Originally posted by 94Z07 [quote]Originally posted by AlexAmore [b] Originally posted by 94Z07 Originally posted by ferox420with all the toxins and synthetic materials found in todays meat products (even organic meat <no such thing as organic meat, but you get my point>) a funny quip my friend said to me last week is making more and more sense as blunt and obnoxious as it was ...he said "Kill all of the vegitarians and eat them!"
Are you suggesting there is such a thing as inorganic meat? All meat is organic. Exactly what are these toxins?Generally it's antibiotics, steroids, stuff like that. Plus the stuff the animals do eat on the farm have pesticides. Now the USDA is asking for 8 more substances to add to the meat.[url=http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/3a19cf44-1a16-4522-a78d-6b9ba7e4b127] Exactly what was synthetic about the ribeye I ate yesterday? This is very basic stuff. You should probably educate yourself a little bit on the food you eat. Just because it's at the market doesn't mean it's good for you.[/b][/quote] Words have specific meanings. That concept is pretty basic. You should educate yourself before you use words you don't understand. Just because some berkinstock-wearing, kumbaya-singing person labels something as a toxin doesn't make it one. Antibiotics, steroids, "stuff like that", and pesticides are not toxins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxin Bottom line is these antibiotics, steroids, and pesticides make your "organic" meat not organic anymore. They are toxic to your body.
______________________________ "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!" -cheer leading, flag waving American
Anyone else notice the whole "stem cell" thing? Ok, well, if they're using stem cells, then that's like turning an egg into a steak, right? Kinda gross... I'd rather just become a vegetarian, but even that's not really an option so far out here in the boonies. Plus, I'm the only one in my household that would even consider this, and we're broke enough as is. Maybe if my father didn't drive 100 miles every other day to see his girlfriend... -.-
(That's about 100 miles total, not one way. Still a waste of money, though.)
Originally posted by AlexAmore Originally posted by 94Z07 [quote]Originally posted by AlexAmore [b] Originally posted by 94Z07 Originally posted by ferox420with all the toxins and synthetic materials found in todays meat products (even organic meat <no such thing as organic meat, but you get my point>) a funny quip my friend said to me last week is making more and more sense as blunt and obnoxious as it was ...he said "Kill all of the vegitarians and eat them!"
Are you suggesting there is such a thing as inorganic meat? All meat is organic. Exactly what are these toxins?Generally it's antibiotics, steroids, stuff like that. Plus the stuff the animals do eat on the farm have pesticides. Now the USDA is asking for 8 more substances to add to the meat.[url=http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/3a19cf44-1a16-4522-a78d-6b9ba7e4b127] Exactly what was synthetic about the ribeye I ate yesterday? This is very basic stuff. You should probably educate yourself a little bit on the food you eat. Just because it's at the market doesn't mean it's good for you.[/b][/quote] Words have specific meanings. That concept is pretty basic. You should educate yourself before you use words you don't understand. Just because some berkinstock-wearing, kumbaya-singing person labels something as a toxin doesn't make it one. Antibiotics, steroids, "stuff like that", and pesticides are not toxins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxin Bottom line is these antibiotics, steroids, and pesticides make your "organic" meat not organic anymore. They are toxic to your body. What is your definition of "organic". In Websters it is defined as from living tissue and/or carbon based. There is also an entry that describes what I think you mean. That is naturally raised (free of chemicals (hormones are naturally occuring also)). So the meat would still be organic, but would be tainted. Right?
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
If it's safe I would probably eat it. But there are many, many concerns about this. I remember a documentary long ago about genetical altered grain. It was placed on 1 field. The next year, all field around had the genetical altered grain. It spread through insects. I think this shows that this isn't something you can just do freely. It can have consequences. What will this meat do in our bodies? Will it continue to grow/alter after it's eaten. And all sort of questions like that have to be answered before this can become something.
