They should not be tortured unless they are thought to have been involved in terrorist activities that target civilians, and it is thought that information can be gained through torture that will save civilian lives.
Bank robbers terrify the people who are in the bank at the time. Muggers terrorize those they steal from. Should they be tortured? Howsabout drunk drivers?
There is no justification for torture. Those that torture are terrorists, those who support it are no better.
Sound harsh? Not as harsh as pulling off someone's fingernails to get bad intel.
They should not be tortured unless they are thought to have been involved in terrorist activities that target civilians, and it is thought that information can be gained through torture that will save civilian lives.
Since there isn't anyone I actually trust to "think", I'd prefer it if you didn't.
Having been arrested for terrorism once already, I would prefer it if morons were not given free reign to pull off my fingers.
Originally posted by abbaba They should not be tortured unless they are thought to have been involved in terrorist activities that target civilians, and it is thought that information can be gained through torture that will save civilian lives.
Bank robbers terrify the people who are in the bank at the time. Muggers terrorize those they steal from. Should they be tortured? Howsabout drunk drivers?
There is no justification for torture. Those that torture are terrorists, those who support it are no better.
Sound harsh? Not as harsh as pulling off someone's fingernails to get bad intel.
Muggers and bank robbers don't blow up airplanes or saw the heads off kidnapped journalists. Their intent is not to terrify, it is material gain. Your comparison is absurd. It's apples to oranges.
I think there is justification for the torture of terrorists..namely gaining information that will save innocent lives. Regarding the credibility of the information...I think that's up to the people involved with that case to decide. It may be worth it, even with the chance that you may get junk information. You may also get real information.
War Crimes, how ridiculous is that. The USA has never ever committed war crimes, how idiotic is this line of logic. This great nation, and might I add the greatest nation in the history of mankind ever, is prefect in every way, sure, I do concede that we have killed hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent civilians over the past 10 years, however it is important to note, that these so call innocent civilians were in the wrong place, they should have known better, it is not our fault that they get killed, they are after all the ones who do die, we don’t tell them to die, DUH.
I would also like to add that it is the enemies fault, and the reason why it is the enemies fault, that is very simple, they are the enemy, either way when we fly over and drop a bomb on a bunch of civilians, and or, go out and shoot a few dozen of them who are out shopping, that is not our fault, that is the enemies fault, you may wonder, how can that be the enemies fault, its very simple, because it is we are the USA, duh, do you not understand this.
It is evident that no one here has ever watched a Movie or a TV show, if you had you would evidently notice that we the USA never ever commit such crimes, a good source of information is JAG, or The Unit, or America Solider, another good movie is Navy Seals, you would see in that movie that one of our soldiers is equal to 79 of there’s and they can not shoot us either because they are not American, if you are American and you know this already, if not, rent some war movies about the USA, you wont find it hard to rent since they are all about USA anyways, which also goes to show how wonderful we are, after viewing these you will understand how the USA works, and how we Proud Americans think.
You see, everyone seems to forget how wonderful we Americans are, and evidently you all seem to be misinformed about the reality of the USA, if you want to know how the USA really is, you just go and rent some movies, or watch some TV shows such as the ones I provided for you all.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by abbaba
They should not be tortured unless they are thought to have been involved in terrorist activities that target civilians, and it is thought that information can be gained through torture that will save civilian lives.
Since there isn't anyone I actually trust to "think", I'd prefer it if you didn't.
Having been arrested for terrorism once already, I would prefer it if morons were not given free reign to pull off my fingers.
Terrorists are the least of my worries.
Of course there should be evidence. And you should not only be suspected of being a terrorist, there should be strong evidence that you yourself are involved with others in a terrorist plot. If you aren't a terrorist and you tell the truth so that the athorities can check out your story you should have nothing to worry about.
Then again, the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, so that pretty much rules out using torture in the US and on US citizens. Still leaves the door open for overseas though.
Of course there should be evidence. And you should not only be suspected of being a terrorist, there should be strong evidence that you yourself are involved with others in a terrorist plot. If you aren't a terrorist and you tell the truth so that the athorities can check out your story you should have nothing to worry about.
