Originally posted by Bissrok If they did that, I'd laugh for days. Everyone leaves, begging for Pre-CU servers, and they finally, after all this time, set aside their pride and rollback halfway? That'd be f***ing hilarious.
But, no. I wouldn't resub. I left because of the CU.
lmao qfe
The cu is the reason i left, too. I cant exprese in mere words how much i hated it, noises are better. The ONLY way i'd resub to SWG is if they opened pre-cu galaxies with the intent of implementing the ORIGINAL cu. No Rollbacks, fresh servers.
Oh yeah, and a new dev team.
So like, basically when hell freezes over, i'll resub to swg.
AH FOR GOD SAKE, in pre cu there was a fucking combat lvl also it just didnt show it , you still needed for example 4000 to use the gun for that lvl on marksman. ( dunno what gun but you got a cetetfication)
I mean the combat lvl just shows, it dosent make a real diffrent. Its just nubmers, you are all so hanged up by "there no lvl in swg, just skills"
its in cu to, just that it "shows"
bah.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
Originally posted by Trubaduren AH FOR GOD SAKE, in pre cu there was a fucking combat lvl also it just didnt show it , you still needed for example 4000 to use the gun for that lvl on marksman. ( dunno what gun but you got a cetetfication)
I mean the combat lvl just shows, it dosent make a real diffrent. Its just nubmers, you are all so hanged up by "there no lvl in swg, just skills"
its in cu to, just that it "shows"
bah.
This has already been argued and your side lost. :P They told us pre-cu had combat levels so we'd shut up whining about the CU.
Originally posted by Elnator Yes Matter of fact I'd go back to the CU even if it was accompanied by a full char wipe.
A lot of people tout Pre-CU as 'the best' but, personally, I preferred post-CU. Sure some things got a little wonky with the CU (Combat Levels being displayed and modifying dmg, etc) but a LOT of huge issues with pre-CU got fixed by the CU as well. Overall I much preferred post-CU SWG.
Post CU combat. Me unarmored spamming 1 attack on my target. CU combat was a joke. You spammed your best special and healed on occassion while Kiting. Whooo. Not at all fun imho. I literally played unarmored and never once needed it in pve.
It's sort of important to note that Combat Levels were always there. Even in Pre-CU. They just didn't really do anything. With CU they gave combat level a small modifier to damage and ability to hit/be hit based on how much higher or lower your combat level was than the ***NPC*** oponents. Combat Level was not counted in PVP combat.... At All.
As long as you where grouped with a maxed level player. You also couldn't use a descent weapon or a special that could deal any damage to anyone. You also probably couldn't hit them either due to modifiers, but ya ok level didnt matter in pvp.
I also didn't like that they took away battle fatigue DURING CU (it wasn't touched at first.) I'd pretty much like to see CU come back but lengthen the doc buffs back to their old durations, but keep them at the reduced levels they were given with CU. So a doc could buff in town still if they so chose but they weren't as absolutely mandatory as they were before. And not modify battle fatigue, etc. CU was very very good stuff once you got used to it. A lot of folks never really gave it a chance, which is what inspired the idiots at SOE and LEC to go ahead with the NGE.
It was never given a chance because simple requests like testing and debugging didn't occur. When you did attempt to play it the game amounted to spamming 1 special repeatedly. Melee was screwed up total. Grinding got even worse with spin groups. You couldn't tell what actions where executing at times. You had a hard time with the new UI. The snappy movement everyone hated was put back in. It was buggy. Crafters got hosed. Cities got vaporized. Jedi got nerfed to the point of humorous hunts with BH's. But ya it was all working so great. It really deserved a chance. Items got devalued. Loot tables where messed up. Things where using jedi specials. Damage modifiers at first didnt work. It was a huge unfinished mess. I think people where right to request as 70%+ of the population over and over told them about the CU's readiness for release. When SOE ignored its own forum poll, Tiggs, and correspondents to push out an unfinished, untested, buggy "upgraded" what did you want people to do? Swallow the CU and ask for more? You cannot excuse that behavior so swiftly. No one doubts the CU could have worked. I dont doubt the NGE could actually work and be a fun mmo. Both where implimented like shit. Why pre-cu? Because that is the last version of the game that was semi-balanced and semi-worked for the MAJORITY of the game. Key point there. If the CU had spent the development time needed and addressed core issues I agree the nge wouldn't have happened. I dont think the CU worked right. Most people tend to agree it was a work in progress. I dont want a 3 year old work in progress paying mmo.
