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Guilty Pleasures-Confessions of a graphics junkie
Ramonski7
Member UncommonPosts: 2,662
I see it all the time:
'Gameplay over graphics'
'Graphics aren't everything'
'I can live without pretty graphics'
'To me graphics aren't important'
YADA YADA YADA on and on and on. Man I use to be the same way. Swearing that graphics played second fiddle when purchasing a new game. I told my friends regularly: "Pffft! Yeah it looks pretty, but how does it play?" But then as I moved away from the realm of console games over to the PC powerhouses and MMORPGs in general, I knew that graphics no longer fed on pond scum....
Back in the 1990s not too many players were in the position of owning more than one gaming system. You either owned a PC, SNES, Genesis or a Turbo. Thus born the reason of using the phrase "Gameplay over Graphics". It was a vicious war among neighborhood kids: PC kids taunted about having the best graphics, console kids gloated about ease of use and gameplay. I myself owned many systems, but never a PC. I too was blinded by my own stubbornness. Knowing that I could not afford a high-end PC to match my thirst for responsiveness and stability, I stuck my guns.
As consoles-users stood, we knew the realm of superior graphics belonged to the PC kids. So we started squabbling among ourselves in a desperate attempt to crown one console as having the best graphics. Magazines wrote articles on this, kids talked about it everywhere. And usually the kid with the inferior machine used the statement: "Well my system has better games!(or more)"
As time moved on I grew and so did my bank account. Game systems evovled, blurring the line between graphical differences even further even catching up to the PC powerhouses. I now own multiple systems from each of the 3 major: Nintendo(Gamecude), Sony(PS2) and Microsoft(X-Box). And I also have a decent PC(2.4Ghz P4). And now when they come out with a new game that will be released for all 3 systems I pretty much choose the X-Box. Why? Because the games look better of course.
Now everyone knows that our sense of sight determines 90% of how we react to things. You only get one chance to make that first impression. So why would games be any different? If we looked at screenshots of a game with sub-par graphics and one with above-average graphics, who are we kidding? We would be more inclined to inquire about the game with better graphics FIRST and if the gameplay doesn't suit our needs THEN head over to the one that has sub-par graphics.
For people to deny this is perplexing. On one hand they believe gameplay far outweighs the need for graphics, yet the graphics in a given game have to meet CERTAIN level of quality. You can have the sweetest gameplay in the world but if it doesn't have decent graphics, you can forget it. Period. People love books, but movies are so much more exciting to enjoy.
Now like I said before I started realizing that graphics plays a major role in helping me buy a new game, I thought gameplay was the number one factor in making that decision. Now I see it's more of a happy marriage between the two. Because no matter what way you slice it you can't have one WITHOUT the other. And graphics are a major influence in anyone's decision to buy a game, whether they believe it or not.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Comments
"I started realizing that graphics plays a major role in helping me buy..."
...and it is true, however graphics don't keep customers. Usually it's a combination of game play and the new people you meet in those games which ends up hooking you for years.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
graphics bring the people in, gameplay keeps them there... oh and having a big name behind you also helps bring people in *cough*Warcraft*cough*
one cant exist without the other...
without the graphics you wont get enough people in the game in the 1st place (since graphics ARE the 1st thing you notice about the game)...
without gameplay all the people are going to be leaving within a few months anyways... you always need somehting fun for the people to be doing
[EDIT] also like you said... good graphics in a game means theres at least some quality there... companies dont spend piles of money making uber nice graphics for a game if they know it sucks...
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Both you guys speak the truth
If one is to be truely happy, the gameplay must be as strong as the graphical presentation. And sad but true the name thing counts alot for some poeple. I on the other hand am completely bias as long as the graphics are top notch and the gameplay is solid!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Sorry double post...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Awesome Graphics + Awful Gameplay = Eye Candy
Awesome Graphics + Mediocre Gameplay = Decent Game
Awesome Graphics + Awesome Gameplay = Game of the Year
Mediocre Graphics + Awful Gamplay = Trash
Mediocre Graphics + Mediocre Gameplay = Decent Game
Mediocre Graphics + Awesome Gameplay = Great Game
Awful Graphics + Awful Gamemplay = Trash
Awful Graphics + Mediocre Gameplay = Trash
Awful Graphics + Great Gameplay = Mediocre Game
That's my chart of importance of gameplay to graphics. Graphics matter...but gameplay is king.