Then again, the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, so that pretty much rules out using torture in the US and on US citizens. Still leaves the door open for overseas though.
How about, if you and your authorities come anywhere near us, we nuke you. How's that for a suicide bomb?
I don't want any morons applying their idea's of justice to me, or the presumption of guilt from a foreign power. Let alone one backed up by torture.
I prefer terrorists to you. Confine your evil to your own country before someone has to help you to.
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by abbaba
Of course there should be evidence. And you should not only be suspected of being a terrorist, there should be strong evidence that you yourself are involved with others in a terrorist plot. If you aren't a terrorist and you tell the truth so that the athorities can check out your story you should have nothing to worry about.
Then again, the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, so that pretty much rules out using torture in the US and on US citizens. Still leaves the door open for overseas though.
How about, if you and your authorities come anywhere near us, we nuke you. How's that for a suicide bomb?
I don't want any morons applying their idea's of justice to me, or the presumption of guilt from a foreign power. Let alone one backed up by torture.
I prefer terrorists to you.
You say that until some terrorist blows up the plane, train, or bus you're on to make a political statement. He won't care of you're "guilty" or not.
I'm not saying the US should go into other countries and round people up, don't put words in my mouth. If you're from Pakistan you're the responsibility of the Pakistani government. But if we capture you in Iraq, Afghanistan, or the US with 20 pounds of TNT and the book So You Want to be a Terrorist? the game's up.
I'm not scared of people who blow up planes, trains and buses. I've lived with it for the last 36 years.
I'm scared of people with giant militaries who invade countries and kidnap, abduct and torture people. Who believe the life of a foreigner to be worth less than one of their own race. And I get violent when I am scared.
So if I see you first in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, I won't take the risk, I'll just start shooting.
Because if the choice is to become a terrorist or be like you, it's a no brainer.
Terrorists are NOT covered under the Geneva Convention .
In order to be covered they would have to meet ALL of its requirements.NOT just the ones their surporters choose to single out.If someone can point out even ONE reguirement they do fail to meet, they simple are not covered.
Now findiing such a requirement is easy.
"Such armed forces shall be subject to an internal disciplinary system which, inter alia, shall enforce compliance with the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict."
Theres one reguirement found in under 2 minutes that terrorists fail to meet.
Now that doesnt mean its okay to torture them.It simply means that they are NOT covered by the geneva conventions.
The problem is , as always, the laws are so out of date that they dont cover the modern issues explicitly.
Add in that the VAST majority of people are motivated in how they interpret a given law based on their own biases and its very easy to see why international law itself is flawed.Which shows beyond question in the failure of nations to settle on a simple definition of the simple term "terrorist"
Its one of the main reasons why the U.N. is the complete joke it is.
Despite our disagreements on the London protests... This time i'm 100% behind baff... Al Queda>US...
As for the snipe about "until they blow up the bus you're on"... Ok, I was not directly in any of the 7/7 bombings, however I had 2 friends injured and one friend dead in those bombings. Don't tell me my opinion will change when what I care about is on the line. (For the record, neither of my two friends hold anything more against those same terrorists as they do against the US).
EDIT: and lol baff, how did you end up arrested for terrorism??
Abbaba: Think if you were in the Iraqi militias feet- a country is invading, they are imposing their government, police, and culture on yours. Basically they are imperializing your country. They have killeded 30,000+ civilians of you're country. You don't like it to much so you decide to go take up arms against it. You are caught by the imperializing country and tortured for information that you don't have...because you are in the militia you are now a terrorist, not a soldier. Your family has probably died, your country is no longer your own, and now two sick bastards are beeting at your ankles with a medal rod....If you think this is justice, you are a sick fuck.
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people
Originally posted by cornoffcob Abbaba: Think if you were in the Iraqi militias feet- a country is invading, they are imposing their government, police, and culture on yours. Basically they are imperializing your country. They have killeded 30,000+ civilians of you're country.