Matter of fact that's one of the things I'm angriest about. All these "We want Pre-CU Back" idiots are what caused the NGE in the first place. They bitched and moaned and griped and whined DURING Pre-CU that they wanted the combat upgrade. Well then they GOT the combat upgrade and STILL griped and bitched and cancelled and griped and whined and LEC and SOE said "awe crap lets make this thing more like a standard MMO so that it's easier to learn for new players, to hell with the crybabies". Now, I do blame LEC and SOE for the NGE... it is utter crap. But I also blame the whiners for giving them the ability to "justify" going to it.
All these "PRE-CU Idiots" (A badge I wear proudly) caused the nge by asking for the previous version? That makes total sense! I ask for pre-cu and I get nge. Ok. SO LEC and SOE choose to ignore its customers and make a "standard" MMOFPS for "new" players because we liked the first version better? That is insane. You might want some of the pills I have to take for being a complete physco because that is so off the wall. "You weren't happy so we changed it".
"You weren't happy with our attempt to fix combat issues and wanted the old system back so instead we changed it again hoping to draw in the much larger wow playerbase."
Stop being an idiot. WoW came along and changed the success curve of mmo's. SOE chased it kicking to the curb its existing players hoping to draw on wow's success. Blaming people for wanting proper development to occur? Ya sorry I expect things to work that I pay for.
Originally posted by MX13 IF they did a rollback? Yes, the CU wasn't as good, but it was playable. We actually were having a TON of fun on Musty, they were starting to go in the right direction with it. The CU had negatives, and positives. But I'd rather play Pre-CU, even if I had to start over. I'd pay another $50 to play the Original CU that was never released.
For. The. Win.
I would have LOVED to see the design documents that GreenMarine was putting together for this. The forums were nuts with anticipation. And they should have been... GM was talking about things people wanted since beta, including smuggling (ANY DAY NOW! I SWEAR! IT'S COMING SOON!). Combat balanced for the GCW, NOT one on one crap. If there was any way to get a hold of those documents, and use them... erm, elsewhere... wow. Just, wow.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Kylrathin Originally posted by MX13 IF they did a rollback? Yes, the CU wasn't as good, but it was playable. We actually were having a TON of fun on Musty, they were starting to go in the right direction with it. The CU had negatives, and positives. But I'd rather play Pre-CU, even if I had to start over. I'd pay another $50 to play the Original CU that was never released.
For. The. Win.
I would have LOVED to see the design documents that GreenMarine was putting together for this. The forums were nuts with anticipation. And they should have been... GM was talking about things people wanted since beta, including smuggling (ANY DAY NOW! I SWEAR! IT'S COMING SOON!). Combat balanced for the GCW, NOT one on one crap. If there was any way to get a hold of those documents, and use them... erm, elsewhere... wow. Just, wow.
PM me your e-mail address and I'll mail them to you.
Heck.. I can make it a mass e-mail just as easily. Everyone's invited.. pass it around.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I'm having trouble deciding. I wasn't fond of the CU, I cancelled when it went live and went back 5 months later. So I played it for almost 2 months before the NGE hit. It was tolerable at that point. But there were things I didn't like. As others have said, the CL system SUCKED!. And yes, I've heard many fanbois tell me it was there before just not visible. That's BS. There was a rough rating of difficulty, but it wasn't anything like the CU level system. In the CU, your level determined how much damage you could do and how much you would take from your opponent. It also determined what would aggro you. No more kreetles aggroing your dual master toon when you could kill them in one default attack. (that always amused me BTW) Anyway, as I ramble on... I don't think I'd like a CU game brought back. I may end up playing it off and on, but not a lot.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP Eve: Cardoh Dycen I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Originally posted by Trubaduren AH FOR GOD SAKE, in pre cu there was a fucking combat lvl also it just didnt show it , you still needed for example 4000 to use the gun for that lvl on marksman. ( dunno what gun but you got a cetetfication)
I mean the combat lvl just shows, it dosent make a real diffrent. Its just nubmers, you are all so hanged up by "there no lvl in swg, just skills"
its in cu to, just that it "shows"
bah.
This has already been argued and your side lost. :P They told us pre-cu had combat levels so we'd shut up whining about the CU.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt Wrongo there Bucko... Combat Levels were always in the game. If you EVER did missions and paid any attention whatsoever you would have seen them on the mission terminals (PRE CU). Mission Difficulty indicated what "combat Level" the missions were for. They went up to 80, always. In fact, when they implemented the Jedi FRS the reason that Master Commando and Master Bounty Hunter templates gave Jedi more FRS points than other class combinations was because the MBH and MC were the highest innate Combat Level. Some TKM builds were very high as well but most other 'hybrid' templates fell somewhere in the '70's' whereas a good MBH template could hit the equivalent of CL86. You just never SAW The Combat Levels.