But when this is perfected. Imagine some of the possibilities. Access to food for everyone, ofcourse this is most likely not going to happen Most likely it goes into the hands of a private company.
Originally posted by tetsul Take some stem cells, or myoblasts, which are the precursors to muscle cells. Um... what?
Yeah, I know, right? I wonder where they happen to be getting these particular stem cells... Hopefully from cows or something, if they intend for humans to eat it. Though, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of growing the meat, when it would've grown into a cow, anyway? I mean, it's a nice thought, since the cow wouldn't have to be brutally slaughtered, but still... Since when do people do things just because it's a nice thought?
Originally posted by tetsul Take some stem cells, or myoblasts, which are the precursors to muscle cells. Um... what?
We can grow meat from stem cells if we learn how they work. No baby cow involved.
Originally posted by AlexAmore Originally posted by Arcken I read somewhere that wed all starve if we were vegetarians because the world doesnt produce enough veggies to feed everyone. Meat is not only good, but its a necessity.
Where did you read that? Actually the opposite is true. It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of meat. The average adult human burns about 2,000 calories per day, just living his or her life. We use almost all the calories that we consume to move around, breathe, and do everyday tasks. The same is true of farmed animals. For every pound of food that they are fed, only a fraction of the calories are returned in the form of edible flesh. The rest of those calories are burned away raising the animal to slaughter weight or contributing to feathers, blood, and other parts of the animal that are not eaten by humans. This is why animals raised for food have to eat as many as 16 pounds of grain to create just 1 pound of edible flesh.
Of course these days with the extreme pollution that these factory farms produce they of course ruin the soil and yes that makes for less land for veggies. But we can't eat cattle grain. How do you know that the land used for grain can be used for something humans can eat and how do you know that it'll be more nuterious than one pound of beef? I don't mean any offence, I'm just curious.
Originally posted by tetsul Originally posted by Distortion0 Originally posted by tetsul Take some stem cells, or myoblasts, which are the precursors to muscle cells. Um... what?
We can grow meat from stem cells if we learn how they work. No baby cow involved.
So the groups that think eating meat is wrong or to some unnatural wants either:
- Instead of eating a cow, eating the product the was grown from a chopped up unborn cow fetus (actual stem cells)
- Me to eat some unidentified, lab created test tube batter that doesn't naturally occur anywhere on Earth. (created stem cells)
Pass on both.
Heh, I didn't say it was appatising. I agree all the way.
Originally posted by tetsul Originally posted by Distortion0 Originally posted by tetsul Take some stem cells, or myoblasts, which are the precursors to muscle cells. Um... what?
We can grow meat from stem cells if we learn how they work. No baby cow involved.
So the groups that think eating meat is wrong or to some unnatural wants either:
- Instead of eating a cow, eating the product the was grown from a chopped up unborn cow fetus (actual stem cells)
- Me to eat some unidentified, lab created test tube batter that doesn't naturally occur anywhere on Earth. (created stem cells)
Pass on both.
okay, what is the problem about eating this meat? This is the same as the steak u might eat every night, or the burger (whcih is also chopped up cow, just not the fetus), or the chicken breast, etc. It's the same exact tissue. This is what they are aiming for
Instead of being attached to a skeletal strutcure, with veins and arteries bringing in nutrients and removing metabolic byproducts, and being stimulated by electrical neuronic discharges... it'll be on a tray.
It'll have a fluid that will carry oxigen and the other required nutrients in solution to the meat tissue. Minute electrical discharges will stimulate growth, much like the electrical discharges that make your muscles and any other animal's muscles contract. The waste rpoducts will probably come out the other end and be drained away, and the meat will grow.
Wither in vats, on trays, whatever, it's just be one large blob of meat. Instead of having a limited volume, like regular meat does (a particular cut can only be as large as the animals has it), you wil just have muscle tissue growing. You will have blocks of mean, 10-foot long steaks, etc, whatever.
What is the big shocker about this? It's food. it's just not growing behind a mouth, eyes, teeth, wings, feathers, whatever.
