mis-understood the terms I have used and quoted me out of context. The post you cite is actually critical of AD and the Devs and your subversion appears to reverse that fact.
of which your back up is a "coordinated attack' which is again, totally irresponsible and utterly foolish.
So stop accusing me of beliefs I dont hold and taking my use of the term flame-swarm-attack as applicable to the complaining fans. I have already stated that such an interpretation would be erroneous.
Stop twisting what this thread and my own statements are saying. Mine do not come with a hidden agenda, nor any other implication other than what is stated. You are trying to make it sound as tho there is. Again, another paranoia delusion. I stated your "coordinated attack" is utterly ridiculous and you seem to think all the rest was included. Its not. The statement is a perfect example of what fans (those who still play and NOT fanbois , altho those COULD be included but was not stated) will stretch any sort of bad mouthing as an excuse.
Again, there was no "coordinated attack" in which to base your "understanding" of the mods totally unprofessional actions of the DNL forums. Your "understanding" is the result of a baseless and false statement of "coordinated attacks". The bad mouthing was in fact a direct result of THOUSANDS of unhappy customers. Over the course of MANY MANY MONTHS. Period.
I have also stated to members of AD, that I find some of the 'techniques' used in the dnl profit making venture to be ethically dubious, so again i think we agree.
And if you read it, Zippy was in full agreement with my own statement. Comprehension is the core issue here. You seem to be lost. Your statement was irresponsible, false and only furthering the idea that the game really doesnt suck but its only a "coordination" of a group of naysayers. Pfft! Utterly and totally ridiculous as WELL as irresponsible.
Dont start an argument when you cant even comprehend the issue at hand. Dont try to find other motives or implications in a flat out statement that the MAJORITY of ppl here can fully understand and take as it was written. Your statement is ignorant, paranoid and above all, irresponsible.
Originally posted by Quintilian Zippy while i dont agree that the only coordinated attacks are by Farlan et al, I do agree they they have been guilty of instigating a few through choice words to die hard fans. I have also stated to members of AD, that I find some of the 'techniques' used in the dnl profit making venture to be ethically dubious, so again i think we agree.
I think you may simply be misinterperting a mass disgruntled fan base with a coordinated attack.
I can't imagine that a group of users would all get together and coordinate posting on specific threads.
But, you say you have proof, so I'll trust that you have some.
Originally posted by MITSoxFan I think you may simply be misinterperting a mass disgruntled fan base with a coordinated attack.
I can't imagine that a group of users would all get together and coordinate posting on specific threads.
But, you say you have proof, so I'll trust that you have some.
What will it show? And how do we know his/her information is indeed what is truly out there? A simple change of dates, a simple addition of a few more......the entire idea is ridiculous. Nobody and I mean nobody was so afraid of this game blowing the doors off all the others that such a thing was done. Angry, frustrated and experienced gameplayers in BETA shouted out, SOG refundees shouted out, DNL refundees shouted out. Any so called "network animations" is totally ridiculous. What the hell does that mean anyway? Network animations? Gimme a break already.
I ask you to take this to PMs with me and take a while to explain why you think I am wrong. You have not even asked what I mean by flame swarm atatck and you have just made up your own interpretation, so I ask you to think about this before dropping me a PM, as well as to read through my original post, your citation and use of it to argue a point regarding forum modoration.
Please note that the flame-swarm-attack i am citing relates in no way to the other attacks that AD and Farlan have hinted had occurred (or made up). Indeed, the particular instance I was refering to is most probably unknown to AD at this time.
If you want to keep twisting my words here in this thread, then I will ask for an mmorpg.com moderator to arbitrate our disagreement.
MITSoxFan,
Yes I do have some evidence and I download and archive forums and then use some pearl scripts and text analysis software to convert this data into sets of tables/matrices, from which I can use furter software to graph and animate networks...indeed this is what I am studying at university for my research degree.
Originally posted by Cholayna Originally posted by MITSoxFan I think you may simply be misinterperting a mass disgruntled fan base with a coordinated attack.
I can't imagine that a group of users would all get together and coordinate posting on specific threads.
But, you say you have proof, so I'll trust that you have some.
What will it show? And how do we know his/her information is indeed what is truly out there? A simple change of dates, a simple addition of a few more......the entire idea is ridiculous. Nobody and I mean nobody was so afraid of this game blowing the doors off all the others that such a thing was done. Angry, frustrated and experienced gameplayers in BETA shouted out, SOG refundees shouted out, DNL refundees shouted out. Any so called "network animations" is totally ridiculous. What the hell does that mean anyway? Network animations? Gimme a break already.