What the difference between Pre-CU and Post-CU vis-a-vis the Combat Levels was that SOE, in their infinite non-wisdom and ass-backwards logic, gave modifiers to hit and damage based on combat level in the CU along with making the CL for players (and mobs) visible.
So, yes, the Combat Levels were always there. The CU just: 1) Made them visibile 2) Added combat modifiers based upon CL Difference. <---- This was the real problem with Post-CU CL's. If they hadn't done this it wouldn't have been a huge big deal.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by LilT
Originally posted by Trubaduren AH FOR GOD SAKE, in pre cu there was a fucking combat lvl also it just didnt show it , you still needed for example 4000 to use the gun for that lvl on marksman. ( dunno what gun but you got a cetetfication)
I mean the combat lvl just shows, it dosent make a real diffrent. Its just nubmers, you are all so hanged up by "there no lvl in swg, just skills"
its in cu to, just that it "shows"
bah.
This has already been argued and your side lost. :P They told us pre-cu had combat levels so we'd shut up whining about the CU.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt Wrongo there Bucko... Combat Levels were always in the game. If you EVER did missions and paid any attention whatsoever you would have seen them on the mission terminals (PRE CU). Mission Difficulty indicated what "combat Level" the missions were for. They went up to 80, always. In fact, when they implemented the Jedi FRS the reason that Master Commando and Master Bounty Hunter templates gave Jedi more FRS points than other class combinations was because the MBH and MC were the highest innate Combat Level. Some TKM builds were very high as well but most other 'hybrid' templates fell somewhere in the '70's' whereas a good MBH template could hit the equivalent of CL86. You just never SAW The Combat Levels.
What the difference between Pre-CU and Post-CU vis-a-vis the Combat Levels was that SOE, in their infinite non-wisdom and ass-backwards logic, gave modifiers to hit and damage based on combat level in the CU along with making the CL for players (and mobs) visible.
So, yes, the Combat Levels were always there. The CU just: 1) Made them visibile 2) Added combat modifiers based upon CL Difference. <---- This was the real problem with Post-CU CL's. If they hadn't done this it wouldn't have been a huge big deal.
Which is incorrect, because they were...
1. effected by what weapon you had 2. effected by how many were grouped 3. effected by pets 4. NOT effected by what class you were.
Yes, they like to draw this parallel, but the plain fact is that they ADDED the combat levels and the damage mitigation at the SAME TIME. You can't say it was the same system, because TOO MANY variables were dynamic on the mission terminal system, where ONE thing was dynamic on the CL system.. your profession.
AND.. the terminals acted the SAME WAY post cu than they did before.
$OE lied about it to make us accept them... because the damage mitigation was just too big of a pill to swallow.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Three very notable changes are being made to the SWG user interface with the release of Chapter 2 in order to make game-play more fun for the user. These changes all work in tandem to create a more natural feeling interface.
The first change was revamping the existing “safety” feature and turning it into an automatic aiming system. When you have an intended target set and use your primary attack you will always aim for your intended target. Now it's easy to attack the right target in a crowd – but the use of heavy weapons may still attract unwanted attention!
The second change was the addition of an auto-fire toggle for your primary attack. When you have an intended target set and have auto-aim enabled, this will make you repeatedly use your primary attack against your target. The addition of auto-fire should free players up to more easily stay mobile and use secondary attacks This new keymap is found under the “target” keymap tab and is called “Toggle Repeat Auto Attack” – the suggested binding is to the tilde (~) key.
The above features required us to find a new way to select targets and potentially open radial menus so a new key mapping that does both was created. This key map will set the object under your cursor as your intended target and open the radial menu for that object. Attackable objects have to be clicked twice for their radial menu to open. This keymap is found under the “UI” keymap tab and is called “Select Target and Summon Radial Menu” – the suggested binding is to the second (right) mouse button. If you remap your right mouse button, you will probably want to enable the “Actions can be fired from toolbar” option in the “Controls” tab on the options dialog. This will allow you to use your secondary attacks and abilities by simply pressing the toolbar buttons.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Wildcat84 The CU wasn't as good as pre-CU, but at least it had most of the elements of the game.
However, what would they do about all the respec Jedi?
If they do classic servers, they may do CU servers instead of pre-CU ones, as the expansions would work. That would disappoint me, if I am going to have to start over (and I don't mind doing that) I'd rather it be pre-CU.