For me its Gameplay like the above poster said gameplay is king.. it can be all flashy like SWG or AC2 FFXI but it wont hold me more then 1 month. Games like Ultima online which have poor graphics or even Everquest could be rated as poor graphics yet i enjoyed those games as much as any.
Would be nice to see a game with both combined, for me console games stink graphics are usually good, but i only enjoy multiplayer online games, i own all the consoles yet own 0 games for them i just cant play them by myself.
Maby the new upcomming games will have a combination of both, bt really id rather the game spend more time on the gameplay then trying to sell the graphics for the game. which seems like most all games do. try to sell them based on there graphics.
You can't blame them for doing that (I certainly don't). Graphics can be shown in screenshots and nifty eye-candy movies to excite people. Gameplay is something that you can only understand by playing or reading a trusted review.
Awesome Gameplay+Awesome Graphics= Game of the Year
(+)
Awesome Gameplay+Mediocre Graphics= Great Game
(+)
Awesome Gameplay+Awful Graphics= Mediocre Game
(+)<-----I say trash (-)
Mediocre Gameplay+Awesome Graphics= Decent Game
(+)<--I say great game
Mediocre Gameplay+Mediocre Graphics= Decent Game
(+)
Mediocre Gameplay+Awful Graphics= Trash
(-)
Awful Gamemplay+Awesome Graphics= Eye Candy
(-)
Awful Gamemplay+Mediocre Graphics= Trash
(-)
Awful Gamemplay+Awful Graphics= Trash
(-)
Graphics with positive outcomes:
first set: 2
second set: 2
third set: 1 (0)<--with my opinion on that 3rd choice
Gameplay with positive outcomes
first set: 3 (2)<--with my opinion on that 3rd choice
second set: 2
third set: 0
I think you have your numbers twisted
, or maybe you're using that new math.....
Clearly YOUR chart shows that both graphics and gameplay are an EQUAL factor when buying you yer games....LOL
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Ramonski7, I didn't apply math nor did I say Gameplay far outweighs Graphics. I put that data there to show that Graphics is important. You fail to see the way the curve works...if the gameplay is poor, the game is trashed. Review it again, it's not simply a +/- situation.
In the end, Gameplay is what keeps me in a game. I still play Half-Life TFC, even though the graphics are terrible compared to modern engines. It's the gameplay I love.
Here's a good example of the inverse: Black and White (when released). Some of the most awesome graphics you could see in a game, gameplay was mediocre at best. Panned by most gamers. You tell me how that rates in your book?
Heh hey Ianubisi I never disagreed with anything you posted (check my original post) I just feel like people are fooling themselves when they believe graphics don't play a major role when deciding what to purchase. Black and White looks awesome I agree, but it's not out yet is it? Not really fair to pass judgement yet but I'll humor you anyway.....
Thank you for pointing out the hype that it has recieved. Problaby because of those pretty graphics. So now it comes under the scrutiny of thousands of people and a question of it's gameplay comes to surface (ironic since I mention they both go hand and hand). But what lead people to flock to it in the first place? It's rep? No. It's gameplay? No. Why of course it's graphics. I never said people had to actually BUY the game, just that graphics cause people to consider buying it. I just thought maybe I should clear that up.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
So according to you all Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger by todays standards are considered Mediocre because they are 2D SNES titles... I find that to be false. I think even to this day that NO RPG compares to either of these... I find these two to be the best RPGs ever made.
Honestly, For me Graphics mean jack crap. I still have System Shock 1 & 2 installed and find them more enjoyable then Halo, Deus Ex 2 and any other recently released title...