*shrug* Cho, if he's implying that people purposefully 'flame-swarm-attacked' the game so that it wouldn't be popular, you're right, that's just crazy. Nobody but Farlan is responsible for the crap they created. Not to mention that everyone here busting on the game, at one point (maybe even DURING SoG) had high hopes for this turd.
So, I guess I'm confused, what exactly is a 'flame-swarm-attack'? And by who was this attack coordinated?
If the only evidence is a bunch of posts, sorry, that's not even close to proof. But, benefit of the doubt Quint, time to show your hand...
I ask you to take this to PMs with me and take a while to explain why you think I am wrong. You have not even asked what I mean by flame swarm atatck and you have just made up your own interpretation, so I ask you to think about this before dropping me a PM, as well as to read through my original post, your citation and use of it to argue a point regarding forum modoration.
Please note that the flame-swarm-attack i am citing relates in no way to the other attacks that AD and Farlan have hinted had occurred. Indeed, the particular instance I was refering to is most probably unknown to AD at this time.
If you want to keep twisting my words here in this thread, then I will ask for an mmorpg.com moderator to arbitrate our disagreement.
I havent twisted a thing, I have no intention of taking anything to PM with you as this is the purpose of this thread. Statements such as yours is an example of the false, misleading and woefully irresponsible statements made at DNL forums. That was the purpose and that is what is clearly shown in your responses as to the reason for the statement.
The fact that you note that it is not related to the other "attacks" that AD and Farlan have "hinted" at (pfft! read the thread where Vuuar tells ppl to "counter the attack" -- thats not a hint dearie) is indeed a point in this thread that I was attempting to get at. A general view of many who still play the game, the fans and the fanbois allike, that any mass posting at mass forums by angry frustrated and experienced gameplayers is really an "coordinated attack" instead of simply a MASS of angry frustrated and disillusioned ex-players and ex-testers posting in a MASS of different forums simply because they happen to post there or the BS is thick enough there that the truth should be known. Period.
Asking for this thread to be closed is an exact example of what this thread is all about. The censorship does not reign here like it does in DNL. Discussions are allowed, whether good or bad. You want to report this as a bad thread? Hardly. It wasnt a personal attack. Your statement was attacked. Period.
Yep, as I said I am finalising this argument and the the data fields, and will pass on a copy of the paper and a file containg the animation.
Again, my initial complaint was that my words are associated with the words of ADs and that I am positioned as very proAD and very proFAN possibly fanboy, as well as my words being used as putting forwards an excuse for poor moderation and customer relations. I think it is appaling what has happened to Rick.
MITSoxFan, surley you can see that as a legitimate reason for my complaint and that such a complaint stands?
Chloyana, in your thread you say that my observation of a flame swarm attack is being used by AD to justify the bad moderation FFS! This is just not true!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually critique the moderation and just point out how one can understand it and their choices!!!!!!!!
Comments
Yah dont complain if you bought a crappy product & lost money, I wonder on whos side you are on
Probably works for Farlan or AD, wants to throw things out there like this, to discourage people from making a complaint against the game.
It's a catch 22.
Declaing you were defrauded by Farlan means you'd have to admit you actually went out and spent money on this game. I'm not sure which is a bigger crime.
Perhaps we all should just do a bit of jail time for being so stupid. Heck, it beats actually playing the game.
Cholayna,
BTW I made that post and I do not like the way some of you have interpreted it out of context here. Note I make no excuses for AD and use the term understandable rather than justifiable. If anything my post can be read as siding with rick and being critical of AD in this instance.
Well glad to see that some feel that reporting attempted criminal fraud on the internet is a joke. It is people like you that perpetuate this type of crap and let the mournings and DnL's of the world prosper.
Stick your collective heads in the sand and hope it goes away. Someday you will wake up and realize that if you do nothing then you deserve nothing in return and that is the crap that most MMORPG companies heap on the bleeting sheep consumers.
I honestly dont see any other way "subjected to coordinated attacks" can be interpreted or implied, or given any other rein. It was an idiotic and irresponsible statement. It was pointed out and shown here at these boards to further show the horrendous actions of a "professional" moderatoring company.
"understandable"? how? If it wasnt a "coordinated attack" then what is there to understand about the total lack of professionalism and the trigger happy gestapo actions?