BS. Iraq has their own government, police, and military. Many of the insurgents are foreign terrorists anyway. Torture done in Iraq, i.e. Abu Ghraib, was done without the knowledge or consent of the US command and those involved were/are being punished. (seven soldiers have been convicted in the Abu Ghraib case.)
If you prefer Saddam to the current elected government then you are the "sick fuck".
Originally posted by baff I'm not scared of people who blow up planes, trains and buses. I've lived with it for the last 36 years. I'm scared of people with giant militaries who invade countries and kidnap, abduct and torture people. Who believe the life of a foreigner to be worth less than one of their own race. And I get violent when I am scared. So if I see you first in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, I won't take the risk, I'll just start shooting. Because if the choice is to become a terrorist or be like you, it's a no brainer.
LOL, the real people come out in the forums. People like this and those in agreement arent against torture...they are against the US. They support terrorism and governments who kill there own people to stay in power.
Cant have a decent discussion with people like you or anyone likeminded.
Originally posted by abbaba Originally posted by cornoffcob Abbaba: Think if you were in the Iraqi militias feet- a country is invading, they are imposing their government, police, and culture on yours. Basically they are imperializing your country. They have killeded 30,000+ civilians of you're country. BS. Iraq has their own government, police, and military. Many of the insurgents are foreign terrorists anyway. Torture done in Iraq, i.e. Abu Ghraib, was done without the knowledge or consent of the US command and those involved were/are being punished. (seven soldiers have been convicted in the Abu Ghraib case.) If you prefer Saddam to the current elected government then you are the "sick fuck".
I'd prefer that our airforce would stop bombing civilians, i'd prefer that we didn't imperialize countries , i'd prefer not to torture, i'd prefer to call them a militia, and i'd prefer to say that our government has no right to invade another country for nothing but to imperialize.
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people
Originally posted by Dreneth Originally posted by abbaba It makes sense to me. These "prisoners of war" aren't Private Ali or Corporal Mohammed of the Iraqi army, they are terrorists who very well might know something about other terrorist attacks or plans. The Geneva convention protects soldiers of sovereign nation who wear uniforms and openly display their weapons. The insurgents in Iraq or terrorists anywhere else are none of these.
Ah, so as long as we don't call the opposition an "army", then we can torture them? We must not be at war then, we must be just be having fisticuffs with the insurgents.
BS.
We must not stoop to the level of those who would torture us. The protections in place from the Geneva Convention were established to PREVENT this sort of thing.
If someone supports torture... the supporter is a terrorist.
if torturing terrorists means saving lives of hundreds of thousands of lives, then do it. otherwise don't. yes we shouldn't stoop to their level but torturing isn't stooping if it means preventing another 9/11.
if torturing terrorists means saving lives of hundreds of thousands of lives, then do it. otherwise don't. yes we shouldn't stoop to their level but torturing isn't stooping if it means preventing another 9/11.
How do you know if it will or not until after you've done it?
You've lost your humanity. You are no longer one of us.
LOL, the real people come out in the forums. People like this and those in agreement arent against torture...they are against the US. They support terrorism and governments who kill there own people to stay in power. Cant have a decent discussion with people like you or anyone likeminded.
Societies that condone torture don't have a lot friends. Get over it.
You can't have a decent discussion with foreigners because you hate them enough to be able to justify torturing them. (Although you don't feel the same about Americans).
FYI your government kills it's own people (unlike mine) and has supported terrorism in my country (and around the world) for the last 200 years.
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by Bama1267
LOL, the real people come out in the forums. People like this and those in agreement arent against torture...they are against the US. They support terrorism and governments who kill there own people to stay in power. Cant have a decent discussion with people like you or anyone likeminded.
Societies that condone torture don't have a lot friends. Get over it.
You can't have a decent discussion with foreigners because you hate them enough to be able to justify torturing them. (Although you don't feel the same about Americans).
FYI your government kills it's own people (unlike mine) and has supported terrorism in my country (and around the world) for the last 200 years.