And what's the big deal with stem cells? "they would become a cow!" well, they won't. Just like the fertile eggs you eat for breakfast won't become chickens and no one makes a fuss about it. None of these species are threatned with exctinction, so the "it would become a _____" does not apply here. If these were animals becoming nearly extinct by the day, then yes, u would have a point. So if you said "don't destroy the bengal tiger stem cell because there's not many tigers left around, and so not many potentially extractable stem cells, so every potential tiger-to-be counts, etc" you'd be right. But it's CHICKENS, COWS, PIGS, DUCKS, etc, none of them will disappear suddenly in the next forseeable future, so just get over it. Yes, it would become a living, breathing thing, but it won't, big deal.
This whole thing about stems cells just needs to die right now. It's a cell. It has a membrane, it has organelles, and it has a nucleus. There are no eyes. There is no brain, there are no hands, and most likely there are no complex thoughts whatsoever inside of it. It's a cell, like any other. Hundreds of cells die everyday in your body, and you're not crying about them. "huuu, huuu, huu, poor epitelial cells that died today, they could still have been such nice skin for so many days" well, they didn't.
It'd be sweet to have them grow muscles, then transplant them into your body... Or, like, wings! ...Oh, how I'd love wings... 'Cept the whole "can't lay on your back" thing... And the whole "They'd have to be like twnty feet across" thing... Unless, of course, they swapped out your entire skeleton, but that'd hurt like a bastard, and I don't think you could heal with the current technology...
Oh, but I think one of the stigmas with stem cells is that people accossiate them with aborted human fetuses. So when they hear "Stem cell meat," they think "Ew, people meat." I could be wrong, though. In fact, I probably am. I guess it's just 'cuz they never talk about getting stem cells from animals... Not that I think they should take away animals' babies, mind you. Maybe eggs, or something... I don't know...
First we take 12 ounce of your favorite testtube meat, stick in a vat to bring out it's rich, juicy artifically added nutrients, then electrically discarge it to mouth watering perfection. Topped with cheese on a sesame seed bun. Mmmmm mmmm.
Originally posted by tetsul First we take 12 ounce of your favorite testtube meat, stick in a vat to bring out it's rich, juicy artifically added nutrients, then electrically discarge it to mouth watering perfection. Topped with cheese on a sesame seed bun. Mmmmm mmmm.
sounds good to me. the meat grows, u collect and eat. reminescent of hydroponics.
I dont see anything wrong with that, especially if all the ingredients are natural and non-toxic (notice you said "artificially added ingredients", not "added artificial ingredients", which is a fundamentally big difference)
Bu tlet me add that I am not interested in steroid/hormone altered meat as well, that is not what I am looking for here.
Originally posted by tetsul First we take 12 ounce of your favorite testtube meat, stick in a vat to bring out it's rich, juicy artifically added nutrients, then electrically discarge it to mouth watering perfection. Topped with cheese on a sesame seed bun. Mmmmm mmmm.
If you have never heard of people eating animals before then you would think it's gross aswell. Instead it's a very culturally accepted behavior. This new meat, like the scientists said, is going to be healthier, humane, safe, and environmentally friendly (for our future). So lets not have our tastebuds run the world; think logically.
First we take 12 ounce of your favorite factory farm meat, stick it in a crowded, fecal infested room for it's whole life, inject the crap out of it with all your favorite chemicals so we get even fatter chickens at record speed all for our profit, then we abuse them because we are superior, then kill them slowly because...well we don't know. Topped with cheese on a sesame seed bun. Mmmmm mmmm.
______________________________ "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!" -cheer leading, flag waving American
lol it'll probably be very weird to go to the market and buy "10 feet of pork loin" lol
walk out with a roll of meat.
Okay, but sillyness apart, if this technology makes it, there will be those people who will focus on profit alone and add plenty of chemicals the majority of us would avoid if aware of, and there will be the people who will have a more ethical attitude about it and believe this should be a technology to be used in the right way, for a better and easier future.