Your response to the reactions here at this board doesnt make any sense either.
First, I am stating fact from observation and analysis of several sets of forums. You will be able to view such 'swarming attacks' when i release a network animation of them for all to see. Note i didnt name who was involved in the attacks i cite and I stand by that line and use of those terms.
Second, if you take my post in its entirety you will see that I point out other bad practices that extend beyond bad moderation i.e. the last paragraph of that post. So, when you critique the use of my terms 'coordinated flame swarm attack' and 'understandable' to argue that this shows a lack of professionalism on AD's behalf, I take issue with you.
Now, with regards to interpretation you initially imply that my post is pro-current-moderation-actions. You do this, first, by the title of this thread ' DNL/AD spreading the excuses' which sets up the first association between my post, me and AD. You imediatley place me into a subject position and imply that I am an associate of AD or at least a brain washed fanboy, which I am not.
You reinforce this subject position in the first line of you opening post and immediatley after quoting me, where your use of the collective pronoun 'their' bound up with the term 'AD' and the term 'coordinated' used by myself, strengthens the association between myself and AD.
Now, your paragraph after quoting me is interesting for a second reason (as are some of the replies in this thread) as, technically, you (and the others) just repeat the information and opinion I give in my post and completley fail to understand its position as critiquing the moderation at dnl.net. For example, my last paragraph where i say 'IMO what is more reprehensible' presupposes that I find the forum moderation reprehensible though, as i state, still understandable.
A second example is that you reuse the term guistapo and here, just like me, you use this term to critique AD but still postion me and my post as pro-AD and focus on but a few terms that you have not asked to be expanded upon.
I will stop here as this post is already far too long, though if you would like me to expand upon my point and why i think you ( and others) have done me a dis-service through your interpretations, please do not hesitate to ask and to take this to PMs.
These 'swarm attacks' are merely droves of wronged fans expressing their dissatisfaction with the way AD has handled the forums.
Yes, they are in a tough position, and since I assume Farlan is their client, can't outright say yes the game sucks. But to call every critique a flame and lock the thread is a bit much. To ban one negetive poster after a single negetive post, but allow the fanbois almost complete reign is unacceptable. With the goos comes the bad, and if AD thinks there's going to be more good than bad, they are as blind as Ztyx.
Go ahead and post your 'network animation'. All it's going to show is that there is a 1000:1 ratio of disappointed customers to people still hopeful the game might be something.
Farlan, and AD by association, deserve an infinite number of 'swarm attacks' plus 1 (which, yes, I know, is also infinite, but you get my point).
MITSoxFan
I havn't said anywhere that the removal of 'opposition to dnl' is acceptable, though i understand why it is done, hence the use of my term understandable.
I have actually put complaints forwards regarding the moderation of mine and others threads @ dnl.net and i say this here to reinforce the intended interpretation of the post that Cholayna (and others) cite and subvert.
Yes alot of the flames are wronged fans legitimatley complaining and i do not view this as a 'flame-swarm-attack'. Indeed the instances i am refering too happened many months ago before the current amplification in bad feeling that dnl.net is experiencing.
I have quite a tight definition as to what a 'flame-swarm-attack' is and will be more than happy to discuss this with you via email, once i finalise the fields in my tables/matrices and implement procedures to populate the elements.
In sum i think i have been mis-interpreted and mis-represented by some of you and would just like this to be acknowledged and clarified.
p.s.
I justed want to note that IMO much of the negativity and failings of DNL are down to the senior managment @ NP3 and Farlan rather than down to what i refered to by 'flame swarm attacks'. Indeed the former can be seen as contributing to the later. Finaly, MITSoxFan, I just wanted to say that I agree to most of your points and the opinion that you cant justify the deletion of posts by wronged players who are critical of dnl.
This guy for real? Maybe he should spend more time fixing the game then making graphic attack vectors.
lol
What?
I am not a dev, and yeah i am for real, strange though it may be!
p.s
Cholayna,
You have failed to read my reply correctly where i state that i dont consider players expressing legitmate criticism regarding a shite game as a swarm attack. I will reply later to your other comments and a number of contradictions. You have not understood my point and it will be for others to decide who is correct. I stand by my initial comment that you are mis-representing me and my post.
Hmmm, you dont think that 18,881 for SOG who were the first wave of angry and disappointed ppl have ANYTHING at all to do with the record high of posts bad-mouthing DNL? THOUSANDS refunded. Even the FREE ACCOUNTS DROPPED OUT. Coordinated? Get a grip!!