What if they brought Pre-cu back and kept Jedi As a starter class yet not an alfa ? /shrug
Naaa, bring it back to it's glory days. This was the best time for Jedi and it was earned. At all of the summits every single person there wanted the class to be strong but with risks like we once had. Making it a goal in game was great, giving it away easy was a mistake as we can all see now.
There is nothing wrong with it being alpha if the risks are there to counter it -- in pre-cu and pre-9 they were there trust me. People forget this, I have yet to figure out why... they all just think Jedi roamed free and powerful, when this is the farthest from the truth.
They always cry and whine about them being hard to get, or too strong... but see this kept a balance to having 85378727 of them running around. We hid, we hid because the loss was much higher then the gain -- THIS made it fun and exciting, granted I like hard games with some complexity so that helps with my comments I'm sure.
The day they made Jedi a starting class is when Jedi took the worse turn ever, it was made into a joke and a mere shadow of it's former self. As told at the summits, it was done for marketing, nothing more.. Grant hated that he had to do it, he said so.. but it was not his choice.
In the end, losing the force bar and Jedi feel made the NGE worse...using a pole arm and running around with no risk was not the Jedi way, at one time we really did have it good, I just think so many things got involved that made it worse, from jealous people that did not want to earn it, to Bounty Hunters that felt like they should always win no matter what. So many things were handled wrong, instead of them standing up and holding true to it like they did the NGE, they gave in to the kids and gave it away.
I can tell you that 95% of the people at 1 FanFest, 1 Summit I met did NOT want Jedi to be like it is now, free and easy... and most of them did not even unlock, they wanted the old Jedi not this NGE version. In a way I wish that some people could have had that chance to live Jedi the way Raph wanted it -- I think alot of hard core players would have loved it. Risk vs Reward did work, it was the support factor and marketing that took that all away. But alas , they also took away the real game.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by LilT
Originally posted by Trubaduren AH FOR GOD SAKE, in pre cu there was a fucking combat lvl also it just didnt show it , you still needed for example 4000 to use the gun for that lvl on marksman. ( dunno what gun but you got a cetetfication)
I mean the combat lvl just shows, it dosent make a real diffrent. Its just nubmers, you are all so hanged up by "there no lvl in swg, just skills"
its in cu to, just that it "shows"
bah.
This has already been argued and your side lost. :P They told us pre-cu had combat levels so we'd shut up whining about the CU.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt Wrongo there Bucko... Combat Levels were always in the game. If you EVER did missions and paid any attention whatsoever you would have seen them on the mission terminals (PRE CU). Mission Difficulty indicated what "combat Level" the missions were for. They went up to 80, always. In fact, when they implemented the Jedi FRS the reason that Master Commando and Master Bounty Hunter templates gave Jedi more FRS points than other class combinations was because the MBH and MC were the highest innate Combat Level. Some TKM builds were very high as well but most other 'hybrid' templates fell somewhere in the '70's' whereas a good MBH template could hit the equivalent of CL86. You just never SAW The Combat Levels.
What the difference between Pre-CU and Post-CU vis-a-vis the Combat Levels was that SOE, in their infinite non-wisdom and ass-backwards logic, gave modifiers to hit and damage based on combat level in the CU along with making the CL for players (and mobs) visible.
So, yes, the Combat Levels were always there. The CU just: 1) Made them visibile 2) Added combat modifiers based upon CL Difference. <---- This was the real problem with Post-CU CL's. If they hadn't done this it wouldn't have been a huge big deal.
All the mobs pre-cu had FIXED damage tables which stay fixed regardless how many skill boxes you had so you could be a Novice armorsmith and a nuna could hit you for say 100 damage on the other scale you could be a Master BH and the nuna could hit your for 100 damage see ? The damage was fixed. When you wore armor that 100 damage was affected by resists so if you have say 80% kinetic resists that 100 damage (assuming it was kinetic) would be absorbed by the armor so you would recieve in theory 20% of the kinetic damage which the nuna dished out and in the end recieve 20 of the 100 damage. What affected this even more was not the number of skill boxes you had or weather you were a master but what skill mods your profession gave you i.e if you had 100+ for dodge and damage mitigation that damage coupled with armor would decrease even more.
So you are incorrect to assume combat levels were used pre-cu as they are in the NGE. The mission levels were dished out by order of Mob difficulty and to certain extent how many skill boxes you had which equated to what mobs you could fight not how much damage you recieve from the mobs or alter their damage tables according to your level as the system currently works. Examples of this can be seen from the many different type of viotar lizards on dantooine some dished out more damage and were harder to kill then others but names were different i.e different mobs different damage table. These mobs may have been listed as level 79 missions for example, and you could have been an Merchant/Chef grouped with say 6 Master BH's but if you got hit they hit you for exactly the same damage the BH's recieved.
