Its at least a good step in the right direction at least for me but still its a raid /sigh, wich means u still need a big guild, DKP and you have to be there at set times (no Iam not casual, I made 2 times Rank14).
I wish they would keep raids just for world bosses (who arent dropping any better than bosses in instances just different items) and put just 5-10 man instances in the game. 5 man -> blue, 10 man -> epic items. Sure the 10 mans shouldnt be so easy like sholo / strath & co, no they should be twice or 3 times as hard, in addition the bosses maybe shouldnt always drop the epic set items you are lookin for, sometimes also blue items so it needs a bit of time to get these or so (just an idea).
I just dont like the fact that I NEEED a big guild otherwise i dont get anywhere in the game, if I want to join a guild fine but if i dont want then i dont want to be forced to. Man it would be just a whole different quality if I just could play instances with friends and ppls I know, ALOT MORE FUN.
This was my 1st MMORPG and I just learned I never will buy me again a MMORPG which endgame is just raid ....its BS, no FUN, it FORCES you to be in a big guild etc etc bla bla ...
Sure you ask then what to do then ? Well put a whole new continent into the game and make it REAL CONTESTED with pvp vehicles and all stuff, player housing, player ships and whatnot. Blizzards brain is a bit limited or they just dont want to spend money on new things ...
Originally posted by Fenrir767 Originally posted by fireblazerx Originally posted by Fenrir767 40 man raids were going to kill the game that is the reason why they changed it to 25 man raids. It is so much better because it opens the content to so many more people then it did befoe may small guilds sat around 20-30 members and couldn't progress now with a little selective recruiting they can in the Burning Crusade this was one of the best decision blizzard made especially with regards to keeping WoW alive and flourishing
40-man raids have killed small guilds. That is true. But not guilds that raid often and recruit often. Taking out the 40-man limit is ridiculous. My point is that adding a 25-limit to different instances instead of removing the 40-man limit and putting in this one would be better. This way, those "small guilds" out there can stay small. The big guilds can stay big in the 40-man raid instances.
WoW right now may have a high subscription rate but when less thatn 50% of the population has not experienced the endgame content you have a problem. Small Guilds have died because they can't compete in PvP or in PvE due to raid gear. People have quit the game never to come back etc. They are a problem in the game and with the average guild siaze in WoW probably around 30 people cutting down on the amount of people needed is going to allow small guilds to raid and not progress as fast as the bigger more dedicated raiding but at least experience the content. Adding the 25 man limit to different instance would not have solved the problem because may raiders would complain (it takes 40 people yet the gear is the same as the 25 man instance) The game is so gear based and with still being popular but not as much as it once was in America with every lost subscriber being replaced by many more something has to be done to keep more people playing especially with all the forthcoming competition.
So what you are saying is let the small, non-dedicated guilds raid 25-man instances and get the same quality gear as the large, dedicated guild that raid 40-man instances?
If you are to change the 40 cap to 25, then what would happen to the big guilds? Destroyed? Would everyone have to only have small guilds?
Example: Zul'Gurub a 20-man instance has nice loot but not as good as MC, BWL, AQ40, etc. Are you expecting that ZG loot to be just as good as 40-man instaqnce loot, which requires more people to participate?
Especially in this, if you are to change the cap to 25, the invitation system would be very flawed. Only the best of the best could get into such raids.
In conclusion, ADDING instances with a 25-man cap with loot almost as good as a 40-man instance and just as hard as a 40-man instance is good.
Originally posted by fireblazerx Originally posted by Fenrir767 Originally posted by fireblazerx Originally posted by Fenrir767 40 man raids were going to kill the game that is the reason why they changed it to 25 man raids. It is so much better because it opens the content to so many more people then it did befoe may small guilds sat around 20-30 members and couldn't progress now with a little selective recruiting they can in the Burning Crusade this was one of the best decision blizzard made especially with regards to keeping WoW alive and flourishing
40-man raids have killed small guilds. That is true. But not guilds that raid often and recruit often. Taking out the 40-man limit is ridiculous. My point is that adding a 25-limit to different instances instead of removing the 40-man limit and putting in this one would be better. This way, those "small guilds" out there can stay small. The big guilds can stay big in the 40-man raid instances.