Even some of the early BETA testers did the same. The game was sooo bad in BETA they just didnt give a rats azzz to the NDA and posted the TRUTH about the game before SOG was released.
Then we have SOG. I for one, was one of the 1,000's (note plural) that refunded at that time. Due to moderation at the board, two more of my colleagues refunded due to bs banning at that time. 1,000's...hear me? THOUSANDS refunded. C&B stated (at the beginning of the refund wagon in SOG that over 3500 had refunded out of the 8881 pioneer accounts and that was just the first couple of weeks!!!)
There is no CURRENT amplification....its been ongoing!!!! Since the release of SOG, many many have refunded, found out the truth of the lies and continue to refund. Currently even the hard core fanbois are refunding simply due to the horrendous and unplayable state of the game as well coupled with customer service. The lies about this game the developers have allowed to flourish are second-hand knowledge by now. The hard core fanbois are beginning to see the light in the entire scene of DNL. Your "coordinated attack" is a paranoid and gullible train of thought already on a track with a train wreck that was seen coming by thousands "several months ago".
**BTW - you are also now implying that the game only sux because of ppl bad-mouthing it. That the failure of DNL can be based, in part, on "coordinated" bad mouth posts. Again, utterly ridiculous. Farlan/NP3/AD are solely and utterly to blame for this miserably failed game. There is no outside destruction team or coordinated attack by any other company or group (unless you wish to call an entire guild being pissed off and posting where they hang out which could, of course, be a few forums at once. Does it strain you too much to believe that ppl can will and do hang out at a couple of forums and post the exact same thots at all of them? <shakes head> incredible.
The only coordinated attacks here have been coordinated by Farlan. Farlan has raised and armed a kiddie army to spread their lies and deception on many game forums and silence any legitimate discussion of the game. People that talk realistically about the game are insulted, called names and told to leave whatever forum they are on by Farlan's gestapo kiddie squad.
Is it not suprising that people hate DnL and want to express thioer anger, outrage and let people know the truth about Farlan. Lets look at the reasons people post negatively about DnL. DnL is simply the worst MMO ever released. It is the most unstable game ever released and has the least content and poorest design of any game we have ever seen. But being bad in itself does not generate the amount of hate people have for DnL. What has generated the hate is the deceptive practices of Farlan. Farlan overhyped this game, outright lied to people, hired and organized fanboys to lie and insult people. Because Farlan lied and overpromised people are much more upset than if it was just a bad game like Irth Online or Mourning. But more so they way farlan has treated its customer base and the way AD and Farlan run the offical forums. The mods and fanboys insult anyone there that posts the truth about the game. They lock, ban and cleanse the forums so people can't see the truth. Its not just one thing that stirs peopels passion against Farlan its the whole package. The bad game, the overhype, the blatant lies, the obnoxious troll fanboys and moderators, the forum cleansing and farlan being the most unethical development company anyone has ever seen. Look at how much passion there is over SOE's unethical practices. Farlan makes SOE look like choir boys. All this and they have the nerve to charge the most expensive price in the history of MMO's.
Again its just not one thing that makes peoiple hate and fight against Farlan. Its the whole package. They could not make a worse game, they could not have more unethical business practices, and they could not in anyway even if they tried make people hate them more. I doubt we will ever find a game compnay that is so easy to hate as Farlan. No one is coordianting efforts here except Farlan. People are simply rebelling agaionst Farlan's deceptive practices and lies. Simply make a bad game and people will move on. Continually lie to someone, attempt to steal their money and then call them names and you will obviously have some very upset people.
Cholayna
No I am not implying that the game sucks just because people are bad mouthing it. Though I will imply that the game sucks due to bad coding ,bad project management and poor customer relations. In fact I have always maintained this position and have referenced it already in this thread.
Considering that my previous posts @ moorpg, dnl.net and the comments i have made in irc have been critical of dnl, I dont think my actions identify me as a fan boy; though i still do play dnl i dont think it is a very good game at present.
Again you have mis-understood the terms I have used and quoted me out of context. The post you cite is actually critical of AD and the Devs and your subversion appears to reverse that fact.
So stop accusing me of beliefs I dont hold and taking my use of the term flame-swarm-attack as applicable to the complaining fans and other events that you care to introduce. I have already stated that such an interpretation would be erroneous.