The US has supported terrorism for 200 years? Buddy, that's just plain nuts. Just nuts. The term "Guerilla War" originated with the French occupation of spain in the early 1800's...the Spanish didn't blow up any french civilians, either. Terrorism as we know it wasn't even around 200 years ago.
Originally posted by baff Terrorism as you know it. Your a bit new to it though aren't you. Not used to being on the recieving end. I'm from England.
The US has terrorized England for 200 years? Seriously, if you believe that, then it's impossible to have a serious discussion with you.
The Guerilla war is the foundation, really the first occurence, of an insurgency like the one in Iraq now. It wasn't really relavent to what you said, I agree. It only vaguely related to the "last 200 years" remark.
It's no secret. Or perhaps you thought there were M16 and Semtex factories in Ireland.
Last month congress refused to hand over IRA members as usual. Not really the mark of an unsupporting nation. Remember how you felt about the Taliban when they said the same thing about Al Quaeda.
You also supported terrorism in the Ukraine during the 50's, Afghanistan during the 80's and god knows how many other countries.
Originally posted by baff It's no secret. Or perhaps you thought there were M16 and Semtex factories in Ireland. You also supported terrorism in the Ukraine during the 50's, Afghanistan during the 80's and god knows how many other countries.
I do remember debating you about the US-UK relationship in WWII. But I can't believe that you seriously believe that the US "terrorized" England for 200 years. What did we do? Revolutionary War, War of 1812...Then what? Until WW1, which we helped England and France win, there wasn't much of a connection. I'm curious to see what evidence you have...what sort of crazy revisionist history you've been taught to make you think that the US has terrorized for 200 years by the US.
In the Late 70's and 80's the US supported native Afghani insurgents against Soviet invaders. The Soviets invaded in 1979 to support the communist government ( which was established by coup in 1978) against Afghan tribesmen. Yes, the US aided the Afghans against the Soviets. It made perfect sense at the time.
You funded and supported the IRA. Armed and trained them. Allowed them to raise sponsorhip and harbored them in your country. And yes this does include a revolutionary war, right after the First World War, it was sponsored by America and Germany. In Britain, "Republicans" are terrorists.
In 2003 Bush put them on the terrorist list, effectively putting an end to their fund raising in America, but as always still refuses to extradite any of them.
Bill Clinton is famous for attending IRA fund raising dinners every year of he was in office at $5,000 a pop.
Next time anybody really wants the Irish vote, the money will start to flow again.
Originally posted by abbaba It makes sense to me. These "prisoners of war" aren't Private Ali or Corporal Mohammed of the Iraqi army, they are terrorists who very well might know something about other terrorist attacks or plans. The Geneva convention protects soldiers of sovereign nation who wear uniforms and openly display their weapons. The insurgents in Iraq or terrorists anywhere else are none of these.
You have to realize that these people in Iraq have very limited weaponry, and very basic training. Compaired to U.S. soldiers, they are nothing. So, of course they are going to use unorthadox fighting methods to try to kill our soldiers. It is how we won our own revalutionary war. If these people were to walk around in a uniform showing their weapons they would be killed instantly by our men.
Oh, and just to clear this up, we are NOT fighting TERRORISTS in Iraq. We ARE fighting Iraqi FREEDOM FIGHTERS. They are SOLDIERS. You cannot fight and kill a terrorist. Terrorists are only defeated by spies and intelligence that can stop them before they attack. so, just stop calling them terrorists, because they aren't, atleast have the decency to call them soldiers, even though they are fighting and killing our men, and even though they are a part of wicked organizations. To call them terrorists dehumanizes them, and that is probably one of the reasons the dumbfuck we have as a president thinks it is okay to torture them.
Anyway, torturing is a horrible way to obtain information, as someone said before, they would say whatever they could just to stop the pain. And to torture them just lowers us to their level.
Oh, by the way, I support our troops, and their safe return home which they are being robbed of.
Comments
Bank robbers terrify the people who are in the bank at the time. Muggers terrorize those they steal from. Should they be tortured? Howsabout drunk drivers?