WoW right now may have a high subscription rate but when less thatn 50% of the population has not experienced the endgame content you have a problem. Small Guilds have died because they can't compete in PvP or in PvE due to raid gear. People have quit the game never to come back etc. They are a problem in the game and with the average guild siaze in WoW probably around 30 people cutting down on the amount of people needed is going to allow small guilds to raid and not progress as fast as the bigger more dedicated raiding but at least experience the content. Adding the 25 man limit to different instance would not have solved the problem because may raiders would complain (it takes 40 people yet the gear is the same as the 25 man instance) The game is so gear based and with still being popular but not as much as it once was in America with every lost subscriber being replaced by many more something has to be done to keep more people playing especially with all the forthcoming competition.
So what you are saying is let the small, non-dedicated guilds raid 25-man instances and get the same quality gear as the large, dedicated guild that raid 40-man instances?
If you are to change the 40 cap to 25, then what would happen to the big guilds? Destroyed? Would everyone have to only have small guilds?
Example: Zul'Gurub a 20-man instance has nice loot but not as good as MC, BWL, AQ40, etc. Are you expecting that ZG loot to be just as good as 40-man instaqnce loot, which requires more people to participate?
Especially in this, if you are to change the cap to 25, the invitation system would be very flawed. Only the best of the best could get into such raids.
In conclusion, ADDING instances with a 25-man cap with loot almost as good as a 40-man instance and just as hard as a 40-man instance is good.
Frankly I don't give a rats ass about the big guilds that make up less than 5% of the total WoW population. WoW is a gear based game and raid gear is breaking other elements of the game. PvP is a big part of the game and people in raid gear just own everybody. If people truly like to raid then they shouldn:t care about people getting equal or similar quality loot through other methods. Frankly I think they should be equal level since the game designed is gear owns skill if they change the mechanics of the game so skill owns gear then it would be a whole other story. Also who says that a 25 man encounter can:t be as hard as a 40 man encounter it can be way harder. Dedication to a game shouldn't break the game for everyone else.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 Originally posted by fireblazerx Originally posted by Fenrir767 Originally posted by fireblazerx Originally posted by Fenrir767 40 man raids were going to kill the game that is the reason why they changed it to 25 man raids. It is so much better because it opens the content to so many more people then it did befoe may small guilds sat around 20-30 members and couldn't progress now with a little selective recruiting they can in the Burning Crusade this was one of the best decision blizzard made especially with regards to keeping WoW alive and flourishing
40-man raids have killed small guilds. That is true. But not guilds that raid often and recruit often. Taking out the 40-man limit is ridiculous. My point is that adding a 25-limit to different instances instead of removing the 40-man limit and putting in this one would be better. This way, those "small guilds" out there can stay small. The big guilds can stay big in the 40-man raid instances.
WoW right now may have a high subscription rate but when less thatn 50% of the population has not experienced the endgame content you have a problem. Small Guilds have died because they can't compete in PvP or in PvE due to raid gear. People have quit the game never to come back etc. They are a problem in the game and with the average guild siaze in WoW probably around 30 people cutting down on the amount of people needed is going to allow small guilds to raid and not progress as fast as the bigger more dedicated raiding but at least experience the content. Adding the 25 man limit to different instance would not have solved the problem because may raiders would complain (it takes 40 people yet the gear is the same as the 25 man instance) The game is so gear based and with still being popular but not as much as it once was in America with every lost subscriber being replaced by many more something has to be done to keep more people playing especially with all the forthcoming competition.
So what you are saying is let the small, non-dedicated guilds raid 25-man instances and get the same quality gear as the large, dedicated guild that raid 40-man instances?
If you are to change the 40 cap to 25, then what would happen to the big guilds? Destroyed? Would everyone have to only have small guilds?
Example: Zul'Gurub a 20-man instance has nice loot but not as good as MC, BWL, AQ40, etc. Are you expecting that ZG loot to be just as good as 40-man instaqnce loot, which requires more people to participate?
Especially in this, if you are to change the cap to 25, the invitation system would be very flawed. Only the best of the best could get into such raids.
In conclusion, ADDING instances with a 25-man cap with loot almost as good as a 40-man instance and just as hard as a 40-man instance is good.
Frankly I don't give a rats ass about the big guilds that make up less than 5% of the total WoW population. WoW is a gear based game and raid gear is breaking other elements of the game. PvP is a big part of the game and people in raid gear just own everybody. If people truly like to raid then they shouldn:t care about people getting equal or similar quality loot through other methods. Frankly I think they should be equal level since the game designed is gear owns skill if they change the mechanics of the game so skill owns gear then it would be a whole other story. Also who says that a 25 man encounter can:t be as hard as a 40 man encounter it can be way harder. Dedication to a game shouldn't break the game for everyone else.
