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A voice for LOTRO: PVP
xas_
Member Posts: 31
As i have been following this game through the last year, i have noticed about one-half of the population wants-
- to experience lots of quests
- raid places from the books
- roleplay friendly atmosphere
- Exploration
- Overall story driven PvE
In every MMO i have ever played ( which is nearly all of them) the questing system is ridiculous, dumbed down and just boring. example: Kill X, return X to Y or Deliver this letter to X. I dont care what the formula is
or what the developers promise the quests will never feel epic nor be fun. they always end up being repetitious and a grind-like experience usually the player has to force themselves to do it . Do you guys honestly have fun doing the same old stuff over and over? Most of us by now are MMO veterans and have experienced this gameplay before and need something new. Moving on to Raiding, what exactly do you guys think you will be able to raid without fucking up the lore of the story? i hate to break it to you guys, i know you want your " Story driven PvE experience" its to bad the story has already been told. it has an end, key events, everything has been revealed before our eyes so why do you feel we must do pointless quests which will have no benefit to the cause? that is unless the developers create the illusion as if you are which we all know wouldnt be true just a timesink. Christ 8/10 MMOs made are fantasy adventure with same races, classes,questing, raiding ect. the game has nothing unique about it rather then the highly admirable world tolkien created ect but that cant be credited for PvE only as to it benefits World PvP aswell.
The Voice must be Heard
MMOs have evolved. We need both PvE and Factionized-Team PvP. We dont want to be an elf and gank hobbits in the shire. Just Good vs Evil races all playable and seperated by location territory dispute. The greatest thing is people who dont like pvp dont have to participate, they can go grow vegitibles in the shire for all we care and not worry about geting ganked, but please guys dont say "we dont want any form of pvp" thats not fair to take away that content from us, this is the only MMO based on lotr and its bigger then you.
Many players feel we should get a true pvp system not a last second thrown in pvp option just so turbine can appeal to a broader audience. i mean common now "take control of an orc for a set ammount of time" give me a fucking break. If your going to add PvP and put it on your game features list, make real pvp, or just dont bother. A good example of a company who added PVP last second to catch a wider audience is WoW, those battlegrounds are so bland and repetive, you get bored with them after the 5-6th run. Now look 2 years later WoW finally is fixing World PvP after the whole community begd them to and now its to little to late theyre not even doing a good job on the world pvp. let this be a lesson to LOTRO devs. because u kno what its not like blizzard can just take out the crappy BG's they implemented...
PvP has everything PvE can offer but more excitement, skill based and competition as well as being immersive never ending End-Game content. its a reason to get better loot, its a reason to actually level to cap. And i dont want to hear about the false-lore of orcs not having free will because Turbine is bending the lore for PvE quite a bit? dont believe me... ok how about 100+ hobbits running around the shire at launch all adventuring and kill mobs when the whole race of hobbits are into peace and quiet, infact frodo and his hobbit posse as well as bilbo were frowned upon in the shire for thier strange ways. read the books. but since its for the PvE cause of course turbine will let it go, who knows maybe youll be able to raid and kill sauron... GG
this is middle earth the whole world thrived on PVP and alliances.
- to experience lots of quests
- raid places from the books
- roleplay friendly atmosphere
- Exploration
- Overall story driven PvE
In every MMO i have ever played ( which is nearly all of them) the questing system is ridiculous, dumbed down and just boring. example: Kill X, return X to Y or Deliver this letter to X. I dont care what the formula is
or what the developers promise the quests will never feel epic nor be fun. they always end up being repetitious and a grind-like experience usually the player has to force themselves to do it . Do you guys honestly have fun doing the same old stuff over and over? Most of us by now are MMO veterans and have experienced this gameplay before and need something new. Moving on to Raiding, what exactly do you guys think you will be able to raid without fucking up the lore of the story? i hate to break it to you guys, i know you want your " Story driven PvE experience" its to bad the story has already been told. it has an end, key events, everything has been revealed before our eyes so why do you feel we must do pointless quests which will have no benefit to the cause? that is unless the developers create the illusion as if you are which we all know wouldnt be true just a timesink. Christ 8/10 MMOs made are fantasy adventure with same races, classes,questing, raiding ect. the game has nothing unique about it rather then the highly admirable world tolkien created ect but that cant be credited for PvE only as to it benefits World PvP aswell.