There is no justification for torture. Those that torture are terrorists, those who support it are no better.
Sound harsh? Not as harsh as pulling off someone's fingernails to get bad intel.
- - - -
Support Independent Game Developers
Since there isn't anyone I actually trust to "think", I'd prefer it if you didn't.
Having been arrested for terrorism once already, I would prefer it if morons were not given free reign to pull off my fingers.
Terrorists are the least of my worries.
Bank robbers terrify the people who are in the bank at the time. Muggers terrorize those they steal from. Should they be tortured? Howsabout drunk drivers?
There is no justification for torture. Those that torture are terrorists, those who support it are no better.
Sound harsh? Not as harsh as pulling off someone's fingernails to get bad intel.
Muggers and bank robbers don't blow up airplanes or saw the heads off kidnapped journalists. Their intent is not to terrify, it is material gain. Your comparison is absurd. It's apples to oranges.
I think there is justification for the torture of terrorists..namely gaining information that will save innocent lives. Regarding the credibility of the information...I think that's up to the people involved with that case to decide. It may be worth it, even with the chance that you may get junk information. You may also get real information.
War Crimes, how ridiculous is that. The USA has never ever committed war crimes, how idiotic is this line of logic. This great nation, and might I add the greatest nation in the history of mankind ever, is prefect in every way, sure, I do concede that we have killed hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent civilians over the past 10 years, however it is important to note, that these so call innocent civilians were in the wrong place, they should have known better, it is not our fault that they get killed, they are after all the ones who do die, we don’t tell them to die, DUH.
I would also like to add that it is the enemies fault, and the reason why it is the enemies fault, that is very simple, they are the enemy, either way when we fly over and drop a bomb on a bunch of civilians, and or, go out and shoot a few dozen of them who are out shopping, that is not our fault, that is the enemies fault, you may wonder, how can that be the enemies fault, its very simple, because it is we are the USA, duh, do you not understand this.
It is evident that no one here has ever watched a Movie or a TV show, if you had you would evidently notice that we the USA never ever commit such crimes, a good source of information is JAG, or The Unit, or America Solider, another good movie is Navy Seals, you would see in that movie that one of our soldiers is equal to 79 of there’s and they can not shoot us either because they are not American, if you are American and you know this already, if not, rent some war movies about the USA, you wont find it hard to rent since they are all about USA anyways, which also goes to show how wonderful we are, after viewing these you will understand how the USA works, and how we Proud Americans think.
You see, everyone seems to forget how wonderful we Americans are, and evidently you all seem to be misinformed about the reality of the USA, if you want to know how the USA really is, you just go and rent some movies, or watch some TV shows such as the ones I provided for you all.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Since there isn't anyone I actually trust to "think", I'd prefer it if you didn't.
Having been arrested for terrorism once already, I would prefer it if morons were not given free reign to pull off my fingers.
Terrorists are the least of my worries.
Of course there should be evidence. And you should not only be suspected of being a terrorist, there should be strong evidence that you yourself are involved with others in a terrorist plot. If you aren't a terrorist and you tell the truth so that the athorities can check out your story you should have nothing to worry about.
Then again, the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, so that pretty much rules out using torture in the US and on US citizens. Still leaves the door open for overseas though.
Of course there should be evidence. And you should not only be suspected of being a terrorist, there should be strong evidence that you yourself are involved with others in a terrorist plot. If you aren't a terrorist and you tell the truth so that the athorities can check out your story you should have nothing to worry about.
Then again, the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, so that pretty much rules out using torture in the US and on US citizens. Still leaves the door open for overseas though.
How about, if you and your authorities come anywhere near us, we nuke you. How's that for a suicide bomb?
I don't want any morons applying their idea's of justice to me, or the presumption of guilt from a foreign power. Let alone one backed up by torture.
I prefer terrorists to you. Confine your evil to your own country before someone has to help you to.
Of course there should be evidence. And you should not only be suspected of being a terrorist, there should be strong evidence that you yourself are involved with others in a terrorist plot. If you aren't a terrorist and you tell the truth so that the athorities can check out your story you should have nothing to worry about.