Finaly, like you, I also saw this 'train wreck' coming and this is the reason why I started to play dnl and hang out with its players....my motivations stem beyond dnl as just a game.
p.s.
Zippy while i dont agree that the only coordinated attacks are by Farlan et al, I do agree they they have been guilty of instigating a few through choice words to die hard fans. I have also stated to members of AD, that I find some of the 'techniques' used in the dnl profit making venture to be ethically dubious, so again i think we agree.
Thats exactly what ive been saying in the last couple of months to all the whining fanbois, if D&L did not have a premium price tag, was not so hard to cancel/get refund, did not double/tripple charge, did not have a premium monthly charge to beta-test then all it would get is an occasional review or post for or against it. It would of been just another badly designed MMORPG. Unfortunately Farlan's business practice is so close to being fraudulent, that it draws much negative attention to it, hence all hte bad posts and hatered.
Id care less about D&L but i myself almost bought into the hype and misinformation and almost preordered it. I can imagine how much trouble I would of been in trying to cancel it and get my refund. I trully feel for all those people who had high hopes for D&L and whos hopes got shattered by Farlan-raud. Thats why I have voiced myself soundly since the release of D&L to prevent others who did not know the reality from getting trapped in the D&L illusion.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Double post.
I can't imagine that a group of users would all get together and coordinate posting on specific threads.
But, you say you have proof, so I'll trust that you have some.
Cholayna,
I ask you to take this to PMs with me and take a while to explain why you think I am wrong. You have not even asked what I mean by flame swarm atatck and you have just made up your own interpretation, so I ask you to think about this before dropping me a PM, as well as to read through my original post, your citation and use of it to argue a point regarding forum modoration.
Please note that the flame-swarm-attack i am citing relates in no way to the other attacks that AD and Farlan have hinted had occurred (or made up). Indeed, the particular instance I was refering to is most probably unknown to AD at this time.
If you want to keep twisting my words here in this thread, then I will ask for an mmorpg.com moderator to arbitrate our disagreement.
MITSoxFan,
Yes I do have some evidence and I download and archive forums and then use some pearl scripts and text analysis software to convert this data into sets of tables/matrices, from which I can use furter software to graph and animate networks...indeed this is what I am studying at university for my research degree.
*shrug* Cho, if he's implying that people purposefully 'flame-swarm-attacked' the game so that it wouldn't be popular, you're right, that's just crazy. Nobody but Farlan is responsible for the crap they created. Not to mention that everyone here busting on the game, at one point (maybe even DURING SoG) had high hopes for this turd.
So, I guess I'm confused, what exactly is a 'flame-swarm-attack'? And by who was this attack coordinated?
If the only evidence is a bunch of posts, sorry, that's not even close to proof. But, benefit of the doubt Quint, time to show your hand...
I havent twisted a thing, I have no intention of taking anything to PM with you as this is the purpose of this thread. Statements such as yours is an example of the false, misleading and woefully irresponsible statements made at DNL forums. That was the purpose and that is what is clearly shown in your responses as to the reason for the statement.
The fact that you note that it is not related to the other "attacks" that AD and Farlan have "hinted" at (pfft! read the thread where Vuuar tells ppl to "counter the attack" -- thats not a hint dearie) is indeed a point in this thread that I was attempting to get at. A general view of many who still play the game, the fans and the fanbois allike, that any mass posting at mass forums by angry frustrated and experienced gameplayers is really an "coordinated attack" instead of simply a MASS of angry frustrated and disillusioned ex-players and ex-testers posting in a MASS of different forums simply because they happen to post there or the BS is thick enough there that the truth should be known. Period.
Asking for this thread to be closed is an exact example of what this thread is all about. The censorship does not reign here like it does in DNL. Discussions are allowed, whether good or bad. You want to report this as a bad thread? Hardly. It wasnt a personal attack. Your statement was attacked. Period.
Yep, as I said I am finalising this argument and the the data fields, and will pass on a copy of the paper and a file containg the animation.
Again, my initial complaint was that my words are associated with the words of ADs and that I am positioned as very proAD and very proFAN possibly fanboy, as well as my words being used as putting forwards an excuse for poor moderation and customer relations. I think it is appaling what has happened to Rick.
MITSoxFan, surley you can see that as a legitimate reason for my complaint and that such a complaint stands?
Chloyana, in your thread you say that my observation of a flame swarm attack is being used by AD to justify the bad moderation FFS! This is just not true!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually critique the moderation and just point out how one can understand it and their choices!!!!!!!!