This could be seen even clearer when you grouped to get high level missions and left the group and did the missions on your own. Now say if you were a double master such as say TKM and master brawler you took one of these lvl 79 lizard missions if you checked the combat log you would see "lizard uses bitch slap and hits you for 400 damage your left biceps absorbs X amount etc". Now you could have been a novice marksman and do the same mission if you check your combat log again it would be identical interms of damage dealt to you. However due to the fact that because you didn't have certain skills at that early stage you recieved more damage as the hit passed through your armor.
Now you see, that is where there is a massive difference between NGE and Pre-cu, and why the NGE to a certain extent has made crafted goods in to items which you don't really need and worthless because they don't directly effect combat as they used to do they still have some use in PVP but in reality if you know how to use your profession you can go on with out food, armor and weapons (crafted of course due to looted ones being better). The reason I say this is because the mobs you kill is certainly determined by your level, (example is unrealistic but you will get my basic reasoning) so if your level 5 you can kill a mob thats level 9 with some difficulty, if your level 5 and you fight a nuna thats level 12 your dead. The system determines that even though the nuna is a small turd and you are much bigger then it , its combat level is x amount higher then yours so it must deal out this amount of damage to kill you. Where as before you could have been a novice marksman and struggled a bit but once you attained the skills to advance you in the combat field it got easier for you too kill the nunas because you had weapons, armor, buffs, offensive mods and defensive mods which affected the damage your recieved and dealt.
This is a basic explanation and I could go in to more detail but its already been said 100's of times by many people when they sat there and proved that level determines out come of combat not player skills + crafted items + weapons + skill enhancements as it should be.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
I know I'm late to this discussion, but it's pre-CU or bust for me. Give me back my mitigations, damage types, armor types, etc... You know...make me think and read again. Maybe have a reason to pull that obsolete weapon once in a while because it was the only one with the damage type I needed.
Heh, reminds me of killing those Nightsisters that were only susceptible to kinetic damage. Being a Rifleman I had nothing to help my guild with other than a wooden staff. But being the RPer I am, I still joined the fray, whacking at the ho for 10 points a pop just to be a meatshield and say I helped.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi the cu without levels would be fine IMO.
The CU without levels IS the pre-cu.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Malickiebloo What if they brought Pre-cu back and kept Jedi As a starter class yet not an alfa ? /shrug
Jedi as a starting class is not acceptable under any circumstances. Jedi are all but extinct in this time period. If Jedi are a starting class, its not even a star wars game.
As for CU vs. Pre-CU, it would depend on how they implemented. In any event, I would need SOE's continue to repent for at least 6 months after changing back to CU/Pre-CU before I would consider coming back to make sure they are serious and as a futher punishment for the bad conduct. Even if they were still repenting, I am not sure I would even come back then. I could never trust that they aren't secretly planning so new horribel change that would negate my in game achievments like the NGE.
An easy solution would have been to get rid of the ability for you to take on more then one combat profession. So you would only be allowed to take on one master prof and say one novice profession and changing the skill point requirments so it used all your skill points to learn those. This would indeed mean that each novice proff and master would need tweeking to have the skills needed by the ultimate Master proff you would be but it would have eliminated the stacking. Whilst still allow you the freedom to decide what you wanted to be i.e.
Crafting & entertainers would still be allowed to dabble as having crafting, merchant and entertainment combos didn't affect combat so they could still use their skill points as normal.
This would have made it so much easier to bring balance to the game whilst still allowing people the freedom to chose various paths according to what Novice profs they took provided they still had the ability to drop their skill boxes and chose another profession without having to delete their characters simply by making use of the old trainers.
Its simple but effective however I can't believe they didn't consider this and am resigned to thinking that someone at Lucas Arts pushed the NGE knowing the old system could be balanced just to take a gamble and see if they could bring in more players. I have a suspicion it could have been Jim Ward as he essentially was taken on because of his ability to market goods and bring in money.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
Comments
Q to the F to the mother f'ing E.
CL's are lame. Huge immersion breaker for me when a player/mob approaches with a stupid level by their name. Skill trees for the win.
/agree
This was the one thing I ABSOLUTLY DETESTED in the CU. Especially considering the game didn't need them.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
The cu is the reason i left, too. I cant exprese in mere words how much i hated it, noises are better. The ONLY way i'd resub to SWG is if they opened pre-cu galaxies with the intent of implementing the ORIGINAL cu. No Rollbacks, fresh servers.