Then again, the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, so that pretty much rules out using torture in the US and on US citizens. Still leaves the door open for overseas though.
How about, if you and your authorities come anywhere near us, we nuke you. How's that for a suicide bomb?
I don't want any morons applying their idea's of justice to me, or the presumption of guilt from a foreign power. Let alone one backed up by torture.
I prefer terrorists to you.
You say that until some terrorist blows up the plane, train, or bus you're on to make a political statement. He won't care of you're "guilty" or not.
I'm not saying the US should go into other countries and round people up, don't put words in my mouth. If you're from Pakistan you're the responsibility of the Pakistani government. But if we capture you in Iraq, Afghanistan, or the US with 20 pounds of TNT and the book So You Want to be a Terrorist? the game's up.
I'm not scared of people who blow up planes, trains and buses. I've lived with it for the last 36 years.
I'm scared of people with giant militaries who invade countries and kidnap, abduct and torture people. Who believe the life of a foreigner to be worth less than one of their own race. And I get violent when I am scared.
So if I see you first in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, I won't take the risk, I'll just start shooting.
Because if the choice is to become a terrorist or be like you, it's a no brainer.
Terrorists are NOT covered under the Geneva Convention .
In order to be covered they would have to meet ALL of its requirements.NOT just the ones their surporters choose to single out.If someone can point out even ONE reguirement they do fail to meet, they simple are not covered.
Now findiing such a requirement is easy.
"Such armed forces shall be subject to an internal disciplinary system which, inter alia, shall enforce compliance with the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict."
Theres one reguirement found in under 2 minutes that terrorists fail to meet.
Now that doesnt mean its okay to torture them.It simply means that they are NOT covered by the geneva conventions.
The problem is , as always, the laws are so out of date that they dont cover the modern issues explicitly.
Add in that the VAST majority of people are motivated in how they interpret a given law based on their own biases and its very easy to see why international law itself is flawed.Which shows beyond question in the failure of nations to settle on a simple definition of the simple term "terrorist"
Its one of the main reasons why the U.N. is the complete joke it is.
Despite our disagreements on the London protests... This time i'm 100% behind baff... Al Queda>US...
As for the snipe about "until they blow up the bus you're on"... Ok, I was not directly in any of the 7/7 bombings, however I had 2 friends injured and one friend dead in those bombings. Don't tell me my opinion will change when what I care about is on the line. (For the record, neither of my two friends hold anything more against those same terrorists as they do against the US).
EDIT: and lol baff, how did you end up arrested for terrorism??
Abbaba: Think if you were in the Iraqi militias feet- a country is invading, they are imposing their government, police, and culture on yours. Basically they are imperializing your country. They have killeded 30,000+ civilians of you're country. You don't like it to much so you decide to go take up arms against it. You are caught by the imperializing country and tortured for information that you don't have...because you are in the militia you are now a terrorist, not a soldier. Your family has probably died, your country is no longer your own, and now two sick bastards are beeting at your ankles with a medal rod....If you think this is justice, you are a sick fuck.
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people
BS. Iraq has their own government, police, and military. Many of the insurgents are foreign terrorists anyway. Torture done in Iraq, i.e. Abu Ghraib, was done without the knowledge or consent of the US command and those involved were/are being punished. (seven soldiers have been convicted in the Abu Ghraib case.)
If you prefer Saddam to the current elected government then you are the "sick fuck".
I'd prefer that our airforce would stop bombing civilians, i'd prefer that we didn't imperialize countries , i'd prefer not to torture, i'd prefer to call them a militia, and i'd prefer to say that our government has no right to invade another country for nothing but to imperialize.
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people
Ah, so as long as we don't call the opposition an "army", then we can torture them? We must not be at war then, we must be just be having fisticuffs with the insurgents.
BS.
We must not stoop to the level of those who would torture us. The protections in place from the Geneva Convention were established to PREVENT this sort of thing.