If you had both 25 man instances and 40 man instances, everyone would be included.
If you had both 25 man instances and 40 man instances, everyone would be included.
they have 20/40 instances now and the 40 man ones dwarf the 20 man as far as gear. what this does is gives more people/guilds the opportunity to raid and enjoy ALL the endgame content.
i am in a big guild and i am confident we will adjust to these raid sizes, either by recruiting more players and having two separate raid teams (with certain players assigned to either team 1 or team 2) or stop recruiting all together and run the 25 man instances with your core raiders and run 10 man's with the rest.
also, for all we know...they could be revamping the existing raid zones with new loot and balancing it for lvl 70. they have already mentioned things like being able to set zones to "elite" and making it a higher lvl zone, will it apply to MC,bwl,naxx? that remains to be seen.
I was in a guild last year that had 2 40 man raid groups. We also did 3 ZG groups.
I think this allows for guilds to be more flexible with schedule. Most guilds have to have more than 40 people any way to cover people missing raids due to real life issues. Besides if there are 5 and 10 man dungeons, why can't people do those while some are doing the 25 mans? For the first month or so people will be working their way up to 70 anyway. There is a lot of content that will be added. From what I read tier 3 will still be some of the best gear in the game, so Naxx will still be viable for months.
As a note to those who are complaining about losing the 40-man, the loss is temporary. Blizzard has stated that they are considering adding a tiered system into the old instances, meaning that if enough players show support for the idea they will add it. I have a feeling they intend to in any case, but have not yet commited to the idea, and perhaps their mention was simply a trial.
40 man capp was good man... i was hoping they would increas it! 40 people to take down one boss is mad man... this is gonna be like "every raid is now zg/aq20"
Interesting results. I guess the peoples crying about this really are a minority. This move from Blizzard might well save the game from boredom a lot of players are feeling at the moment
still wonder how a game sold on been so "casual" could turn out to be one of the most time consuming games at 60.
I rather they try implement a system where casual can get gear which would be something like 10-15% worse then raid gear .
Atm the gear > all.Yes,all mmorpgs are gear oriented to keep raiders happy but truth be told wow went way too far with it.
However,i doubt they will do this because they seems to accept the old EQ way of thinking that raiders will outlast casuals in the time they will spent with this game.
They may even be right there but for me i have no time to keep to raiding 3-5 nights a week and kill off the rest of my life.
Originally posted by hercules However,i doubt they will do this because they seems to accept the old EQ way of thinking that raiders will outlast casuals in the time they will spent with this game.
It's circular logic; if you reward and make new content far more for one playstyle far more than others, then the players getting new content and more character advancement will be the ones who stick around the longest.
I think capping at 25 is a great idea. One of the main reasons I left the game was because I found the idea of running MC several times a week for six months so mind-numbingly repetitive I wanted to chew my foot off. And then the thought of other 40 man instances I'd have to run several times a week for six months after that...
I just wasn't going to pay a monthly fee to do the exact same thing several times a week for months on end.
I like the idea of the 25 cap. Make it easier to get raid groups together and started, make it not take quite so long to get people geared.
Comments
I wish they would keep raids just for world bosses (who arent dropping any better than bosses in instances just different items) and put just 5-10 man instances in the game. 5 man -> blue, 10 man -> epic items. Sure the 10 mans shouldnt be so easy like sholo / strath & co, no they should be twice or 3 times as hard, in addition the bosses maybe shouldnt always drop the epic set items you are lookin for, sometimes also blue items so it needs a bit of time to get these or so (just an idea).
I just dont like the fact that I NEEED a big guild otherwise i dont get anywhere in the game, if I want to join a guild fine but if i dont want then i dont want to be forced to. Man it would be just a whole different quality if I just could play instances with friends and ppls I know, ALOT MORE FUN.
This was my 1st MMORPG and I just learned I never will buy me again a MMORPG which endgame is just raid ....its BS, no FUN, it FORCES you to be in a big guild etc etc bla bla ...
Sure you ask then what to do then ? Well put a whole new continent into the game and make it REAL CONTESTED with pvp vehicles and all stuff, player housing, player ships and whatnot. Blizzards brain is a bit limited or they just dont want to spend money on new things ...