Oh yeah, and a new dev team.
So like, basically when hell freezes over, i'll resub to swg.
For the Horde!
I mean the combat lvl just shows, it dosent make a real diffrent. Its just nubmers, you are all so hanged up by "there no lvl in swg, just skills"
its in cu to, just that it "shows"
bah.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
For the Horde!
There are only 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't
I would have LOVED to see the design documents that GreenMarine was putting together for this. The forums were nuts with anticipation. And they should have been... GM was talking about things people wanted since beta, including smuggling (ANY DAY NOW! I SWEAR! IT'S COMING SOON!). Combat balanced for the GCW, NOT one on one crap. If there was any way to get a hold of those documents, and use them... erm, elsewhere... wow. Just, wow.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
Yes me and my friend's from SWG
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I would have LOVED to see the design documents that GreenMarine was putting together for this. The forums were nuts with anticipation. And they should have been... GM was talking about things people wanted since beta, including smuggling (ANY DAY NOW! I SWEAR! IT'S COMING SOON!). Combat balanced for the GCW, NOT one on one crap. If there was any way to get a hold of those documents, and use them... erm, elsewhere... wow. Just, wow.
PM me your e-mail address and I'll mail them to you.
Heck.. I can make it a mass e-mail just as easily. Everyone's invited.. pass it around.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
What if they did bring back pre-CU - what do they offer over the emu besides a monthly fee?
I am a pre-CU vet so have previous experience at what SOE/LA are like.
Let them try a CU server - no doubt it will be without me.
Anyway, as I ramble on... I don't think I'd like a CU game brought back. I may end up playing it off and on, but not a lot.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP
Eve: Cardoh Dycen
I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt Wrongo there Bucko...
Combat Levels were always in the game. If you EVER did missions and paid any attention whatsoever you would have seen them on the mission terminals (PRE CU). Mission Difficulty indicated what "combat Level" the missions were for. They went up to 80, always. In fact, when they implemented the Jedi FRS the reason that Master Commando and Master Bounty Hunter templates gave Jedi more FRS points than other class combinations was because the MBH and MC were the highest innate Combat Level. Some TKM builds were very high as well but most other 'hybrid' templates fell somewhere in the '70's' whereas a good MBH template could hit the equivalent of CL86. You just never SAW The Combat Levels.
What the difference between Pre-CU and Post-CU vis-a-vis the Combat Levels was that SOE, in their infinite non-wisdom and ass-backwards logic, gave modifiers to hit and damage based on combat level in the CU along with making the CL for players (and mobs) visible.
So, yes, the Combat Levels were always there. The CU just:
1) Made them visibile
2) Added combat modifiers based upon CL Difference. <---- This was the real problem with Post-CU CL's. If they hadn't done this it wouldn't have been a huge big deal.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Durned dbl posts.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt Wrongo there Bucko...
Combat Levels were always in the game. If you EVER did missions and paid any attention whatsoever you would have seen them on the mission terminals (PRE CU). Mission Difficulty indicated what "combat Level" the missions were for. They went up to 80, always. In fact, when they implemented the Jedi FRS the reason that Master Commando and Master Bounty Hunter templates gave Jedi more FRS points than other class combinations was because the MBH and MC were the highest innate Combat Level. Some TKM builds were very high as well but most other 'hybrid' templates fell somewhere in the '70's' whereas a good MBH template could hit the equivalent of CL86. You just never SAW The Combat Levels.
What the difference between Pre-CU and Post-CU vis-a-vis the Combat Levels was that SOE, in their infinite non-wisdom and ass-backwards logic, gave modifiers to hit and damage based on combat level in the CU along with making the CL for players (and mobs) visible.
So, yes, the Combat Levels were always there. The CU just:
1) Made them visibile
2) Added combat modifiers based upon CL Difference. <---- This was the real problem with Post-CU CL's. If they hadn't done this it wouldn't have been a huge big deal.
Which is incorrect, because they were...
1. effected by what weapon you had
2. effected by how many were grouped
3. effected by pets
4. NOT effected by what class you were.
Yes, they like to draw this parallel, but the plain fact is that they ADDED the combat levels and the damage mitigation at the SAME TIME. You can't say it was the same system, because TOO MANY variables were dynamic on the mission terminal system, where ONE thing was dynamic on the CL system.. your profession.
AND.. the terminals acted the SAME WAY post cu than they did before.