If someone supports torture... the supporter is a terrorist.
if torturing terrorists means saving lives of hundreds of thousands of lives, then do it. otherwise don't. yes we shouldn't stoop to their level but torturing isn't stooping if it means preventing another 9/11.
Defiant
How do you know if it will or not until after you've done it?
You've lost your humanity. You are no longer one of us.
Societies that condone torture don't have a lot friends. Get over it.
You can't have a decent discussion with foreigners because you hate them enough to be able to justify torturing them. (Although you don't feel the same about Americans).
FYI your government kills it's own people (unlike mine) and has supported terrorism in my country (and around the world) for the last 200 years.
Societies that condone torture don't have a lot friends. Get over it.
You can't have a decent discussion with foreigners because you hate them enough to be able to justify torturing them. (Although you don't feel the same about Americans).
FYI your government kills it's own people (unlike mine) and has supported terrorism in my country (and around the world) for the last 200 years.
The US has supported terrorism for 200 years? Buddy, that's just plain nuts. Just nuts. The term "Guerilla War" originated with the French occupation of spain in the early 1800's...the Spanish didn't blow up any french civilians, either. Terrorism as we know it wasn't even around 200 years ago.
What country is your country?
Terrorism as you know it.
Your a bit new to it though aren't you. Not used to being on the recieving end.
I'm from England.
.
.
I don't think I mentioned the term "Guerilla war". I'm not sure I follow. Apologies if that comment was aimed at me.
The US has terrorized England for 200 years? Seriously, if you believe that, then it's impossible to have a serious discussion with you.
The Guerilla war is the foundation, really the first occurence, of an insurgency like the one in Iraq now. It wasn't really relavent to what you said, I agree. It only vaguely related to the "last 200 years" remark.
It's no secret. Or perhaps you thought there were M16 and Semtex factories in Ireland.
Last month congress refused to hand over IRA members as usual. Not really the mark of an unsupporting nation. Remember how you felt about the Taliban when they said the same thing about Al Quaeda.
You also supported terrorism in the Ukraine during the 50's, Afghanistan during the 80's and god knows how many other countries.
I do remember debating you about the US-UK relationship in WWII. But I can't believe that you seriously believe that the US "terrorized" England for 200 years. What did we do? Revolutionary War, War of 1812...Then what? Until WW1, which we helped England and France win, there wasn't much of a connection. I'm curious to see what evidence you have...what sort of crazy revisionist history you've been taught to make you think that the US has terrorized for 200 years by the US.
In the Late 70's and 80's the US supported native Afghani insurgents against Soviet invaders. The Soviets invaded in 1979 to support the communist government ( which was established by coup in 1978) against Afghan tribesmen. Yes, the US aided the Afghans against the Soviets. It made perfect sense at the time.
I'm not familiar with the Ukraine situation.
You funded and supported the IRA. Armed and trained them. Allowed them to raise sponsorhip and harbored them in your country. And yes this does include a revolutionary war, right after the First World War, it was sponsored by America and Germany. In Britain, "Republicans" are terrorists.
In 2003 Bush put them on the terrorist list, effectively putting an end to their fund raising in America, but as always still refuses to extradite any of them.
Bill Clinton is famous for attending IRA fund raising dinners every year of he was in office at $5,000 a pop.
Next time anybody really wants the Irish vote, the money will start to flow again.
Oh, and just to clear this up, we are NOT fighting TERRORISTS in Iraq. We ARE fighting Iraqi FREEDOM FIGHTERS. They are SOLDIERS. You cannot fight and kill a terrorist. Terrorists are only defeated by spies and intelligence that can stop them before they attack. so, just stop calling them terrorists, because they aren't, atleast have the decency to call them soldiers, even though they are fighting and killing our men, and even though they are a part of wicked organizations. To call them terrorists dehumanizes them, and that is probably one of the reasons the dumbfuck we have as a president thinks it is okay to torture them.
Anyway, torturing is a horrible way to obtain information, as someone said before, they would say whatever they could just to stop the pain. And to torture them just lowers us to their level.
Oh, by the way, I support our troops, and their safe return home which they are being robbed of.