The Voice must be Heard
MMOs have evolved. We need both PvE and Factionized-Team PvP. We dont want to be an elf and gank hobbits in the shire. Just Good vs Evil races all playable and seperated by location territory dispute. The greatest thing is people who dont like pvp dont have to participate, they can go grow vegitibles in the shire for all we care and not worry about geting ganked, but please guys dont say "we dont want any form of pvp" thats not fair to take away that content from us, this is the only MMO based on lotr and its bigger then you.
Many players feel we should get a true pvp system not a last second thrown in pvp option just so turbine can appeal to a broader audience. i mean common now "take control of an orc for a set ammount of time" give me a fucking break. If your going to add PvP and put it on your game features list, make real pvp, or just dont bother. A good example of a company who added PVP last second to catch a wider audience is WoW, those battlegrounds are so bland and repetive, you get bored with them after the 5-6th run. Now look 2 years later WoW finally is fixing World PvP after the whole community begd them to and now its to little to late theyre not even doing a good job on the world pvp. let this be a lesson to LOTRO devs. because u kno what its not like blizzard can just take out the crappy BG's they implemented...
PvP has everything PvE can offer but more excitement, skill based and competition as well as being immersive never ending End-Game content. its a reason to get better loot, its a reason to actually level to cap. And i dont want to hear about the false-lore of orcs not having free will because Turbine is bending the lore for PvE quite a bit? dont believe me... ok how about 100+ hobbits running around the shire at launch all adventuring and kill mobs when the whole race of hobbits are into peace and quiet, infact frodo and his hobbit posse as well as bilbo were frowned upon in the shire for thier strange ways. read the books. but since its for the PvE cause of course turbine will let it go, who knows maybe youll be able to raid and kill sauron... GG
this is middle earth the whole world thrived on PVP and alliances.
Comments
Well, there's gonna be some form of PvP, for they have a PvP forums in the officials. So you can PvP all you want. I'm going to do quests. Turbine is trying to avoid the "Kill X" quests.
wow, I thought I read all the books through Unfinished Tales. I guess I missed the part where PvP and PvE were discussed in the books.
Learn something new everyday.
PS - by the OPs logic, doesn't he make it so just about every game be it boardgame or otherwise - is bland rinse repeat gameplay? Monopoly, role dice move the car, role dice move the car - all in a circle over and over again. Seems pretty repetative to me.
Id love PvP in this game but The Lord Of The Rings story is about Good Vs Evil on a grand scale. The road that Turbine has gone done seems only suited to questing to defeat evil, I cant see how they can implement a PvP game worth playing with only good races to play.
The problem with licensed games like this (and Star Wars Galaxies) is that if you implememnt a worthwhile PvP system it has to be based on a 'zonal' control system - unfortunately when this comes to abiding by the 'rules' set by the original storyline it often upsets more people than it makes happy.
6 million subscriptions says it all..
One of the main reasons for World of Warcrafts huge success in the MMO industry is the ability to PVP. Heck its not even great pvp and certainly not all that balbanced but it is what the people want. Any MMO that comes out in the future regardless of the popularity of its IP must incorporate PVP if it wants to attract the kind of numbers that WOW has generated. Blizzard is the model for success in the MMO market period.
If this game is going to succeed it will require PVP to do it. Whether it be by having seperate servers or incorporating battlegrounds they will eventually be forced to implement it in some form or another. Gamers are no longer content to compete against computer generated mobs. There is no challenge and no satisfaction. This is why online gaming is so popular now. The huge success of xbox live is proof that gamers are competitive and are drawn to games that allow them to do so.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
6 million subscriptions says it all..