Black and White is a single-player game by Peter Molyneaux that was supposed to be revolutionary in its AI (and largely was extremely innovative). Extremely good graphics, poor gameplay (maybe mediocre if you are being kind). Please review at: http://www2.bwgame.com/
Now we're in agreement.
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The anticipation of death is far worse than death itself...
[img]http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/images/banner.gif[img]
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If you wait to do something until the last minute, your more efficient since it will only take 1 minute.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I honestly purchased them because they both were made by Square... I have purchased every title they have ever made... except for FFXI...
My info came for how you did your little comparison chart... and im comparing those games to todays titles. Are these games nolonger good since the graphics cant be compared to todays games? Do they lose thier legendary status because "thier graphics suck!"...
I purchase games on features, story, gameplay and company background... actually the developer is usually high on the list...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I know we mmorpgers usually say graphics is not important in a mmorpg which is true.
But like anything in life there should be some standards.Making a game with UO graphics is not on for one.2D is a total no no.And click and move which to my shock some games are still making now is totally out.
I'd just like to say that I am in the "Gameplay First" crowd, and I was not a console gamer. In fact, before we bought our PS2 (aka "The DVD Player") last year, the last console games I had played were on our Atari 2600 when I was a kid. And, believe me, the graphics on my TI 99-4/A were only marginally better. The first PC game I ever played compulsively was a little thing called Shogun that I played on an 8088 in lovely amber monochrome.
With that said, I don't think there was ever anyone in the "Gameplay over graphics" crowd who ever said that graphics don't matter at all, and noone denied that graphics sell games the way that sex sells soap.
I like pretty graphics, for sure, and I am turned off by really bad graphics sometimes, but no matter how a game looks, if it is boring, confusing, or pointless, there's no playing it. You're right-- if I am actually going to *pay* for a game that I may have only read reviews of, I won't buy one that looks like crap, as far as I can tell from screenshots on the box. But I am more than happy to give games a try, even with extremely dated graphics, if I have heard good things about the game itself from people I know who enjoy the same kind of games I do. I am more often disappointed by pretty screenshots and magazine/online reviews than good word-of-mouth and less than shining graphics.
And, of course, I'll try any game you want for free.
[EDIT: Grammar fix.]
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neschria, Bludgeoner of Bunnies
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
"the way that sex sells soap"
I know this has nothing to do with this category but...LOL. I think sex pretty much sells everything in the media...I once saw a commercial in which sex was trying to sell an Uncle Ben's rice product er some such thing. Other times I've turned on my tv and right away I hear the word "sex!" Come on...It's getting a little annoying...not to mention other occurences of the same thing when im flipping through channels and those half-naked women they're starting to put up on public television... I'm not a member of the "gay community"
, but this is really getting a little out of hand.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I am still using a GeForce 2, so whatever kind of graphics I get out of it are about as good as it is going to get for me for a while. I need RAM before I bother getting a new graphics card... which I also desperately want. But now I am going off on a tangent.
What I REALLY wanted to say is that people sure do notice when those things you mention are amiss. They may not think graphics, but they ask themselves things like, "why do all spells look exactly the same?" and "why can I see through my characters armor at certain spots?" and "why does my bard keep stabbing herself in the head?" And even people who say graphics don't matter sit up and say "wow" when there come across something exceptionally good in graphics design/execution. You'd have to not have eyes to fail to notice the really flashy stuff. (I am a sucker for pretty spell effects, myself.) If you pay attention, you might start to appreciate other stuff too-- the way the pieces of a model are put together well, the detail of textures, or particularly natural-looking animations, for example.
But graphics still fall pretty far down on my list. Hmmm... I wonder if there's some correlation here between the type of games a person plays and the kind of graphics they are looking for. I have to admit, when I am not playing a roleplaying game (MMO or otherwise), I mostly play simulation and puzzle games, neither of which are necessarily very reliant on graphics.
~*~
neschria
Bludgeoner of Bunnies
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.