Sorry for my crappy english ^^
Taking out the 40-man limit is ridiculous.
My point is that adding a 25-limit to different instances instead of removing the 40-man limit and putting in this one would be better. This way, those "small guilds" out there can stay small. The big guilds can stay big in the 40-man raid instances.
WoW right now may have a high subscription rate but when less thatn 50% of the population has not experienced the endgame content you have a problem. Small Guilds have died because they can't compete in PvP or in PvE due to raid gear. People have quit the game never to come back etc. They are a problem in the game and with the average guild siaze in WoW probably around 30 people cutting down on the amount of people needed is going to allow small guilds to raid and not progress as fast as the bigger more dedicated raiding but at least experience the content. Adding the 25 man limit to different instance would not have solved the problem because may raiders would complain (it takes 40 people yet the gear is the same as the 25 man instance) The game is so gear based and with still being popular but not as much as it once was in America with every lost subscriber being replaced by many more something has to be done to keep more people playing especially with all the forthcoming competition.
So what you are saying is let the small, non-dedicated guilds raid 25-man instances and get the same quality gear as the large, dedicated guild that raid 40-man instances?
If you are to change the 40 cap to 25, then what would happen to the big guilds? Destroyed? Would everyone have to only have small guilds?
Example: Zul'Gurub a 20-man instance has nice loot but not as good as MC, BWL, AQ40, etc. Are you expecting that ZG loot to be just as good as 40-man instaqnce loot, which requires more people to participate?
Especially in this, if you are to change the cap to 25, the invitation system would be very flawed. Only the best of the best could get into such raids.
In conclusion, ADDING instances with a 25-man cap with loot almost as good as a 40-man instance and just as hard as a 40-man instance is good.
Taking out the 40-man limit is ridiculous.
My point is that adding a 25-limit to different instances instead of removing the 40-man limit and putting in this one would be better. This way, those "small guilds" out there can stay small. The big guilds can stay big in the 40-man raid instances.
WoW right now may have a high subscription rate but when less thatn 50% of the population has not experienced the endgame content you have a problem. Small Guilds have died because they can't compete in PvP or in PvE due to raid gear. People have quit the game never to come back etc. They are a problem in the game and with the average guild siaze in WoW probably around 30 people cutting down on the amount of people needed is going to allow small guilds to raid and not progress as fast as the bigger more dedicated raiding but at least experience the content. Adding the 25 man limit to different instance would not have solved the problem because may raiders would complain (it takes 40 people yet the gear is the same as the 25 man instance) The game is so gear based and with still being popular but not as much as it once was in America with every lost subscriber being replaced by many more something has to be done to keep more people playing especially with all the forthcoming competition.
So what you are saying is let the small, non-dedicated guilds raid 25-man instances and get the same quality gear as the large, dedicated guild that raid 40-man instances?
If you are to change the 40 cap to 25, then what would happen to the big guilds? Destroyed? Would everyone have to only have small guilds?
Example: Zul'Gurub a 20-man instance has nice loot but not as good as MC, BWL, AQ40, etc. Are you expecting that ZG loot to be just as good as 40-man instaqnce loot, which requires more people to participate?
Especially in this, if you are to change the cap to 25, the invitation system would be very flawed. Only the best of the best could get into such raids.
In conclusion, ADDING instances with a 25-man cap with loot almost as good as a 40-man instance and just as hard as a 40-man instance is good.
Frankly I don't give a rats ass about the big guilds that make up less than 5% of the total WoW population. WoW is a gear based game and raid gear is breaking other elements of the game. PvP is a big part of the game and people in raid gear just own everybody. If people truly like to raid then they shouldn:t care about people getting equal or similar quality loot through other methods. Frankly I think they should be equal level since the game designed is gear owns skill if they change the mechanics of the game so skill owns gear then it would be a whole other story. Also who says that a 25 man encounter can:t be as hard as a 40 man encounter it can be way harder. Dedication to a game shouldn't break the game for everyone else.
I raid, I like the new 25 players cap.
But I also liked the 40man raids and I will miss them a bit. Having both would be the best solution.
Taking out the 40-man limit is ridiculous.
My point is that adding a 25-limit to different instances instead of removing the 40-man limit and putting in this one would be better. This way, those "small guilds" out there can stay small. The big guilds can stay big in the 40-man raid instances.