One of the main reasons for World of Warcrafts huge success in the MMO industry is the ability to PVP. Heck its not even great pvp and certainly not all that balbanced but it is what the people want. Any MMO that comes out in the future regardless of the popularity of its IP must incorporate PVP if it wants to attract the kind of numbers that WOW has generated. Blizzard is the model for success in the MMO market period.
If this game is going to succeed it will require PVP to do it. Whether it be by having seperate servers or incorporating battlegrounds they will eventually be forced to implement it in some form or another. Gamers are no longer content to compete against computer generated mobs. There is no challenge and no satisfaction. This is why online gaming is so popular now. The huge success of xbox live is proof that gamers are competitive and are drawn to games that allow them to do so.
Actually most of the players of WoW seem quite happy to compare belongings as a ompetition instead of PvP, also DnD online is currently doing very well, especially in the Nth American market, and that doesnt currently have PvP.
PvP is a must for some people (im one of them btw) but not the majority
so my question to you is why take that content away from players.
as of your PvP is boring to us part, us pvp fans feel the same way about your PvE .....
WoW has became World of Raidcraft and many fans are only playing it because its the best MMO on the market at this time and nothing else can compete intil warhammer / lotr/ vanguard start being released then i wouldnt be suprised if blizzard loses 30-50% of its population people are sick of the gear-or loot grind... people want a mix and unfortunately blizzard really messed up with thier PvP system as well as puting the boring battlegrounds in the game.... its going to cost them down the road.
That always works.
Classes should be balanced no matter what, pvp or in pve. If you disagree with me thier blame the Devs because if your character recieves a nerf, it either desperately deserved it or other classes should have been tweaked/buffed around it.
When i played EQ2 it was exclusively PVE, i found frustration with the "ranger" class which was 2x more powerfull then others in pve. real fair... intil the class population gets to a point of ridiculousness. but since thier is no competition thier is no reason to nerf it?
i just love how people keep attacking my PvP points of view, but ignore all the good PvE points i have made.
guess thats another example of pick and choosing though eh...
Pity you didn't actually read what I said instead of just looking at the words.
Lets see if I can rephrase it in a much simpler way for others to understand.
Yes, classes require nerfing sometimes. However, there's no reason why my PvE class that has a special ability to use in it's skills, something that it does well. Something like say... a defensive spell that lasts 50 seconds and allows me to survive hits from monsters that I couldn't face otherwise because I would die immediately. There's no reason that spell should be taken down to last only 20 seconds with a longer recharge time making it impossible for me to survive those situations just so that YOUR PvP character, something I never take part in or look at in any way, can kill my class faster in your precious PvP.
Make more sense now? Everybody PvE's, only some PvP, so why should a class that I'm playing have to suffer for the minorities sake?
I understood your post fine, i just find it to be rather selfish.
you under estimate how many people enjoy casual pvp. i mean its pointless to even debate issues with you pve fanatics you always only see things you want to see anyway. then trash pvp on how it will ruin ur game...
Variety... added to hundreds of thousands of players your mad because you can only dodge 75% of all incoming attacks for 20 seconds instead of 60.
PvP will be in this game and you cant stop it. They just better not add the half-fast shit WoW did and if they do it still makes me happy cause it will piss people like you off.
Not entirely. People love WoW because it's simple. Everquest 1 (and possibly 2, don't know much about it) is the ultimate game for epic raids, but it's so time consuming, tedius, and, well ... difficult. WoW is Raids-Made-Easy. Anybody can get a toon to level 60 without breaking a sweat, and once you get even slightly organized you can do a lot of the lower end instances (MC, ZG, AQ20). Even the really difficult instances are pretty simple once you get the jist of things. I don't think that WoW is the best MMO on the market in any respect, it's just the easiest. As for Battleground PvP, it's the same thing ... no skill (well, a minimal amount) is involved in playing in Battlegrounds, the game is entirely gear dependent.
WoW will not be respected as a good PvP game for a long time simply because Joe Hunter in Naraxx that just knows how to click autoshot and do what he's told can totally wreck an organized group that's just PvP'd. When a one-handed weapon does as much damage as the best two-handed weapon a PvPer has access to, might as well just roll over and die.