$OE lied about it to make us accept them... because the damage mitigation was just too big of a pill to swallow.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Targeting Changes:
Three
very notable changes are being made to the SWG user interface with the
release of Chapter 2 in order to make game-play more fun for the
user. These changes all work in tandem to create a more natural feeling
interface.
turning it into an automatic aiming system. When you have an intended
target set and use your primary attack you will always aim for your
intended target. Now it's easy to attack the right target in a crowd –
but the use of heavy weapons may still attract unwanted attention!
primary attack. When you have an intended target set and have auto-aim
enabled, this will make you repeatedly use your primary attack against
your target. The addition of auto-fire should free players up to more
easily stay mobile and use secondary attacks This new keymap is found
under the “target” keymap tab and is called “Toggle Repeat Auto Attack”
– the suggested binding is to the tilde (~) key.
and potentially open radial menus so a new key mapping that does both
was created. This key map will set the object under your cursor as your
intended target and open the radial menu for that object. Attackable
objects have to be clicked twice for their radial menu to open. This
keymap is found under the “UI” keymap tab and is called “Select Target
and Summon Radial Menu” – the suggested binding is to the second
(right) mouse button. If you remap your right mouse button, you will
probably want to enable the “Actions can be fired from toolbar” option
in the “Controls” tab on the options dialog. This will allow you to use
your secondary attacks and abilities by simply pressing the toolbar
buttons.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Naaa, bring it back to it's glory days. This was the best time for Jedi and it was earned. At all of the summits every single person there wanted the class to be strong but with risks like we once had. Making it a goal in game was great, giving it away easy was a mistake as we can all see now.
There is nothing wrong with it being alpha if the risks are there to counter it -- in pre-cu and pre-9 they were there trust me. People forget this, I have yet to figure out why... they all just think Jedi roamed free and powerful, when this is the farthest from the truth.
They always cry and whine about them being hard to get, or too strong... but see this kept a balance to having 85378727 of them running around. We hid, we hid because the loss was much higher then the gain -- THIS made it fun and exciting, granted I like hard games with some complexity so that helps with my comments I'm sure.
The day they made Jedi a starting class is when Jedi took the worse turn ever, it was made into a joke and a mere shadow of it's former self. As told at the summits, it was done for marketing, nothing more.. Grant hated that he had to do it, he said so.. but it was not his choice.
In the end, losing the force bar and Jedi feel made the NGE worse...using a pole arm and running around with no risk was not the Jedi way, at one time we really did have it good, I just think so many things got involved that made it worse, from jealous people that did not want to earn it, to Bounty Hunters that felt like they should always win no matter what. So many things were handled wrong, instead of them standing up and holding true to it like they did the NGE, they gave in to the kids and gave it away.
I can tell you that 95% of the people at 1 FanFest, 1 Summit I met did NOT want Jedi to be like it is now, free and easy... and most of them did not even unlock, they wanted the old Jedi not this NGE version. In a way I wish that some people could have had that chance to live Jedi the way Raph wanted it -- I think alot of hard core players would have loved it. Risk vs Reward did work, it was the support factor and marketing that took that all away. But alas , they also took away the real game.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt Wrongo there Bucko...
Combat Levels were always in the game. If you EVER did missions and paid any attention whatsoever you would have seen them on the mission terminals (PRE CU). Mission Difficulty indicated what "combat Level" the missions were for. They went up to 80, always. In fact, when they implemented the Jedi FRS the reason that Master Commando and Master Bounty Hunter templates gave Jedi more FRS points than other class combinations was because the MBH and MC were the highest innate Combat Level. Some TKM builds were very high as well but most other 'hybrid' templates fell somewhere in the '70's' whereas a good MBH template could hit the equivalent of CL86. You just never SAW The Combat Levels.
What the difference between Pre-CU and Post-CU vis-a-vis the Combat Levels was that SOE, in their infinite non-wisdom and ass-backwards logic, gave modifiers to hit and damage based on combat level in the CU along with making the CL for players (and mobs) visible.
So, yes, the Combat Levels were always there. The CU just:
1) Made them visibile
2) Added combat modifiers based upon CL Difference. <---- This was the real problem with Post-CU CL's. If they hadn't done this it wouldn't have been a huge big deal.
All the mobs pre-cu had FIXED damage tables which stay fixed regardless how many skill boxes you had so you could be a Novice armorsmith and a nuna could hit you for say 100 damage on the other scale you could be a Master BH and the nuna could hit your for 100 damage see ? The damage was fixed. When you wore armor that 100 damage was affected by resists so if you have say 80% kinetic resists that 100 damage (assuming it was kinetic) would be absorbed by the armor so you would recieve in theory 20% of the kinetic damage which the nuna dished out and in the end recieve 20 of the 100 damage. What affected this even more was not the number of skill boxes you had or weather you were a master but what skill mods your profession gave you i.e if you had 100+ for dodge and damage mitigation that damage coupled with armor would decrease even more.