WoW right now may have a high subscription rate but when less thatn 50% of the population has not experienced the endgame content you have a problem. Small Guilds have died because they can't compete in PvP or in PvE due to raid gear. People have quit the game never to come back etc. They are a problem in the game and with the average guild siaze in WoW probably around 30 people cutting down on the amount of people needed is going to allow small guilds to raid and not progress as fast as the bigger more dedicated raiding but at least experience the content. Adding the 25 man limit to different instance would not have solved the problem because may raiders would complain (it takes 40 people yet the gear is the same as the 25 man instance) The game is so gear based and with still being popular but not as much as it once was in America with every lost subscriber being replaced by many more something has to be done to keep more people playing especially with all the forthcoming competition.
So what you are saying is let the small, non-dedicated guilds raid 25-man instances and get the same quality gear as the large, dedicated guild that raid 40-man instances?
If you are to change the 40 cap to 25, then what would happen to the big guilds? Destroyed? Would everyone have to only have small guilds?
Example: Zul'Gurub a 20-man instance has nice loot but not as good as MC, BWL, AQ40, etc. Are you expecting that ZG loot to be just as good as 40-man instaqnce loot, which requires more people to participate?
Especially in this, if you are to change the cap to 25, the invitation system would be very flawed. Only the best of the best could get into such raids.
In conclusion, ADDING instances with a 25-man cap with loot almost as good as a 40-man instance and just as hard as a 40-man instance is good.
Frankly I don't give a rats ass about the big guilds that make up less than 5% of the total WoW population. WoW is a gear based game and raid gear is breaking other elements of the game. PvP is a big part of the game and people in raid gear just own everybody. If people truly like to raid then they shouldn:t care about people getting equal or similar quality loot through other methods. Frankly I think they should be equal level since the game designed is gear owns skill if they change the mechanics of the game so skill owns gear then it would be a whole other story. Also who says that a 25 man encounter can:t be as hard as a 40 man encounter it can be way harder. Dedication to a game shouldn't break the game for everyone else.
If you had both 25 man instances and 40 man instances, everyone would be included.
they have 20/40 instances now and the 40 man ones dwarf the 20 man as far as gear. what this does is gives more people/guilds the opportunity to raid and enjoy ALL the endgame content.
i am in a big guild and i am confident we will adjust to these raid sizes, either by recruiting more players and having two separate raid teams (with certain players assigned to either team 1 or team 2) or stop recruiting all together and run the 25 man instances with your core raiders and run 10 man's with the rest.
also, for all we know...they could be revamping the existing raid zones with new loot and balancing it for lvl 70. they have already mentioned things like being able to set zones to "elite" and making it a higher lvl zone, will it apply to MC,bwl,naxx? that remains to be seen.
I think this allows for guilds to be more flexible with schedule. Most guilds have to
have more than 40 people any way to cover people missing raids due to real life issues.
Besides if there are 5 and 10 man dungeons, why can't people do those while some are doing the 25 mans?
For the first month or so people will be working their way up to 70 anyway. There is a lot of content that
will be added. From what I read tier 3 will still be some of the best gear in the game, so Naxx will still be
viable for months.
I think this hurts casual players more.
Interesting results. I guess the peoples crying about this really are a minority. This move from Blizzard might well save the game from boredom a lot of players are feeling at the moment
still wonder how a game sold on been so "casual" could turn out to be one of the most time consuming games at 60.
I rather they try implement a system where casual can get gear which would be something like 10-15% worse then raid gear .
Atm the gear > all.Yes,all mmorpgs are gear oriented to keep raiders happy but truth be told wow went way too far with it.
However,i doubt they will do this because they seems to accept the old EQ way of thinking that raiders will outlast casuals in the time they will spent with this game.
They may even be right there but for me i have no time to keep to raiding 3-5 nights a week and kill off the rest of my life.
It's circular logic; if you reward and make new content far more for one playstyle far more than others, then the players getting new content and more character advancement will be the ones who stick around the longest.
ruat caelum
I think capping at 25 is a great idea. One of the main reasons I left the game was because I found the idea of running MC several times a week for six months so mind-numbingly repetitive I wanted to chew my foot off. And then the thought of other 40 man instances I'd have to run several times a week for six months after that...
I just wasn't going to pay a monthly fee to do the exact same thing several times a week for months on end.
I like the idea of the 25 cap. Make it easier to get raid groups together and started, make it not take quite so long to get people geared.