There will be probably "organic" and regular standards for this meat just like with other products nowadays. We, as consumers, will likely be given the choice.
Now if it turns out that the only way to achieve this is through the use of non-natural chemicals alone, then that in a way greatly defeats the entire purpose of the idea.
Photosynthetic skin would render all this useless. THAT is really what I dream of.
Comments
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
Ok, ignoring the pointless arguement...
Anyone else notice the whole "stem cell" thing? Ok, well, if they're using stem cells, then that's like turning an egg into a steak, right? Kinda gross...
I'd rather just become a vegetarian, but even that's not really an option so far out here in the boonies. Plus, I'm the only one in my household that would even consider this, and we're broke enough as is. Maybe if my father didn't drive 100 miles every other day to see his girlfriend... -.-
(That's about 100 miles total, not one way. Still a waste of money, though.)
Mmmmmm.. Like Spotted Owl or California Condor!
Just Kidding.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
But when this is perfected. Imagine some of the possibilities. Access to food for everyone, ofcourse this is most likely not going to happen
Take some stem cells, or myoblasts, which are the precursors to muscle cells.
Um... what?
Where did you read that? Actually the opposite is true. It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of meat. The average adult human burns about 2,000 calories per day, just living his or her life. We use almost all the calories that we consume to move around, breathe, and do everyday tasks. The same is true of farmed animals. For every pound of food that they are fed, only a fraction of the calories are returned in the form of edible flesh. The rest of those calories are burned away raising the animal to slaughter weight or contributing to feathers, blood, and other parts of the animal that are not eaten by humans. This is why animals raised for food have to eat as many as 16 pounds of grain to create just 1 pound of edible flesh.We can grow meat from stem cells if we learn how they work. No baby cow involved.
Of course these days with the extreme pollution that these factory farms produce they of course ruin the soil and yes that makes for less land for veggies.
But we can't eat cattle grain. How do you know that the land used for grain can be used for something humans can eat and how do you know that it'll be more nuterious than one pound of beef? I don't mean any offence, I'm just curious.
We can grow meat from stem cells if we learn how they work. No baby cow involved.
So the groups that think eating meat is wrong or to some unnatural wants either:
- Instead of eating a cow, eating the product the was grown from a chopped up unborn cow fetus (actual stem cells)
- Me to eat some unidentified, lab created test tube batter that doesn't naturally occur anywhere on Earth. (created stem cells)
Pass on both.
We can grow meat from stem cells if we learn how they work. No baby cow involved.
So the groups that think eating meat is wrong or to some unnatural wants either:
- Instead of eating a cow, eating the product the was grown from a chopped up unborn cow fetus (actual stem cells)
- Me to eat some unidentified, lab created test tube batter that doesn't naturally occur anywhere on Earth. (created stem cells)
Pass on both.
Heh, I didn't say it was appatising. I agree all the way.
I dunno... kinda grosses me out. I'd rather just eat an actual cow
.
We can grow meat from stem cells if we learn how they work. No baby cow involved.
So the groups that think eating meat is wrong or to some unnatural wants either:
- Instead of eating a cow, eating the product the was grown from a chopped up unborn cow fetus (actual stem cells)
- Me to eat some unidentified, lab created test tube batter that doesn't naturally occur anywhere on Earth. (created stem cells)
Pass on both.
okay, what is the problem about eating this meat? This is the same as the steak u might eat every night, or the burger (whcih is also chopped up cow, just not the fetus), or the chicken breast, etc. It's the same exact tissue. This is what they are aiming for
Instead of being attached to a skeletal strutcure, with veins and arteries bringing in nutrients and removing metabolic byproducts, and being stimulated by electrical neuronic discharges... it'll be on a tray.