In conclusion, while I do agree that a lot of people will flock to Warhammer, Vanguard, LotR, I do not agree that they will stay. None of these games offers the ease that WoW does. The hardest part in WoW is putting up with your guild of 40+.
WoW is definately the easiest, and most Quest based MMORPG anyone will every see. you dont have to grind at all thier is always a quest to do and that is a good thing. but the point of ease is underplayed by how "dumbed" down it is. They made every class be able to solo perfectly by giving all classes including healers an option to spec into DPS mode which is my biggest complaint. Im a firm believer of specific class roles. but the worst thing in WOW is how the game revolved around Gear-Grinding, and your right it was not skill based. Anyone with a decent guild raids up to the current best zone, raid 2-3 times a week for a few months intil you have a full set. PVP is so gear dependant in WoW it makes me Cry. Everyone looks the same too...
WoW is the best overall game on the market when it comes to variety, i would have said Dark age of Camelot by a long shot but its just to old.
Someone please educate me on when PVP was put into WOW. I don't seem to recall it being there on release. Perhaps I am mistaken. Somehow I think WOW achieved market dominance based on their PVE experience which catered to both solo and group quests and a leveling system that was not too harsh.
Please correct me if this was just a niche game until PVP was added. I would love to learn.
WoW PvP was implemented late beta, i was a tester and experienced all of the stupid dev decisions.
like when warriors could charge in combat or mages invisibility ... rogue chain stuns with no diminishing returns... ect ect. this is because WoW was based on a Cookie-Cutter concept, hence why alot of workers left blizzard to make Guild Wars. But anyways PvP was added late beta to appeal to a brauder audience to sell more copies and that is why it is so horrible (pvp), and unbalanced. although i must admit the balance isnt halfway bad as before.
The dev team really had no clue or experience on how to make an effective PvP game...
this is also a good example of my arguement on LOTRO pvp, as they just announced the game will contain it. i dont want them to pull a half-fast last second addition with pvp just to attempt to sell more copies by appealing to a "broader audience". i want them to do a good job and not rush anything even if that means waiting after launch for a PvP system ect.
But I do enjoy Voluntary PvP content from time to time, it breaks up the tedium of grinding/questing/crafting/etc.
Concepts like WoW's Battle Grounds (with the 3 types of games) and FFXI's Ballista and Brenner (although I never did try the latter) can make for a lot of fun, and can creat a nice competitive atmosphere.
the thing i hate most is when you say PvP, you get all these people immediately thinking omg no i dont want elves ganking hobbits all day in the shire... and thats not the case at all with the majority of PvP fans.
we just want the option to PvP as a team, because thats what we like... instead of a group of players coming together to raid a NPC boss, we like to gather and verse another group of players. Tactics, skill, position and teamwork come into play, and i feel it does more with PvP than PvE.
I think because of games like EQ and to an extent, WoW, PvP gets a bad rep, but implemented correctly it can be a lot of fun.
I'm agreeing with #1. When I heard that PVP is (well lets be honest) non existing in this game and that every player is going to play alongside eachother it really lowered the hype for this game in my eyes. Why the heck shouldn't people be able to play as orcs ? I mean, what's the point of investing time in this game and reach the levelcap if there is nothing for you to do? I would love to invade mordor and stuff like that but no,. we are suppose to play alongside eachother all the time, no exitement what so ever. And this game it really looks like it's being rushed, I've read that it's going to be based on the first book and it's locations and happenings, what's up with that? Will they make two expansions for the other two books? Why don't make a massive game that people perhaps can endure, but no.. I don't really now what they were thinking when they decided this. PVP is a must have in a MMORPG game, with the raiding and the prestige and that you have an acctual purpose to play this game. Damn it, who want's to spend a year knocking over the same NPCs to get the best EQ just so that you can knock over those NPCs a little bit faster next time, it's seems really dead-ended to me and I'm bored and haven't even played it yet.
From the information I have right now, it would take a miracle to make me to change my mind, so, bring on the beta and show me what's up. Though right now this won't entertain me for long..