So you are incorrect to assume combat levels were used pre-cu as they are in the NGE. The mission levels were dished out by order of Mob difficulty and to certain extent how many skill boxes you had which equated to what mobs you could fight not how much damage you recieve from the mobs or alter their damage tables according to your level as the system currently works. Examples of this can be seen from the many different type of viotar lizards on dantooine some dished out more damage and were harder to kill then others but names were different i.e different mobs different damage table. These mobs may have been listed as level 79 missions for example, and you could have been an Merchant/Chef grouped with say 6 Master BH's but if you got hit they hit you for exactly the same damage the BH's recieved.
This could be seen even clearer when you grouped to get high level missions and left the group and did the missions on your own. Now say if you were a double master such as say TKM and master brawler you took one of these lvl 79 lizard missions if you checked the combat log you would see "lizard uses bitch slap and hits you for 400 damage your left biceps absorbs X amount etc". Now you could have been a novice marksman and do the same mission if you check your combat log again it would be identical interms of damage dealt to you. However due to the fact that because you didn't have certain skills at that early stage you recieved more damage as the hit passed through your armor.
Now you see, that is where there is a massive difference between NGE and Pre-cu, and why the NGE to a certain extent has made crafted goods in to items which you don't really need and worthless because they don't directly effect combat as they used to do they still have some use in PVP but in reality if you know how to use your profession you can go on with out food, armor and weapons (crafted of course due to looted ones being better). The reason I say this is because the mobs you kill is certainly determined by your level, (example is unrealistic but you will get my basic reasoning) so if your level 5 you can kill a mob thats level 9 with some difficulty, if your level 5 and you fight a nuna thats level 12 your dead. The system determines that even though the nuna is a small turd and you are much bigger then it , its combat level is x amount higher then yours so it must deal out this amount of damage to kill you. Where as before you could have been a novice marksman and struggled a bit but once you attained the skills to advance you in the combat field it got easier for you too kill the nunas because you had weapons, armor, buffs, offensive mods and defensive mods which affected the damage your recieved and dealt.
This is a basic explanation and I could go in to more detail but its already been said 100's of times by many people when they sat there and proved that level determines out come of combat not player skills + crafted items + weapons + skill enhancements as it should be.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
I know I'm late to this discussion, but it's pre-CU or bust for me. Give me back my mitigations, damage types, armor types, etc... You know...make me think and read again. Maybe have a reason to pull that obsolete weapon once in a while because it was the only one with the damage type I needed.
Heh, reminds me of killing those Nightsisters that were only susceptible to kinetic damage. Being a Rifleman I had nothing to help my guild with other than a wooden staff. But being the RPer I am, I still joined the fray, whacking at the ho for 10 points a pop just to be a meatshield and say I helped.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Jedi as a starting class is not acceptable under any circumstances. Jedi are all but extinct in this time period. If Jedi are a starting class, its not even a star wars game.
As for CU vs. Pre-CU, it would depend on how they implemented. In any event, I would need SOE's continue to repent for at least 6 months after changing back to CU/Pre-CU before I would consider coming back to make sure they are serious and as a futher punishment for the bad conduct. Even if they were still repenting, I am not sure I would even come back then. I could never trust that they aren't secretly planning so new horribel change that would negate my in game achievments like the NGE.
I would throw up. Then continue my search for a decent game run by a decent company.
QFE Me too!
brawler ------ TKM
brawler ------ Swordsman
brawler ------ Fencer
Marksman ----- rifleman
Marksman ----- Bounty Hunter
Marksman ----- commando
scout ---- ranger
Crafting & entertainers would still be allowed to dabble as having crafting, merchant and entertainment combos didn't affect combat so they could still use their skill points as normal.
This would have made it so much easier to bring balance to the game whilst still allowing people the freedom to chose various paths according to what Novice profs they took provided they still had the ability to drop their skill boxes and chose another profession without having to delete their characters simply by making use of the old trainers.
Its simple but effective however I can't believe they didn't consider this and am resigned to thinking that someone at Lucas Arts pushed the NGE knowing the old system could be balanced just to take a gamble and see if they could bring in more players. I have a suspicion it could have been Jim Ward as he essentially was taken on because of his ability to market goods and bring in money.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200