It'll have a fluid that will carry oxigen and the other required nutrients in solution to the meat tissue. Minute electrical discharges will stimulate growth, much like the electrical discharges that make your muscles and any other animal's muscles contract. The waste rpoducts will probably come out the other end and be drained away, and the meat will grow.
Wither in vats, on trays, whatever, it's just be one large blob of meat. Instead of having a limited volume, like regular meat does (a particular cut can only be as large as the animals has it), you wil just have muscle tissue growing. You will have blocks of mean, 10-foot long steaks, etc, whatever.
What is the big shocker about this? It's food. it's just not growing behind a mouth, eyes, teeth, wings, feathers, whatever.
And what's the big deal with stem cells? "they would become a cow!" well, they won't. Just like the fertile eggs you eat for breakfast won't become chickens and no one makes a fuss about it. None of these species are threatned with exctinction, so the "it would become a _____" does not apply here.
If these were animals becoming nearly extinct by the day, then yes, u would have a point. So if you said "don't destroy the bengal tiger stem cell because there's not many tigers left around, and so not many potentially extractable stem cells, so every potential tiger-to-be counts, etc" you'd be right. But it's CHICKENS, COWS, PIGS, DUCKS, etc, none of them will disappear suddenly in the next forseeable future, so just get over it. Yes, it would become a living, breathing thing, but it won't, big deal.
This whole thing about stems cells just needs to die right now. It's a cell. It has a membrane, it has organelles, and it has a nucleus. There are no eyes. There is no brain, there are no hands, and most likely there are no complex thoughts whatsoever inside of it. It's a cell, like any other. Hundreds of cells die everyday in your body, and you're not crying about them. "huuu, huuu, huu,
-virtual tourist
want your game back?
It'd be sweet to have them grow muscles, then transplant them into your body... Or, like, wings! ...Oh, how I'd love wings... 'Cept the whole "can't lay on your back" thing... And the whole "They'd have to be like twnty feet across" thing... Unless, of course, they swapped out your entire skeleton, but that'd hurt like a bastard, and I don't think you could heal with the current technology...
Oh, but I think one of the stigmas with stem cells is that people accossiate them with aborted human fetuses. So when they hear "Stem cell meat," they think "Ew, people meat." I could be wrong, though. In fact, I probably am. I guess it's just 'cuz they never talk about getting stem cells from animals... Not that I think they should take away animals' babies, mind you. Maybe eggs, or something... I don't know...
First we take 12 ounce of your favorite testtube meat, stick in a vat to bring out it's rich, juicy artifically added nutrients, then electrically discarge it to mouth watering perfection. Topped with cheese on a sesame seed bun. Mmmmm mmmm.
I dont see anything wrong with that, especially if all the ingredients are natural and non-toxic (notice you said "artificially added ingredients", not "added artificial ingredients", which is a fundamentally big difference)
Bu tlet me add that I am not interested in steroid/hormone altered meat as well, that is not what I am looking for here.
-virtual tourist
want your game back?
First we take 12 ounce of your favorite factory farm meat, stick it in a crowded, fecal infested room for it's whole life, inject the crap out of it with all your favorite chemicals so we get even fatter chickens at record speed all for our profit, then we abuse them because we are superior, then kill them slowly because...well we don't know. Topped with cheese on a sesame seed bun. Mmmmm mmmm.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
walk out with a roll of meat.
Okay, but sillyness apart, if this technology makes it, there will be those people who will focus on profit alone and add plenty of chemicals the majority of us would avoid if aware of, and there will be the people who will have a more ethical attitude about it and believe this should be a technology to be used in the right way, for a better and easier future.
There will be probably "organic" and regular standards for this meat just like with other products nowadays. We, as consumers, will likely be given the choice.
Now if it turns out that the only way to achieve this is through the use of non-natural chemicals alone, then that in a way greatly defeats the entire purpose of the idea.
Photosynthetic skin would render all this useless. THAT is really what I dream of.
-virtual tourist
want your game back?